801737 - Discussion Forum: mozilla.dev.metro

Status: RESOLVED FIXED

(mozilla.org :: Discussion Forums, task)

Description

[Allison Naaktgeboren :ally]

List Name: fx-metro
List Admin: [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], 

Short Description:
the public mailing list of the firefox for windows metro (modern ui)

Long Description:


Justification / Special Instructions:

Comment 1

[Gervase Markham [:gerv]]

A few questions... :-)

Why do we need a separate mailing list for the metro work? I would create one if the dev.apps.firefox list was overwhelmed with Metro stuff but, looking back over the last few weeks, that doesn't seem to be the case. What makes this feature need its own list?

Also, aren't Microsoft moving away from using the name 'Metro'? What is the replacement name?

If we were to do this, the correct place in the hierarchy would be mozilla.dev.apps.firefox.metro ([e-mail]).

Gerv

Comment 2

[Allison Naaktgeboren :ally]

Well, it isn't a feature, it is a new product in its own right with a new team to go with it. :) I'm surprised at the pushback, as many teams have their own mailing list.

The reason I imagine you haven't seen dev.app.firefox overwhelmed is because all the coordination has been taking place in private email to the growing cc list of people involved. In addition to being error prone & unwieldy, it is also not open.

iirc, the official name is now 'windows store style' apps.

I am indifferent to the name. I made one up because the auto-form made me put one in.

Comment 3

[Gervase Markham [:gerv]]

"Pushback" is perhaps a bit strong; a large proportion of lists we create, in response to people saying "we have a bit team which needs to coordinate", don't actually get used, and end up simply confusing people. So it's important that we try and weed those out before they start.

I entirely agree that open is better than closed. :-)

"Windows Store Style" is a horrible name. I suspect people will still call it Metro. 

Having rethought it, this area of the hierarchy is a bit twisted anyway. Fennec is mozilla.dev.platforms.mobile, rather than dev.apps.firefox.something. And b2g and gaia are higher up, as mozilla.dev.(b2g|gaia). 

Let's go for mozilla.dev.metro; simplicity is better. Over to server-ops.

Gerv

Comment 4

[Mike Connor [:mconnor]]

Gerv, I believe this was meant as a mailman distribution list for the core Metro team, not really a newsgroup in the vein of d-a-f.  Rather than having an internal distribution alias within MoCo it seemed like a better idea to have a mailman list that could be read/subscribed outside of Mozilla.

I think a newsgroup for a project ML is overkill.

Comment 5

[Gervase Markham [:gerv]]

mburns: can you hold off doing this for now while we sort out what we are doing?

mconnor: 10.46pm here; will reply tomorrow :-)

Gerv

Comment 6

[Gervase Markham [:gerv]]

mconnor: what we are creating is a mailing list which can be read and subscribed to outside Mozilla. It also happens to be web-accessible via Google Groups, and also via news for people who prefer that access method. I can't see any advantage in saying "this particular one is a mailing list only". That just makes it an exception to the normal process, which is more work for IT, and confusing for users who expect consistency. In the past, we've gone in the opposite direction, moving things which are only lists (or only Google Groups) to the standard system.

If a public Mozilla venue is needed to discuss Metro stuff, then this is the right way to go. 

Gerv

Comment 7

[Martin Best (:mbest)]

Hey, I'm helping with PM support for the project and saw the thread so I thought I would jump in.

1. The list needs to be public.
2. The list needs a record, so google groups is great
3. We do need it to be it's own thing, Metro is proving to have a considerable amount of specific requirements and warrants being treated as a full product.
3a. We have a product designation in Bugzilla already setup.

Finally, I'd rather focus on getting this done quickly so standard is good.  I currently have a long list of people to CC each time we send out an email and that list is growing fast.

Current team roster is available here: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox/Metro

Comment 8

[Mike Connor [:mconnor]]

I think Gerv's concerns are overstated, but I'm not going to hold this up for that argument, so let's just get this rolling.  mburns, can you roll with this ASAP?

Comment 9

[Michael Burns [:mburns]]

Can do.

https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-metro

Giganews will take a day or two, Google Groups should pick it up this Monday.

Comment 10

[Martin Best (:mbest)]

Thanks for the fast turn around.  Much appreciated.  Already making use of it and have everyone signed up.

Comment 11

[Martin Best (:mbest)]

Hey guys, we are having an issue with this mailing list.  Seems it's bouncing.  Can someone have a look at it or give us on update on status.

Comment 12

[Allison Naaktgeboren :ally]

mburns, is the list properly enabled? :mbest & I keep getting the following error when we try to post to it:


<[e-mail]>: host
    mailman2.mail.corp.phx1.mozilla.com[10.20.77.52] said: 550 5.1.1
    <[e-mail]>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in
    local recipient table (in reply to RCPT TO command)

mbrubeck reports posting, but that it fails silently (no returned mail, no error, but no message)

Comment 13

[Michael Burns [:mburns]]

The list does not appear to have been enabled by GigaNews, despite an email last week suggesting it had. I've confirmed and forwarded this to message on to them. They should respond shortly.

Sorry for the trouble.

Comment 14

[Martin Best (:mbest)]

Wanted to check in to see if we can do anything to help move this along?

Comment 15

[Mike Connor [:mconnor]]

We're at 2+ weeks now.  If we can't get this fixed by Monday, we should just go back to the original idea and create a mailman list on mail.mozilla.org and be done with it? This is a time-critical issue.

Comment 16

[Dumitru Gherman [:dumitru]]

One problem is that Google didn't pick up the list because the cron script that generates https://lists.mozilla.org/newsgroups.txt seems to be missing :(

I fixed this, ran the script, and in the next days Google will create the group.

I also checked the NNTP list, and appears to be there.

Since our list is already created in Mailman, the only piece missing now is Google's group.

Comment 17

[Allison Naaktgeboren :ally]

:dumitru, does this mean it will be functional by monday?

Comment 18

[Dumitru Gherman [:dumitru]]

(In reply to :Ally Naaktgeboren from comment #17)
> :dumitru, does this mean it will be functional by monday?

Since this is something out of our control, we cannot say when it will be functional.
I can check on Sunday and let you know.

Comment 19

[Allison Naaktgeboren :ally]

I would appreciate that. thanks!

Comment 20

[Allison Naaktgeboren :ally]

sadly, the list is still not functional

Comment 21

[Martin Best (:mbest)]

Agreed, as this list is current still not up. I think it's time to go to the backup plan so we can get information following more easily.

Comment 22

[Martin Best (:mbest)]

Really would have like to see this today.  Since the ETA has passed on the fall back option, can someone give us a new expectation around when we can get just the mailing list working?

Comment 23

[Michael Burns [:mburns]]

https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/metro/

I've created a [e-mail] mailing list, due to sync issues with Google Groups.


As this list should have been picked up yesterday at the latest, I am sending a follow-up email to the GGroups admins to find out what went wrong.