Open Bug 1106251 Opened 10 years ago Updated 2 years ago

popstate-N.dat folders appear in folder pane

Categories

(MailNews Core :: Networking: POP, defect)

Product:
MailNews Core
Component:
Networking: POP
Platform:
x86_64
Windows 8.1
Type:
defect

Tracking

(Not tracked)

People

(Reporter: fm_mozbugs, Unassigned)

References

Details

(Keywords: regression, regressionwindow-wanted, Whiteboard: [regression:TB26])

User Story

citations:
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1013503 (first report found, 8/1/2014)
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1016811
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1037008
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1037795
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1038406
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1040289
http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2908757
http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2957159
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1003296 (2014)
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1038731 (2014)
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1083298 (2015)
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1129690 (2016) 

user OK/solved - perhaps
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1026288

user has profile in dropbox
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1038967

from 2017-2018...
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1153731
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1154675
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1154711
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1160423
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1193900
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1197954
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1199191
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1209259
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1218881
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1226808

Attachments

(3 files)

pic-to-show.png
68.74 KB, image/png
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popstate sizes pic
55.03 KB, image/png
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nello spazio riservato alle cartelle mi si creano un sacco di popstate.n.dat e non si eliminano ho 196 PC e non posso eliminare la posta su tutti
1.60 MB, application/pdf
Details
User Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:32.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/32.0 Build ID: 20140923175406 Steps to reproduce: Cannot reproduce at will. Often, popstate.dat folders appear in the left folder pane under accounts--SEEMINGLY (but not certainly) under accounts that have messages retained on the server when downloaded to Thunderbird (POP). Actual results: Randomly, popstate,dat files appear under accounts in the left folder pane. Expected results: No popstate.dat folders should be create by Thunderbird in the left folder pane.
Why do you state explicitly for accounts with "messages retained on the server"?
Flags: needinfo?(fm_mozbugs)
Also, please check tools | error console
'Why do you state explicitly for accounts with "messages retained on the server"? ' Because my recollection is that the popstste.dat folders have only appeared under accounts that are set that way--but I am not 100% certain of that. I cannot look and see because I delete them when they appear as the drive folders I use all the time "off the bottom of the list" and deleting them means I do not have to scroll every time to get to them. "Also, please check tools | error console" I looked for a way to export them to provide the list, but there is no such facility...and you cannot highlight the whole list to copy and paste; only one at a time can be hilited.
Morning of 11-30-14, more than ever appeared in one account. Before, two was the most I had seen; this time, six appeared under one account. Sometimes they are in more than one account. See arch "pic-to-show."
Flags: needinfo?(fm_mozbugs)
Attached image pic-to-show.png —
Ah, there were also three under another account further down; I had not scrolled down. (Wish we could edit posts.)
What is the size of these postate-N.dat files on disk? Does problem go away if you change back to version 24? download from https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/thunderbird/releases/24.6.0/win32/en-US/
Attached image popstate sizes pic —
(In reply to Wayne Mery (:wsmwk) from comment #9) > See https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1016811 > > Does it help? No. I had seen that previously and had renamed those seven days ago. I added "(dot)old" to the foldertree.json and panacea.dat files, i.e. foldertree.json.old and panacea.dat.old. The popstate.dat files have reappeared several times since then.
Correct one is "popstate-N.dat folder" instead. of "popstate.dat folder". Tb never shows "popstate.dat" as folder. FYI. Such phenomenon is easily observed by : Remove write permission of popstate.dat file. Upon updating popstate.dat file, Tb does (1) "write data to popstate-N.dat" and (2) "delete popstate.dat+rename popstate-N.dat to popstate.dat". If you interfere (2) by removing Tb's write permission on popstate.dat, (2) fails, so popstate-N.dat remains. If Tb is restarted when popstate-N.dat remains, it's shown as mail folder, because it's not "popstate.dat".
So if the rename fails, we should remove the temporary popstate-N.dat file immediately so it does not show up after restart. Yes, that would loose the changes to it. So we should not attempt a download of messages in the first place if popstate.dat is not writable. That should be doable. But first see if some antivirus is not blocking the file.
That describes how the phenomenon MIGHT POSSIBLY be happening, but I checked all of the popstate.dat files, and none are read-only, plus they all have all permissions authorized (in Security tab) for System, the logged in user, and administrators, except "Special permissions."
Gosh, I wish we could edit posts... Forgot to say that the antivirus has not quarantined popstate.dat (nor any files for that matter) which is what it would do if it decided the file was suspicious.
It would not be necessary for the file to be quarantined for the AV to have interferred. Since it is easy for you to reproduce, I suggest... Start *Windows'* safe mode with networking enabled - win8 http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/windows-startup-settings-safe-mode Still In Windows safe mode, start thunderbird in safe mode - http://support.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/kb/safe-mode Does problem go away?
It is not "easy" to reproduce. It happens randomly. I cannot tell when they are going to appear. I would estimate that they show up about four days of the week.
averaging 4 days out of 7 is frequent enough, even though you can't reproduce on demand. SO hopefully running safe mode for 1-2 days is possibel for you.
(In reply to maybe-the-one from comment #16) > It is not "easy" to reproduce. It happens randomly. I cannot tell when they are going to appear. Who accesses popstate.dat when? Watching popstate.dat file access by Process Monitor is usually helpful. > http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896645 > Filter : If path ends with \popstate.dat, Include. If path contains \popstate-, Include. Virus scan by AV software, Auto-backup software, are two major culprit of "interfere Tb's file access". "Meaningless backup merely by archive bit of file with short interval" can easily interfere Tb's file access, because Tb frequetly updates file content while Tb is running. If popstaate-N.dat folder appeared as message folder after restart of Tb, delete such folder manually. Because it's garbage, there is no need to keep it.
(In reply to Wayne Mery (:wsmwk) from comment #17) > averaging 4 days out of 7 is frequent enough, even though you can't > reproduce on demand. > SO hopefully running safe mode for 1-2 days is possibel for you. needs test in windows safe mode
Flags: needinfo?(fm_mozbugs)
Whiteboard: [needs test in Windows Safe Mode]
(In reply to Wayne Mery (:wsmwk) from comment #19) > (In reply to Wayne Mery (:wsmwk) from comment #17) > > averaging 4 days out of 7 is frequent enough, even though you can't > > reproduce on demand. > > SO hopefully running safe mode for 1-2 days is possible for you. > > needs test in windows safe mode That would be hard to do...to keep the computer running in safe mode until it happened (or long enough to say it isn't going to). << especially true since the pattern seems to have changed. It has been (guess) abut five days since the last occurrence. I will try to keep a log of times it happens to get a better handle on frequency.
maybe-the-one, does the suggestion at https://support.mozilla.org/de/questions/1016811#answer-619413 work for you?? help menu (alt+H) > troubleshooting information click on the show folder button Close Thunderbird. Delete the files foldertree.json and panacea.dat (or rename them for added backout security) Restart Thunderbird.
See my previous comment about this same thing... "I had seen that previously and had renamed those seven days ago. I added "(dot)old" to the foldertree.json and panacea.dat files, i.e. foldertree.json.old and panacea.dat.old. The popstate.dat files have reappeared several times since then." Still true. I think that other referenced thread describing exactly the same thing confirms that my case is not unique.
Flags: needinfo?(fm_mozbugs)
ah yes. Too bad, I thought I had found something new. Yes, not unique. But still, "cause unknown". citations: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1013503 (first report found, 8/1/2014) https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1016811 https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1037008 https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1037795 https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1038406 https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1040289 http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2908757 user OK/solved - perhaps https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1026288 user has profile in dropbox https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1038967
Component: Untriaged → Networking: POP
Keywords: regression, regressionwindow-wanted
Product: Thunderbird → MailNews Core
Whiteboard: [needs test in Windows Safe Mode] → [regression??][needs test in Windows Safe Mode]
What do you make of this? Perhaps a regression from bug 239455? Not pervasive. But certainly seems like a change in behavior for version 31.
Flags: needinfo?(buchner.johannes)
Why still no information about file access of popstate.dat/popstate-N.dat? If process monitor like one is used, (a) "who accessed popstate.dat while getting log is Tb only" or (b) "someone else periodiclly accessed popstate.dat while getting log" can pretty easily be known. If (a), problem like following is supected. Contention among : (in popstate.dat, K: Keep, P: Partial, D: Delere, is held for each UIDL) (i) pop3 download (ii) update by filter(for "delete from POP3 server" just before next pop3 access) (iii) "delete from POP3 server" just before pop3 access for new mail check (iv) download of entire mail data for fetch heder only mail IIUC, event occurs in next order (iii) by previous download/filtering -> (i) -> (ii) by filter for this downlod (iv) occurs independently, and can occur at same time, at any time, because it's invoked by user's click of "Click Here". If manual filter run is executed, (ii) also can occur at same time, at any time. And, if non-deleted popstate-N.dat fortuntely happens while getting log, "when/by whoom the non-deleted popstate-N.dat was generated" can be known. Another concern. This bug was reported for Tb 31. It seems somehow changed recently. popstte-N.dat and timestamp On 11/29, many garbage waere generated. popstate-1.dat 11/29/14 3:10 PM popstate-2.dat 11/29/14 4:10 PM popstate-3.dat 11/29/14 4:44 PM popstate-4.dat 11/29/14 7:32 PM popstate-5.dat 11/29/14 10:20 PM popstate-6.dat 11/29/14 10:52 PM Next day, popstte.dat was normally written. popstate.dat 11/30/14 1:17 PM Some one kept popstate.dat file open from 3:00 PM to 23:00 PM, and closed at 24:00 PM? It may be following, once popstate-1.dat is used(for example, due to read open by someone), "write popstate-N.dat" + "rename popstate-N.dat popstate.dat(with replace mode)" won't work as expected. because "create unique file name" seems had bug in Tb 31, and it seems to have been resolved recently, and because "creation of popstte-N.dat" uses the "create unique file name"...
Summary: popstate.dat folders appear in folder pane → popstate-N.dat folders appear in folder pane
FYI. Suspected CreateUnique issue. When two tasks tries to update popstate.dat, two tasks requests unique temporry file name. Example of two tasks : pop3 download, and full download of fetch header only mail. To task #1, popstate-1.dat is returned. Because popstate-1.dat is not created yet on HDD, popstate-1.dat is returned to Task #2. Two tasks tries to write popstate-1.dat, and final "rename popstate-1.dat popstte.dat(replace mode)" fails. If this kind of issue, "Write permission", "Interfere by other software" are absolutely irrelevantto problem.
(In reply to Wayne Mery (:wsmwk) from comment #24) > What do you make of this? Perhaps a regression from bug 239455? > > Not pervasive. But certainly seems like a change in behavior for version 31. Yes, perhaps; but I don't understand why *folders* are being produced -- should be only files. Is that a Windows-specific implementation of NS_NewSafeLocalFileOutputStream (nsSafeFileOutputStreamConstructor)? The next thing I don't understand is why folders would show up automatically in the folders pane -- is that a normal Thunderbird feature? I also thought the IDs in the filename would be generated randomly, not in order. I suspect this is a odd Windows implementation problem of the SafeFileOutputStream, which is now triggered by using it more frequently (e.g. for popstate.dat). Hope that helps tracking down the problem.
Flags: needinfo?(buchner.johannes)
(In reply to Johannes Buchner from comment #27) > The next thing I don't understand is why folders would show up automatically in the folders pane -- is that a normal Thunderbird feature? This is design/spec of Tb. If you create file named ABC while Tb is not running, upon restart of Tb, Tb treats it as "file for folder named ABC", and creates "ABC.msf" for it. Reserved name is xxx.sbd etc. only. So, "file named popstate-N.dat file is treated as "file for fiolder named nstmp-N.dat" upon restart of Tb. > I also thought the IDs in the filename would be generated randomly, not in order. > I suspect this is a odd Windows implementation problem of the SafeFileOutputStream, which is now triggered by using it more frequently > (e.g. for popstate.dat). As I wrote in coment #25, popstate-N.dat is creaated in order of N in bug opener's case. Text dat of File naame,s ize, timestamp etc. is pretty easily obtained. At Commnt prompt, CD:C:\...\Mail\serername DIR popstate*.* > C:WORK\DIR.TXT notepad.exe C:\WORK\DIR.TXT Data like following is held in popstate.dat(and popstate-N.dat too). UIDL state : where stat = K(already downloaded), P8partial, fetch header only), D(should be deleted from POP3 server upon next login) So, "Which UIDL is added/removed" can be known merely by "comparison of popstate.dat content and popstate-N.dat" content". Actully created in what order in your environment? > Yes, perhaps; but I don't understand why *folders* are being produced -- Phenoenon itself is simple. By safe file writing, following is executed. 1. Obtain unique file name for popstate.dat update: logic like next. for(N=0;N<10000;N++){if(N==0) FN="popstate.dat";else FN="popstate-"+N+".dat; if FN is free return FN; else N++; } 2. Write new version of popstate.dat to obtained popstate-N.dat 3. Rename popstate-N.dat to popstate.dat with replace mode. In above steps, if something bad happens in step 2/step3, popstate.dat is not updated and popstate-N.dat is not removed. Problem is : data to analyze "What is the something bad" is not provided from anyone yet.
To test if bug 239455's checkin is involved the builds to be tested are... https://archive.mozilla.org/pub/thunderbird/nightly/2013/09/2013-09-05-04-59-33-comm-central/ (should work) and https://archive.mozilla.org/pub/thunderbird/nightly/2013/09/2013-09-11-03-03-41-comm-central/ (should fail). (the other nightly builds adjacent to 2013-09-09 are unfortunately broken) xref http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2961371
Blocks: 239455
Flags: needinfo?(vseerror)
Whiteboard: [regression??][needs test in Windows Safe Mode] → [regression:TB26??][needs test in Windows Safe Mode]
(User in mozillazine (comment 29) tested the nightly builds and confirms that 2013-09-11 is broken - so sort of confirm this is a regression of bug 239445.) Aceman, If your patch in bug 789679 doesn't help this bug, would you be able to take a look at this? Or do we need to consulte Johannes? And does bug 1144020 really block doing bug 789679? Or is bug 1144020 merely an imperative for maildir users? Then perhaps we move on to bug 1054232.
Status: UNCONFIRMED → NEW
Ever confirmed: true
Flags: needinfo?(vseerror) → needinfo?(acelists)
Whiteboard: [regression:TB26??][needs test in Windows Safe Mode] → [regression:TB26]
Could someone point out where the Windows implementation of SafeFileOutputStream lives?
(In reply to Johannes Buchner from comment #32) > Could someone point out where the Windows implementation of > SafeFileOutputStream lives? ishikawa probably knows
Flags: needinfo?(ishikawa)
Hi, I know more about the linux(i.e., POSIX) implementation. But since I am about to investigate the issue of read(fid, buf, size) returnning 0 for end-of-file condition under MacOS (which seems fishy to me), let me check the window implementation as well and come back to you. That the implementation of PR_Read() under linux and Windows did not cause the loop due to read() returning 0 at EOF condition looks very suspicious to me (maybe there is a bug in MacOS under a strange condition or the PR_Read() implementation under MacOS does not handles this subtle issue of strange |read| behavior and I agree the low-level implementation is very hard to track. I have not figured out where the mapping of |PR_Read| to |read| is actually handled very clearly even :-(
Flags: needinfo?(ishikawa)
(In reply to ISHIKAWA, Chiaki from comment #34) > > I agree the low-level implementation is very hard to track. I have not > figured out where the mapping of |PR_Read| to |read| is actually handled > very clearly even :-( Chiaki do you have good news?
Flags: needinfo?(ishikawa)
(In reply to Wayne Mery (:wsmwk, NI for questions) from comment #35) > (In reply to ISHIKAWA, Chiaki from comment #34) > > > > I agree the low-level implementation is very hard to track. I have not > > figured out where the mapping of |PR_Read| to |read| is actually handled > > very clearly even :-( > > Chiaki do you have good news? No, not yet sorry. At the same time, I am refreshing my patches for removing seek and enabling buffering for pop3 download, etc., I may be able to look into this further. But I have a feeling that given the problem was reported on Windows, is there any change that TB was not terminating fully when another invocation of it started (the famous termination issue/bug, etc.). But that is a wild guess. MacOS issue seems to be my incorrect reading of the spec: I failed to note that PR_Read() returns 0 when EOF condition is hit (as opposed to read under POSIX returns EOF.) TIA
Flags: needinfo?(ishikawa)
Flags: needinfo?(acelists)
I have an instance which may help. I set up TB with the latest version 45.2.0. I created a bare profile, and wanted to have it on a server rather than the local machine. Local machine is a vmware 6.0 hosted Windows 10 desktop with the above TB installed. NAS is a Readynas Pro 4 8tb server. I added a CIFS share for the drive storage. The share software is Samba, and the Readynas is the Intel version (not slower sparc). The share which I moved the profile to is mapped as a drive to be remounted at startup by windows as a drive letter. The ini file was modified to point at the NAS hosted profile. I copied the profile (which as then empty) to the nas directory, and updated the profile.ini file <profile.ini> [General] StartWithLastProfile=1 [Profile0] Name=shared IsRelative=0 Path=Z:\users\thunderbird-email\2016-0710\2016-0710 Default=1 <Configuration file> C:\Users\jimst\AppData\Roaming\Thunderbird\pfofile.ini The server in this case is a remote linux system running qpopper and is remote from my TB instance over the internet with appropriate latency. I have not had time to investigate, but my previous setup, which was accessing the same qpopper server with the profile hosted on the system with TB installed (also a vmware instance, but of XP64) never had this occur. I've had one TB crash, but I don't know how to find and attach that crash report to this bug entry as yet. I didn't notice the files until after the crash. Also this installation is all new enough, I can state there have been no shutdowns of the system killing TB. I have had two disconnects from the network (the cable failed from the switch to the hosting vmware esxi server) that may have caused something, since the profile is on a remote network drive (separate from the esxi hardware).
I don't understand English very well but I have linux Mageia 5 and I have the latest Thunderbird ESR. I have the same random folder in the left panel. It compare very rarely and today is the day. I have deleted it. I have none antivirus.
(In reply to maybe-the-one from comment #3) > 'Why do you state explicitly for accounts with "messages retained on the > server"? ' > > Because my recollection is that the popstste.dat folders have only appeared > under accounts that are set that way--but I am not 100% certain of that. I > cannot look and see because I delete them when they appear as the drive > folders I use all the time "off the bottom of the list" and deleting them > means I do not have to scroll every time to get to them. Yes, it is probable that if the account is set to not keep messages on the server, then we do not write popstate.dat and the problem of replacing it (as described by WADA) does not happen so no duplication of files happens.
Adding more reports to "user story" - the postings are tagged with "popstate", query: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/thunderbird?tagged=popstate
User Story: (updated)

Buongiorno sono Roberto, ho 196 computer con installato thunderbird ultima versione, sul lato sinistro dove ci sono tutte le cartelle ogni giorno mi crea una cartella apparentemente vuota nominata popstate-1.dat popstate-2.dat numerate fino all'infinito e non si lasciano eliminare. E' un municipio e non posso cancellare thunderbird su 196 macchine recuperare mail etc, è un suicidio. Lo screenshot vi fa vedere il problema. Grazie Roberto

(In reply to informatica from comment #44)

Created attachment 9104857 [details]
nello spazio riservato alle cartelle mi si creano un sacco di popstate.n.dat e non si eliminano ho 196 PC e non posso eliminare la posta su tutti

Buongiorno sono Roberto, ho 196 computer con installato thunderbird ultima versione, sul lato sinistro dove ci sono tutte le cartelle ogni giorno mi crea una cartella apparentemente vuota nominata popstate-1.dat popstate-2.dat numerate fino all'infinito e non si lasciano eliminare. E' un municipio e non posso cancellare thunderbird su 196 macchine recuperare mail etc, è un suicidio. Lo screenshot vi fa vedere il problema. Grazie Roberto

The following is what I got by "Google Translate":
Hello I am Roberto, I have 196 computers with the latest version of thunderbird installed, on the left side where there are all the folders every day creates an apparently empty folder named popstate-1.dat popstate-2.dat numbered up to infinity and do not leave remove. It's a town hall and I can't delete thunderbird on 196 machines to retrieve mails etc, it's suicide. The screenshot shows you the problem. Thanks Roberto

My question:
Do all 196 computers same OS, say, Windows 10?
Do all 196 computers use pop3 for retrieiving e-mail? Or Imap?
Where is the mail server? Do they talk to a locally installed mail server, or a remote (off-site server)?
Where do you store the local copy of mail for each PC: local hard disk on each PC, or a remote shared file system within the town hall?

  • the question above may also need to consider if your user for each local PC stores their profile on a remote file system including Dropbox (see comment 23).
  • If you use a remote shared file system for storing mail for each local PC, what protocols do you use, e.g., CIFS/SMB protocol?

Do you see any strange messages when you open error console? : In English menu, it would be Tools->Developer Tools-> Error console.
Do you use antivirus that may interfere with TB? [hard to tell, I know.]

That you see popstate-N.dat in the mail folder pane means that you have these data files in the mail directory (where the local PC mail messages are stored.)
They are likely to be created either

  1. when there is an communication issue between the mail server and the local PC [thus popstate is corrupted], and/or
  2. when there is a communication issue or file system issue that corrupts the popstate.dat [e.g., TB could not either open popstate.dat for reading and WRITING]. TB creates popstate-1.dat, popstate-2.dat, ...,
    until it can create a new file successfully.
    This creation of "-N.dat" until success is used by a routine to create a temporary file successfully.
    That you have many popstate-N.dat suggests that there has been a communication issue frequently OR
    file system issue frequently.

Thus my questions above.

Hello, first of all thanks for your interest and sorry for my terrible English, I inform you that all PCs have installed Windows 10 Pro 64 bit updated to date, all PCs are DELL i5 8Gb RAM.
All PCs use pop3
The mail server is locally based LINUX with QMAIL software
All mails are stored on the local PC under APPDATA and THUNDERBIRD directory
The wiring in the company is all 1 GB
The problem has arisen since September 2019 - from this day in the company have not been made hardware updates - proxy - firewall etc..
We have been using thunderbird for many years and we never have any auto problems, it has always worked very well.
Hello and thanks Roberto

(In reply to informatica from comment #46)

Hello, first of all thanks for your interest and sorry for my terrible English, I inform you that all PCs have installed Windows 10 Pro 64 bit updated to date, all PCs are DELL i5 8Gb RAM.
All PCs use pop3
The mail server is locally based LINUX with QMAIL software
All mails are stored on the local PC under APPDATA and THUNDERBIRD directory
The wiring in the company is all 1 GB
The problem has arisen since September 2019 - from this day in the company have not been made hardware updates - proxy - firewall etc..
We have been using thunderbird for many years and we never have any auto problems, it has always worked very well.
Hello and thanks Roberto

Hi,
You are welcome.

Interesting. There does not seem to be a clear smoking gun.

Initially, I thought it was a remote file system server issue that can affect all 196 PCs at the same time.
(I have a set patches to make it more robust for TB to work with remote file server to store local messages and profiles in general, etc.)

But this may be more environment specific.
For example, haven't you noticed that your PC may have rebooted unexpectedly (like, say, receiving the Windows update at unexpected time.)

The problem has arisen since September 2019 - from this day in the company have not been made hardware updates - proxy - firewall etc..

Despite your perception that nothing has changed, there must have been a change somewhere most likely to be communication-related
since it seems that all your PCs were affected.
Can you check if there has been more network-related errors than before in the town hall?

On the server side you said:

The mail server is locally based LINUX with QMAIL software

What distribution of linux does the town hall server use? Debian?, Ubuntu? and which version?
Do you know the version of each (kernel and qmail software).

  • I am assuming that town hall is using pop3d that comes with qmail.
    If not, do you know the version/name of that pop3 daemon?

I have a suspicion that windows Pro 64-bit side may not have changed, but linux side may have and caused a protocol issue or something. [For example, the timeout value for keeping pop3 connection may be shorted on the server side.]
(the sysadmin may have updated the kernel and application packages in one go.).

Oh for that matter, on the Windows PC side, are you sure you Windows 10 Pro 64 bit has not received May 2019 Update (1903)?
On one of my PCs, a home PC that is, I have a strange problem since I updated the OS to 1903. The update happened this month for me. But I understand that 1903 has been distributed to ordinary users since September 2019.
Many people have reported subtle issues after the update. I am curious if yours could be related to it.
Strange thing is that Windows 10 Pro 64 bit PC at the office has not experienced a problem since upgrade to 1903.

If you can find answers to the following questions that may help.

Do you see any strange messages when you open error console? : In English menu, it would be Tools->Developer Tools-> Error console.
Do you use antivirus that may interfere with TB? [hard to tell, I know.]

Oh, one more thing. Do your users turn off PC when the office people go home?
Or are PCs simply kept on and hybernate/sleep when a timer sets in?
The work practice may affect how TB is shutdown. If TB is shutdown unexpectedly, popstate.dat may gets corrupted and TB may try to
recreate another popsate.dat file by firstly creating a temporary file popstate-1.dat [but it needs to create popstate-2.dat if popstate-1.dat already exists, etc.].
I mean, if the PC software and hardware may not change, the office rule concerning the PC usage may have changed.

There may be a lot of possible causes, but I think people watching this bugzilla needs a bit more contextual information to focus on the cause of your problem.

If 196 PCs are all affected, there HAS TO BE a reason for that. We may want to know that.

PS: Additional question. Have new employees started to work at town hall and use the 196 PCs?

Bye, first of all thanks for your interest.
196 PCs have all windows 10 pro 64 bit. updated - CPU i5 8 Gb.
All use pop3.
Mail server installed locally in the company Linux management system QMAIL.
The mail is saved locally on HDD in APPDATA in the thunderbird directory.
We do nothing remotely all local. The PCs are all DELL configured all the same, since September I have had this problem, in many years that I use thunderbird I have never had this.
In our company we have all copper connections at 1 GB

Hi, there,
I received this post from a fellow systems engineer who had the same problem as me, the problem I think is due to Trend Micro.
Now I've applied the rule and from next Monday (because tomorrow in Italy is the feast of the saints) I'll see if it works and I'll let you know.
OK?
Thanks for your kindness and helpfulness.
I also attach the link to the post:

https://forum.mozillaitalia.org/index.php?PHPSESSID=rr9k5a7j9o8dibma89dov0fii7&topic=72476.msg507387#msg507387

Solo per informazione:
ho adottato la procedura che mi era stata suggerita con la configurazione di Trend Micro ma non ha portato alcun beneficio.
La creazione di nuove cartelle si è rallentato ma non si è concluso.
Faccio ancora alcuni test e vi segnalo l'esito.
Devo trovare però il sistema per eliminare le cartelle esistenti che non si riesce a cancellare.
Vi tengo aggiornati .
Grazie e buona giornata a tutti

(In reply to informatica from comment #50)

Solo per informazione:
ho adottato la procedura che mi era stata suggerita con la configurazione di Trend Micro ma non ha portato alcun beneficio.
La creazione di nuove cartelle si è rallentato ma non si è concluso.
Faccio ancora alcuni test e vi segnalo l'esito.
Devo trovare però il sistema per eliminare le cartelle esistenti che non si riesce a cancellare.
Vi tengo aggiornati .
Grazie e buona giornata a tutti

Google Translate said
For information only:
I adopted the procedure that was suggested to me with the Trend Micro configuration but did not bring any benefits.
The creation of new folders has slowed down but has not ended.
I still do some tests and report the outcome.
But I have to find the system to delete the existing folders that cannot be deleted.
I keep you updated.
Thank you and have a nice day to all.

=> Maybe no new such folders are created any more.
You might want ask your users simply to delete the created uncessary folders manually.
(A centralized control by installing a program might be an overkill and you really need to be SURE that
there is no bug in such a script/program. We are tampering with user's mail folder, so be extremely careful.)

Buongiorno a tutti
le cartelle create non si eliminano, ne con canc della tastiera ne con dx mouse elimina ne con la combinazione di shift+canc o shift+dx mouse elimina; non c'è verso di eliminarle.
Qualcuno sa se c'è la possibilità di eliminare le cartelle a mano dal sistema, registro o quant'altro? altrimenti l'unica soluzione credo sia quella di salvare i messaggi, i profili e ricreare un nuoco account con la speranza che non si ripresenti il problema; prima di fare questo su 196 macchine voglio tentare ancora di riuscire ad eliminare le cartelle create, mi è più comodo e veloce cancellare che non creare tutto di nuovo.
Con Thunderbird i miei colleghi si trovano molto bene e non vorrei essere costretto che l'azienda mi facciano sostituire Thunderbird con un altro software mail solo per questo problema.
Grazie e buon fine settimana a tutti.

(In reply to informatica from comment #52)

Buongiorno a tutti
le cartelle create non si eliminano, ne con canc della tastiera ne con dx mouse elimina ne con la combinazione di shift+canc o shift+dx mouse elimina; non c'è verso di eliminarle.
Qualcuno sa se c'è la possibilità di eliminare le cartelle a mano dal sistema, registro o quant'altro? altrimenti l'unica soluzione credo sia quella di salvare i messaggi, i profili e ricreare un nuoco account con la speranza che non si ripresenti il problema; prima di fare questo su 196 macchine voglio tentare ancora di riuscire ad eliminare le cartelle create, mi è più comodo e veloce cancellare che non creare tutto di nuovo.
Con Thunderbird i miei colleghi si trovano molto bene e non vorrei essere costretto che l'azienda mi facciano sostituire Thunderbird con un altro software mail solo per questo problema.
Grazie e buon fine settimana a tutti.

Good morning, everyone.
the created folders are not deleted, neither with keyboard delete nor with right mouse delete nor with the combination of shift+delete or shift+dx mouse delete; there is no way to delete them.
Does anyone know if there is the possibility to delete folders by hand from the system, register or whatever? otherwise the only solution I think is to save messages, profiles and recreate a new account with the hope that the problem does not reoccur; before doing this on 196 machines I want to try again to be able to delete the created folders, it is more convenient and quicker for me to delete than not create everything again.
With Thunderbird my colleagues are very comfortable and I don't want to be forced by the company to have me replace Thunderbird with another mail software just for this problem.
Thank you and have a nice weekend at all.

Severity: normal → S3
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