Closed Bug 1355457 Opened 9 years ago Closed 7 years ago

Can't read the message list in thunderbird 52 when using JAWS 17 with unthreaded "list view". Threaded view works.

Categories

(Thunderbird :: Disability Access, defect, P3)

Product:
Thunderbird
Component:
Disability Access
Version:
52 Branch
Type:
defect

Tracking

(Not tracked)

Status:
RESOLVED WORKSFORME

People

(Reporter: norman, Unassigned)

References

Details

(Keywords: regression, regressionwindow-wanted, Whiteboard: [regression:TB4?][workaround: comment 8 - use threaded view])

User Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; Trident/7.0; .NET4.0E; .NET4.0C; InfoPath.3; rv:11.0) like Gecko Steps to reproduce: Install thunderbird 52.0 and set up a new account. Actual results: You can't read the message list. You can read the actual message but arrowing up and down in the message list gives no feedback. Expected results: pressing up and down arrows should cause the information for the currently highlighted message to be read back. This works with the nvda screen reader but not with jaws 17. Operating system is windows 8.1
Colomban, could to please take a look at this problem.
Flags: needinfo?(cwendling)
Dear all, If it works with NVDA it looks like it is a Jaws issue. Colomban and me use Orca under GNU/Linux that works without issue. You should upgrade to Jaws 18 to verify if it works with or contact the commercial Jaws support. You could also press F7 into a message to verify if keyboard navigation is enabled. Best regards.
(In reply to Alex ARNAUD from comment #2) > Dear all, > > If it works with NVDA it looks like it is a Jaws issue. Colomban and me use > Orca under GNU/Linux that works without issue. You should upgrade to Jaws 18 > to verify if it works with or contact the commercial Jaws support. > > You could also press F7 into a message to verify if keyboard navigation is > enabled. Anna, Norman Did JAWS 18 help? https://www.freedomscientific.com/Downloads/JAWS
Flags: needinfo?(norman)
Flags: needinfo?(annav)
Jaws 18 did not make a difference. For the record, this is a 32 bit thunderbird version on a 64 bit version of windows and jaws.
Flags: needinfo?(norman)
(In reply to nktech1135 from comment #5) > Jaws 18 did not make a difference. Thanks for the info. Have you reported the issue to freedomscientific? > For the record, this is a 32 bit thunderbird version on a 64 bit version of > windows and jaws. That shouldn't make a difference
I have not as of yet. Will do so next.
There is no need to upgrade to jaws 18 just go into the view menu and arrow down to sort bye and press enter then arrow down to threaded and press enter to check this will change the list view to a tree view and jaws will begin to read the messages in a tree view rather than a list view
Flags: needinfo?(annav)
Thanks for the help on this. I contacted freedom scientific and told them about it. There response was that they know about it and are working on a fix to be released on some unspecified date. I'm also not sure if it'll translate back to previous jaws versions. I am aware that threaded view still works but i like list view better and didn't want to switch unless i had to. I'd be interested in a technical explaination of the problem if someone has any idea of what happened? If not this can be considered resolved as far as i'm concerned. It's a jaws issue, not mozilla's problem. Thanks.
Yes I contacted freedom scientific also and they told me the same thing so I wrote back and asked them if they were going to issue an update for previous versions of Jaws and they told me that they do not expect to. I am like you this is not a Thunderbird problem it is a jaws problem so for me this issue has been resolved
this is a thunderbird problem though because prior to version 52 things worked fine now they don't and upgrading jaws is expensive is mozilla going to pay for everyone to upgrade there jaws like me? come on thats a nice chunk of change please hand over the $320 i need for the sma and the upgrade fee for jaws because you decided to break accessibility in your product.
(In reply to Anna from comment #10) > Yes I contacted freedom scientific also and they told me the same thing so I > wrote back and asked them if they were going to issue an update for previous > versions of Jaws and they told me that they do not expect to. That would be unfortunate. Don't they issue updates to existing versions? Perhaps enough complaints would result in a fix being issued in an update. (In reply to jennipalmer from comment #11) > this is a thunderbird problem though because prior to version 52 things > worked fine now they don't and upgrading jaws is expensive Thanks for pointing out the expense. I think it is a bit early to assume the vendor won't issue an update. It's also equally unclear a fix from Thunderbird is possible given that NVDA and orca work fine. But we do want things to work, so let's _assume_ for the moment that Thunderbird could fix it. What precisely is causing the problem for JAWS? Can someone please cite the reports given to freedomscientific that state what is causing them a problem, or give us a technical contact at freedomscientific? (I'm sure they are equally interested in getting this resolved)
Status: UNCONFIRMED → NEW
Ever confirmed: true
Summary: can't read the message list in thunderbird 52 when using jaws 17 → can't read the message list in thunderbird 52 when using JAWS 17 with unthreaded "list view"
Whiteboard: [workaround: comment 8 - use threaded view]
you can contact freedomscientific at support@freedomscientific.com this issue is happening with nvda so it is not just a jaws issue I am afraid.
(In reply to jennipalmer from comment #14) > you can contact freedomscientific at support@freedomscientific.com We don't have JAWS. So I am specifically asking for details from someone who has already done the legwork so we can move more quickly. Also, searching their knowledge base comes up a big fat zero http://www.freedomscientific.com/Support/TechnicalSupport/SearchResults?Keywords=THUNDERBIRD&SelectedProductID=1&PageToDisplay=1&PageSize=10#search-results > issue is happening with nvda so it is not just a jaws issue I am afraid. Which version of nvda? Note, I misunderstood comment 2, which reads "IF it works with NVDA " (emphasis added), not "nvda works".
(In reply to Wayne Mery (:wsmwk, NI for questions) from comment #13) > (In reply to Anna from comment #10) > > Yes I contacted freedom scientific also and they told me the same thing so I > > wrote back and asked them if they were going to issue an update for previous > > versions of Jaws and they told me that they do not expect to. > > That would be unfortunate. Don't they issue updates to existing versions? > Traditionally once they have moved to a new version of jaws they do not go back an update previous versions. As an example, if you wish to run windows 10 you *have* to have at least jaws 17 on your computer. > Perhaps enough complaints would result in a fix being issued in an update. > I doubt it but we can hope. > > (In reply to jennipalmer from comment #11) > > this is a thunderbird problem though because prior to version 52 things > > worked fine now they don't and upgrading jaws is expensive > > Thanks for pointing out the expense. I think it is a bit early to assume the > vendor won't issue an update. It's also equally unclear a fix from > Thunderbird is possible given that NVDA and orca work fine. > > But we do want things to work, so let's _assume_ for the moment that > Thunderbird could fix it. What precisely is causing the problem for JAWS? > Can someone please cite the reports given to freedomscientific that state > what is causing them a problem, or give us a technical contact at > freedomscientific? (I'm sure they are equally interested in getting this > resolved) Here is the exact email i received from fs. You will note the lack of explanation i'm sure. Dear norman Thank you for contacting VFO technical support. This is a known issue that our development team is working on for a future update. For now, it is recommended you visit the Mozilla page to revert back to Thunderbird 45.0 release to work-around this issue with Thunderbird 52. And here is the one i got when i asked about previous releases. Dear norman Thank you for contacting VFO technical support. Unfortunately, I‘m not aware if the solution will be available for earlier releases. However, we did find a work-around to get Thunderbird 52 to work with the JAWS® screen reading software. While in the Thunderbird application, Try going to the view menu, then navigate to sort by and change this setting to threaded and see if this resolve your issue. I'll reply to this and ask for a technical contact. Thanks.
freedom scientific just released a fix in jaws 18 for Thunderbird 52.0 but not for earlier versions like Jaws 17 and jaws 15 so I guess I will just have to use the tree view to be able to read the messages in the list but I prefer the list view .
Flags: needinfo?(cwendling)
As requested i went back to fs to see if i could get some developer contact info. I was basically told that the support team can't give me what i want and that the mozilla developers have direct access to the jaws developers and that what i'm doing is not needed. They want the mozilla developers to contact fs support and have there ticket escolated up the chain. Any help/thoughts here?
I want to point out that there are other inaccessible list. 1. Calendar events 2. list where you choose which folder to search when creating search folder
Through a contact in accessibility we have the following feedback from JAWS development "We fixed this with some changes to JAWS scripts in JAWS 18. We will provide a technical support notice on this issue for JAWS 17 users in the near future."
what about jaws 15 because I use jaws 15? I do not think that is fair that they will allow a fix for Jaws 17 in the future and not jaws 15
(In reply to Anna from comment #21) > what about jaws 15 because I use jaws 15? I do not think that is fair that > they will allow a fix for Jaws 17 in the future and not jaws 15 Hi. Finally got fed up with this yesterday when our work windows server auto updated to tb 52 for the third time in two months. Downloaded and installed jaws 18.0.4104 and updated my local pc to thunderbird 52.2 The problem is still not resolved completely. While i could read the message list in one account, i had 3 other accounts that didn't work. Reverted back to 45.8.0 for now. Did fs ever release the technical support notice for jaws 17? This may help find whatever the problem is and may even fix it for earlier versions.
Update. Found the fs technical support notice. http://www.freedomscientific.com/Support/TechnicalSupport/Bulletin/1635 Tried it with jaws 17 and it doesn't seem to work. Note, the only environment i have to test on is a multi user windows server so test may not be complete. It's worth someone else looking at. I looked at the script file briefly, and while not a jaws scripting expert couldn't see any reason this is limited to jaws 16 or 17. It would be worth testing on earlier versions.
Priority: -- → P2
(In reply to Wayne Mery (:wsmwk) from comment #20) > Through a contact in accessibility we have the following feedback from JAWS > development "We fixed this with some changes to JAWS scripts in JAWS 18. We > will provide a technical support notice on this issue for JAWS 17 users in > the near future." Is there anything to fix on Firefox side? Should we close the bug?
Priority: P2 → P3
Wayne, was there given some thought to Alex' question in comment #24? Do you know what change caused this to break?
Flags: needinfo?(vseerror)
(In reply to Marco Zehe (:MarcoZ) from comment #25) > Wayne, was there given some thought to Alex' question in comment #24? Do you > know what change caused this to break? It is certainly possible there is something we could fix. However, no useful info came from freedomscientific, and we don't have a regression range which would really help. Did it go bad in beta 47, 49, 50, 51, 52 (note we did not have betas 46 and 48)[1]? A poor substitute is the list of folder component fixes between 46 and 52 https://mzl.la/2LYXg2Y [1] https://releases.mozilla.org/pub/thunderbird/releases/
Flags: needinfo?(vseerror)
Keywords: regression, regressionwindow-wanted
Summary: can't read the message list in thunderbird 52 when using JAWS 17 with unthreaded "list view" → Can't read the message list in thunderbird 52 when using JAWS 17 with unthreaded "list view". Threaded view works.
Whiteboard: [workaround: comment 8 - use threaded view] → [regression:TB4?][workaround: comment 8 - use threaded view]
I was curious what resolved this bug, so I went looking and hit a dead end. So I'm not sure if anyone knows this is fixed. When 52.0 went bad for me, I reverted to 45.8 and disabled updates for a good while. A month or two ago, on a whim, I tried version 60 to see if the problem was fixed. I can't tell anyone why or how; but message lists read as before. I only mention it because in reading the thread out of curiosity for when and how it got fixed, I hit a dead end. For what it's worth, I'm using JAWS 15 on Windows 7 and NVDA on Windows 10, and it works equally well.

As far as i'm concerned this bug can be closed. I've moved on from that particular software configuration so can't really help test anymore.
Also, based on the last comment here the problem is fixed anyway in newer versions of TB so i would incourage people to update instead.

Flags: needinfo?(norman)

Thanks for the update

Status: NEW → RESOLVED
Closed: 7 years ago
Flags: needinfo?(annav)
Resolution: --- → WORKSFORME
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