981996 - Improve the exceeded number of answers error messages so that it conveys useful information.

Status: RESOLVED FIXED

(support.mozilla.org :: Questions, task, P4)

Description

[Matt]

I am sitting here answering questions on the forum when I get this message.

You have exceeded the number of answers that can be posted in a given amount of time. Please try again shortly. 

Now that would have to be one of those great statements.  Everything it says is 100% correct and 100% unhelpful.

I apparent have exceeded some limit (I don't recall anyone telling me there was one when I signed up.) and after searching Bugzilla I assume it is introduced in Bug 785851, but if it is one minute it is clearly broken as I have sat here writing this for more than a minute.

How long do I leave my browser window open waiting to click reply: for 1 few minutes, an hour, 24 hours.  Unfortunately it does not say.  Nor does it say what the limit is or where I can find more information about this.

So 100% accurate and 100% useless, and getting in my way.

I did try and look through the bugs attendant to Bug 783262 to try and establish why long after the event the message continues, but apparently I am not authorised.

Comment 1

[Matt]

Any idea when I might get posting privileges back Moses?

Comment 2

[moses]

What do you mean?

Comment 3

[moses]

Oh, sorry. It took me a while to figure it out. It's been some night.

All I know is that this is a limit set by SUMOdev or Kitsune and is used to control the amount of posts a user posts in a single time-frame. I haven't seen anything like that back when I was posting. I did maybe 5-10 answers in a 5 minute time-frame back when I was doing Forum Support. We might actually need one of the SUMOdev members to give information on this. IIRC, there was a thread in the Contributors or Moderators forum about this but I can't seem to find it now.

Requesting info from either Ricky or Mike.

Comment 4

[moses]

By the way, approximately, how fast are you posting replies? Like I said, the system flags you within a single time frame, but I'm curious to know how fast you are posting your replies.

Comment 5

[Matt]

(In reply to Moses Bermea [:bermea/:mjb] from comment #4)
> By the way, approximately, how fast are you posting replies? Like I said,
> the system flags you within a single time frame, but I'm curious to know how
> fast you are posting your replies.

I am a crappy typist and the original post was four paragraphs.  Probably 5 minutes minimum on that topic. Probably more. A couple prior were quick with basically only a URL required but I doubt I exceeded one per minute at all.  I have to press the back button twice just to get back to the list I am working with and I do have to read the topic..

I just tried to answer another topic... nada.  I am in violation of this silly limit still.

Comment 6

[Ricky Rosario [:rrosario, :r1cky]]

Hey Matt, I agree 100% that we need to fix the message to something useful. I think the message needs to inform the contributor what to do when they hit the limit.

In the meantime, I added you to a special group for trusted contributors that isn't rate limited.

Comment 7

[Wayne Mery (:wsmwk)]

I often respond to issues in a series of tabs which are similar to each other, and so have been known to post at a rate of at least a reply per minute.
Are there categories of contributor that are exempt from the limit?

Comment 8

[Ricky Rosario [:rrosario, :r1cky]]

(In reply to Wayne Mery (:wsmwk) from comment #7)
> I often respond to issues in a series of tabs which are similar to each
> other, and so have been known to post at a rate of at least a reply per
> minute.
> Are there categories of contributor that are exempt from the limit?

not really. We are just trying to block the spammers out and we whitelist the productive contributors like you. You should be all set now :)

Comment 9

[Michael Cooper [:mythmon]]

Clearing myself from needs-info, since it was "from either Ricky or Mike" and Ricky answered.

Comment 10

[Andrew Truong [:feer56] [:andrewtruong] [:atruong]]

Please see https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/forums/contributors/709149?page=3#post-54943 and Bug 928400 which was filed after that.. 

Pinging Madalina so you guys can be added to the trusted contributors group so you can avoid this issue..

Comment 11

[Ricky Rosario [:rrosario, :r1cky]]

(In reply to Andrew Truong [:feer56] from comment #10)
> Pinging Madalina so you guys can be added to the trusted contributors group
> so you can avoid this issue..

I already did that. See comment 6 and comment 8 :)

Comment 13

[Kadir Topal [:atopal]]

Madalina, any suggestion what the text should be?

CC'ing Joni for the copy.

Comment 14

[Alice Wyman]

(In reply to Wayne Mery (:wsmwk) from comment #7)
> I often respond to issues in a series of tabs which are similar to each
> other, and so have been known to post at a rate of at least a reply per
> minute.
> Are there categories of contributor that are exempt from the limit?

Bug 862347 allowed certain groups such as forum moderators to be excluded from the answering rate limit.
See Kadir's April 17, 2013 post here:
https://support.mozilla.org/forums/contributors/709149#post-51959

Comment 15

[madalina]

The text can be something like:

"In order to prevent spam, we are currently limiting the number of answers that can be posted in a given amount of time. If you are a Mozilla contributor please contact [e-mail] so you can be whitelisted"

Comment 16

[Matt]

So is the failure of the forum to reset in an hour or two another bug that needs to be looked at?  I really don't think a permanent failure to work is appropriate response to fighting spam.

Comment 17

[Joni Chan]

(In reply to madalina from comment #15)
> The text can be something like:
> 
> "If you are a Mozilla
> contributor please contact [e-mail] so you can be whitelisted"

I thought one had to be a contributor to answer questions in the first place. Perhaps we should narrow this down in the message.

Example:

"In order to prevent spam, we are limiting the number of answers that can be posted within a short period of time. Please try posting again in ____ minutes. If you are a top 25 contributor, please contact [e-mail] to remove this limit on your account."

We'd replace "top 25 contributor" with whatever the requirement is, as long as we state the criteria clearly. It would also be helpful to know when they should try posting again.

Comment 18

[Joni Chan]

Correction:

"In order to prevent spam, we are limiting the number of answers that can be posted within a short period of time. Please try posting again in ____ minutes. If you are a top 25 contributor, please contact [e-mail] to remove this limit from your account."

Comment 19

[madalina]

Thanks, Joni. If adding "contributor" to the message is redundant, here's my proposal:

"In order to prevent spam, we are limiting the number of answers that can be posted within a short period of time. Please try posting again in ____ minutes. If you want to post more please contact [e-mail] to remove this limit from your account."

Works?

Comment 20

[Joni Chan]

That sounds good to me.

Comment 21

[Alice Wyman]

(In reply to Matt from comment #16)
> So is the failure of the forum to reset in an hour or two another bug that
> needs to be looked at?  I really don't think a permanent failure to work is
> appropriate response to fighting spam.

This certainly seems like a bug.  The problem was reported again yesterday and waiting "several hours" didn't help.  See:    
https://support.mozilla.org/forums/contributors/710144 [Attn: Admin] You have exceeded the number of answers 

(In reply to madalina from comment #19)
> Thanks, Joni. If adding "contributor" to the message is redundant, here's my
> proposal:
> 
> "In order to prevent spam, we are limiting the number of answers that can be
> posted within a short period of time. Please try posting again in ____
> minutes. If you want to post more please contact [e-mail] to remove
> this limit from your account."
> 
> Works?

An email wouldn't necessarily include the information necessary to identify the user's SUMO account.   I think it might be better to ask the user to PM you via the "private message" link in your user profile page, https://support.mozilla.org/user/662734 ... or else to ask the user to create a post on the contributors forum, https://support.mozilla.org/forums/contributors

Comment 22

[Ricky Rosario [:rrosario, :r1cky]]

(In reply to Alice Wyman from comment #21)
> This certainly seems like a bug.  The problem was reported again yesterday
> and waiting "several hours" didn't help.  See:    
> https://support.mozilla.org/forums/contributors/710144 [Attn: Admin] You
> have exceeded the number of answers 

There is an hourly limit and a daily limit.

Comment 23

[Ricky Rosario [:rrosario, :r1cky]]

I thin(In reply to Alice Wyman from comment #21)
> or else to ask the user to
> create a post on the contributors forum,
> https://support.mozilla.org/forums/contributors

I like this idea best.

I'd also like to avoid mentioning what the limits are and when to try posting again. Instead tell them to go straight to the forum or wherever to ask to be white-listed.

Comment 24

[Ricky Rosario [:rrosario, :r1cky]]

Moving to next sprint during planning.

Comment 25

[Kadir Topal [:atopal]]

Maybe we could create a group profile and give the ability to add people to the community?

Madalina, what do you think?

Comment 26

[Alice Wyman]

(In reply to Ricky Rosario [:rrosario, :r1cky] from comment #22) 
> 
> There is an hourly limit and a daily limit.

What's the hourly and daily limit and when did these take effect?  You said in bug 785851 comment 7 in April 2013 that (quote) "Our rate-limiting infrastructure can only do one of these right now AFAIK. So I am going to go with 1/minute. This way it doesnt affect the power users that do over 50 a day."

Comment 27

[Ricky Rosario [:rrosario, :r1cky]]

(In reply to Alice Wyman from comment #26)
> What's the hourly and daily limit and when did these take effect?

Actually, it is 4 per minute and 100 per day.

Comment 28

[Ricky Rosario [:rrosario, :r1cky]]

pushing out to next sprint

Comment 29

[Ricky Rosario [:rrosario, :r1cky]]

Moving it to the next sprint.

Comment 30

[Ricky Rosario [:rrosario, :r1cky]]

moving to next sprint.

Comment 31

[madalina]

Alice's suggestion to ask the user to create a request for white-list on the contributor forums seems to be the way to go.
A group profile could also work as an addition so that moderators can be able to add people. The only thing I see here is that we need to make all moderators group leads as only group leads can add people as far as I know? And of course we will need guidelines on how to do that :)

Comment 32

[Kadir Topal [:atopal]]

Thanks, Madalina!

Okay, so we only need to change the messaging code wise, the rest is done in the admin.

Comment 33

[Rehan Dalal (Inactive)]

Landed:
https://github.com/mozilla/kitsune/commit/9d1c9042016bb43aabc9c9dafe86bde1fc6ece94

Pushed to prod by me, right now.