Closed Bug 749945 Opened 13 years ago Closed 12 years ago

Download history not removed from Library when preference to clear download history on exit is set

Categories

(Firefox :: Bookmarks & History, defect)

Product:
Firefox
Component:
Bookmarks & History
Type:
defect
Priority:
Not set
Severity:
normal

Tracking

()

Status:
RESOLVED WONTFIX

People

(Reporter: from_bugzilla3, Unassigned)

References

Details

User Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Ubuntu; Linux x86_64; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120424 Firefox/14.0a2 Build ID: 20120424230311 Steps to reproduce: 1. Check "Clear history when Aurora closes" in Preferences > Privacy 2. Check "Download History", "Active Logins", and "Cache" in the "Settings for Clearing History" dialog. Leave everything else unchecked. 3. Download a bunch of files 4. Restart Firefox Actual results: The Downloads section of the Library window continues to contain every file I've downloaded in uncounted months. (Including many that predate Aurora 14.0a2 and the new download manager UI) Expected results: The Downloads section should be empty.
Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:15.0) Gecko/15.0 Firefox/15.0a1 I can confirm this with Nightly. With browsing history enabled, the downloads are deleted on restart. With Browsing history disabled and Download history enabled, downloads are not deleted at restart. Seems to be the same behavior in F9 so no recent regression, just easier to spot now that the Library window is accessible from the download menu.
Status: UNCONFIRMED → NEW
Component: Untriaged → Session Restore
Ever confirmed: true
QA Contact: untriaged → session.restore
Version: 14 Branch → Trunk
This shouldn't have anything to do with session restore.
Component: Session Restore → Download Manager
Product: Firefox → Toolkit
QA Contact: session.restore → download.manager
confirm this with Firefox 15 and Aurora 17.0a2 under Windows XP Download History is not deleted on restart when Browsing History is not selected http://www.pic-upload.de/view-15922972/Bild-1.jpg.html
I cannot reproduce this with the latest Firefox 18.0a1 nightly. Can you please try with a brand new profile? Run firefox.exe -P to create a profile.
with new clean profiles in both Versions and 18.0a1 nightly the same Problem. i mean this Window http://www.pic-upload.de/view-15999289/Bild-2.jpg.html show all history/downloads.
I can at least reproduce this in the latest 18.0a1 nightly and Firefox 15.0.1. Here are some more specific steps to reproduce: 1. Start Firefox with a new profile 2. Open Preferences > Privacy 3. Under History, select Firefox will "Use custom settings for history" 4. Check "Clear history when Firefox closes" and click the "Settings..." button 5. Uncheck "Browsing History", "Cookies", and "Form & Search History" 6. Download a file and restart Firefox when complete 7. Open the Download Manager > Download item is gone 8. Open History > Show All History and select Downloads in the left-pane > Download item is still listed I did some testing to previous versions of Firefox and Firefox 8.0 is the first version where we started separating out Download history in the Library. Firefox 8.0 behaves exactly the same as Firefox 18.0a1 so I guess this is a design flaw and not a regression. If I check the box for "Browsing History" under "Clear history when Firefox closes" settings the Download entries in the Library do get cleared. It would appear that we are classifying Download items in the Library as Browsing History. Given the language of the preference, I think it would be completely reasonable to expect this preference to clear Downloads from the Library and the Download Manager. But as I said earlier, this is a design flaw and not a regression bug. Thank you Heike for filing this report.
Component: Download Manager → Bookmarks & History
OS: Linux → All
Product: Toolkit → Firefox
Hardware: x86_64 → All
Summary: "Clear history when Firefox closes > Download History" has no effect → Download history not removed from Library when preference to clear download history on exit is set
downloads and download history are indeed 2 well distinct concepts internally, the first one is the download tracking (size, position and so on) while the latter is just history. So they obey different preferences, I agree this may be confusing but always worked like this, just that Downloads made it more visible. That said, we are remaking the downloads view in the Library so I'm not sure we should spend time on this before that effort is complete.
with the new downloads experience this is basically fixed, downloads are per session, while downloads history is clearly grouped with browsing history in the UI ("Browsing and downloads history"). So, there's nothing we intend to do further here.
Status: NEW → RESOLVED
Closed: 12 years ago
Resolution: --- → WONTFIX
(In reply to Marco Bonardo [:mak] from comment #9) > with the new downloads experience this is basically fixed, downloads are per > session, while downloads history is clearly grouped with browsing history in > the UI ("Browsing and downloads history"). > So, there's nothing we intend to do further here. In that case, is there either a non-WONTFIX feature request to split Browsing History and Download History back apart or an extension which implements that behaviour? Browsing history is useful information that powers my Awesomebar so I rarely need to tell Google what I'm looking for. Download history is useless, annoying, and potentially embarassing cruft that bloats out my Firefox profile and prompted me to add a daily "manually flush download history" reminder to my calendar.
(In reply to Stephan Sokolow from comment #10) > In that case, is there either a non-WONTFIX feature request to split > Browsing History and Download History back apart or an extension which > implements that behaviour? They are still break apart, we just manage them as one thing (or at least try) bu design. > Download history is useless, annoying, and potentially embarassing cruft > that bloats out my Firefox profile and prompted me to add a daily "manually > flush download history" reminder to my calendar. While it may be useless for you, it is useful for other people. Regarding the "embarassing" part, Private Browsing feature is the intended way to deal with that, just CTRL+SHIFT+P, do whatever you want, then close the window (well, with the new per-window private browsing that is coming with next versions). There is also no risk to bloat the profile, the history automatically manages its limits.
(In reply to Marco Bonardo [:mak] from comment #11) > They are still break apart, we just manage them as one thing (or at least > try) bu design. So you're saying that the misleading separate "Browsing History" and "Download History" checkboxes are staying around? > > > Download history is useless, annoying, and potentially embarassing cruft > > that bloats out my Firefox profile and prompted me to add a daily "manually > > flush download history" reminder to my calendar. > > While it may be useless for you, it is useful for other people. I could turn that point around and use it against you just as easily. "While download history is useful for you, it's counter-productive to others. Let people toggle it independently of browsing history." If I had to point to one reason I use Firefox when Chrome is also open-source and much more responsive, it'd be about:config and the attitude toward user personalization that it embodies. > Regarding the "embarassing" part, Private Browsing feature is the intended > way to deal with that, just CTRL+SHIFT+P, do whatever you want, then close > the window (well, with the new per-window private browsing that is coming > with next versions). I'm on Aurora. It's already here. Having the foresight to open a private window is less comfortable... not to mention that the "on window creation" code in my addons can be very slow to complete. (I use one tabbed window for everything usually) > There is also no risk to bloat the profile, the history automatically > manages its limits. Oh, yeah. I'd forgotten about that and stand corrected: "... unless I keep manually wiping it, it causes cruft I don't care about to push out history I'd prefer to keep." My point remains: Download history serves a different purpose than browsing history and some users consider browsing history more desirable. Therefore, it should be possible to preserve browsing history while clearing download history on shutdown. Please either reconsider the WONTFIX or, failing that, let me know if you see any extensions which flush download history on exit. It really seems like bad design to require a whole extension just to fix such a trivial thing. (But then, it wouldn't be the first time. Firefox is the only app on my desktop AND the only browser I've tried on ANY platform which requires an extension to make the scroll wheel switch tabs... so much for fitting in with the rest of the desktop)
(In reply to Stephan Sokolow from comment #12) > (In reply to Marco Bonardo [:mak] from comment #11) > > They are still break apart, we just manage them as one thing (or at least > > try) bu design. > > So you're saying that the misleading separate "Browsing History" and > "Download History" checkboxes are staying around? There is a single checkbox that is "browsing and downloads history", what is staying around (for now) is logical separation between download data and download history. Though this should be transparent to the user (e.g. he should be able to act like there's only one). > > > Download history is useless, annoying, and potentially embarassing cruft > > > that bloats out my Firefox profile and prompted me to add a daily "manually > > > flush download history" reminder to my calendar. > > > > While it may be useless for you, it is useful for other people. > > I could turn that point around and use it against you just as easily. > > "While download history is useful for you, it's counter-productive to > others. Let people toggle it independently of browsing history." Yes, but we have UX, user research, plus tons of feedback from millions of users, thus we try to get what works better for the most. That clearly means it's impossible to satisfy everyone. > I'm on Aurora. It's already here. Having the foresight to open a private > window is less comfortable... But much safer, how can you be sure you removed everything? Private Browsing is a feature that gives you that sense of safety you cleared everything up correctly. I can ensure you it's quite easy to find forgotten information in profiles, you can't tell where we store all of the data and when, PB can give you that for free. > Please either reconsider the WONTFIX or, failing that, let me know if you > see any extensions which flush download history on exit. I'm not sure if one exists, but it's really easy to do with RemoveAllDownloads() API > It really seems like bad design to require a whole extension just to fix > such a trivial thing. The power of extensions is that they allow to customize the browser to your needs, if we would satisfy ANY need in the world, then the browser would indeed become bloated in months. A "whole" extension nowadays can be a few lines of code, thanks to the add-ons SDK. Not really anything heavy.
(In reply to Marco Bonardo [:mak] from comment #13) > There is a single checkbox that is "browsing and downloads history", what is > staying around (for now) is logical separation between download data and > download history. Though this should be transparent to the user (e.g. he > should be able to act like there's only one). > In other words, my question was correct. I'm looking for a non-WONTFIX'd feature request to split them back apart. > > Yes, but we have UX, user research, plus tons of feedback from millions of > users, thus we try to get what works better for the most. That clearly means > it's impossible to satisfy everyone. > I'm always wary of that. It's been said in various places by various people that UX testing almost always confirms management's existing bias (and I'm studying to be an HCI/UX specialist, so it pains me to say that) and I've seen many cases of you guys making changes based on similar arguments where you seem to ignore the numbers or hide behind trivial ones as fits your pre-existing plans. (Removing http:// from the address bar because Chrome did it, moving the RSS icon from an auto-hide address bar icon to a toolbar icon which is either never visible or always visible, etc.) I seriously doubt the actual user feedback specifically complained about having checkboxes to set browsing history retention and download retention independently. > > I'm on Aurora. It's already here. Having the foresight to open a private > > window is less comfortable... > > But much safer, how can you be sure you removed everything? Private Browsing > is a feature that gives you that sense of safety you cleared everything up > correctly. I can ensure you it's quite easy to find forgotten information in > profiles, you can't tell where we store all of the data and when, PB can > give you that for free. Yeah. Hence why I have 16GiB of RAM and run Firefox and a Chrome Incognito Window side-by-side at the risk of not being able to unclose a tab. It still requires a judgement call. (I run Chrome's Incognito Window partly out of habit and partly because it means I can still use my normal Firefox window in its usual merely sluggish manner while I wait for the dozen or so Incognito tabs I middle-clicked into existence. Were I using a Firefox Private Window, that'd wedge the whole browser since it's still all one process.) > > > Please either reconsider the WONTFIX or, failing that, let me know if you > > see any extensions which flush download history on exit. > > I'm not sure if one exists, but it's really easy to do with > RemoveAllDownloads() API What happens if I call that while downloads are in progress? ...and, if I'm going to write an extension anyway, what API would I use to flush only history that's more than 24 hours old? (I often leave my browser open for weeks on end... or until its leaks its way up to nearly freezing around 4GiB resident... so I'd want the extension to flush on exit AND on age) > > > It really seems like bad design to require a whole extension just to fix > > such a trivial thing. > > The power of extensions is that they allow to customize the browser to your > needs, if we would satisfy ANY need in the world, then the browser would > indeed become bloated in months. A "whole" extension nowadays can be a few > lines of code, thanks to the add-ons SDK. Not really anything heavy. Still, every new addons is another piece of code that doesn't get tested as rigorously as in-core code. (I still haven't managed to figure out which of my addons leaks in spite of the patch to cut cross-compartment wrappers on navigation) ...especially when one would think that it's just an extra if/else branch and a checkbox that already existed until recently. It'd take a lot of those to bloat out the browser. Seems a bit disingenuous considering all this talk I hear of some kind of social-integration API. Also, my experience with things like about:memory is that the Addon SDK itself is either heavy or just clutters up the memory reporting output disproportionate to how much memory it uses. Has that been fixed in the nightlies?
(In reply to Stephan Sokolow from comment #14) > In other words, my question was correct. I'm looking for a non-WONTFIX'd > feature request to split them back apart. There is no plan to do that, so you won't find any. The only related thing I may think of is bug 838681, that is about figuring the use-cases where you could want to not retain downloads history. That said, if the only reason is that PB is slow, the solution is to speed up PB. > I seriously doubt the actual user feedback specifically complained about > having checkboxes to set browsing history retention and download retention > independently. They did, though in a very low number. You can also check additional feedback on input.mozilla.org, it's public (we also get feedback through other means: irc, personal mail, forums, newsgroups, specific user research and so on...). So far, the question is open about the use-cases to keep downloads "clean" when PB works so well. > What happens if I call that while downloads are in progress? Nothing bad, will remove their history entry, the download continues regularly and disappears on shutdown. > ...and, if I'm > going to write an extension anyway, what API would I use to flush only > history that's more than 24 hours old? No way. > Also, my experience with things like about:memory is that the Addon SDK > itself is either heavy or just clutters up the memory reporting output > disproportionate to how much memory it uses. Has that been fixed in the > nightlies? The sdk afaik is now bundled with Firefox, that means add-ons don't have to bundle and load their own copy (if they wish). Btw, it's not mandatory, just suggested, you could make an add-on without using it, in a few lines of code, just looks around for examples of restartless add-ons.
(In reply to Marco Bonardo [:mak] from comment #15) > There is no plan to do that, so you won't find any. > The only related thing I may think of is bug 838681, that is about figuring > the use-cases where you could want to not retain downloads history. > That said, if the only reason is that PB is slow, the solution is to speed > up PB. > The only reason ISN'T that private browsing is slow. Even if I never did ANYTHING sensitive, I'd STILL flush my download history. (My approach to clearing history when Firefox closes is to start with everything checked and then to uncheck the ones which meet my standards for utility.) ...which reminds me. I should probably also write an addon which flushes my search and form history and then re-inserts any values I've whitelisted (such as my name, e-mail, address, etc. for online stores and registration forms). Private browsing is slow because my Firefox is just generally slow. My Firefox is generally slow because it starts out at around 1GiB resident and slowly leaks its way up until I kill it. (A slow leak I've wanted to track down for at least a year now, but I can't bear to browse with half my extensions disabled for long enough to perform a binary search and, last I checked, heavy-duty memory analysis tools bogged the browser down to unusability. Unfortunately, the profiler just says that the browser is spending far too much time GCing.) What's the recommended way to ask for help interpreting an about:memory readout these days and is the verbose or non-verbose version preferred as a starter? > > I seriously doubt the actual user feedback specifically complained about > > having checkboxes to set browsing history retention and download retention > > independently. > > They did, though in a very low number. You can also check additional > feedback on input.mozilla.org, it's public (we also get feedback through > other means: irc, personal mail, forums, newsgroups, specific user research > and so on...). Ironic. I chose to filter on "history" for all versions of Firefox and one of the five most recent results was someone else asking for browsing history and download history to support being cleared independently in shutdown. To be honest, I never submit feedback to IMO because I see it like voting except not a civic duty. (My time is too valuable to throw away by writing a message nobody will ever see except maybe as some vanishingly small percentage of a query dominated by frustrated cursing. I file bug reports instead because they actually have a chance greater than "vanishingly small" of having a different outcome than had I not.) > So far, the question is open about the use-cases to keep downloads "clean" > when PB works so well. As I see it, that's fundamentally the same question as asking "Why should we have a 'Clear history when Aurora closes' checkbox when 'Always use private browsing mode' works so well?" > > > ...and, if I'm > > going to write an extension anyway, what API would I use to flush only > > history that's more than 24 hours old? > > No way. There's always a way. I'm just looking for something less hacky than setting up a crontab entry which deletes the on-disk download history story, kills firefox, and then re-runs it to force it to release its file handle and reload from the (now nonexistant) file. ...and preferrably also less hacky than re-implementing part of your downloads storage engine so my extension can use raw SQLite3 statements from within the process that's locking the DB to flush out entries more than 24 hours old without restarting the browser. (I'm assuming that, since you've unified history and downloads, and history is stored in an SQLite database, then download history is now the same) > The sdk afaik is now bundled with Firefox, that means add-ons don't have to > bundle and load their own copy (if they wish). > Btw, it's not mandatory, just suggested, you could make an add-on without > using it, in a few lines of code, just looks around for examples of > restartless add-ons. True. How is the learning curve on those these days? (I think the last time I tried to write an addon was back around 2003 and I had no end of trouble figuring out what the APIs were and how to package up the addon. I did get something very ugly working and loadable, but I ended up giving up on it and I'm still rather wary of building addons outside Addon Builder) Also, regarding Addon SDK: 1. Is the SDK bundled in Aurora or just the nightlies? 2. Is it possible to specify the "use the browser's SDK" behaviour in Addon Builder? If so, how?
(In reply to Stephan Sokolow from comment #16) > What's the recommended way to ask for help interpreting an about:memory > readout these days and is the verbose or non-verbose version preferred as a > starter? support.mozilla.org, or file a bug attaching the verbose version in txt format. > Ironic. I chose to filter on "history" for all versions of Firefox and one > of the five most recent results was someone else asking for browsing history > and download history to support being cleared independently in shutdown. That's what I meant, though the reasons are hardly notified, most users I spoke with were not aware of various facts (that having that history doesn't hurt performances, that private browsing exists, that we already clear downloads on shutdown just not downloads history, that we never cleared downloads history in the last 10 versions, but they thought we did cause they never visited the Library). > To be honest, I never submit feedback to IMO because I see it like voting > except not a civic duty. We actually read that feedback > As I see it, that's fundamentally the same question as asking "Why should we > have a 'Clear history when Aurora closes' checkbox when 'Always use private > browsing mode' works so well?" Right, indeed there's a bug and there have been various discussions about removing Clear on shutdown. > (I'm assuming that, since you've unified history and downloads, and history > is stored in an SQLite database, then download history is now the same) yes, it's just common history. Unfortunately raw SQLite queries are always the wrong way to write to a Firefox database. 99% of the times they cause corruption. > Also, regarding Addon SDK: > 1. Is the SDK bundled in Aurora or just the nightlies? > 2. Is it possible to specify the "use the browser's SDK" behaviour in Addon > Builder? If so, how? just nightly, yes, www.oxymoronical.com/blog/2013/02/The-Add-on-SDK-is-now-in-Firefox I'm sorry but this is becoming too much of a conversation to continue in a bug tracker, I suggest you to move to mozilla.dev.extensions or irc, also to avoid spamming other cc-ed persons here.
(In reply to Marco Bonardo [:mak] from comment #17) > (In reply to Stephan Sokolow from comment #16) > > What's the recommended way to ask for help interpreting an about:memory > > readout these days and is the verbose or non-verbose version preferred as a > > starter? > > support.mozilla.org, or file a bug attaching the verbose version in txt > format. Thanks. > > > Ironic. I chose to filter on "history" for all versions of Firefox and one > > of the five most recent results was someone else asking for browsing history > > and download history to support being cleared independently in shutdown. > > That's what I meant, though the reasons are hardly notified, most users I > spoke with were not aware of various facts (that having that history doesn't > hurt performances, that private browsing exists, that we already clear > downloads on shutdown just not downloads history, that we never cleared > downloads history in the last 10 versions, but they thought we did cause > they never visited the Library). > > > To be honest, I never submit feedback to IMO because I see it like voting > > except not a civic duty. > > We actually read that feedback Hmm. The viewpoint I stated was actually a rough paraphrase of what I was told when I first encountered the feedback system in the Bugzilla guided reporting UI and asked about it. > > > As I see it, that's fundamentally the same question as asking "Why should we > > have a 'Clear history when Aurora closes' checkbox when 'Always use private > > browsing mode' works so well?" > > Right, indeed there's a bug and there have been various discussions about > removing Clear on shutdown. Oh, good god! It's like the CIA and "enhanced interrogation". "Those stories of China torturing POWs were supposed to disgust and horrify you. You weren't supposed to use them as instruction manuals." > > > (I'm assuming that, since you've unified history and downloads, and history > > is stored in an SQLite database, then download history is now the same) > > yes, it's just common history. Unfortunately raw SQLite queries are always > the wrong way to write to a Firefox database. 99% of the times they cause > corruption. Ugh. Maybe I can MacGyver some kind of hack which watches for user input (Firefox-internal reinvention of the OS screensaver API's "time since last user activity" timer?) and flushes all download history 30 minutes after the user comes back from being AFK to notice that all downloads have completed. ...or, perhaps, get Firefox un-sluggish and then force all downloading to happen via the downThemAll! extension. That has its own "clear history on shutdown" checkbox that works properly. > > > Also, regarding Addon SDK: > > 1. Is the SDK bundled in Aurora or just the nightlies? > > 2. Is it possible to specify the "use the browser's SDK" behaviour in Addon > > Builder? If so, how? > > just nightly, yes, > www.oxymoronical.com/blog/2013/02/The-Add-on-SDK-is-now-in-Firefox > > I'm sorry but this is becoming too much of a conversation to continue in a > bug tracker, I suggest you to move to mozilla.dev.extensions or irc, also to > avoid spamming other cc-ed persons here. I generally can't build up the courage to dive into unfamiliar social situations and starting or continuing a conversation in a new non-private venue qualifies unless it's following the established forms for asking for advice solving a problem from more knowledgeable peers, so, even if the instructions are "move to the #...-offtopic channe", my usual response is to just treat it like "stop conversing or I'll bring out the banhammer". Thanks anyway.
I cannot really ban anyone, it's just to be nice to other cc-ed people.
Fair enough. Feel free to e-mail me any reply you have to this message to spare them. I'm just saying that my social anxiety in unfamiliar contexts makes me fear even minor mistakes as much as temporary bans.
(In reply to Marco Bonardo [:mak] from comment #9) > with the new downloads experience this is basically fixed, > downloads are per session, while downloads history is clearly > grouped with browsing history in the UI ("Browsing and downloads > history"). > So, there's nothing we intend to do further here. Whoa whoa whoa, what's happened here: "... downloads history is clearly grouped with browsing history in the UI"? I am sorry, but that is plain wrong! The Privacy settings have two separate checkboxes for "Browsing History" and for "Download History" (to be automatically cleared on quit). I have set Firefox to keep "Browsing History", but to clean "Download History": http://fotogalerie.herr-der-ringe-film.de/data/7977/firefox20_browsing_history_vs_download_history.png The new Firefox 20 I have just upgraded to reveals that in spite of this explicit setting, Firefox has not cleared the download history at all, but kept it secretly! The checkbox for cleaning the "Download History" has no effect at all. When I want to really clean the download history, I have to use the "Clear Downloads" button in the new downloads library. I believe this is a serious betrayal of my user expectiations. When I explicitly set Firefox to clear the download history, I expect the download history not to be kept. If Firefox does not honour this particular aspect of the privacy settings, why should I trust it to honour any aspect of the privacy settings? Any bug that potentially undermines the trust in Firefox's privacy settings should be high priority. Please unset the WONTFIX status of this bug at once!
(In reply to j. 'mach' wust from comment #21) > wrong! The Privacy settings have two separate checkboxes for "Browsing > History" and for "Download History" (to be automatically cleared on quit). I > have set Firefox to keep "Browsing History", but to clean "Download History": > > http://fotogalerie.herr-der-ringe-film.de/data/7977/ > firefox20_browsing_history_vs_download_history.png That's been fixed in bug 847627, it was indeed broken. > The new Firefox 20 I have just upgraded to reveals that in spite of this > explicit setting, Firefox has not cleared the download history at all, but > kept it secretly! Not secretly at all, the options were confusing, that's exactly what I said, we grouped them to make clear what is cleared. > I believe this is a serious betrayal of my user expectiations. When I > explicitly set Firefox to clear the download history, I expect the download > history not to be kept. Yes, this is what the current version does, the previous versions were distinguishing Downloads and Downloads History, thus creating a possible privacy problem. From version 20 on downloads history is one and is basically the same as browsing history.
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