Closed
Bug 66522
Opened 24 years ago
Closed 19 years ago
Preferences Mousewheel: Each modifier should be listed separately
Categories
(SeaMonkey :: Preferences, defect)
Tracking
(Not tracked)
RESOLVED
FIXED
People
(Reporter: Peter, Assigned: bugs)
References
Details
(Keywords: helpwanted, Whiteboard: In UI Hell)
Attachments
(4 files, 5 obsolete files)
19.79 KB,
patch
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Details | Diff | Splinter Review | |
15.37 KB,
image/png
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Details | |
2.00 KB,
patch
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caillon
:
review+
bzbarsky
:
superreview+
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Details | Diff | Splinter Review |
13.47 KB,
image/gif
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Details |
Preferences Mousewheel: Each modifier should be listed separately METHOD 1 (uses a lot of space - which is available): +-- *Specify Mousewheel Behaviour* --------------------------------------------+ | | No modifyer: <> unassigned (default) | <> scroll document by [ 1 ] lines (Default). | <> scroll page up/down | <> move back/forward in browser history | <> make text larger/smaller | | ALT: <> unassigned | <> scroll document by [ ] lines | scroll page up/down | move back/forward in browser history (default) | make text larger/smaller | | CTRL: unassigned | scroll document by [ ] lines | scroll page up/down | move back/forward in browser history | make text larger/smaller (default) | | SHIFT: unassigned (default) | scroll document by [ ] lines | scroll page up/down | move back/forward in browser history | make text larger/smaller +------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ METHOD 2 (much "cleaner" and uses less space): At a *MINIMUM*, both sets of options (alt, ctrl, etc AND the corresponding functions) should be visible at ALL times. +-- *Specify Mousewheel Behaviour* ---------------------------+ | | | <> No modifyer | <> unassigned | | <> ALT | <> scroll document by [ ] lines | | <> CTRL | <> scroll page up/down | | <> SHIFT | <> move back/forward in browser history | | | <> make text larger/smaller | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ This way people will see that there can be multiple option selected at the same time. For the longest time (until I accidentally discovered it today), I thought that one could to select only ONE of the functions. This way, depending on which modifyer one selected on the left, one would immediately see what function whs selected on the right.
Comment 1•24 years ago
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Method 1 was the way it used to be and then they changed it to what you see now.
Reporter | ||
Comment 2•24 years ago
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In that case, method 2 should definetely be implemented. The current layout is horribly non-intuitive.
Keywords: helpwanted,
mozilla1.0
Comment 3•24 years ago
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cc'ing bryner and matthew (whose going to start his comment with `Well, this panel shouldn't exist anyways...' ;)
Comment 4•24 years ago
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Well, this panel shouldn't exist anyway ... But yes, assuming you've got the space, a grid of labels and popup menus -- _Mousewheel by itself: [Scroll :^] _Amount: [20 pixels :^] with _Ctrl key: [Change text size :^] with Al_t key: [Back/Forward :^] _with Ctrl+Alt: [Home/End :^] -- would be easier to use than the current arrangement (but not easier to use than no arrangement at all). The `Speed:' control would have to move itself around depending on which menu had `Scroll' at the time.
Status: UNCONFIRMED → NEW
Ever confirmed: true
Reporter | ||
Comment 5•24 years ago
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Excellent suggestion. This way one would see all selections at once. However, I would change the Amount from pixels to lines, if possible - it's more intuitive to the user.
Comment 6•24 years ago
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And, I believe lines is the finest-grained control we have on scrolling views.
Comment 8•24 years ago
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mpt's suggestion for making the panel more intuitive would also eliminate bug 64051.
Updated•23 years ago
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Status: NEW → ASSIGNED
Comment 9•23 years ago
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Can someone assign this to me? I'm working on it. My current plan (to fit the suggestion into the available space) is to do this: +-- *Specify Mouse wheel Behavior* ------------------------------------------+ _Mouse wheel by itself: [Scroll lines :^] _Amount: [ ] [] Use system default with _Ctrl key: [Change text size :^] with Al_t key: [Go back/forward in browsing history :^] _with _Shift key: [Scroll page :^] (Note: the "Amount: [ ] [] Use system default" group becomes disabled if you choose anything other than the first item ("Scroll lines") in the list. The diagram above shows it disappearing instead. What do people prefer?)
Comment 10•23 years ago
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Comment 11•23 years ago
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Comment 12•23 years ago
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Comment 13•23 years ago
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done.
Comment 14•23 years ago
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Since an access key can only be given out once, give it to Alt instead of Amount. Having use system default _after_ something that it controls is a bit awkward.
Reporter | ||
Comment 15•23 years ago
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Looking at your screenshot: - I think the "Amount:" line should only be visible where it applies ("scroll lines"). Having it greyed out everywhere is congusing and makes the screen look cluttered. - It should be possible to select "scroll lines" multiple times (with different modifiers). In such a case, the "amount" line should appear multiple times too - AND the "amount" should handle different values for each modifier (in case someone wants to scroll 1 line with CTRL, and 5 lines with ALT. - The "amount: [ ]" should have the word "line(s)" after it. It took me a while (too long) before I accidentally realized that the line above ("scroll lines") means it's referring to "lines". - Better would be "smooth scrolling" since the jumping by lines makes it too jerkey to read & follow where you are while the lines go jumping by. - If you have "Mousewheel by itself:", then for consistency you must include the word "Mousewheel" with the other modifier too. -> CTRL + Mousewheel, ALT + Mousewheel,, SHIFT + Mousewheel. It makes the options much clearer too.
Comment 16•23 years ago
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Thanks for the feedback, I'll try to incorporate your suggestions. Timeless, your point about the access keys is well taken. I'll modify the patch. About the system default checkbox - it has always been after the thing it controls (well, beneath it). Not a justification for keeping it that way, to be sure. It's easy enough to change: would you prefer it to be before the field? (i.e.: _Mouse wheel by itself: [Scroll lines :^] [] Use system default _Amount: [ ] ) Peter: 1) This should be easy enough to change. My main concern was that there will be a big space between all the drop down lists if "Scroll lines" is not selected in each one - It's not normal to reflow controls as combo box selections are changed, so the space for the checkbox, label and field would have to be "reserved" beneath each combo box. I'll send another screenshot demonstrating this after I've changed the patch. 2) It is possible to do this already in the patch. Changing from disabling to hiding shouldn't change this functionality. 3) I had to remove this because of lack of space. But see below. 4) Yeah, I thought "scroll lines" was kind of clunky too. If no-one objects I'll use "smooth scrolling" as you suggest. 5) I wonder if it might be better just to have: No modifier: With Alt: With Ctrl: With Shift: down the left hand side. The page already refers to mouse wheels twice, so it should be pretty clear what it applies to :). This has the added advantage that the extra horizontal space might make it possible to add the "lines" label after the field (point 3 above).
Reporter | ||
Comment 17•23 years ago
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If you "say" smooth scrolling, then you also have to "do" smooth scrolling. Can you actually implement *smooth scrolling*? That would be great. If you do that, the we should probably change "[ x ] lines" to *[fast | medium | slow ]*.
Comment 18•23 years ago
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Ohh-- I see what you mean now. I don't think I'd be capable of implementing smooth scrolling. Will stick with the existing text, in that case.
Comment 19•23 years ago
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Comment 20•23 years ago
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As it turned out, I underestimated the power of XUL :) It does the reflow automatically when I hide and show the "lines" components underneath. It doesn't actually look that bad.
Comment 21•23 years ago
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Reporter | ||
Comment 22•23 years ago
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Wow, that was fast. The screenshot looks great. Just a few more comments: 1. Is it possible to make the dropdown lists more narrow to be just a little wider than the longest entry? It looks to bulky & cluttered with them taking up all screen space. Will the max width be affected by large/small system fonts? 2. Could you rename "Conrol" to "Ctrl"? (We are not calling the "Alt" key "Alternative" key) 3. My preference is to call these keys with capital letters (ALT, CTRL, SHIFT) to make them easier to recognize; but that needs to be verified by a UI expert. 4. If we can (as I hope) use caps for the modifier keys, then maybe we could add the word "key" after them (e.g. "With ALT key:"). That makes it a bit more clear to novices that we are talking about 'key'board modifiers. 5. You may want to indent the "[ ] use system default" line a few more millimeters to the right to make it more clear that it is a "subset" of the line above and not an option on its own line. 6. Maybe the words "amount:" and "lines" should be just a bit closer to the "[ ]" box to make reading it flow a bit better. 7. The bounding box around the whole pref (inline with "Specify mouswheel behavior") seems to be missing the top-left corner - oops, it seems that all prefs dont have that corner. Should though. BTW: What is the difference between "system default" and "non-system default"?
No longer blocks: 64051
Comment 23•23 years ago
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1) The dropdowns are set to flex="1" so they take the remaining horizontal space. I had to do it this way, because otherwise the width of the dropdowns would change whenever the control group below was hidden/shown. The right edges of the dropdowns no longer lined up properly. 2) I don't control (uh) the text of these modifier keys. They vary from platform to platform; I'm just using an entity that is defined elsewhere. In other words, if I change this, I would have to change it for the whole of mozilla. If you think this should be done, it might be worth logging a separate bug (I'm not sure where else these entities are used). 3) As 2) 4) I'll add the word "key" back. This will also make the drop down lists slightly smaller. 5) I'll try to do this 6) I'll try to do this 7) Yeah, the version I built from CVS seems to be doing this in all groupboxes. I don't think it's something I'm doing. Are you seeing this also in a nightly?
Comment 24•23 years ago
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About the system default stuff - In the UI, this just controls the enablement of the text field. I think wheely-mouse users can set a preference in control panel (at least under windows) which specifies how many lines to scroll; if the use system default box is checked, mozilla uses the "system" preference rather than the number of lines specified by the user in mozilla preferences.
Reporter | ||
Comment 25•23 years ago
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How about renaming "Scroll lines" to "Scroll specified number of lines"? That way, the user knows that we are talking about the "number" of lines when refering to the system default. RE #7) I'm using 2001-08-23, winNT
Reporter | ||
Comment 26•23 years ago
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This bug was progressing nicely, and then suddenly, dead! Is Brian Duff still with us?
Whiteboard: Patch nearly finished?!
Comment 27•23 years ago
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Well, I suddenly got really busy at work and never got back to it :) I also stopped using Mozilla in frustration at its slow progress, which didn't help. I'll have a go at applying the patch to the latest code and fixing the last remaining suggestions over the weekend...
Comment 28•23 years ago
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Ugh, it seems that mozilla doesn't build properly on Windows XP, so until it does, there's nothing I can do.
Comment 29•23 years ago
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Oops, had VS.NET not VS 6 in my PATH. It builds fine. I've created a new patch based on the latest code and with Peter's last few suggestions.
Comment 30•23 years ago
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Attachment #46938 -
Attachment is obsolete: true
Attachment #46940 -
Attachment is obsolete: true
Updated•23 years ago
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Attachment #47011 -
Attachment is obsolete: true
Comment 31•23 years ago
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Attachment #46929 -
Attachment is obsolete: true
Attachment #47009 -
Attachment is obsolete: true
Reporter | ||
Comment 32•23 years ago
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Is it possible to implement some sensible defaults? I think currently *all* settings are on "Scroll Document". I would suggest the following defaults: no mod - scroll document ALT - Back/Forward CTRL - Text Size +/- SHIFT - Page up/down
Comment 33•22 years ago
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nsbeta1- per ADT triage. This can still be checked in with drivers approval.
Comment 34•22 years ago
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*** Bug 138525 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 35•22 years ago
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Hey, I'm a bit late with this idea, but what if the modifier key menu was not "radio" but "checkbox list", so users could use double-bucky modifiers (like shift+ctrl or ctrl-alt) as additional options?
Comment 36•22 years ago
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Hmm, this all seems too complicated. Do we really need to ask the user whether to scroll by pixels/lines/pages/the system default? You'd think that's an OS preference, if anything; I shouldn't need to set the mouse wheel speed for every application I use. So if you forget about having 14 different ways to scroll, and figure that if you're using the scrollwheel by itself you're scrolling, you could vastly simplify this preference panel by just doing something like this: +-- The mouse wheel should: ------------------------------------------+ | | | - Move back/forward through history: [ when I hold down option (v)] | | | | - Change the text size: [ when I hold down option (v)] | | [ x when I hold down control ] | +-------------------------[ when I hold down shift ]-----------+ [ never ]
Comment 37•22 years ago
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Hmm. The OS preferences on my machine only allow you to scroll by X lines at a time, or one screen at a time, i.e.: ----------------------------------------------- Roll the wheel one notch to scroll: o The following number of lines at a time [ 3 ] o One screen at a time ----------------------------------------------- I guess the OS settings depend which mouse / driver / OS combo you have. I tend to agree we should just use the OS settings (assuming they're available) except for moving backwards and forwards. Changing the text size with the wheel mouse always seemed a bit dubious to me... The only other comment I have is that that kind of "truncated sentence" UI you suggested (where part of the sentence is in the label and part of it in the control) usually doesn't translate well. At least we're discouraged from doing that kind of thing in Oracle. To be honest, I'm kind of tired of trying to fix this UI. I'm starting to agree with mpt in comment 4... :)
Reporter | ||
Comment 38•22 years ago
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Brian, you latest screenshot in comment #31 looks GREAT. How about submitting the patch for that and get r= and sr=. Every day that goes buy is a day that users don't understand/use this useful preference.
Comment 39•22 years ago
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Brian: You're preaching to the choir: I've never used a scroll wheel for anything other than scrolling, and I wouldn't blink an eye if you vaporized this panel. (Do it, do it now!) I figured if we had to have it, it might as well not suck. My Wacom mouse (whose driver is intolerable) lets me choose between disabled, /n/ lines per notch, one page per notch, custom keystrokes for each direction, and even the option to reverse the wheel's direction. And you can configure it differently per application, including for the Wacom configuration app itself! What Wacom does is an abomination. Double-shame on us if we re-implement it, for (1) copying a bad design, and (2) forcing the user to set the same controls twice. (Can you guess what happens if I set the mousewheel to scroll "by pages" in the control panel, but "by 3 lines at a time" in the Mozilla prefs?) Point about translations well taken. The simplest solution is probably just to move the verbs out of the popup: | - Change the text size when I hold down: [ Option ] | | [ x Control ] | +------------------------------------------[ Shift ]--------+ [ Never do this ] Or give them checkboxes, if "never do this" in a popup with the modifiers is awkward: | [x] Change the text size when I hold down: [ Option ] | | [ x Control ] | +--------------------------------------------[ Shift ]--------+ (This has the added benefit of allowing you to just uncheck everything -- a fairly natural action -- to say "Just always #%^@! scroll, already!" That's something that's lacking from the comment 31 screenshot.) Though I must admit I'm now in the mpt camp: this prefs panel simply shouldn't exist.
Reporter | ||
Comment 40•22 years ago
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> Ken: "I've never used a scroll wheel for anything other than scrolling"
That's fine for you, but others use the scroll key for more than just one
purpose (e.g., I *regularly* use the CTRL+scroll to change the text zoom).
Also, the "modifiers" (ctrl, alt, shift) should be up front and fixed, not as
dropdown items. That is to avoid someone selecting a modifier twice, thus
causing a logic conflict.
PS. Anyone wanting to just scoll, no matter what modifier is/isn't pressed,
could simply set all dropdowns to "Scroll specified number of lines". ;)
Comment 41•22 years ago
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I'd like to clear this bug; can we get a consensus? Please vote either yay or nay on the last patch / screenshot from comment #30 and comment #31. If the yays win, I'll check it works with the latest nightly and set about getting r= and sr=.
Comment 42•22 years ago
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Nay. You probably could guess that, so here's the why: Ok, if people really need control-wheel to zoom, let's make control-wheel zoom. That doesn't mean we need a preference panel for it. There are keyboard shortcuts for zooming, too, but we don't have a preference panel for changing them. (If somebody goes and files a bug "all keyboard shortcuts should be remappable through a prefs panel" now, I'll go hang myself.) I'd much rather have control-wheel zoom everywhere than have Yet Another Preference. When Apple, Adobe, Microsoft, etc., want to make control, alt, shift, do special things, they don't make the user decide what each one goes with: they pick something reasonable and go with it. Thanks to this, I can sit down in front of any Adobe product on any computer in the world and know that option-drag means "make a copy". In fact, the _only_ defense I can see for this particular preference is something like "Opera uses the modifier keys one way, and Internet Explorer uses the modifier keys some other way, and we don't want to kill our half our (potential) users' motor memory" (a laudable goal). In which case, Mozilla should have exactly one mousewheel preference: | The mousewheel in Mozilla should use: [ Mozilla's defaults ] | [ Opera's behavior ] | [ Explorer's behavior ] | | With this setting: Control-wheel will zoom in/out, and | alt-wheel navigates through your history. (Or, better yet, if one of the other programs has a good convention, use that, and don't even have a Mozilla-specific defaults. Either way, we can say we're making it easy for people to migrate to Mozilla.) Allowing (forcing) you to configure each combination reminds me of mpt's bug 103543 comment 5. It just looks unprofessional. Who'd ever set "No modifiers" to "Zoom" or "Navigate history", anyway? That's not a feature, that's the sort of thing you do to your coworkers for April fool's day.
Reporter | ||
Comment 43•22 years ago
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YAY - Make sensible defaults *and* let users customize to *their* tastes.
Comment 44•22 years ago
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Wow, that really resolved the issue :/ OK, I'm signing out for now :)
Assignee: Brian.Duff → ben
Updated•22 years ago
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Whiteboard: Patch nearly finished?! → In UI Hell
Comment 45•22 years ago
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I'm new to this bug, but vot yes on the patch. Until I read this bug, I had no idea I could use different modifiers for different tasks.
Comment 46•22 years ago
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*** Bug 169415 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 47•22 years ago
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Why not just change the current setup into a tab control?
Comment 48•22 years ago
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Comment 49•22 years ago
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Reporter | ||
Comment 50•22 years ago
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The tab control you suggest is *much* better than what we have now. I prefer the solution suggested in comment #4, comment #9, and (the screenshot in) comment #31. The benefit is that the user can see all his settings at once.
Updated•22 years ago
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Attachment #99653 -
Flags: superreview?(bzbarsky)
Attachment #99653 -
Flags: review?(ben)
Comment 51•21 years ago
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Comment on attachment 99653 [details] [diff] [review] Use a tab control sr=me.
Attachment #99653 -
Flags: superreview?(bzbarsky) → superreview+
Updated•21 years ago
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Attachment #99653 -
Flags: review?(bugs) → review?(caillon)
Updated•21 years ago
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Attachment #99653 -
Flags: review?(caillon) → review+
Comment 52•21 years ago
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Attachment 99653 [details] [diff] checked in; up to plairo to decide if this is fixed.
Reporter | ||
Comment 54•21 years ago
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> Attachment 99653 [details] [diff] checked in; up to plairo to decide if this is fixed.
Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I think the "assignee" and r & sr are the
ones to decide this. I would like to be able to provide input, but cannot read
code. Where can I see the result of your patch? Could you attach a screenshot?
Reporter | ||
Comment 55•21 years ago
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Aparently I had overseen the screenshot already attached to this bug, sorry. Looking at the screenshot, I would have preferred if the UI from attachment 70984 [details]. That way, the user could *see* all settings at once. The latest screenshot (attachment 99655 [details]) is only an slight improvement over the current situation (now user can see tabs for the other mouse-wheel modifiers). Therefore, my vote would have to go towards "it's not fixed yet", but it's not up to me to decide. (sorry for renegging on my comment 50) PS. If the UI from attachment 70984 [details] is used, I would suggest to try to eliminate the word "with" from the three options to make the control key name quicker to identify. This could be done by rewording the preference's title text: +-- Mouse-wheel Behavior (when used with or without a modifyer key) -------+ by it_self: [Scroll page :^] [ ]Use system d_efault [ ]Sm_ooth scrolling _Amount: [ ] lines _Ctrl key: [Change text size :^] Al_t key: [Go back/forward in browsing history :^] _Shift key: [Scroll page :^] I added "Smooth scrolling" because i think it's already in the code (general.smoothScroll). This way, users can en-/disable it as desired (just a suggestion). There would also need to be enough (fixed) space between every option for the "scroll page" options.
Comment 56•21 years ago
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Please, please, please! Before closing this bug as fixed, take a look at bug 189786 . Even after this checkin, as the translation for the first string (above the tabbed panel) is being cut, even the tabbed panel gets cut. This is the last serious graphical glitch left for our translation (and I guess even for somebody else's).
Comment 57•20 years ago
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Can we close down this bug as resolved/fixed?
Updated•20 years ago
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Product: Browser → Seamonkey
Comment 58•19 years ago
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Peter Lairo must have gotten accustomed to the way it works as there were no more comments. I agree with Giacomo that this is fixed.
Status: NEW → RESOLVED
Closed: 19 years ago
Resolution: --- → FIXED
Reporter | ||
Comment 59•19 years ago
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My original bug description (1) and my comment 55 (2) both still stand. But since I'm using Thunderbird now, it's you guys that have to live with the UI bloat and less concise UI... My recommendation: Decide on sensible defaults, trash the UI, put this pref into about:config. (1) "At a *MINIMUM*, both sets of options (alt, ctrl, etc AND the corresponding functions) should be visible at ALL times." (2) "it's not fixed yet"
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Description
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