105620 - Ctrl+N should open new tabs in "tabbed mode" instead of Ctrl+T

Status: VERIFIED WONTFIX

(SeaMonkey :: Tabbed Browser, defect)

Description

[Illtud Daniel]

Ctrl-T should *not* be the 'open new tab' shortcut. Ctrl-T is 'get new mail'
(ok, it only works in the mail window, but it shouldn't have a different
function in the browser window).

Ctrl-W should close *that tab*, not the whole window.

Comment 1

[Boris Zbarsky [:bzbarsky]]

tabbed browser.  The ctrl-w issue is a dup.

The ctrl-t issue is open for interpretation -- do you have a better suggestion?
we're running out of ideas for keys here.. :)

Comment 2

[Ryan Pertusio]

Illtud Daniel, the specific bug with the CTRL+W is addressed in bug 102602.

As for another shortcut key, i would propose CTRL+ALT+SHIFT+F4+F8+N+I+SPACE+W
instead :)  (i'm kidding)

Does anyone have a list (or know where to get) of the different keys used in
mozilla?

Comment 3

[Illtud Daniel]

> Illtud Daniel, the specific bug with the CTRL+W is addressed in bug 102602.

Ah, sorry about that - I did a search beforehand, but didn't
hit anything.
 
How about ctrl-n gives you a new tab? ie - if you're in 'tabbed'
mode, ctrl-n & ctrl-w do just what you expect, only on tabs, not
windows. If you're in tabbed mode, why would you want to open
another window anyway?

You could then bind ctrl-shift-N & ctrl-shift-W to 'open new
window' and 'close current window' - just for completeness.

Tabbed browsing (not because of the tab, but because of the speed
of opening a new window) is what will make me move over to Moz
for good (from NS4.78 - don't laugh). Keeping ctrl-n & ctrl-w
(the keys I use most) the same would be the right thing to do
UI-wise. I'll also be dragging 220+ users with me (plus thousands
more of our reading room customers), so I'm not just speaking 
for myself (we're a National Copyright Library).

So - my vote goes:

Tabbed mode - CRTL-N - new tab, CTRL-W close current tab,
              CRTL-SHIFT-N new window, CTRL-SHIFT-W close current window.

Non-tabbed  - CRTL-N - new window, CTRL-W close current window.

I'm sorry that this conmingles this bug & the CTRL-W one, but I
think they're all the same issue, really.

Comment 4

[timeless]

ctrl+shft+n is new blank page to edit, i suppose we could move that to
ctrl+shift+e just for fun and added confusion. and yes there's a list of used
keybindings...

Comment 5

[tom stuart]

the suggestion that you're either in "tabbed" or "untabbed" mode is
disingenuous. multiple tabs are most useful in conjunction with multiple windows.

> If you're in tabbed mode, why would you want to open
> another window anyway?

because tabs are terribly useful for logically grouping browser sessions. if
you're browsing a bunch of cross-referenced api documentation in three separate
tabs in one window, and you suddenly get the urge to go read pokey the penguin,
you can ctrl-n a new window into life and keep your comics separate from your docs.

i'd maintain that it's far more important to allow ctrl-n to hold onto its
traditional and well-established functionality. and to get back on topic for the
bug: of all possible keyboard shortcuts for tab creation, ctrl-t is by far the
most sensible, memorable and intuitive.

Comment 6

[David Hyatt]

I could not agree more.  Resolving WONTFIX.

Comment 7

[Illtud Daniel]

> the suggestion that you're either in "tabbed" or "untabbed" mode is
> disingenuous. multiple tabs are most useful in conjunction with multiple 
> windows.

You appear to be in a minority, I'm afraid. Tabbed browsing has
been welcomed as a major UI improvement because it brings window
responsiveness into the realms of usability.

>> If you're in tabbed mode, why would you want to open
>> another window anyway?
>
> because tabs are terribly useful for logically grouping browser sessions. if
> you're browsing a bunch of cross-referenced api documentation in
> three separate tabs in one window, and you suddenly get the urge
> to go read pokey the penguin, you can ctrl-n a new window into life
> and keep your comics separate from your docs.

OK, then when having a tabbed window open, which kind of 'new window'
is most likely to be requested by the user? A new tab or new window.
I'd suggest the former, which is why I feel very strongly that CTRL-N
should map to this.

> i'd maintain that it's far more important to allow ctrl-n to hold
> onto its traditional and well-established functionality.

Me too! A million times me too! You're ignoring very basic UI
concepts. Ctrl-N's functionality is to give me a new browsing
'page' ('page' used to try and avoid using 'window', since they're
distinct from 'tab' - a new tab & a new window are both a new
'page' in this instance). The UI should not change because I'm
using a different 'mode' for my browsing. This is *basic* stuff,
people.

> and to get back on topic for the bug: of all possible keyboard
> shortcuts for tab creation, ctrl-t is by far the most sensible,
> memorable and intuitive.

Nonsense. You've obviously never used netscape (as gazillions of
us 'corporate' users do) in anger as a web & mail client. CTRL-t
is 'get new mail'. Always has been, always will be. You're ****
around with the UI.

CTRL-W's functionality is to *close the 'page' that's displaying*
- CTRL-W means 'get rid of this that I'm seeing' *that* is it's
functionality and that's what it should remain. CTRL-W should
close the current tab only.

I'm disappointed that you're declaring this one WONTFIX - it's
a mistake that goes contrary to all UI theory & good practice,
and I'm sorry you haven't been able to grasp this.

Comment 8

[David Hyatt]

I could waste a bunch of time defending myself in the bug (I do have plenty of
arguments to apply here), but I'm going to spare my wrists for something that
matters. :)

Comment 9

[timeless]

vrfy hyatt has better things to do w/ his wrists.

fwiw when i use tab browsing, i use multiple windows.  Each window is its own
workspace for some specific task.

ooh, if we want something to create new pages we could use ctrl-p. it's not like
anyone prints or anything. I'd suggest calling them panes though, since you
really create pages w/ ctrl-e not ctrl-n.

Comment 10

[Illtud Daniel]

I'm disappointed that nobody had addressed:

CTRL-T is 'get new mail', always has been - have you discussed
the fact that you're using it as well with the Mozilla Mail team?

CTRL-W has always semantically meant 'close the page I'm looking at',
which you're now **** with.

I'm also disappointed that you don't seem to deem your stance worthy
of defending (nobody's addressed any of the issues I raised).

Comment 11

[Boris Zbarsky [:bzbarsky]]

> CTRL-T is 'get new mail'

In mailnews, sure.  In the browser, it's not.
There are other examples of this already, even in NS4.  A quick look shows that
Alt+L is open location in browser and forward message in mailnews in NS4 on
Linux.

Please don't conflate the two apps.  They have very different requirements and
the only times when keybindings should affect each other is that a function
available in both apps should have the same keybinding in both.

> CTRL-W has always semantically meant 'close the page I'm looking at',
> which you're now dicking with.

Please see the "Ryan Pertusio 2001-10-19 16:30" comment.  He points you at bug
102602, which is about ctrl-w.  If you had read that bug, you would have seen
that that has a patch that makes ctrl-w do exactly what you want it to do and
the patch even has r=, so it should hopefully be landing soon.

Comment 12

[Illtud Daniel]

>> CTRL-T is 'get new mail'
> 
> In mailnews, sure.  In the browser, it's not.
> There are other examples of this already, even in NS4.  A quick look
> shows that Alt+L is open location in browser and forward message in
> mailnews in NS4 on Linux.

...another bug, if you ask me. NS4 on win32 doesn't do that, and
I'm disappointed that mozilla brings that bug to all platforms.
 
> Please don't conflate the two apps.  They have very different
> requirements and the only times when keybindings should affect
> each other is that a function available in both apps should
> have the same keybinding in both.

...so, ctrl-n in mail & browser does 'open new browser window',
whilst ctrl-t in mail & browser does... oops! - c'mon, admit that
that's inconsistent. Pretty please?

>> CTRL-W

> Please see the "Ryan Pertusio 2001-10-19 16:30" comment.  He points
> you at bug 102602, which is about ctrl-w.  If you had read that bug,

Hmm, yes, I seem to not have read it, but I managed to contribute
to the thread. Clever that. I do admit that I didn't see the patch
(which was added recently) - but I think that seperating out ctrl-t/
ctrl-n & ctrl-w into seperate bugs is a mistake. That ctrl-w is going
to be 'close current tab' strengthens my case for ctrl-n to be 'open
new tab', IMHO - it certainly warrants a proper discussion of the
open/close tab/window keybindings. Does this mean there won't be any
binding for 'close current window'?

I'm trying not to be too trying, BTW.

Comment 13

[Boris Zbarsky [:bzbarsky]]

Ok. Doing this the way it should have been done to start with.

Comment 14

[Boris Zbarsky [:bzbarsky]]

UI design.

Comment 15

[Aleksander Adamowski]

I think that since there is a discussion whether the current binding should be
changed and what would be the new binding, I propose to mark this bug as a dup
of bug 57805.

Comment 16

[tom stuart]

illtud daniel, is there really a serious suggestion here that ctrl-t should be 
a universal shortcut for 'get new mail'? what should happen when i hit ctrl-t 
in the browser, or composer, or chatzilla? should ctrl-t now be globally 
useless to anyone who isn't using the mail client?

i don't feel this is a genuine case of not "[being] able to grasp [...] all UI 
theory & good practice", but rather a desire on your part to do some "**** 
with the UI" in a way which obviously makes sense to you, but which i think 
would confuse a lot of people (and a lot of netscape / mozilla users are just 
using the browser, believe it or not -- notice that 'just the browser' is a 
prominent installer option).

i do see where you're going with the equation of ctrl-w-as-close-current-tab 
with ctrl-n-as-create-new-tab, but i think that's another (unintentionally) 
disingenuous argument.

the sticking point, for me at least, is this whole idea of 'tabbed' vs 'non-
tabbed' mode. what does that mean, exactly? i think a lot of people will want 
to have multiple windows with multiple tabs, as summarised in my earlier 
comments and confirmed by timeless. and if you're talking about simply whether 
the current window has more than one tab (ie. tabs are visible) then, well, how 
do i open a new tab in a new window? are you suggesting that i should have to 
menu to File -> New -> Navigator Tab, and then *after* that i can open new tabs 
with ctrl-n? that strikes me as a lot more awkward and inconsistent than just 
allowing ctrl-n to keep the same meaning it's always had (which is 'new 
*window*, before you agree with me again) and introducing a new, intuitive, 
nonconflicting-within-the-browser key binding for 'new tab'.

ctrl-w doesn't suffer from this awkwardness, by the way, since it will always 
have an unambiguous context; it can be considered to always 'close current 
page', which will close the current tab and, in the case where there's only one 
tab in the window (ie. what i assume to be your 'non-tabbed mode'), close the 
window too. the more i think about it, the more i'm tempted to argue that it 
would be annoyingly dangerous to provide an easy binding to close a many-tabbed 
window anyway; i assume you'd agree.

i think that the contextual ambiguity in the case of ctrl-n/ctrl-t justifies 
the separation of key bindings -- and i think ctrl-t is a great binding for it -
- whereas i can't see any problems with ctrl-w. they are, rightly, separate 
issues.

i agree that there is a basic principle at stake here, but the principle should 
be that it's okay to have globally conflicting application-specific keybindings 
for application-specific functionality. i find it hard to believe that you'd 
really defend to the death your right to get new mail when you're not using a 
mail application, but perhaps you can prove me wrong.

Comment 17

[Illtud Daniel]

Tom said:

> illtud daniel, is there really a serious suggestion here that ctrl-t should be 
> a universal shortcut for 'get new mail'? what should happen when i hit ctrl-t 
> in the browser, or composer, or chatzilla? should ctrl-t now be globally 
> useless to anyone who isn't using the mail client?

Yes. That's my opinion as a <cough> 'power' user of NS4.* & back to
Mosaic. As a controller of 250+ desktops using NS for mail & web,
and waiting for mozilla to hit the sweet spot so that we can migrate.
This is only my opinion, and all I'm after is for anyone to give
me arguments against my POV - the ones offered so far have been
weak to say the least.

> i don't feel this is a genuine case of not "[being] able to grasp [...] all UI 
> theory & good practice", but rather a desire on your part to do some "**** 
> with the UI" in a way which obviously makes sense to you, but which i think 
> would confuse a lot of people

Yes, that's exactly what I'm doing, and since nobody had yet spoke up
for the 'lot of people' I was at a loss to see what the problem was.

> (and a lot of netscape / mozilla users are just 
> using the browser, believe it or not -- notice that 'just the browser' is a 
> prominent installer option).

...then for their benefit we must duplicate a key binding used in
the mailer?? The browser people aren't losing anything in this
situation except the choice to be able to use ctrl-t (previously
unbound in the browser) as 'open new tab'. BFD. And I don't buy
your earlier argument that "ctrl-t is by far the most sensible,
memorable and intuitive." 'Intuitive'?? Are you familiar with the
old NS bindings (most of which have moved on to NS) - do you
do all your browsing from the keyboard? There's not much 'intuition'
involved, and that doesn't seem to be a problem.

> the sticking point, for me at least, is this whole idea of 'tabbed' vs 'non-
> tabbed' mode. what does that mean, exactly? i think a lot of people will want 
> to have multiple windows with multiple tabs, as summarised in my earlier 
> comments and confirmed by timeless. and if you're talking about simply whether 
> the current window has more than one tab (ie. tabs are visible) then, well, 
how 
> do i open a new tab in a new window? are you suggesting that i should have to 
> menu to File -> New -> Navigator Tab, and then *after* that i can open new 
tabs 
> with ctrl-n? that strikes me as a lot more awkward and inconsistent than just 
> allowing ctrl-n to keep the same meaning it's always had (which is 'new 
> *window*, before you agree with me again) and introducing a new, intuitive, 
> nonconflicting-within-the-browser key binding for 'new tab'.

OK, now we're getting to the meat of the argument, and the one underlying
most of my gripes. My answer to your questions would be (as I've suggested
before) SHIFT-CTRL-N (yes, yes, currently bound to something else, but
I'm open to other suggestions) opens a new window, ctrl-n opens a new
tab within the current window. It's more likely (IMHO) that you want a
new tab than a new window. I browse a lot using 'open in new window' on
links - this should be 'open in new tab' by default now - the default
when you middle-click in *nix & it should be the top option on the
context menu in win32 (Fitt's Law).

Of course, none of this is really matters much unless there's a nice
easy binding to switch between tabs. Tabbed browsing is very much
faster on creating new 'pages', but the switching is broken due to
no (afaik - can anybody enlighten me?) keyboard binding.

> ctrl-w doesn't suffer from this awkwardness, by the way, since it will always 
> have an unambiguous context; it can be considered to always 'close current 
> page', which will close the current tab and, in the case where there's only 
one 
> tab in the window (ie. what i assume to be your 'non-tabbed mode'), close the 
> window too. the more i think about it, the more i'm tempted to argue that it 
> would be annoyingly dangerous to provide an easy binding to close a 
many-tabbed 
> window anyway; i assume you'd agree.

Erm, no. Presumably, clicking the 'x' (or whatever your window manager gives
you as a 'close window') in the GUI will kill a many-tabbed window, yes?
To follow your argument, it should only close the current tab. I'd argue
that yes, there should be a binding to close the current window of tabs
(CTRL-SHIFT-W, as you're wondering, and I challenge you to hit that by
mistake).

> i think that the contextual ambiguity in the case of ctrl-n/ctrl-t justifies 
> the separation of key bindings -- and i think ctrl-t is a great binding for it 

A great binding? A *great* binding? You do realise that keyboard navigators
don't really care whether the key is nicely mnemonic'd, do you? Are you
a keyboard navigator yourself? (and here I'll be rather snide & nasty
and comment that you seem to be having trouble with the simple concept
of a 'shift' key producing capitals, raising doubts in my mind that you're
the person to be making this decision).

> - whereas i can't see any problems with ctrl-w. they are, rightly, separate 
issues.

So if I've got, say, three windows open, one with dozen tabs in
it (say some API documentation I've been browsing...) then to get rid
of the multi-tabbed API window I should press Ctrl-w a dozen times?
Yes, that's what I have to do with current windows, but I thought that
this new tabbed malarkey was supposed to let us logically group
'pages' together for convenience. (I could also go for the mouse &
kill the window, I suppose, but I'm old fashioned in liking my
keyboard)

> i agree that there is a basic principle at stake here, but the principle 
should 
> be that it's okay to have globally conflicting application-specific 
keybindings 
> for application-specific functionality.

Weeeellll, no. Not really - I don't think that's what driving me -
what's driving me is that tabbed browsing hasn't really been thought
out WRT keyboard driven browsing.

> i find it hard to believe that you'd 
> really defend to the death your right to get new mail when you're not using a 
> mail application, but perhaps you can prove me wrong.

Nope, I wouldn't. But I do mind that you've introduced broken
bindings for an otherwise useful development. If we can agree
on what tabbed browsing is & how it's used, and agree on bindings
that are consistent within that model, then I'll be happy.

Comment 18

[Boris Zbarsky [:bzbarsky]]

> My answer to your questions would be (as I've suggested
> before) SHIFT-CTRL-N (yes, yes, currently bound to something else, but
> I'm open to other suggestions) opens a new window, ctrl-n opens a new
> tab within the current window.
> It's more likely (IMHO) that you want a new tab than a new window.

This should be the case if and only if there is more than one tab in the window
already.  If there are no tabs, ctrl-N had better open a new window, not a new
tab, since chances are the user is not using tabs at all and just wants a new
window.  No foisting of tabs on people who don't want them.  :)  Notice that the
proposed change to ctrl-W will only take effect once multiple tabs are open.

> this should be 'open in new tab' by default now

There is a preference for this in the tabbed browsing pane in preferences

> Of course, none of this is really matters much unless there's a nice
> easy binding to switch between tabs.

ctrl-pgup and ctrl-pgdown.  And no it can't be ctrl-tab -- that's used for frame
navigation.

> there should be a binding to close the current window of tabs
> (CTRL-SHIFT-W

Yes, agreed.

> agree on bindings that are consistent within that model

That's why this bug is assigned to the UI designer in the crowd.

Comment 19

[Tim Wunder]

Since tabbed browsing is a new feature, I think it's perfectly reasonable for
there to be a new keybinding for it. Ctrl-t seems to fit well with me (a current
NC 4.7x user). Ctrl-n opens a new window in both NC 4.7x AND Mozilla, seems
perfectly logical. If your user says, "How do I open a new Tab", that's when you
tell them to use Ctrl-t. One new feature, one new keybinding. 

To suggest that ctrl-n opens a new tab and ctrl-shift-n opens a new window
requires the user to know 2 keybindings for 1 action (opening a new browser
window), and to differentiate between what to expect from the keybinding
depending on what mode the browser is in (tabbed mode or regular mode). Not
exactly user friendly IMO. Ctrl-n: New Window; Ctrl-t: New Tab -- simple, easy
and always true regardless of the state of the browser.

Comment 20

[John Fredlund]

Other than spamming the bug, I don't know how to vote AGAINST a bug. Please
leave Ctrl-T as open new tab. It works, it's intuitive (IMHO), and my brain has
no difficulty with the fact that it means Get New Mail in the mail window.

Comment 21

[sairuh (rarely reading bugmail)]

spam: set your filter for "SeverusSnape" to avoid the influx of bugmail

changing QA contact of open tabbed browser bugs from blake to me. if this bug
requires a reassignment, however, feel free to change it!

Comment 22

[Jesse Ruderman]

This bug doesn't seem to be against Ctrl+T for opening new tabs as much as it's 
for Ctrl+N for opening new tabs (in "tabbed browsing mode", which would 
probably be a pref).  Resummarizing.

Comment 23

[Matthew T (active 1999-2002)]

For too long, Mozilla has fallen into potholes trying to make its keyboard 
navigation completely modeless: accel+N has been New Navigator Window, no 
matter which app you're using. This has forced New Message to be accel+M, which 
is annoying given the fact that practically every other GUI mailer (indeed, 
practically every other GUI app for creating *any* sort of document) uses 
accel+N for this purpose. Now the cluestick has caught up with Mozilla, in the 
form of Mac OS X, but still Mozilla tries to scurry away: the current thinking 
in bug 75898 would make the OS X shortcut for New Message be Shift+Command+M, 
which would be utterly intolerable for such a common function.

Enough of this madness, I say. There can be modeless shortcuts for the whole of 
Mozilla, but those which today's GUI platforms intend to be modal to the 
application -- including accel+N -- *should* be modal to the application.

I recommend modeless keyboard shortcuts be as follows. (See also bug 20306.)

(1) Everywhere, accel+1 should switch to the most recently focused Navigator
    browser window if one is open but none are focused, otherwise it should
    open a new Navigator browser window.
(2) Everywhere, accel+2 should switch to the most recently focused mail/news
    three-pane window if one is open but none are focused, otherwise it should
    open a new mail/news three-pane window.
(3) Everywhere, Shift+accel+2 should switch to the most recently focused
    mail/news composition window if one is open but none are focused, otherwise
    it should open a new mail/news composition window.
(4) Everywhere, accel+3 should switch to the most recently focused Composer
    document window if one is open but none are focused, otherwise it should
    open a new Composer document window.
Repeat as necessary for Chatzilla and the Address Book.

I recommend modal keyboard shortcuts be as follows.

(1) In mail/news, accel+N should open a composition window in plain-text/HTML
    mode, and Shift+accel+N should open a composition window in HTML/plain-text
    mode. (See bug 75898.)
(2) In Composer, accel+N should create a new document. (See bug 91588.)
(3) In the Address Book, accel+N should create a new address book card, and
    Shift+accel+N should create a new mailing list.

... But mpt, what does any of this have to do with tabbed browsing? Well, I'm 
of the opinion that tabbed browsing is the defining feature of those browsers 
which are doomed to forever have market share less than 5 percent. However it 
doesn't look like Mozilla's tabs are going away for another year or two; so 
while it still exists, I'm explaining why Shift+accel+N should be available for 
use by those who use both windows and tabs, rather than being squandered on 
Composer. For these people opening tabs is the more common operation, so
accel+N *should* be the shortcut for it (considerably easier and more 
instinctive than accel+T), while Shift+accel+N becomes the shortcut for opening 
a new window ...

(4) In Navigator, accel+N should create a new {window|tab} when in {window|tab}
    mode, and Shift+accel+N should create a new {tab|window} when in
    {window|tab} mode.

Back to Hyatt. The question is, will he be brave enough? :-)

Comment 24

[Andrei Boros]

On this dispute I'd rather suggest to go the way most other programs use. (this
includes other kinds of programs, and other browsers)

Tabbed mode - CRTL-N - new window
              CRTL-SHIFT-N new tab

Non-tabbed  - CRTL-N - new window

Assigning ctrl-N another function in tabbed mode will only increase confusion
and frustration in many of those used to ctrl-n WILL open a new browser window.
Ctrl-N opens a child window in programs that ONLY use child windows is not
really applicable here, because of the dual nature of Mozilla and the user
should not be in the position to consider carefully the effect of this key
combination with respect to the current situation. 

Comment 25

[Boris Zbarsky [:bzbarsky]]

>              CRTL-SHIFT-N new tab

Except CTRL-SHIFT-N is already bound to "New composer window".  And changing
this based on presense or absense of tabs would be _very_ odd.

Comment 26

[Andy Lyttle]

I vote WONTFIX, personally.  I agree that there is no real difference between
"tabbed mode" and "non-tabbed mode" - they're not modes; the ability to open
tabs is simply a feature.  If I have only a browser window open with no tabs, I
want a shortcut to create a new tab, and I want another shortcut to open a new
window, because I could want either, depending on what I'm doing.  If I'm not
accustomed to tabs, I certainly shouldn't be forced to use them.

The idea that keyboard shortcuts should change based on whether there are tabs
open or not is ludicrous.  You're proposing that if I have no tabs open, then
Accel-N should open a new browser window, but if I open a new tab (which there
would no longer be a keyboard shortcut to do, so I'd have to use the mouse),
subsequently Accel-N should open new tabs instead.  What if I have one window
with tabs, but another window with no tabs in front of it?  Does that count as
having tabs open, or not?  What if the window with tabs is minimized?

As was already pointed out, 1) having too many global keyboard shortcuts gets
annoying later, and 2) many people don't even have the Mail & News component
installed, so making Accel-T a global shortcut for checking mail is really not a
great idea.  Pressing Accel-2 before Accel-T seems quite reasonable to me.

Finally, the main reasons why tabbed browsing is a good thing at all:  1)
opening a new tab within an existing window is far faster than opening a new
window, and 2) there's no "open in new window behind this one" option like
OmniWeb has, so tabs can be used to open pages in the background without them
popping up in front of what I'm looking at.  Obviously the former is a major
problem that should be addressed.

Comment 27

[jag (Peter Annema)]

wontfix

Comment 28

[sairuh (rarely reading bugmail)]

mass-verifying Wontfix bugs.

mail filter string for bugspam: Tursiopstruncatus

Comment 29

[Chris Lyon]

*** Bug 174494 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***