635742 - Cannot Restore Thunderbird library from Apple Time Machine backup - permissions denied

Status: RESOLVED WORKSFORME

(Thunderbird :: General, defect)

Description

[Derek Williams]

User-Agent:       Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-GB; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101203 Firefox/3.6.13
Build Identifier: 10.6.6

I want to back up to an earlier Thunderbird folder, so I do the following:
Select the folder:
HD>User>Library>Thunderbird

Open Apple Time Machine app, go back to an hour old backup and choose Restore.  I am then asked:
"Keep Both | Keep Original | Replace"

I choose Keep Both.  A message then says "you cannot copy this file because you do not have permissions".  Yet I am the only user of this machine, I am only ever logged on with Admin permissions, and other files DO work with Time Machine, only Mozilla Thunderbird I cannot restore.

I contacted Apple about this and they said they cannot support it because their files DO restore, and Mozilla is a third party application.



Reproducible: Always

Steps to Reproduce:
1. Click User>Library>Thunderbird folder
2. Open Apple Time Machine
3. Go to earlier window and choose Restore
Actual Results:  
I am then asked:
"Keep Both | Keep Original | Replace"

I choose Keep Both.  A message then says "you cannot copy this file because you do not have permissions".  Yet I am the only user of this machine, I am only ever logged on with Admin permissions, and other files DO work with Time Machine, only Mozilla Thunderbird I cannot restore.

I contacted Apple about this and they said they cannot support it because their files DO restore, and Mozilla is a third party application.

Expected Results:  
The backed up Thunderbird folder in Time Machine should replace or duplicate the current Thunderbird folder

1MAR2010 Case ID 153420239
George:  re permissions not allowing access to Time Machine 2TB LaCie drives
Luke, Jimmy, Slim in followups after the problem was not fixed.

I have been told it is not an Apple issue.  They say the identical behaviour is happening with Microsoft Entourage.  I was advised not to use their Time Machine software and instead to buy Red5. But I would prefer this to be fixed b Mozilla since it is the only that I cannot Restore.

I can say that the folder itself can easily be copied from disk to disk, but not from the Time Machine disk under any circumstances.  In the Get Info window, all the files and folders appear showing that I have full admin permissions, but with the padlock closed.  I have tried unlocking this, and "apply to enclosed items" but this makes no difference - the system still insists I do not have permission to cooy the Thunderbird folder from the LaCie Time Machine Backup disk.

Comment 1

[Ludovic Hirlimann [:Usul]]

Yeah dupme is never going to be found if the security bit is set :)

Was thunderbird running when you tried to restore ? (and we don't do sepcial things so apple just balled you :-) )

Comment 2

[Derek Williams]

(In reply to comment #1)
> Yeah dupme is never going to be found if the security bit is set :)
> 
> Was thunderbird running when you tried to restore ? (and we don't do sepcial
> things so apple just balled you :-) )

Yes it was running, however on retesting just now after quitting Thunderbird, I find the behaviour identical, Restore does not work because of permissions error.

If you go to the YouSendit screen recording I made of the behaviour that is saved in the URL field on this page, you will see it happening in real time.

So far as Apple's response is concerned, I found it incomprehensible as it seems to me to be just a simple matter of locating and copying data.  But the agent insisted that they had the same issue with Entourage.  I can verify however that files and folders other the Thunderbird will restore without these permissions errors occurring.

They gave me the case ID some time ago, and asked me to report back any response I get from Mozilla.  You're welcome to also approach them directly with this case ID.

Comment 3

[Derek Williams]

here is the link again:

https://www.yousendit.com/download/T2pIaXRIQzNRR2RFQlE9PQ

Comment 4

[Derek Williams]

New Apple Case ID:  205559929

Comment 5

[Ludovic Hirlimann [:Usul]]

Make sure you close Thunderbird when you do you restore.

Comment 6

[Wayne Mery (:wsmwk)]

(In reply to comment #4)
> New Apple Case ID:  205559929

So the Apple case is still open and not closed? Did they agree they have a permissions bug?

Comment 7

[Derek Williams]

(In reply to comment #6)
> (In reply to comment #4)
> > New Apple Case ID:  205559929
> 
> So the Apple case is still open and not closed? Did they agree they have a
> permissions bug?

Yes, they gave it the new case ID above, as the original one was a year old.  They asked for all this info, and so I emailed them links to this bug report, and a copy of the above screen recording.  Personally I think it's incontestable that this must be an Apple bug, because if it were permissions, then I should also not be able to copy the Thunderbird folder from its Library location to another drive.  The permissions error arises only when I attempt to retrieve the backed up Thunderbird Library folder from the Time Machine drive, no matter whether I do it through their proprietary Time Machine utility, or a simple drag/drop or copy/paste duplication.  I have two such 2TB LaCie Time Machine drives, and cannot retrieve the Thunderbird folder from either drive.

Apple also requested that I submit an identical report via http://www.apple.com/feedback, which I duly did.  However I must say that I've been submitting bugs to that site for years, but the bugs are still evident, so either they're considered zero priority, or Apple don't read what people laboriously type in there.

I can cite two long standing Apple bugs that I submitted, which have never been addressed. One is a problem which they even acknowledged as a bug and gave me a Case ID for, where the widgets>weather icons forget their screen geometry over time and have to be manually realigned regularly, and the other is a bug introduced by Snow Leopard, in which MIDI/Audio utility forgets the dragged-to positions of its icons and redraws them all in a straight line every time.  Therefore, I have little hope that they will bother about my Thunderbird feedback online, and am hoping for better results through responses via this forum and the direct communication via their phone tech support.

Comment 8

[Derek Williams]

someone marked this "resolved" - however i tried just now after running updater for Thunderbird, and the permissions error keeps occurring, so it is not currently resolved with the release version

Comment 9

[Ludovic Hirlimann [:Usul]]

(In reply to comment #8)
> someone marked this "resolved" - however i tried just now after running updater
> for Thunderbird, and the permissions error keeps occurring, so it is not
> currently resolved with the release version

Sure but it's an apple bug so there's no reason to keep this open.

Comment 10

[Derek Williams]

(In reply to comment #9)
> (In reply to comment #8)
> > someone marked this "resolved" - however i tried just now after running updater
> > for Thunderbird, and the permissions error keeps occurring, so it is not
> > currently resolved with the release version
> 
> Sure but it's an apple bug so there's no reason to keep this open.

Apple categorically deny it's their bug and insist it's Mozilla.  So until a decision is reached jointly, I believe it should remain open, as it's definitely not resolved.  Apple's claim is that because other items can be restored from Time Machine and Thunderbird cannot, that it is therefore a problem with Thunderbird.  They stated that if zero objects could be restored then they would accept it as an Apple bug.

Comment 11

[Derek Williams]

I have repeated these steps with a new 2TB LaCie drive, formatted from scratch, and after a redo of the Time Machine backup (took over 12 hours), and after a Mac OS update to 10.6.7 build.

This time the Restore of Home>Library>Thunderbird (created by build 3.1.9) completed successfully.

I'll try again with the other drive tomorrow and see if the same thing works successfully.

Comment 12

[Derek Williams]

Attachment: option to replace or keep

option to replace or keep

Comment 13

[Derek Williams]

Attachment: admin security check

admin security check

Comment 14

[Derek Williams]

This is now fixed.  I was given a warning that I may be asked for my admin login details, which I was, after which the Restore from Time Machine as successfully complete.

I've still no idea whether this was an Apple or Mozilla bug, because both have promulgated version updates since posting.

Closing this case now.

Derek Williams

Comment 15

[Derek Williams]

Attachment: Application Registry permissions prevent Restore still

This has resurfaced, now once again I cannot restore Thunderbird any more, it is telling me I don't have permission to access "Application Registry", which I clearly do, as you can see from this attachment.

All my folders disappeared because of a bug in v.6 beta, so it is vital I now can get my mail back.

Comment 16

[Derek Williams]

Workaround was to reboot on earlier OS 10.6.7 on a third driver and copy from drive 2 to drive 1 without being logged on to either of them.  After that I could reboot and TB worked again, in version 3, as version 6 causes folder buttons and sometimes the folders themselves to disappear, and there is an error continually saying "QuickTime could not find a plug-in" ever since version 4.

Comment 17

[Derek Williams]

Attachment: Step 1 - backup to logged on server with R/W permissions

Step 1:  starting to back up on laptop as logged on server with logged on permissions

Comment 18

[Derek Williams]

Attachment: Step 2 - I don't have permissions?

Step 2:  I am logged on to a server that has full permissions yet I am told I don't have permissions

Comment 19

[Derek Williams]

Attachment: Step 3 - what does the server think?

Step 3: This is the permissions settings on the server, which I am accessing to upload this screenshot!

Comment 20

[Derek Williams]

Attachment: Step 4 - delete Thunderbird from target library and copy anyway

Step4:  On the server, I deleted the whole folder (which had been deleted and then only partially copied before the permissions error dynamited the copy)

Now the copy is able to go ahead.  So much for permissions!

This permissions issue is still around after many versions and updates of Thunderbird.

I own the computer.  I am its only user.  I have given myself holus bolus 'permission' to do any copying, yet either the Apple OS, or something in the way that Thunderbird writes its preferences, is making me feel unwanted in my own home, even by myself.  :(

Comment 21

[Derek Williams]

PS when I tried to view one of the attachments above, I got another mozilla error at https://bug635742.bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=584782:

"Server not found       
Firefox can't find the server at bug635742.bugzilla.mozilla.org."

Comment 22

[Derek Williams]

Apple case ID 277786470 raised regarding permissions and Time Machine.

Many hours/days and still unresolved, but may be related to porting User client files across several successive generations of computer/processor/OS/update

We tried BatchMod on both source drive and Time Machine drive, but still no joy.

Apple's current proposed last resort workaround is to format hard disk and reinstall OS.

Comment 23

[shrek-m]

no problem here - OSX 10.7.3
i *renamed* the existing Thunderbird folder and restored it from TimeMachine


1.
Thunderbird closed

2.
move the old ~/Library/Thunderbird to ~/Library/Thunderbird-old
- open a Terminal
- $ cd Library 
- $pwd /Users/<user>/Library 
- $ mv Thunderbid Thunderbird-old

3.
restore ~/Library/Thunderbird with TimeMachine
open Finder
go to folder /Users/<user>/Library
start TimeMachine
go back in time
restore ~/Library/Thunderbird



== all is ok

$ ls -l Thunderbird/Application\ Registry 
-rw-r--r--  1 <user>  staff  335 22 Jul  2010 Thunderbird/Application Registry

$ ls -lR Thunderbird
..........

Comment 24

[Derek Williams]

Thanks - I have forwarded to the tech support folks at Apple (Case 277786470)

Comment 25

[Wayne Mery (:wsmwk)]

(In reply to Derek Williams from comment #24)
> Thanks - I have forwarded to the tech support folks at Apple (Case 277786470)

status?
are Apple still in denial?

Comment 26

[Derek Williams]

Wayne - thanks

I took the following steps:

1. Moved the Thunberbird folder from the User>Library folder to the desktop.
2. Launched Thunberbird
3. Quit Thunderbrd
4. There was then a new Thunderbird folder in the Library folder as above
5. Clicked on the New Thunderbird folder to highlight it
6. Launched Time Machine
7. Tabbed back through the Thunderbird pages to find one the predated the New folder
8. Clicked Restore tab in Time Machine
9. Time Machine quit
10. A message said "Thunderbird folder already exists..etc"
11. I clicked Replace
12. The Restore proceeded normally without Permssions error experienced previously
13. At the conclusion of the Restore, I relaunched Thunderbird to check data
14. Everything OK - older POP3 data fine
15. Quit Thunderbird
16. Copied saved Thunderbird folder from Desktop back into Library folder, replacing the Restored Thunderbird folder
17. Relaunched Thunderbird and checked everything was back to the way it had been

All AOK.