108331 - Hebrew and Yiddish display backwards and worse in Moz 0.9.5 than 0.9.1

Status: VERIFIED DUPLICATE of bug 80577

(Core :: Layout: Text and Fonts, defect)

Description

[Arthur Barrett]

I have been canvassing various user experiences of using Mozilla with Yiddish 
and Hebrew web sites.  This comprehensive report regards the difference in 
display of Hebrew and Yiddish in Mozilla 9.5 on MacOs 9.2.  The reporter 
generally considers that Mozilla 9.1 was much better.

http://glz.msn.co.il/default.asp 
.91: correct except some A at the beginning of a hebrew word, a porblem order 
with latin word it's written IRA"ha" instead of "ha"IRA, and some strange 
question marks, probably some letter not recognized
.95: Totally incorect letters are backwards !

http://www.haaretz.co.il/
0.91: OK
0.95: OK but some question marks that was not in 0.91

http://images.maariv.co.il/cache/NP_0.html
0.91: OK except for some strange questions marks
0.95: OK except for some strange questions marks

http://www.msn.co.il/homepage.asp
0.91: OK, one strange question mark
0.95: Totally incorect letters are backwards !

http://www.walla.co.il/ 
0.91: OK
0.95: Totally incorect letters are backwards !

http://www.cs.uky.edu/~raphael/bavebter/numer.5.1/leye.tsugebundn.utf.html
0.91: A ydidish page encoded in UTF8 Perfect !
0.95: yiddish in utf 8 is TOTALLY borken : letters and words are backward
and vowels points are not under the right letters !!!!

http://www.ynet.co.il/home/0,7340,L-8,FF.html
0.91: OK
0.95: totally incorect letters are backwards !

Operating system information:
-------------------------
Informations Mac OS
Finder :	9.2
Système :	9.2.1  français universel
Enabler actif :	Non
QuickTime :	5.0.2
CarbonLib :	1.4
Partage fichiers :	désactivé(e)
Util. multiples :	1.4.1
Informations matérielles
Code de modèle :	406
Modèle :	Power Mac G4 (graphismes AGP)
Type de clavier :	clavier USB Apple - ISO
Processeur :	PowerPC G4
Vitesse :	500 MHz
Version nanokernel : 2.24
Extensions nanokernel : 13
CPU prévues nanokernel :1
uni-n: 7
Informations mémoire
Cache disque :	8160 Ko
Mémoire virtuelle :	désactivé(e)
Mémoire intégrée :	256 Mo
Nombre de logements mémoire vides : 3 (DIMM1/J22,DIMM2/J23,DIMM3/J24)
PC100-322S
Emplacem.	Taille	Type de mémoire
DIMM0/J21	256 Mo	SDRAM
Cache post. niveau 2 :	1 Mo
Informations de production
Révision de ROM :	$77D.45F6
Version ROM démarrage :	$0004.18f5
Version Mac OS ROM :	8.4
Nº de série :	CK012222-HSG-ffff
Version du logiciel :	Non applicable
N° de commande :	Non applicable

--------------

I will attach GIFs shortly

Comment 1

[Arthur Barrett]

Attachment: Moz 0.91 http://glz.msn.co.il/default.asp

Comment 2

[Arthur Barrett]

Attachment: Moz 0.95 http://glz.msn.co.il/default.asp

Comment 3

[Arthur Barrett]

Attachment: Moz 0.91 http://www.haaretz.co.il/

Comment 4

[Arthur Barrett]

Attachment: Moz 0.95 http://www.haaretz.co.il/

Comment 5

[Arthur Barrett]

Attachment: Moz 0.91 http://images.maariv.co.il/cache/NP_0.html

Comment 6

[Zach Lipton [:zach]]

This is so many bugs at once, I am inclined to call invaild. Thoughts?

Comment 7

[Arthur Barrett]

Attachment: Moz 0.95 http://images.maariv.co.il/cache/NP_0.html

Comment 8

[Arthur Barrett]

Attachment: Moz 0.91 http://www.msn.co.il/homepage.asp

Comment 9

[Arthur Barrett]

Attachment: Moz 0.95 http://www.msn.co.il/homepage.asp

Comment 10

[Arthur Barrett]

Attachment: Moz 0.91 http://www.walla.co.il/

Comment 11

[Arthur Barrett]

Attachment: Moz 0.95 http://www.walla.co.il/

Comment 12

[Arthur Barrett]

Attachment: Moz 0.91 http://www.cs.uky.edu/~raphael/bavebter/numer.5.1/leye.tsugebundn.utf.html

Comment 13

[Arthur Barrett]

Attachment: Moz 0.95 http://www.cs.uky.edu/~raphael/bavebter/numer.5.1/leye.tsugebundn.utf.html

Comment 14

[Arthur Barrett]

Attachment: Moz 0.91 http://www.ynet.co.il/home/0,7340,L-8,FF.html

Comment 15

[Arthur Barrett]

Attachment: Moz 0.95 http://www.ynet.co.il/home/0,7340,L-8,FF.html

Comment 16

[Arthur Barrett]

Attachment: Moz 0.91 Preferences -> Appearence -> Fonts

Comment 17

[Arthur Barrett]

Attachment: Moz 0.95 Preferences -> Appearence -> Fonts

Comment 18

[Mike Kaply [:mkaply]]

I don't understand why you are doing this.

Hebrew and Arabic support has NOT been implemented on the Macintosh.

that is why these do not work.

Comment 19

[Arthur Barrett]

I was not aware that the Hebrew and Arabic implementations were platform 
specific.

I have been canvassing for feedback "in general" - without nominating specific 
operating systems.

Where is it documented which operating systems are implemented, and which ones 
are not?

Is there any documentation, or can you state a timeline for the operating 
systems which do not currently have support ?

Is there any point trying to explain why Mozilla 0.91 worked better for 
Hebrew/Yiddish than 0.95 does ?

Comment 20

[Mike Kaply [:mkaply]]

It sounds kind of strange, but the reason Macintosh worked better on 
0.9.1 was because there was no Bidi support at all in Mozilla.

Once we added Bidi support, things started getting double reversed on 
Macintosh.

From what we know, Bidi support on the Mac is a tricky because there 
is no way to tell the OS NOT to do anything with Arabic/Hebrew text 
that it is given - it always tries to reverse/shape it.

So we have to do extra processing for Mac.

There are bugs about Hebrew/Arabic not working properly on the Mac, 
but there is no Release Note.

I'll make sure one gets added.

Do you know of anyone who does Hebrew/Arabic development on a Mac? We 
desperately need an expert to come forward on this to finish the work.

There probably isn't that much to do.

Comment 21

[Zach Lipton [:zach]]

We should probably resolve this invalid 

Comment 22

[Arthur Barrett]

If there is a general purpose container bug for MacOS Hebrew/Yiddish & Arabic 
maybe it should be marked as a 'dup' of that ?

BTW Bug 108365 is similar but for Linux. Is Linux not supported too?
http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=108365

Comment 23

[timeless]

i hate these useless bugs, so instead of me arguing w/ someone over which bug
this should be duped against, i'll provide the list:

all good candidates for general mac bidi isn't implemented bugs:
http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&rep_platform=Macintosh&product=Browser&component=BiDi+Hebrew+%26+Arabic

please pick from bug 80577 or bug 96305.  If you feel there's a difference
between those two bugs, i'd love a detailed explanation in either.

Comment 24

[Greg K.]

*** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of 80577 ***

Comment 25

[Zach Lipton [:zach]]

yes, please do not post so many attachments, but post a tarball with all of 
them in the future.

Thanks