603975 - (fx40-p12n-hu) [hu] Firefox 4.0 productization review for Hungarian

Status: RESOLVED FIXED

(Mozilla Localizations :: hu / Hungarian, defect)

Description

[Staś Małolepszy :stas]

As you might have seen in the newsgroups or on the Mozilla blog, there's a couple of changes to search engines planned for the 4.0 release for en-US: <http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.dev.l10n/msg/81073d8d67e1c4c3>. We would like to use this opportunity to review the current productization setup for Hungarian and make any changes that you think will be good for our users.

What is a productization review?
================================

Here's what we're interested in:
* search engines,
* protocol handlers,
* feed readers,
* live bookmark.
You can see what your locale currently ships with at <http://hg.mozilla.org/l10n/l10n-src-verification/file/default/reference/browser/2.0/hu>

Please take a moment and review the choice of services available by default in your locale. If there have been any new services that have recently gained popularity and that offer good value for the users, please suggest adding them to your locale. On the other hand, if there are services that lost credibility (e.g. display too many adds) or have poor user experience, consider suggesting that we remove them. If in doubt, feel free to make a suggestion and we'll look at it together. You might find the guidelines at <https://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n:Productization> and <https://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n:Firefox/Productization> helpful, too.

Required changes
================

There's two things I would like to draw your attention to (if applicable):

1) if you have a google.xml file in your `searchplugins` directory, please remove it,

2) Bloglines is closing down on November 1st and we need to remove it from the feed reader options for all locales (see bug 595485). We suspect that it will make sense to move Google Reader up to the first position (if your locale has it). We will be offering technical help with this change, either in form of ready-made patches or a mass-landing by one of the l10n-drivers. If you don't think that moving Google Reader up is a good idea for your locale, please let us know!

Changes in en-US and en-GB
==========================

Here's the changes that we will be making in en-US and en-GB:
* add Bing as the 3rd general search engine (see bug 603298),
* remove Answers,
* remove Creative Commons.

We're making these changes in en-US and en-GB because we feel that they follow the recent market trends and user preferences in the US and the UK. We would like to go through the same thought process for your locale and see if any of these changes would make sense in Hungarian builds as well. If you decide that implementing these changes would be in your users' best interest then please go ahead and include them in the patch you'll attach to this bug.


Implementation
==============

Please make suggestions for changes and attach patches that Seth, Axel or I will review. Please note that since Bing provides a global plugin which does the locale detection itself, you will only need to add "bing" to your list.txt if you decide to include it. The XML file will be automatically pulled from en-US.

Once a review is granted, you can land the patch on l10n-central if your locale actively maintains it. Otherwise, please wait for further instructions which will be put in the comments of this bug and announced in mozilla.dev.l10n (we're still unsure when the branching will happen). Please do not land any changes except for the required ones (google.xml, Bloglines) on 1.9.2.

If you do not wish to make any changes, let us know, and we'll only work on removing Bloglines.

Thanks!

Comment 1

[Andras Timar]

Plan as of 2010-11-03:

remove Creative Commons
don't add Bing
replace polymeta to bluu.hu 
replace ebay.co.uk to ebay.hu
leave alone the rest...

Comment 2

[Csaba Kozák [:WonderCsabo]]

Why don't we add Bing? :S

Comment 3

[Kalman Kemenczy]

Reason for Bluu:

The Bluu search service is a search engine based on the Hungarian language interpretation and under the entered keyword try to provide the best possible hit list. In our example, the various additional services with no syntax, but to use words in natural language.

How does it work? The Bluu users can use the system to search for timetables or dictionaries and for example to change currency. Questions related to natural language requests to the system as if another person would say. For example, if you want to know the value of 100HUF in EUR: "How many of HUF 100 EUR", "100 forint in euro", "HUF in EUR 100", the result is the same sentences.

Bluu search engine is continuously adapts to local needs, the relationship with our users is directly and We observe all of articles and blog posts written about us. 

The open web idea is very important for them, so they will soon be available the system's API system (but only for free applications) so that it indexes the Web, and everyone can have access to our web indexes as the user want.

Further information about the system functions can be found at http://www.bluu.hu/funkciok website.

Comment 4

[Kalman Kemenczy]

Reason for Bluu:

The Bluu search service is a search engine based on the Hungarian language interpretation and under the entered keyword try to provide the best possible hit list. In our example, the various additional services with no syntax, but to use words in natural language.

How does it work? The Bluu users can use the system to search for timetables or dictionaries and for example to change currency. Questions related to natural language requests to the system as if another person would say. For example, if you want to know the value of 100HUF in EUR: "How many of HUF 100 EUR", "100 forint in euro", "HUF in EUR 100", the result is the same sentences.

Bluu search engine is continuously adapts to local needs, the relationship with our users is directly and We observe all of articles and blog posts written about us. 

The open web idea is very important for them, so they will soon be available the system's API system (but only for free applications) so that it indexes the Web, and everyone can have access to our web indexes as the user want.

Further information about the system functions can be found at http://www.bluu.hu/funkciok website.

Comment 5

[Andras Timar]

(In reply to comment #2)
> Why don't we add Bing? :S

Bing is not localized into Hungarian, that's the main reason. Also, it does not give particularly good search results for Hungarian contents.

Comment 6

[Csaba Kozák [:WonderCsabo]]

Bing is localized, you just have to set the language.

http://www.bing.com/settings.aspx

Yeah, it does not give the best results for Hungarian contents, but it's usable. (Bluu is not much better IMHO) Considering the agreement on the share with MS, we should add Bing at least to the last default search engine.

Comment 7

[Kalman Kemenczy]

I have tried several HUngarian relaed search (even my name - what an ego!). Bing search results are far away from other if you looking for something Hungarian.


Please compare the following search results (set Bing to Hungarian and all languages for search result):

Budapest

* http://www.bing.com/search?q=budapest&go=&form=QBRE
* http://www.bluu.hu/kereses?kerdes=budapest&m=0&lakhely=Hol+vagy+most%3F&kep=......&tan=0
* http://www.google.hu/#hl=hu&safe=active&biw=1280&bih=833&q=budapest&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=eba593da3facea22


Kéménczy

* http://www.bing.com/search?q=k%C3%A9m%C3%A9nczy&go=&form=QBRE
* http://www.bluu.hu/kereses?kerdes=k%E9m%E9nczy&m=0&lakhely=Hol+vagy+most%3F&kep=......&tan=0
* http://www.google.hu/#hl=hu&source=hp&biw=1280&bih=833&q=k%C3%A9m%C3%A9nczy&aq=f&aqi=g2&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=af69b1bd043c34ef

intresting isn't it?

Bing is not optimized for the Hungarian content and unfortunatley does not care where I am and what kind of languag I use. I do agree this is promising search engine in English environment, that's why his search engine should part of the English version but not for the Hungarian.

Comment 8

[Csaba Kozák [:WonderCsabo]]

You are right.

Comment 9

[Seth Bindernagel]

Just a friendly reminder to attach patches for 1.9.2 and l10n-central when ready.

Comment 10

[Andras Timar]

Attachment: searchplugin patch for l10n-central

Comment 11

[Andras Timar]

Attachment: searchplugin patch for 1.9.2 branch

(same as the searchplugin patch for l10n-central)

Comment 12

[Seth Bindernagel]

Comment on attachment 492182 [details] [diff] [review]
searchplugin patch for 1.9.2 branch

None of these changes should land on 1.9.2.  Any search plugin changes (and any considerable changes to the UI like this patch will provide) should only land on upcoming major releases and not on stable branches.  The only time we really consider changing search plugins on stable branches if when a service goes out of business like Bloglines.

Comment 13

[Seth Bindernagel]

Comment on attachment 492181 [details] [diff] [review]
searchplugin patch for l10n-central

I am not sure I am comfortable putting a search plugin that is still in Beta into our official release.  I think we should choose from a set of services not in beta and allow the search service to promote a beta plugin from their online properties.  If the service grows, becomes stable, and shows that it is a good enhancement to the user experience, then I think we should add it.

I have added Stas to this to ask for his opinion.

Comment 14

[Andras Timar]

(In reply to comment #13)
> Comment on attachment 492181 [details] [diff] [review]
> searchplugin patch for l10n-central
> I am not sure I am comfortable putting a search plugin that is still in Beta
> into our official release.  

The word "Beta" should be understood as a buzzword taken from the Web 2.0 terminology. IMHO it does not mean low quality or unstable.

Comment 15

[Seth Bindernagel]

Comment on attachment 492181 [details] [diff] [review]
searchplugin patch for l10n-central

I am going to r- this because we need a special code for our eBay plugin due to the partnership Mozilla has with eBay.  Kev Needham will be attaching a plugin you can use.  When he does, can you add it to your patch and then I will go through and review everything?

One thing to note, you will want to get rid of the "\ No newline at end of file" through this patch.  You can do this by adding a newline with your code editor.

Comment 16

[Kev Needham [:kev]]

Attachment: Add eBay's Hungarian site to search plugins

Apologies for the delay in filing this, here's the search plugin parameters requested by eBay for use in hu. Please let me know if there are any questions.

Comment 17

[Kev Needham [:kev]]

Attachment: Add eBay's Hungarian site to search plugins

Didn't remove the eBay en-GB or update list.txt with attachment 503205 [details] [diff] [review], corrected.

Comment 18

[Seth Bindernagel]

Comment on attachment 503210 [details] [diff] [review]
Add eBay's Hungarian site to search plugins

Small nit, in this patch, there are a few "\ No newline at end of file" present.  Can you edit the patch to get rid of that?  Then we are good to go.

Comment 19

[Kev Needham [:kev]]

Attachment: Updated eBay HU Search Plugin

Per comment #18, revised patch removing extraneous diff output.

Comment 20

[Seth Bindernagel]

Comment on attachment 503835 [details] [diff] [review]
Updated eBay HU Search Plugin

This looks good.  Please land on l10n-central, adding a comment to the checkin that references bug 603975, this change, and r=sethb.

Once landed, please test the nightly and then sign off if all looks good.  We
cannot take any changes without a signoff.

Comment 21

[Seth Bindernagel]

Andras, now that we have the eBay search plugin set up properly, can you reattach a new patch that updates attachment 492181 [details] [diff] [review].  Please flag me for a review of that patch when you've uploaded it.

Comment 22

[Kalman Kemenczy]

Hi Seth,

I wonder why bluu.hu cannot be the part of the search plugin set.
This is really unique search method especially for Hungarian people.
Please let's discuss about it, if possible.
thanks
kalman

Comment 23

[Seth Bindernagel]

I mentioned that my reservation for bluu.hu was that it is still listed as "beta".  Andras said that he thinks "the word "Beta" should be understood as a buzzword taken from the Web 2.0 terminology. IMHO it does not mean low quality or unstable."  

If the product is not in beta, then I wonder why they still advertise it as beta?  Many products, Gmail included, will keep the beta distinction around way too long.  

If your team wants Bluu in the set of search engines, could one of you contact Bluu and do the following:

1) confirm that they are OK with us shipping them in Firefox
2) ask for the XML they would like us to use for the search plugin
3) ask them about the "beta" status
4) if they are willing, ask them to share some basic usage numbers for their service to help us validate our decision

Finally, with Bluu included, what would be the final set of search engines for Hu for FF 4?  Can you list them please:

General purpose:  Google, Bluu
ecommerce: ?
Specific interest: ?

Comment 24

[Kalman Kemenczy]

Hi Seth,

Sorry for the big delay.
Here are their answers for your questions:

1) "We are pleased to be in Firefox and thank you for this opportunity."
2) "Find the attachment"
3) „Beta status” has been stopped it could be seen because we wanted to wait until starting a widget system similar to iGoogle and anyone will be able to create widget to it. 
4) "Around 20 thousand daily visitors."

Please let me know if you need any other information.

thanks
kalman

Comment 25

[Kalman Kemenczy]

Attachment: Bluu search plugin

Comment 26

[Seth Bindernagel]

Comment on attachment 512172 [details]
Bluu search plugin

Need to follow Mozsearch 

A good resource is here.

ttps://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n:Toolbox#Creating_a_new_search_plugin_file

I will attach more for you in the next comment.

Comment 27

[Seth Bindernagel]

Attachment: New Bluu XML plugin

Please run this patch by Bluu for approval.

If Bluu fixes the suggestions, this file can be left as-is.

If they say that we can have the non-HTML suggestions by adding a parameter, than this file will need to be amended to include this param; for instance (assuming that that we're passing html=0 in the URL):

  <Url type="application/x-suggestions+json" method="GET"
       template="http://www.bluu.hu/bluu.suggest.php">
    <Param name="q" value="{searchTerms}"/>
    <Param name="html" value="0"/>
  </Url>

If they don't fix anything, the whole suggestions part should be removed.

The patch itself should be the output of hg diff (after hg add and having edited list.txt).

(compliments of Stas for the help)

Comment 28

[Kalman Kemenczy]

Attachment: Latest Bluu plugin

Comment 29

[Kalman Kemenczy]

Please find the new plugin from Bluu.
Let me know if you need more information
best
kalman

Comment 30

[Seth Bindernagel]

Comment on attachment 512634 [details] [diff] [review]
New Bluu XML plugin

Hi Guys, I need to see this XML file as a diff output from your local repo.  Can you make the change and attach the diff?  With a positive review of that diff, I can then give you and r+ and you can push the changes.  

We are very close, you just need to show me the local changes and that they work locally.

Comment 31

[Andras Timar]

Attachment: Bluu diff for approval

Hi Seth,

Please find attached the patch.

Thanks!

Comment 32

[Seth Bindernagel]

Comment on attachment 514455 [details] [diff] [review]
Bluu diff for approval

This is one last small thing before I give this an r+.  Can you remove the "\ No newline at end of file" that occurs throughout this patch?  I have been able to remove this pesky line by opening the patch in Vi, removing that, and then saving and quitting.  Please remove it and then resubmit for a quick approval.  All looks good to go except that.

Comment 33

[Csaba Kozák [:WonderCsabo]]

Comment on attachment 514455 [details] [diff] [review]
Bluu diff for approval

+ <Description>Bluu az intelligens keres�program</Description>

I think you omitted a dash (-) here:

Bluu *- *az intelligens keres�program

Comment 34

[Andras Timar]

Attachment: Bluu diff for approval 2nd try

Comment 35

[Seth Bindernagel]

Comment on attachment 514539 [details] [diff] [review]
Bluu diff for approval 2nd try

Beautiful.  Please land this on l10n-central.   Test the nightly build.  Then, sign off if all looks good.  When you sign off you can close this bug as fixed.

Comment 36

[Csaba Kozák [:WonderCsabo]]

(In reply to comment #34)
> Created attachment 514539 [details] [diff] [review]
> Bluu diff for approval 2nd try

What about the dash? Any thoughts?

Comment 37

[Andras Timar]

I put in the dash, thanks for the suggestion.

Comment 38

[Andras Timar]

Attachment: eBay HU correction

There was a typo in Kev Needham's patch, and the eBay searchplugin did not work. My patch fixes this problem.

Comment 39

[Seth Bindernagel]

Comment on attachment 514885 [details] [diff] [review]
eBay HU correction

I'm gonna ask Kev for a review on this one.

Comment 40

[Seth Bindernagel]

(In reply to comment #38)
> Created attachment 514885 [details] [diff] [review]
> eBay HU correction
> 
> There was a typo in Kev Needham's patch, and the eBay searchplugin did not
> work. My patch fixes this problem.

Kev, can you have a look at this patch?

Comment 41

[Kalman Kemenczy]

Kev, please check this patch, we need it in the final release!
thanks
kalman

Comment 42

[Seth Bindernagel]

Comment on attachment 514885 [details] [diff] [review]
eBay HU correction

Kev is on vacation. This looks good.  Please land this now.

Comment 43

[Csaba Kozák [:WonderCsabo]]

Bluu plugins still misses the dash.(In reply to comment #37)
> I put in the dash, thanks for the suggestion.

Bluu plugin still misses the dash.

Comment 44

[Andras Timar]

(In reply to comment #43)
 
> Bluu plugin still misses the dash.

Wrong. See: http://hg.mozilla.org/l10n-central/hu/file/e9df3966750d/browser/searchplugins/bluu.xml

Comment 45

[Andras Timar]

signed off

Comment 46

[Csaba Kozák [:WonderCsabo]]

(In reply to comment #44)
> (In reply to comment #43)
> 
> > Bluu plugin still misses the dash.
> 
> Wrong. See:
> http://hg.mozilla.org/l10n-central/hu/file/e9df3966750d/browser/searchplugins/bluu.xml

Excuse me, i didnt know it's already in the repo. Thanks for the fix!