769964 - [config] Add UK ISPs ntlworld.com, virgin.net etc., Google servers don't work

Status: RESOLVED DUPLICATE of bug 1250867

(Webtools :: ISPDB Database Entries, defect)

Description

[junk_2010]

User Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Ubuntu; Linux i686; rv:13.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/13.0.1
Build ID: 20120615064004

Steps to reproduce:

New Ubuntu 12.04 install with Thunderbird 13.0.1. Went to setup up email configurations for existing accounts. This failed for some accounts due to the Mozilla database containing incorrect server and SMTP setting details.


Actual results:

In the UK virgin media.com is an amalgamation of email accounts that end in:
@virginmedia.com
@virgin.net
@ntlworld.com
@blueyonder.co.uk

All of these are actually google mail accounts, but "special" server addresses (not google mail settings) have to be used. See:
http://help.virginmedia.com/system/selfservice.controller?CONFIGURATION=1002&PARTITION_ID=1&TIMEZONE_OFFSET=&USERTYPE=1&VM_CUSTOMER_TYPE=Cable&CMD=VIEW_ARTICLE&ARTICLE_ID=105623

Email address that end in the domains listed above incorrectly bring up the standard google mail server and SMTP settings for both POP and IMAP. This is incorrect. The default google settings that Mozilla Thunderbird listed do not work and Mozilla Thunderbird cannot connect to the accounts.

Even if you manually set the server and SMTP settings correctly, Mozilla Thunderbird  still cannot connect to the accounts, and will not let you keep (store) the correct settings. 

You have to first press "Manual Config" and then on this page then press "Advanced Config". You can then set the correct server and SMTP settings and store them. Everything then works correctly.

I also don't understand on the "Manual Config" page why the "Re-test" failed with the correct settings manually entered. These settings worked correctly after I entered then after pressing "Advanced Config".

This auto-configuration is great when it works, but in this case far from intuitive when it fails.


Expected results:

1) Ideally the Mozilla database should have used the correct server and SMTP settings.
See:
http://help.virginmedia.com/system/selfservice.controller?CONFIGURATION=1002&PARTITION_ID=1&TIMEZONE_OFFSET=&USERTYPE=1&VM_CUSTOMER_TYPE=Cable&CMD=VIEW_ARTICLE&ARTICLE_ID=105623

Ideally if the automatic configuration fails the check (ie when you press "Create Account", or in "Manual Config" "Re-test") I think there really ought to be a more straightforward way to create and save the mail account with the settings you have entered if you really want to.

Comment 1

[Ludovic Hirlimann [:Usul]]

We don't have this isp on file https://autoconfig-live.mozillamessaging.com/autoconfig/v1.1/, can you create the xml file as described at https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Thunderbird/Autoconfiguration and attach it here for review ?

Comment 2

[junk_2010]

Attachment: xml file for review for ISP ntlworld.com

I have attempted to create an xml file as you requested. I have just done this for the one domain ntlworld.com for now. I don't know how to test it.
I presume a separate file will be required for each of the other three domains.

Comment 3

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

Comment on attachment 638222 [details]
xml file for review for ISP ntlworld.com

> XML Parsing Error: not well-formed

& -> & in the URLs

> <displayName>NTLWorld Mail</displayName>
> <displayShortName>ntlworld</displayShortName>

Use NTLWorld for both

In comment 0, you said:
> @virginmedia.com
> @virgin.net
> @ntlworld.com
> @blueyonder.co.uk

but the config file only has:

    <domain>ntlworld.com</domain>

Do the same hostnames also work for the other domains? (Independent of whether the ISP recommends this.) If so, just add them as additional <domain>.

Comment 4

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

> If so, just add them as additional <domain>.

If it really doesn't work, i.e. you tested it and you cannot log in to imap.virgin.net with [e-mail] and vice versa, then do:
<hostname>imap.%EMAILDOMAIN%</hostname>

Comment 5

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

Also, please add a comment <!-- bla --> that this is hosted by Google MX, but Google servers don't work.

Comment 6

[junk_2010]

Hi, I have taken the comments onboard and I will attach an edited document.

What I haven't been told is how to test the file.

Q: Do the same hostnames also work for the other domains?
A: I do not believe this is the case with my testing. I only have accounts for two of the four possible domains. I presume that there would need to be a file for each domain. I just did one to start with as I have never done this before and I do not know how to test it. I have only tested the IMAP settings.

Q: do:<hostname>imap.%EMAILDOMAIN%</hostname>
A: Sorry I don't understand this comment/request.

Comment 7

[junk_2010]

Attachment: Updated XML file for email addresses ntlworld.com

Comment 8

[junk_2010]

Just to check comment #4, would email addresses work with the other servers.

With my working @ntlworld.com account in Thunderbird I manually changed the server settings

First I tried:
  imap.googlemail.com
This failed when I tried to connect with the message:
  Login to server imap.googlemail.com failed

Then I tried:
  imap.virginmedia.com
This worked.
I then edit the SMTP server to:
  smtp.virginmedia.com
This also worked.

So I can say that for me @ntlworld.com email addresses do work with @virginmedia.com server settings.
I cannot comment on the @blueyonder.co.uk and @virgin.net addresses as I have no way of trying these.

I guess this means you will want me to do something different with the file :-)
Change its name and its contents? Please advise.

Comment 9

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

> So I can say that for me @ntlworld.com email addresses do work with @virginmedia.com server settings.

Thanks for testing this. I can take it from here.

Comment 11

[William Foster]

I have the same problem. Setting up imap email for my ntlworld address on thunderbird has become a nightmare. I have to set it up manually.  I have to use Linux to access the internet, because since moving home I am obliged to use a laptop, which originally had Windows8 64bit installed. Microsoft issued "free2 update to windows 8.1" This failed to install & went into a perpetual loop of trying to install then failing.  I then installed my favourite distro of Linux on it i.e. Open Suse 13.1. I have just been playing about with installing a copy of Windows XP Pro on Oracle Virtualbox, Outlook express works on that No real problem there in setting up imap email.  
Although I have purchased the Repair disks for this Acer Aspire v3-571, they do not work , and as I recall it took me a long long time to remove all the yucky bundleware that came on this laptop I found I actually hate Windows 8. 
I greatly appreciate the efforts of the mozilla foundation in providing free software, but please do something about the automatic email configuration in thunderbird: great when it works, but a real nobrainer when it doesn't.  

The correct settings for email addresses at ntlworld are:
imap.ntlworld.com port=993 secure login =SSL/TLS

Comment 12

[echo4]

Attachment: virginmedia.com.xml

Comment 13

[echo4]

Attachment: virginmedia.com.xml

Comment 14

[echo4]

Attachment: ntlworld.com.xml

Comment 15

[echo4]

Attachment: virgin.net.xml

Comment 16

[echo4]

Attachment: blueyonder.co.uk.xml

Comment 17

[echo4]

Config files on harddisk, in installdir/isp/emailaddressdomain.xml , e.g. C:/Program Files/Mozilla/Thunderbird/isp/example.com.xml

Comment 18

[echo4]

Attachment: virginmedia.com(ntlworld_virgin.net_blueyonder).xml

virginmedia.com(ntlworld_virgin.net_blueyonder).xml

I don't know if this file will work it is based on this file

http://autoconfig.btinternet.com/mail/config-v1.1.xml

Comment 19

[echo4]

To test the file virginmedia.com(ntlworld_virgin.net_blueyonder).xml

you will need 4 copies of the file and renaming each file with one domain name

virginmedia.com   (virginmedia.com.xml)
ntlworld.com      (ntlworld.com.xml)
virgin.net.com    (virgin.net.xml)
blueyonder.co.uk  (blueyonder.co.uk.xml)


then copy the files to installdir/isp/

[Windows]
 C:/Program Files/Mozilla Thunderbird/isp/virginmedia.com.xml
 C:/Program Files/Mozilla Thunderbird/isp/ntlworld.com.xml
 C:/Program Files/Mozilla Thunderbird/isp/virgin.net.xml
 C:/Program Files/Mozilla Thunderbird/isp/blueyonder.co.uk.xml
   or
 C:/Program Files (x86)/Mozilla Thunderbird/isp/virginmedia.com.xml
 C:/Program Files (x86)/Mozilla Thunderbird/isp/ntlworld.com.xml
 C:/Program Files (x86)/Mozilla Thunderbird/isp/virgin.net.xml
 C:/Program Files (x86)/Mozilla Thunderbird/isp/blueyonder.co.uk.xml

Comment 20

[echo4]

virginmedia.com(ntlworld_virgin.net_blueyonder).xml
  I don't know if this file will work it is based on this file
    http://autoconfig.btinternet.com/mail/config-v1.1.xml

  To test this file you will need 4 copies of the file and renaming each file with one domain name

    virginmedia.com   (virginmedia.com.xml)
    ntlworld.com      (ntlworld.com.xml)
    virgin.net.com    (virgin.net.xml)
    blueyonder.co.uk  (blueyonder.co.uk.xml)

  then copy the files to tb-install-dir/isp/


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thunderbird default install directory [ installdir / tb-install-dir ]

 [Windows]
    Examples of default installation directories: 
      C:\Program Files\Mozilla Thunderbird\
      C:\Program Files (x86)\Mozilla Thunderbird\

  [Linux]
    Examples of default installation directories (64-bit Linux):
       Thunderbird	/usr/lib64/thunderbird-<version>
         For example:   /usr/lib64/thunderbird-2.0.0.21

     The installation directory path may vary depending on the distribution if you use a package 
      manager to install the application from their repository.


  [Mac OS X]
    Examples of default installation directories (folders):
     Thunderbird	/Applications/Thunderbird.app

    To open one of these folders, Ctrl-click it and select Show Package Contents. If you simply 
     click it, you will start the application.


  Source: http://kb.mozillazine.org/Installation_directory

Comment 21

[echo4]

See https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1250867 for attached config files.

Note: Virgin Media still lists each domain (virginmedia.com|ntlworld.com|blueyonder.co.uk|virgin.net) with different settings see https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1250867 for Documentation links.

Comment 22

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

> Virgin Media still lists each domain (virginmedia.com|ntlworld.com|blueyonder.co.uk|virgin.net)
> with different settings see [...their] Documentation.

It's common for branding purposes for companies to do that. Technically, it's often not necessary.

If one hostname works for all brands, we use only one config (the best possible, and that of the primary brand). That avoids that we keep 5 configs for each ISP, making our live a lot easier.

Comment 23

[Andrew Sutherland [:asuth] (he/him)]

(In reply to Ben Bucksch (:BenB) from comment #22)
> It's common for branding purposes for companies to do that. Technically,
> it's often not necessary.
> 
> If one hostname works for all brands, we use only one config (the best
> possible, and that of the primary brand). That avoids that we keep 5 configs
> for each ISP, making our live a lot easier.

I've done investigation for this on bug 1250867 and the short story seems to be that we need different entries for each domain, more details there.  I am duping over to that bug since the bits mentioning Google no longer seem to be relevant.