Closed Bug 603952 (fx40-p12n-da) Opened 15 years ago Closed 14 years ago

[da] Firefox 4.0 productization review for Danish

Categories

(Mozilla Localizations :: da / Danish, defect)

Product:
Mozilla Localizations
Component:
da / Danish
Type:
defect
Priority:
Not set
Severity:
normal

Tracking

(Not tracked)

Status:
RESOLVED FIXED

People

(Reporter: stas, Assigned: sskroeder)

References

Details

(Keywords: productization, Whiteboard: [update l10n-src-verifcation])

Attachments

(3 files, 1 obsolete file)

Removal of Bloglines on 1.9.2 branch
1.38 KB, patch
sethb
: review+
Details | Diff | Splinter Review
New patch for central, taking the decision from comment #22
3.49 KB, patch
sethb
: review+
Details | Diff | Splinter Review
Removal of Hotmail/Live Mail mailto: handler from central
1.14 KB, patch
sethb
: review+
Details | Diff | Splinter Review
As you might have seen in the newsgroups or on the Mozilla blog, there's a couple of changes to search engines planned for the 4.0 release for en-US: <http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.dev.l10n/msg/81073d8d67e1c4c3>. We would like to use this opportunity to review the current productization setup for Danish and make any changes that you think will be good for our users. What is a productization review? ================================ Here's what we're interested in: * search engines, * protocol handlers, * feed readers, * live bookmark. You can see what your locale currently ships with at <http://hg.mozilla.org/l10n/l10n-src-verification/file/default/reference/browser/2.0/da> Please take a moment and review the choice of services available by default in your locale. If there have been any new services that have recently gained popularity and that offer good value for the users, please suggest adding them to your locale. On the other hand, if there are services that lost credibility (e.g. display too many adds) or have poor user experience, consider suggesting that we remove them. If in doubt, feel free to make a suggestion and we'll look at it together. You might find the guidelines at <https://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n:Productization> and <https://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n:Firefox/Productization> helpful, too. Required changes ================ There's two things I would like to draw your attention to (if applicable): 1) if you have a google.xml file in your `searchplugins` directory, please remove it, 2) Bloglines is closing down on November 1st and we need to remove it from the feed reader options for all locales (see bug 595485). We suspect that it will make sense to move Google Reader up to the first position (if your locale has it). We will be offering technical help with this change, either in form of ready-made patches or a mass-landing by one of the l10n-drivers. If you don't think that moving Google Reader up is a good idea for your locale, please let us know! Changes in en-US and en-GB ========================== Here's the changes that we will be making in en-US and en-GB: * add Bing as the 3rd general search engine (see bug 603298), * remove Answers, * remove Creative Commons. We're making these changes in en-US and en-GB because we feel that they follow the recent market trends and user preferences in the US and the UK. We would like to go through the same thought process for your locale and see if any of these changes would make sense in Danish builds as well. If you decide that implementing these changes would be in your users' best interest then please go ahead and include them in the patch you'll attach to this bug. Implementation ============== Please make suggestions for changes and attach patches that Seth, Axel or I will review. Please note that since Bing provides a global plugin which does the locale detection itself, you will only need to add "bing" to your list.txt if you decide to include it. The XML file will be automatically pulled from en-US. Once a review is granted, you can land the patch on l10n-central if your locale actively maintains it. Otherwise, please wait for further instructions which will be put in the comments of this bug and announced in mozilla.dev.l10n (we're still unsure when the branching will happen). Please do not land any changes except for the required ones (google.xml, Bloglines) on 1.9.2. If you do not wish to make any changes, let us know, and we'll only work on removing Bloglines. Thanks!
For generic search engines the best data I could find is: http://www.afdeling18.dk/blog/2009/4/7/soegemaskineandele-i-danmark.aspx It is from the second half of 2008, and it links to other data from spring 2009. I couldn't find any newer info So definitely Google is number one. If any other generic search engine should be there, it should be Bing. Yahoo should not be on the list. For e-Commerce search I cannot find any data. Several e-Commerce sites has appeared during the last year, and advertised heavily, so I would guess the market has changed allot. But I don't know who is the biggest and if they have a good service. Regarding the current list of eBay and Amazon taken from en-US, I have never heard of anybody buying something from eBay. Amazon however is quite popular. For specific interest search we currently have answers, cc and wikipedia-da. My best guess is that nobody uses answers and cc. wikipedia-da may have some usage, but their quality is not good, and we might want to consider using wikipedia-en instead, even through the content is not in Danish. For mailto protocol handlers I think Gmail and Hotmail should be there, if possible. These two together with internet providers email are the most popular. Internet provider email is however more typically accessed through mail client applications (Outlook), so it is probably not worth adding their webmails. For the other protocol handlers / feed readers, I don't think these protocols are even used enough to make any decision about providers. We should follow en-US. If the live bookmark should be general news, then DR is still the first choice with TV2 a close second. No one else anywhere near these two.
(In reply to comment #1) > For generic search engines the best data I could find is: > http://www.afdeling18.dk/blog/2009/4/7/soegemaskineandele-i-danmark.aspx > It is from the second half of 2008, and it links to other data from spring > 2009. I couldn't find any newer info Have you researched Alexa's website? Here is the information I found for Denmark: http://www.alexa.com/topsites/countries/DK > So definitely Google is number one. If any other generic search engine should > be there, it should be Bing. Yahoo should not be on the list. Can you prepare a patch that removed Yahoo and adds Bing? > > For e-Commerce search I cannot find any data. Several e-Commerce sites has > appeared during the last year, and advertised heavily, so I would guess the > market has changed allot. But I don't know who is the biggest and if they have > a good service. Regarding the current list of eBay and Amazon taken from en-US, > I have never heard of anybody buying something from eBay. Amazon however is > quite popular. In place of eBay, should you investigate "Den Blå Avis A/S" (dba.dk)? I only just found that site on Alexa. > For specific interest search we currently have answers, cc and wikipedia-da. My > best guess is that nobody uses answers and cc. wikipedia-da may have some > usage, but their quality is not good, and we might want to consider using > wikipedia-en instead, even through the content is not in Danish. The Wikipedia Danish version of the site still seems popular in Denmark, based on Alexa. Do you have any other research sources to validate your point here? > > For mailto protocol handlers I think Gmail and Hotmail should be there, if > possible. These two together with internet providers email are the most > popular. Internet provider email is however more typically accessed through > mail client applications (Outlook), so it is probably not worth adding their > webmails. Presently, it seems that you have Yahoo! Mail in the first position for your mail client. Rather than remove Yahoo, which seems to still have some popularity, can we consider adding a third mailto: protocol handler with Hotmail? If you do this, you will need add a new line to the default list of protocol handlers, making sure to incrementally increase the value mailto service by 1, like this: gecko.handlerService.schemes.mailto.2.name=Hotmail gecko.handlerService.schemes.mailto.2.uriTemplate=https://www.hotmail... > > For the other protocol handlers / feed readers, I don't think these protocols > are even used enough to make any decision about providers. We should follow > en-US. OK. Thanks.
looking through alexa, I didn't find much interesting. I also couldn't find out exactly what they are measuring. Dba could be a good candidate to add. Looking through http://e-maerket.dk I found http://billetnet.dk as an interesting candidate. > The Wikipedia Danish version of the site still seems popular in Denmark, based >on Alexa. Where on that site can you see which language version of Wikipedia is used? I do think Wikipedia-da is quite used. I only said that their quality is not that good, in my opinion. I have nothing against keeping Yahoo Mail. I was just thinking, if I should create the list without looking at an existing one, which would I add first.
(In reply to comment #3) > looking through alexa, I didn't find much interesting. I also couldn't find out > exactly what they are measuring. As far as I can tell, they measure site traffic. > Dba could be a good candidate to add. Looking through http://e-maerket.dk I > found http://billetnet.dk as an interesting candidate. > > > The Wikipedia Danish version of the site still seems popular in Denmark, based > >on Alexa. > > Where on that site can you see which language version of Wikipedia is used? I > do think Wikipedia-da is quite used. I only said that their quality is not that > good, in my opinion. Totally reasonable assessment. I found country and site information here, but it is hard to say without doing very rough math. For instance, the figures show that 0,1% of the internet population visits the Danish Wikipedia. What is that number? 100000 people? > > I have nothing against keeping Yahoo Mail. I was just thinking, if I should > create the list without looking at an existing one, which would I add first. Want to add Hotmail then?
There are some fairly good quality statistics at http://fdim.dk/statistik unfortunately they only list Danish sites, and not international sites used by Danish users. I think my suggestion would then be: search engines: remove yahoo add bing remove ebay add dba remove answers remove cc mailto: add hotmail other protocols and feeds: make sure they follow en-US live bookmark: unchanged
OK. Sounds good. To begin, can you prepare a patch for the 1.9.2 branch that removes bloglines? Then, if you are actively maintaining your strings for l10n-central, can you prepare another patch that makes the above changes? If you are not maintaining l10n-central right now, you can wait on that patch, but we will need to make the changes in comment 5 for Firefox 4. I'll review both when ready.
Lets give everybody on the team their time to say what they have to say. Jørgen suggested adding http://www.denstoredanske.dk/ as a replacement for answers.
* search engines I concur with Jesper and Jørgen - REMOVE: yahoo-dk, answers, creative commons and eBay - ADD: bing (Search), Den store Danske (Reference) and DBA (Commerce) This will change the list to: -- Search: * Google * bing -- Reference: * Wikipedia (Danish) * Den store danske encyklopædi -- Commerce * Amazon.co.uk * Den blå avis * protocol handlers - ADD: Hotmail * feed readers I support the inclusion of Google Reader. Also - we have no local feed reading providers, so I guess we'll be following the default set of feed readers ;-) * live bookmark We have a long-standing agreement with DR, the national broadcasting association where they agree to providing us a general news feed, and I support continuing that setup.
Status: NEW → ASSIGNED
Assignee: nobody → sskroeder+bugzilla
For reference: this is also debated (in Danish) at: http://forum.mozilladanmark.dk/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7968
When your team is ready, please attach *two* patches: 1) Patch for 1.9.2 branch removing Bloglines 2) Patch for l10n-central making all the above changes. Thanks!
Attachment #501018 - Flags: review? → review?(sethb)
Attached patch Omnibus P12n patch for central (obsolete) — — Splinter Review
This patch covers: - Removal of Bloglines - Inclusion of Bing - Addition of Hotmail mailto: handler - Inclusion of 2 new search plugins -- [Commerce] Den Blå Avis (dba.dk) -- [Reference] Den Store Danske Encyklopædi (denstoredanske.dk) - Removal of answers, creativecommons, eBay and Yahoo.dk from searchplugins
Attachment #501187 - Flags: review?
Attachment #501187 - Flags: review? → review?(sethb)
Comment on attachment 501018 [details] [diff] [review] Removal of Bloglines on 1.9.2 branch Thank you for the patch. Looks good so please check in to the 1.9.2 repository, adding a comment to the checkin that references bug 603952, the Bloglines change and r=sethb. After you've landed and tested, please sign off so your build is picked up in the next minor release. Don't forget to sign off! :-) Happy New Year.
Attachment #501018 - Flags: review?(sethb) → review+
Comment on attachment 501187 [details] [diff] [review] Omnibus P12n patch for central This looks good to me and as far as I can tell, it can be checked in. But, before we do that, can you provide just a few comments about Den Blaa Avis and Den Store Danske? I'd like to learn a bit more about the rationale behind the change. No real blocker here, just curious and probably good documentation for us to describe why we are making the decision. Thanks!
Whiteboard: [update l10n-src-verifcation]
Hi Guys, any update here? We are approaching a release candidate sometime in the next few weeks. It would be good to land changes, test them, and sign off and then close this bug while we still have one or two betas left to test.
Ping. Guys?
I assume Søren will get at is when he gets time, just as I assume he will get at the bugs filed at http://wiki.mozilladanmark.dk/wiki/L10n:Firefox By the way, it seems you did not formally put the review on the patch.
(In reply to comment #17) > I assume Søren will get at is when he gets time, just as I assume he will get > at the bugs filed at http://wiki.mozilladanmark.dk/wiki/L10n:Firefox > > By the way, it seems you did not formally put the review on the patch. Actually, I added my review as a "comment" to the patch, without providing an r- or r+. I asked in that comment the following question: "Can you provide just a few comments about Den Blaa Avis and Den Store Danske? I'd like to learn a bit more about the rationale behind the change."
Also, have you guys contacted Den Blaa Avis and Den Store Danske to confirm that it is OK to ship them in Firefox 4? We should get confirmation from them that they are OK doing this. One of you should send a quick email to their team mentioning that you intend to do this. You can share with them the XML file you created and invite them to add a param if they choose to help them track their traffic from Firefox. Please send me the email confirmations. Thanks guys!
ping
Hi guys. Just a short notice that I'm pretty swamped at work and therefore have been a bit absent these past weeks... With regards to the two new search plugins... We currently don't have a contact at either of these companies, and I don't believe I'll have the time to find those, and for them to get back to us with further enhancements to the search plugin... At least not in time for end-of-beta / RC. Therefore, I propose that the two search plugins be removed from the release, so that we can move to finalize this bug.
That is fine with me. I will then suggest that we keep eBay in, as Den Blå Avis was a replacement for eBay. I also suggest that we do not put any of the current providers as a replacement for Den Store Danske, and that we therefore skip with five engines.
Søren: Also please tell if you need help finishing up the Firefox 4 translations.
OK, guys, then just close this bug when you are ready. But, I would like us to continue with some of the ideas here. We can reopen when ready. Though we recommend against changes to the user interface, we can consider changing search plugins in some cases. This is all to say that the conversation is not over, but we do need to get ready for a release candidate.
New patch, taking comment #22 into account... - Bloglines removed - Bing added - Hotmail mailto: handler added - Answers, CreativeCommons and Yahoo.dk removed
Attachment #501187 - Attachment is obsolete: true
Attachment #513437 - Flags: review?(sethb)
Attachment #501187 - Flags: review?(sethb)
Comment on attachment 513437 [details] [diff] [review] New patch for central, taking the decision from comment #22 Looks good. Please land on l10n-central. After you have tested the change, please sign off. :) Thanks, Søren.
Attachment #513437 - Flags: review?(sethb) → review+
After sign-off, you can resolve this fixed.
I have a few questions on the hotmail change: - does the hotmail url pass the tests on http://people.mozilla.org/~ctalbert/ ? - can we make that an https url instead of http?
(In reply to comment #29) > I have a few questions on the hotmail change: > > - does the hotmail url pass the tests on http://people.mozilla.org/~ctalbert/ ? > - can we make that an https url instead of http? I've just pushed http://hg.mozilla.org/l10n-central/da/rev/6cd9a7696b17 which makes the url https and removed erroneous '+' chars in front of the hotmail specific mailto handlers... Because of the +, the hotmail handler was not added to the nightly build, and my RDF-fu is not strong enough to manually add it for test ;-D When the build is baked, I'll test it re: ctalberts test suite ....
We were unable to get the Hotmail / LiveMail mailto: handler to work and have therefore decided to remove it from the product
Attachment #516920 - Flags: review?
Attachment #516920 - Flags: review? → review?(sethb)
Comment on attachment 516920 [details] [diff] [review] Removal of Hotmail/Live Mail mailto: handler from central Please land on l10n-central. Add a comment to the checkin that references this bug, the change and r=sethb. Test, sign off, close. :)
Attachment #516920 - Flags: review?(sethb) → review+
Landed on l10n-central with revision http://hg.mozilla.org/l10n-central/da/rev/8f82db7cc4e5 Tested: the Hotmail mailto: is now no longer available, no side effects spotted Closing bug, resolving FIXED
Status: ASSIGNED → RESOLVED
Closed: 14 years ago
Resolution: --- → FIXED
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