Closed Bug 1175324 Opened 9 years ago Closed 9 years ago

Version # is not shown in Add-on Manager

Categories

(Toolkit :: Add-ons Manager, defect)

Product:
Toolkit
Component:
Add-ons Manager
Version:
41 Branch
Type:
defect
Priority:
Not set
Severity:
normal

Tracking

()

Status:
RESOLVED WONTFIX
Tracking Flags:
Tracking Status
firefox38 --- unaffected
firefox38.0.5 --- unaffected
firefox39 --- unaffected
firefox40 --- wontfix
firefox41 --- affected
firefox42 --- wontfix
firefox-esr31 --- unaffected
firefox-esr38 --- unaffected

People

(Reporter: alice0775, Unassigned)

References

Details

(7 keywords) 

[Tracking Requested - why for this release]:

After landing of Bug 1161183

This is very bat.
I cannot manage existing addons/plugin etc without version #.
I cannot manage update addons/plugin etc without version #.

Tooltip is not enough.

Version # is main information to manage addons/plugin.
s/This is very bat./This is very bad./
This was of course intentional. The average user doesn't need the version numbers to manage their add-ons and Firefox takes care of updating for them. The version numbers are still in the tooltips, detail view and about:support.
Status: NEW → RESOLVED
Closed: 9 years ago
Resolution: --- → WONTFIX
An intentional bug, so it's a feature.

Oh well, I guess we need to rely on someone making another addon to put it back.

>The average user doesn't need the version numbers to manage their add-ons

Sure. An average user doesn't know about about:addons. So only those need them who use it.
OK then, the same can be said about Firefox, no more version numbers.
Let's go fatal !
The mozilla has changed their mind.

In Bug 562052, version number should be shown in the list view.
But now, version number should *NOT* be shown in the list view.
Blocks: 562052
(In reply to Dave Townsend [:mossop] from comment #2)
> The average user doesn't need the version numbers to manage their add-ons
> and Firefox takes care of updating for them.
Any telemetry data or discussion to validate and support this statement?

(In reply to Dave Townsend [:mossop] from comment #2)
> The version numbers are still in the tooltips, detail view and about:support.
This heavily breaks:
-ux-discovery
-ux-efficiency
-ux-implementation-level
Status: RESOLVED → REOPENED
status-firefox40: --- → unaffected
Keywords: ue, ux-discovery, ux-efficiency, ux-implementation-level
Resolution: WONTFIX → ---
This was removed based on the consensus of engineering and UX. Unless you have a new use case that demands access to the version number in the list that isn't already served by the other places it is visible there isn't anything new to talk about here.
Flags: needinfo?(dao)
That "UX" division is the #1 reason people are jumping overboard the Firefox ship en masse.
Add-On devs are already leaving the FF ship en masse or simply let it rot away due to such stupid decisions. For the few that still haven't given up completely, removing the version nr. from direct eyesight will make it even harder for them in trying to fix bugs when unknowing people tell them about a big and they first have to make them aware that the need to keep their mouse over the addon name for a couple of seconds and *pray* that once in a while the version number shows up, although barely readable, impossible to copy/paste. Whatever. Which idiots still waste time trying to brew add-ons for this f***ed up thing anyway.
(In reply to Peja Stija from comment #8)

Please moderate your tone.

Copying the add-on's version number to the clipboard has never been possible from the list view. If the version isn't showing up in the tooltip or it is for some reason hiding after too short a time (it stays visible as long as I don't move the mouse for me) please file a bug giving some steps to reproduce so we can fix it.

Otherwise it is simple for the developer to ask the user to either load about:support where the version number can be copied to the clipboard or double click on the add-on to get it.
(In reply to Dave Townsend [:mossop] from comment #2)
> This was of course intentional. The average user doesn't need the version
> numbers to manage their add-ons and Firefox takes care of updating for them.
> The version numbers are still in the tooltips, detail view and about:support.

Sorry, but I don't think this is the right way to respond to such a request. It should not be the decision of a few devs what "average users" need and what they don't.

Responding your way:
- the average user does not need Australis UI
- the average user does not need the loop/call feature,
- the average user does not need pocket feature
- the average user does not need a dev to tell him what he needs
- the average user does not need ... (tons of other things got changed in Firefox over the last few years)

And by the way, don't forget why Firefox became popular in the first place, its not because of "average users". Average users use Internet Explorer or Google Chrome, don't need add-ons and don't care about anything but browsing the Internet. What is the next step, removing ALL options, because the average user does not use/need them?
(In reply to Aris from comment #10)
> (In reply to Dave Townsend [:mossop] from comment #2)
> > This was of course intentional. The average user doesn't need the version
> > numbers to manage their add-ons and Firefox takes care of updating for them.
> > The version numbers are still in the tooltips, detail view and about:support.
> 
> Sorry, but I don't think this is the right way to respond to such a request.
> It should not be the decision of a few devs what "average users" need and
> what they don't.

You're right, and it's not. We use developers, product managers and UX to help us make decisions. It isn't a democracy though. We've made the decision in the way we always have and if there is a compelling use-case for revisiting that then we will. I haven't heard one yet though.

> Responding your way:
> - the average user does not need Australis UI
> - the average user does not need the loop/call feature,
> - the average user does not need pocket feature
> - the average user does not need a dev to tell him what he needs
> - the average user does not need ... (tons of other things got changed in
> Firefox over the last few years)

I'm not sure where you get your information from but the data we have gathered for some of those shows clear wins for users. Discussing specifics is off-topic for this bug though, those features can and have been debated elswhere

> And by the way, don't forget why Firefox became popular in the first place,
> its not because of "average users". Average users use Internet Explorer or
> Google Chrome, don't need add-ons and don't care about anything but browsing
> the Internet. What is the next step, removing ALL options, because the
> average user does not use/need them?

If there are features that are hampering Firefox's ability to grow then yes we should be talking about whether to remove them.
The more you guys are *thinking* about Firefox ability to grow, ain't it better to first *think* why precisely FF's userbase is shrinking rapidly for a couple of years now ? You guys really think your decision to undress FF on all fronts in order to become a complete Chrome-clone is going to get those users back ? I think things looks pretty clear how users react to those decisions.
We're now pretty off-topic for the issue at hand. If you have issues with the things Mozilla are doing and how we decide things then please take them up in the governance newsgroup. If you want to build a larger consensus around this issue and bring up actual use-cases that it harms then please start a thread in the firefox-dev newsgroup.
Status: REOPENED → RESOLVED
Closed: 9 years ago → 9 years ago
Resolution: --- → WONTFIX
> We use developers, product managers and UX to help us make decisions.

Well you probably shouldn't.

> If there are features that are hampering Firefox's ability to grow

http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

Removing features = devolution

Angering add-on developers with shady design decisions is just wrong. Without add-on developers Firefox is 'just a browser'.

And c'mon, we all know the version number got removed, because add-on managers new oversized theme  requires far more space than the old one in high dpi ranges. Would be easier to reduce font size.

before: http://i.imgur.com/ZfsMr8N.png

after a few css tweaks: http://i.imgur.com/XkVxEpu.png
I can understand the decision at Mozilla's side, I don't agree, but I can understand. What I don't understand is why we need to remove the markup for the version number if a simple "display: none;" could do the job letting open for user styles and complete themes to handle it the way they want.
I kind of find it funny that a version number removal causes addon devs to leave :P
I know my favorite addons arent capable of running on any of the other browsers.
> This was of course intentional. The average user doesn't need the version
> numbers to manage their add-ons and Firefox takes care of updating for them.
> The version numbers are still in the tooltips, detail view and about:support.

I manage my addons manually.  No automatic updates.  I don't like the idea of being
told what I need and don't need.  (I've also been writing software for a living for
20 years.)  Several addons are just to restore behavior that was removed by previous
"features," like Status-4-Evar.  (Writing over page content with status messages is
great ... oh wait no it isn't.)

When writing software, I hear "this isn't a democracy" too often, and almost never
hear "the customer is always right".  That may be valid when talking about security
issues, or hidden implementation details affecting performance or good modular
design, but as far as UI decisions - the customer IS always right.  Whether it's good
or bad depends on whether the user likes it and finds it efficient
(In reply to Dave Townsend [:mossop] from comment #2)
> This was of course intentional. The average user doesn't need the version
> numbers to manage their add-ons and Firefox takes care of updating for them.
> The version numbers are still in the tooltips, detail view and about:support.

Note that about:support does NOT display the version numbers of themes.  

I am a user who does not allow automatic updates of anything other than the virus definition file for my anti-virus application.  I want to control what is updated and when.  The "when" is very important since I do not want any time-sensitive activity of mine interrupted and delayed by an update.  

I download the .xpi files of extensions and themes when I find there are updates.  I scan them with three different anti-virus applications (only one of which is running continuously in the background).  When I am ready to install them -- and only then -- I disable my Internet connection.  Then I initiate logging all changes to my Windows registry and file properties before installing.  I capture a separate log for each extension or theme.  When I am done, I re-enable my Internet connection.  This might sound convoluted, but it is the result of a career of over 30 years doing software configuration management.  

The real issue is that displaying version numbers in the Add-ons Manager all at once instead of one at a time was definitely not a bug.  Thus, it should not have been "corrected".  

Before again closing this bug report as WontFix, PLEASE cite the bug number under which the version numbers were removed.  If there was no such bug report, then removing the version numbers represents a violation of good configuration management practices.
Status: VERIFIED → REOPENED
Resolution: WONTFIX → ---
There is an add-on which adds this feature: https://addons.mozilla.org/addon/amversionnumber/

The developers believe that most users don't need the version numbers. For those like you and me, who do, there is this add-on.
Status: REOPENED → RESOLVED
Closed: 9 years ago → 9 years ago
Resolution: --- → WONTFIX
(In reply to Michael Speier from comment #22)
> (In reply to Tony Mechelynck [:tonymec] from comment #21)
> >
> > The developers believe that most users don't need the version numbers. For
> > those like you and me, who do, there is this add-on.
> 
> The developers going wrong! If the users had problems with Firefox,
> Thunderbird or like me with SeaMonkey then we need this info to help the
> users! I have an Add-on at AMO and if there are problems i must now, wat
> version of the Add-on the users have. Should i say, that they must install
> another Add-on to see the Number of the Beast??? This is crazy!

Maybe it is crazy, but that's how it works. Some add-ons (including, I believe, this "Add-ons Manager - Version Number" extension) are rather simple and straightforward. Others, like Adbock Plus, are what Henry VIII would call (as he said, admiring the then-new Canterbury cathedral) "awful, pompous and artificial" (the meaning of the words has changed: to mean what he meant we would now say "awesome, impressive and well-contrived" ;-) ). Long-time users of Mozilla come to learn the particular kind of "craziness" that pervades the Mozilla world; they even feel at home in it, believe it or not. I use this extension and I love it, as it gives me (except of course in Safe Mode) the very version numbers which the Toolkit developers, in their infinite wisdom, had robbed me from.
What a bunch of utterly pointless decisions lately, but that theory, we might just as well leave away the version numbers of Firefox itself also.
Or is there some kind of special treatment, and the point is to make the shrinking userbase clueless about what's going on in the mind of the Firefox "visionaires" for the last few years, and it's primary meant to irritate the users away from traditional add-ons, while making them just install one more to make up for a vital feature that serves no single "gain" about being removed in the first place.
(In reply to Peja Stija from comment #24)
> What a bunch of utterly pointless decisions lately, but that theory, we
> might just as well leave away the version numbers of Firefox itself also.

Actually there is a trend, and not really a new one (I think it started around Firefox 5.0) toward deemphasizing Firefox version numbers too. The current app version can still be found, though, if you know where to look.
What Add-ons Manager bug report requested the elimination of version numbers?  If there was no such bug report, the change should be considered an unauthorized introduction of an error.  Please answer this when closing this bug report.
Status: RESOLVED → REOPENED
Resolution: WONTFIX → ---
(In reply to David E. Ross from comment #26)
> What Add-ons Manager bug report requested the elimination of version
> numbers?  If there was no such bug report, the change should be considered
> an unauthorized introduction of an error.  Please answer this when closing
> this bug report.

Bug 1161183 have discussed the pros and cons of this embodiment, and bug 1161183 comment 19 by Firefox UX team, although it is not be original idea of the bug and may not be the only solution.

The Mozilla is weakening the concept of version number, by automatically updating add-ons, add-ons signature, etc. We should also dilute it to some extent, otherwise, we see an useless UI for most users, and the system is not uniform at present, like the "-signed" brings a wrong perception.


As a developer and daily user, I don't feel too much inconvenience. Users can still get the version number by hovering or more or the above-mentioned add-on. The ordinary users should have enabled automatic updates, the latest version is always maintained.

If you think needs like a pref or automatically displays the version number when Automatic Updates is turned off, and so the others way, fill a new bug.
Status: REOPENED → RESOLVED
Closed: 9 years ago → 9 years ago
Resolution: --- → WONTFIX
P.S. Even without the "Add-on Manager - Version number" add-on, the version numbers of all extensions can be seen as a list by turning to a different page, viz. the about:addons page (Help → Troubleshooting information).
oops, I meant about:support
The number of comments in this bug report supporting version numbers and the 800+ downloads of the Add-ons Manager - Version Number extension (despite little publicity) indicate users want to see the version numbers in the Add-ons Manager.  Stop developing for the benefit of developers and instead develop for the benefit of the users.
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