979607 - Improve flow of AAQ, eg. after picking "Get community support" on https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/products/thunderbird

Status: RESOLVED WONTFIX

(support.mozilla.org :: Questions, task)

Description

[Wayne Mery (:wsmwk)]

This is jarring enough for users that we should fix this. 
And the problem is not limited to Thunderbird. (see the end)

On Thunderbird's main support page https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/products/thunderbird picking "Get community support" sends user to https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/get-community-support which is firefox-centric and jarring to the user because:

1. it has a firefox logo at the top
2. if editing tools is open (and for some reason it WAS open for me, even though I wasn't logged in to sumo), the verbiage is firefox
3. The links below "editing tools" are all firefox-centric

This is DESPITE the fact that clicking "Ask a question" sends user, correctly, to Thunderbird-centric https://support.mozilla.org/questions/new/thunderbird ... so CLEARLY https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/get-community-support "knows" the user came from a Thunderbird page, and wants Thunderbird info

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/get-community-support in this case needs to be Thunderbird-centric

Perhaps there is already a bug on this???  I say this because I see a similar problem for mobile (but it's worse).  

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/products/mobile, click get community support, gives same results as above.  What's worse is click "ask" in https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/get-community-support forces user to unnecessarily pick from "Which product would you like to post a question about?" (Hey, you should know I am a mobile user)

(The case where a user accesses https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/get-community-support without a prior referred link is fine, because clicking "Ask a question" prompts a user with "Which product would you like to post a question about?")

Comment 1

[Kadir Topal [:atopal]]

Thanks for the report, Wayne.

1. We could create a generic Mozilla logo that is shown on all pages that are relevant to all products.
2. I don't know what you mean with "the verbiage is firefox". I can't see anything Firefox related there. Can you elaborate?
3. If you mean the topics, that's related to problem 1. All articles have to be assigned to one product. Those links should go away, if we assign these articles to a generic Mozilla product.

Ricky, do you see an issue with creating a generic Mozilla product?

CC'ing Madalina and Joni.

Comment 2

[Ricky Rosario [:rrosario, :r1cky]]

(In reply to Kadir Topal [:atopal] from comment #1)
> Ricky, do you see an issue with creating a generic Mozilla product?

That's an interesting idea. It will have implications in all the product-based workflows and notifications we have added for l10n, etc.

Maybe we can just say that all the How to contribute articles are going to have a different header. Maybe just not render that product section at all?

Comment 3

[Matt]

(In reply to Kadir Topal [:atopal] from comment #1)
> Thanks for the report, Wayne.
> 
> 1. We could create a generic Mozilla logo that is shown on all pages that
> are relevant to all products.
But this page is not relevant to all, or perhaps I should say needs modification for some.  In the case of Thunderbird we need to request that they include troubleshooting information, anti virus etc.  My mail does not work is difficult to answer as it is, let alone in the absence of any settings. 
> 2. I don't know what you mean with "the verbiage is firefox". I can't see
> anything Firefox related there. Can you elaborate?

I don't know about the verbiage,  but the stream your on has a Thunderbird logo.  The next page has an orange Firefox logo.  My first though is where did I go wrong. I do not think changing the orange for a green Mozilla is going to help.

A simple modification to change the URL in Get community support to the last part of the page URL would fix the issue,  it would however mean a document for each product  Alternatively the page loaded needs to draw on the last page for it's logo.  A better but more complex solution, but it requires the support of showfor [Product], would be logo and product specific content based on the [product] of the calling page

Comment 4

[Kadir Topal [:atopal]]

Matt, Wayne, I understand that people will need to provide different information for Thunderbird, but I'm not sure this page is the best place to explain that. By the time people reach the final page of the "Ask A Question" flow, they will have forgotten most of the text on this page anyway. How about adding that information to the page where actually ask people to give us details about their question?

If we can go with one community-support page for all articles, we can follow Ricky's suggestion and just remove anything product-specific from the page. The benefit of having one article is lower maintenance costs in English, and fewer articles to localize.

Comment 5

[Wayne Mery (:wsmwk)]

Part A.  I'm cool with solutions that offer a good experience for Thunderbird users. If that means making https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/get-community-support more generic that's fine with me.  So you could greatly simplify and eliminate "about Firefox, Firefox for Android, Firefox OS, Thunderbird, or Webmaker" and "Learn the Basics: get started ..."

However, I don't know how that fits in how Roland sees the big picture flow for Thunderbird - where users should initially land, what hot topics we want them to see, etc.  We recently had discussions about this, and I haven't mapped it out myself.


Part B ... of comment 0 is we should to be kind to the user - track the click path and act accordingly.  For example if user starts at any SUMO page of firefox OS, and thence to https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/get-community-support then clicking "ask" should take the user to https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/new/firefox-os  and not be so lame (I'm not trying to be unkind) as to ask what product s/he wants. 

Different story if the user lands cold on https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/get-community-support or comes from a non-product specific SUMO page ... entirely appropriate to put them on https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/new

Comment 6

[sfhowes]

This problem has become worse in the last week, and it was already bad.  I suggest everyone press F1 in TB and see if they can find a path to the TB support forum without asking a question.  More details here:

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/forums/contributors/710205

Comment 7

[Roland Tanglao needinfo please :rolandtanglao, :mohnkuchen, :adobo, :sinigang, :roland]

It sounds like Thunderbird folks don't like the whole ask a question flow (AAQ) in SUMO in general because other than showing Firefox logos, Thunderbird isn't treated by SUMO any differently than other non Firefox products. The AAQ in the SUMO forums tries to show relevant people knowledge base articles first so that they don't have to file a question if the articles have an answer and if that doesn't help AAQ then displays Forum responses & KB articles based on  what the user enters as their question title. AAQ & SUMO in general never shows users a huge list of for questions (unless they know the magic url for that product e.g. https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/mobile for Android and for Thunderbird https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/thunderbird ) for that product which is what Thunderbird contributors expect based on Get Satisfaction.
 
It seems like Thunderbird contributors like Wayne and sfhowes want:

1. a way (a cookie, a session, something else?) to know we came from a particular product (like  hitting Help aka F1 in thunderbird or the Help Menu item in Firefox or  Firefox for Android) and then based on that product, only present: i) recent solved questions for that product and ii) if the user wants to ask a forum question, start the "Ask a Question" process with that product filled in 

2. a quick link or some other way for users to easily get to the questions for a specific product based on which product or product specific link users came from


Wayne and sfhowes does that summarize the issues you see?

Comment 8

[sfhowes]

Here's an example of what I would consider a satisfactory sequence:

1) Press F1 in TB and land on this page:

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/products/thunderbird

Perhaps remove the Ask A Question link from this page.

2) Click on 'Get Community support' and go to this page:

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/thunderbird?show=all

At the top of that page, below the dashboard, include 'Forum rules and guidelines':

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/forum-rules-and-guidelines

and 'How do I create a screenshot of my problem?'

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/how-do-i-create-screenshot-my-problem

I don't see any value in the "32 questions in the last 24 hours...." declaration or the Total Questions or the thermometer.  Remove the clutter.  I never pay any attention to the category listed for each question or the tags, but maybe others do.  Same for 'Votes this week'.  Do we really need to know the exact second a post was made?

Add an 'Additional Resources' link to the top dashboard that expands to show links to Mozilla support newsgroups and Mozillazine forums.  The 'Ask a Question' link on the dashboard should go directly to this page: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/new/thunderbird

Comment 9

[sfhowes]

Forgot to mention that obviously the 'Forum rules and guidelines' and 'How do I create a screenshot of my problem?' pages should have TB logos and sidebar links to TB articles, not Firefox.

Comment 10

[John Hesling [:John99] (NeedInfo me)]

I wonder if this is better as a meta bug for  tracking/research with an improved title and the intention of specific bugs being spun off ? 

Or an alternative is to consider making  use of the existing Bug 939779 for the integration of Thunderbird.

Better still we keep adding fora and not creating suitable guidelines or discussing the implications, do we need a tracker for all of the new fora,and maybe they are now community owned items  as is mentioned in David's post 
< Thunderbird, Persona and "Community Ownership" products 
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/forums/contributors/710099

Comment 11

[Wayne Mery (:wsmwk)]

(In reply to Roland Tanglao :rolandtanglao from comment #7)
> Wayne and sfhowes does that summarize the issues you see?

For me, yes.

Anything beyond that I think should be in different bugs. I think we should move on what can be done quickly, and not let the perfect get in the way good (or however that goes)

Comment 12

[Wayne Mery (:wsmwk)]

(In reply to Wayne Mery (:wsmwk) from comment #11)
> (In reply to Roland Tanglao :rolandtanglao from comment #7)
> > Wayne and sfhowes does that summarize the issues you see?
> 
> For me, yes.
> 
> Anything beyond that I think should be in different bugs. I think we should
> move on what can be done quickly, and not let the perfect get in the way
> good (or however that goes)

I don't know if I disagree with sfhowes' suggestion because I haven't worked through it - but it sounds like a substantial change to the SUMO flow.

I'm rather interested to see how modest changes work within SUMO's current flow SUMO, because I think the user is well guided - although the process is a bit lengthy, with many steps. Presumably the SUMO folks have done studies and/or have metrics to show that length doesn't cause users to bail part way through the process without getting an answer or asking a question?

In other words, although Thunderbird's workflow prior to coming to SUMO was much shorter, I think we will want work within SUMO's existing workflow, but of course improve it as much as possible so that all products benefit. (

So to clarify, I like the flow to be
- Thunderbird
- F1
- https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/products/thunderbird
- https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/get-community-support which has the community stuff sfhowes mentions (but remove the stuff I previously mentioned) 
- (skip this if we at some earlier point in the flow know which product the person wants help with - hitting F1 in a product is an example) https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/new
- https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/new/thunderbird

Do we need a meta bug - I'm not sure. But let's first decide on the proposed solution?

Two other points 
- do we need at some step need to reiterate guidelines and "how to do screen shot"?
- I of course have a sumo account already but I am not logged in. At https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/new/thunderbird/other/form?search=abc&step=aaq-register "Before you continue, please create a support account" is prominent and my username and password are filled in on the register form, but doesn't offer a sign in button, except at the top. This seems wrong.

Comment 13

[Roland Tanglao needinfo please :rolandtanglao, :mohnkuchen, :adobo, :sinigang, :roland]

(In reply to Wayne Mery (:wsmwk) from comment #12)

Still mulling over sfhowes and wsmwk's comments above so I'll do the easy stuff first :-)

> Two other points 
> - do we need at some step need to reiterate guidelines and "how to do screen
> shot"?

yes i think this needs to be reiterated and revamped in AAQ in the long term; not sure how at the moment

> - I of course have a sumo account already but I am not logged in. At
> https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/new/thunderbird/other/
> form?search=abc&step=aaq-register "Before you continue, please create a
> support account" is prominent and my username and password are filled in on
> the register form, but doesn't offer a sign in button, except at the top.
> This seems wrong.

Isn't "I already have an account" at the bottom sufficient? (see https://www.flickr.com/photos/roland/13884461366/ )

Comment 14

[Roland Tanglao needinfo please :rolandtanglao, :mohnkuchen, :adobo, :sinigang, :roland]

(In reply to Wayne Mery (:wsmwk) from comment #12)

> So to clarify, I like the flow to be
> - Thunderbird
> - F1
> - https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/products/thunderbird
> - https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/get-community-support which has the
> community stuff sfhowes mentions (but remove the stuff I previously
> mentioned) 

by "community stuff sfhowes mentions", what exactly do you mean Wayne?

Comment 15

[Wayne Mery (:wsmwk)]

(In reply to Roland Tanglao :rolandtanglao from comment #14)
> (In reply to Wayne Mery (:wsmwk) from comment #12)
> 
> > So to clarify, I like the flow to be
> > - Thunderbird
> > - F1
> > - https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/products/thunderbird
> > - https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/get-community-support which has the
> > community stuff sfhowes mentions (but remove the stuff I previously
> > mentioned) 
> 
> by "community stuff sfhowes mentions", what exactly do you mean Wayne?

comment 8 "Add an 'Additional Resources' link to the top dashboard that expands to show links to Mozilla support newsgroups and Mozillazine forums."

Comment 16

[Wayne Mery (:wsmwk)]

(In reply to Roland Tanglao :rolandtanglao from comment #13)
> (In reply to Wayne Mery (:wsmwk) from comment #12)
> > - I of course have a sumo account already but I am not logged in. At
> > https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/new/thunderbird/other/
> > form?search=abc&step=aaq-register "Before you continue, please create a
> > support account" is prominent and my username and password are filled in on
> > the register form, but doesn't offer a sign in button, except at the top.
> > This seems wrong.
> 
> Isn't "I already have an account" at the bottom sufficient? (see
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/roland/13884461366/ )

Apparently not, because I totally missed it.  I observe:

1. "Before you continue, please create a support account" is so prominent that it is easy to perceive that nothing else on the page is being offered as a competing choice

2. The page doesn't word nor organize the items "I already have an account" and "create a support account" as being competing choices.

3. "I already have an account" is far removed in vertical distance from "create an account" such that it was not visible on the first screen on my laptop - I probably did not scroll down

4. And finally, perhaps fatally, "I already have an account" is blue text on a blue background - REALLY?? (sorry - but I think a proofreader missed this)

Comment 17

[Roland Tanglao needinfo please :rolandtanglao, :mohnkuchen, :adobo, :sinigang, :roland]

Wayne wrote: 
QUOTE
4. And finally, perhaps fatally, "I already have an account" is blue text on a blue background - REALLY?? (sorry - but I think a proofreader missed this)
END QUOTE

Using the Colorzilla Firefox extension on https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/new/thunderbird/download-and-install/form?search=i+can%27t+send+email&step=aaq-register

A. The text "I already have an account" is: blue or to be pedantically precise :-) #5010B9 http://www.color-hex.com/color/5010b9

B. The background is light white #E4E9EB http://www.color-hex.com/color/e4e9eb
i'd prefer it's white but it works for me.

Wayne perhaps your monitor colour is not correct  or am i missing something?

Comment 18

[Roland Tanglao needinfo please :rolandtanglao, :mohnkuchen, :adobo, :sinigang, :roland]

(In reply to Wayne Mery (:wsmwk) from comment #15)

A. Current:

1. Thunderbird -> F1 (or select Help->Thunderbird Help) which goes to https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/products/thunderbird which has a Thunderbird logo
2. click "Get Community Support" which goes to https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/get-community-support which is a page with a Firefox logo and links to
i) https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/forum-rules-and-guidelines which has a Firefox logo
ii) https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/how-do-i-create-screenshot-my-problem which also has a Firefox logo
3. click "Ask a question" and that leads to a generic for all product page instead of just a Firefox one at https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/new
4. click on Thunderbird and you finally get to start asking a new Thunderbird question

B. Wayne's proposal (same as A. above except delete step A3 since you know you are coming from Thunderbird via F1 and change Firefox logo to Thunderbird logo in  A2i) and A2ii) (and change any content that mentions Firefox to Thunderbird)

1. Thunderbird -> F1 (or select Help->Thunderbird Help) which goes to https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/products/thunderbird which has a Thunderbird logo
2. click "Get Community Support" which goes to https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/get-community-support which is a page with a Thunderbird logo and links to
i) https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/forum-rules-and-guidelines which has a Thunderbird logo
ii) https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/how-do-i-create-screenshot-my-problem which also has a Thunderbird logo
3. click on Thunderbird and you finally get to start asking a new Thunderbird question


Wayne, does B. work (assuming we can implement and agree on B with sumo-dev.)? is that a fair summary?

Comment 19

[Wayne Mery (:wsmwk)]

Attachment: SUMO - Register or sign in.png

(In reply to Roland Tanglao :rolandtanglao from comment #17)
> Wayne wrote: 
> QUOTE
> 4. And finally, perhaps fatally, "I already have an account" is blue text on
> a blue background - REALLY?? (sorry - but I think a proofreader missed this)
> END QUOTE
> 
> Using the Colorzilla Firefox extension on
> https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/new/thunderbird/download-and-
> install/form?search=i+can%27t+send+email&step=aaq-register
> 
> A. The text "I already have an account" is: blue or to be pedantically
> precise :-) #5010B9 http://www.color-hex.com/color/5010b9
> 
> B. The background is light white #E4E9EB
> http://www.color-hex.com/color/e4e9eb
> i'd prefer it's white but it works for me.
> 
> Wayne perhaps your monitor colour is not correct  or am i missing something?

I'm on a dell laptop with a glossy monitor. 

Both text and background colors vary depending on where you put the dropper. 
One of the background readings I get is #E4E8EB
One of the text readings I get is #3475B1

Because of the thin text font that seems to be so pervasive these days, for me the text shows nothing as dark as http://www.color-hex.com/color/5010b9

Comment 20

[Wayne Mery (:wsmwk)]

(In reply to Roland Tanglao :rolandtanglao from comment #18)
> Wayne, does B. work (assuming we can implement and agree on B with
> sumo-dev.)? is that a fair summary?

I think so

Comment 21

[Wayne Mery (:wsmwk)]

I'd value Matt's feedback again. What do you think?  Good enough to move this forward?

Comment 22

[Matt]

Attachment: loginSuggestion.png

I think we are going in the right direction,  but the big issue here is as I see it logos and auto fill.

SUMO needs it's own site icon and logo.  It is support.mozilla.org now not support.firefox.org.  This need carries over to the page icons as well.  I can not begin to guess the number of times I have clicked the wrong tab between forum and kb because every tab has the same icon.

So my personal preference would be the SUMO logo on B.2.i and B.2.ii not Thunderbird or Firefox.

Other points from going through the process to examine the suggested solution.  I logged out of SUMO. I rarely do that because SUMO is about the only site in the world that does not remember my username for me.

The login process is about as clumsy as we can make it.  The attachment is a modified version of what is there on the page and follows what the rest of the web have been doing for years now. 

But I would be interested in conversion rates and each point of the current work flow. I think we keep sticking articles and threads in front of people and really more just close the tab than proceed is my feeling.

Comment 23

[Wayne Mery (:wsmwk)]

anje, you are pretty active in SUMO ... any additional thoughts from your point of view?

Comment 24

[Anje]

Sorry for a delay, but I've giving this some thought.

F1 / Help > Help Contents to get to first page is ok. 
It shows the Thunderbird logo and here: Home > Thunderbird.
This a clear thunderbird page.
It would be useful for any buttons/clickable link eg; 'Email' etc to auto open in a new tab.
It would be more useful if the 'Thunderbird free download' link went to this address:
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/all/
I would also like to see a box saying 'Search Previously asked questions'. If this is here then it will reduce the need to produce so many extra webpages that people would have to go through.
This 'Search Previously asked questions' could take you directly to the forum - not logged in- and the 'Search Mozilla Support' located top right, needs to say 'Search Thunderbird Support'. It should also be much longer and more prominent. 
The background colour should not look like it is greyed out - more like a text box you can type in.

After clicking on 'Get Community support'
The page is misleading Home > Firefox > Get community support > Get community support
It also clearly shows the firefox logo 
So this page is misleading.

It should say:
Home > Thunderbired > Get community support
It should only display the Thunderbird logo

The text at the top which currently says:
'Ask a question about Firefox, Firefox for Android, Firefox OS, Webmaker, or Thunderbird in the community support forum.'
it should say:
'Ask a question about Thunderbird in the community support forum.'
this would create more space on the page.
This page sould be about offering guidelines and logging on to ask a question.
The info on guidelines and posting images is good info.
The additional resources section is now unnecessary because access to forum (not logged in) has been made available on the first F1 help page.
OR if not added on F1 page this should be above the current 'Ask a question' section not below, as the intention is, if you cannot locate any previously answered responses to resolve your issue then ask a question.

If you need to ask a question then you do need to logon/register first, so
The 'Ask a Question' button needs to say 'Logon/Register to Ask a Question' and be in a larger font.
It is also a button - but the extreme pale colour of button is hard to see.
OR
I would propose an even better solution :
the logon form should be already presented on same page and needs completing - with a 'Logon/Register to Ask a Question' button
this would reduce the extra pages pops up etc.
there should be plenty of room if the  'additional resources' was removed.

Currently the  'Ask a question' button goes to here;
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/new
This should be completely removed as it is wrong in all aspects and totally superfluous; an additional unnecessary click and page.
It has now gone completely away from Thunderbird and requests you reselect the product.
which finally takes you to here;
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/new/thunderbird
You should be immediately able to ask a question having already Logged in.
When asking a question you should be asked:
What OS ?
What version of Thunderbird ?
Choose a category from a drop down list to use reduced space.
Ability to add image(s) to offer clarity to question.
A 'Post my question' button

All the requested info needs to be selected before posting and then posted with the question.

showing potential answers is not necessary as this option has already been made available prior to asking a question. 
By the time people need to ask a question, that is what they want to do.

So in total you only go through 3 pages max.

-------

All users of Thunderbird understand the Thunderbird logo. 
People who offer additional support with webpages, creating articles etc, they understand the SUMO logo.
This link should be available via Profiles; it is not needed for general help with Thunderbird.

Comment 25

[John Hesling [:John99] (NeedInfo me)]

Is this thread getting overtaken by other events bug 1173515

Comment 26

[Seburo]

Closed as per https://blog.mozilla.org/sumo/2019/06/07/sumo-platform-roadmap/