589501 - Mistake in GUI re "Cancel" and "Delete" (for NNTP/News accounts)

Status: RESOLVED DUPLICATE of bug 250141

(Thunderbird :: Mail Window Front End, defect)

Description

[John H Meyers]

User-Agent:       Opera/9.80 (Windows NT 5.1; U; en) Presto/2.2.15 Version/10.10
Build Identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.11) Gecko/20100711 Thunderbird/3.0.6

Mistake in GUI re "Cancel" and "Delete" (for NNTP/News accounts)

First, let's define terms:

"Cancel" means to send a command to NNTP server,
to request post removal from all peer servers in Usenet.

"Delete" means to purge locally downloaded message info from user's profile.

The effect of "Cancel" is supposed to be only on remote server (and its peers).
The effect of "Delete" is supposed to be only on files within user's profile.

With a news message selected:

"Cancel message" is found in TB GUI at Edit > "Cancel Message"
and also in context (right-click) menu of an individual message.

"Delete" is found in GUI's "Delete" (big "X") tool button,
similar tool button within individual message window,
and keyboard's "DELete" key.

The mistake is that each of these two separate operations in GUI
invokes BOTH of the functions!

This is the only reason why users can not, in general,
delete messages already stored in their profile via the "Delete" tool button
(previously reported as bug 250141), because the GUI element
first attempts to do what only "Cancel" is supposed to do,
and thus generally immediately aborts,
while trying to perform the wrong function.

Selection of more than one message to purge from profile at one time
is likewise blocked, because the "Cancel" function, being invoked first,
also refuses to consider a multiple selection.

On the other hand, if the message which the user wants to purge from his own profile
is his own posting, the request is not blocked.  The message is deleted,
as actually requested, from the user's own profile, but unfortunately,
the GUI has also sent a "Cancel" message for the same message to the server,
which results in the message being canceled from all Usenet peer servers,
not just removed from the user's own profile on his own computer!

Similarly, the "Cancel" element in the GUI
first does exactly what it is supposed to do,
but then proceeds to also remove the message from the user's profile,
despite the fact that the server may ignore the "Cancel" request,
in which case the user has lost his downloaded copy of what remains on the server.

Previous Bug 250141 was mistakenly classified as an "Enhancement,"
when in fact it is just a simple (and easily corrected) logical mistake,
because, as we see from the fundamental meanings of "Cancel" and "Delete,"
each is supposed to act on _only_ the server or _only_ the local profile,
and neither operation is supposed to act on _both_ server _and_ profile!

Other similar well-known clients (e.g. Outlook Express, Windows [Live] Mail)
also perform both "Cancel" and "Delete" correctly,
with no "enhancement" needed, because they did not make the same mistake,
of trying to do _both at once_

That's why this is a new bug report -- not an enhancement,
but a correction of a mistake in the GUI.

This is not only a bug report, but also includes the solution:

The "Cancel" operation in the GUI should invoke
_only_ transmitting a "Cancel" message to the server.

The "Delete" operation in the GUI should invoke
_only_ removing the downloaded message info from the user's profile.

Everything is now completely corrected,
and prior bug 250141 may be retired as well.

Thank you!


Reproducible: Always

Steps to Reproduce:
1. Try to delete any message, only from storage within your local profile.
2. EVERY such attempt will do something incorrect! (see full details above)
3. (no need for any further step)
Actual Results:  
All actual results are already described within above "details"

Expected Results:  
All expected results are already described within above "details"

I think you will find it self-evident, upon reading the "details."

Comment 1

[Wayne Sallee]

But when I click cancel, it says that I can only cancel my own posts.


(In reply to comment #0)
> User-Agent:       Opera/9.80 (Windows NT 5.1; U; en) Presto/2.2.15
> Version/10.10
> Build Identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.11)
> Gecko/20100711 Thunderbird/3.0.6
> 
> Mistake in GUI re "Cancel" and "Delete" (for NNTP/News accounts)
> 
> First, let's define terms:
> 
> "Cancel" means to send a command to NNTP server,
> to request post removal from all peer servers in Usenet.
> 
> "Delete" means to purge locally downloaded message info from user's profile.
> 
> The effect of "Cancel" is supposed to be only on remote server (and its peers).
> The effect of "Delete" is supposed to be only on files within user's profile.
> 
> With a news message selected:
> 
> "Cancel message" is found in TB GUI at Edit > "Cancel Message"
> and also in context (right-click) menu of an individual message.
> 
> "Delete" is found in GUI's "Delete" (big "X") tool button,
> similar tool button within individual message window,
> and keyboard's "DELete" key.
> 
> The mistake is that each of these two separate operations in GUI
> invokes BOTH of the functions!
> 
> This is the only reason why users can not, in general,
> delete messages already stored in their profile via the "Delete" tool button
> (previously reported as bug 250141), because the GUI element
> first attempts to do what only "Cancel" is supposed to do,
> and thus generally immediately aborts,
> while trying to perform the wrong function.
> 
> Selection of more than one message to purge from profile at one time
> is likewise blocked, because the "Cancel" function, being invoked first,
> also refuses to consider a multiple selection.
> 
> On the other hand, if the message which the user wants to purge from his own
> profile
> is his own posting, the request is not blocked.  The message is deleted,
> as actually requested, from the user's own profile, but unfortunately,
> the GUI has also sent a "Cancel" message for the same message to the server,
> which results in the message being canceled from all Usenet peer servers,
> not just removed from the user's own profile on his own computer!
> 
> Similarly, the "Cancel" element in the GUI
> first does exactly what it is supposed to do,
> but then proceeds to also remove the message from the user's profile,
> despite the fact that the server may ignore the "Cancel" request,
> in which case the user has lost his downloaded copy of what remains on the
> server.
> 
> Previous Bug 250141 was mistakenly classified as an "Enhancement,"
> when in fact it is just a simple (and easily corrected) logical mistake,
> because, as we see from the fundamental meanings of "Cancel" and "Delete,"
> each is supposed to act on _only_ the server or _only_ the local profile,
> and neither operation is supposed to act on _both_ server _and_ profile!
> 
> Other similar well-known clients (e.g. Outlook Express, Windows [Live] Mail)
> also perform both "Cancel" and "Delete" correctly,
> with no "enhancement" needed, because they did not make the same mistake,
> of trying to do _both at once_
> 
> That's why this is a new bug report -- not an enhancement,
> but a correction of a mistake in the GUI.
> 
> This is not only a bug report, but also includes the solution:
> 
> The "Cancel" operation in the GUI should invoke
> _only_ transmitting a "Cancel" message to the server.
> 
> The "Delete" operation in the GUI should invoke
> _only_ removing the downloaded message info from the user's profile.
> 
> Everything is now completely corrected,
> and prior bug 250141 may be retired as well.
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> 
> Reproducible: Always
> 
> Steps to Reproduce:
> 1. Try to delete any message, only from storage within your local profile.
> 2. EVERY such attempt will do something incorrect! (see full details above)
> 3. (no need for any further step)
> Actual Results:  
> All actual results are already described within above "details"
> 
> Expected Results:  
> All expected results are already described within above "details"
> 
> I think you will find it self-evident, upon reading the "details."

Comment 2

[John David Galt]

Confirming.

Re. comment 1: You're not supposed to be able to cancel other people's posts (though you are supposed to be able to delete them).  Search on "GNKSA" if you need this explained.

Comment 3

[Timo Pietilä]

I think John H. Meyers uses a bit too many words to explain very simple matter. Lets make this a bit more easier to understand.

There should be "delete" command for news which does nothing to server that just plain deletes local copy of the message (spam, old messages etc.) and keeps the message count intact so that that message doesn't get redownloaded. Now there is no such thing.

Instead when you press delete TB tries to cancel message which is not what user tries to do.

This bug is about separation of cancel to delete -functions for news. In UI keep cancel in menus and make delete-key do just plain delete.

Comment 4

[Joshua Cranmer [:jcranmer]]

This seems to me to be entirely a duplicate of bug 250141.