1375975 - Gray text on black background next to black text on white background is hard to see

Status: RESOLVED WORKSFORME

(Firefox :: Theme, defect)

Description

[Tooru Fujisawa [:arai]]

Steps to reproduce:
  1. open 56.0a1 (2017-06-23) (64-bit)

Actual result:
  the tabs have too high contrast and are not good for my eyes

Expected result:
  previous color scheme, or something similar to other applications like Safari, Finder etc.

I'd say that consistency is neglected on photon design (see also bug 1373966)

Comment 1

[Dão Gottwald [:dao]]

This is basically by design. Stephen, can you please confirm / resolve as needed?

Comment 2

[Stephen Horlander [:shorlander]]

Yes, this is by design.

Comment 3

[Tooru Fujisawa [:arai]]

closing with "by design" without explanation nor response to "hard to see"?
isn't there any tracking bug about future change on the color?

Comment 4

[Tooru Fujisawa [:arai]]

I don't think resolving like this way makes sense.
this bug is about the text and background color that is hard to see,
not a question whether this is by design or not.

if this is by design, it means the design has a bug.

Comment 5

[Dão Gottwald [:dao]]

It's not clear why gray text on dark background would be hard to see. Can you elaborate? I'm pretty sure the colors provide sufficient contrast according to accessibility guidelines.

Comment 6

[Tooru Fujisawa [:arai]]

Most part of the UI on macOS uses black text on white or very light gray background, so, those area has high brightness,
and to read the text in that area, I need to adjust my eyes to the high brightness.
only the inactive tabs has gray text on black background, so only that area has low brightness,
and to read the text in that area, I need to adjust my eyes to the low brightness.

if I adjust my eyes to the high brightness, the gray text on black background is too dark,
and if I adjust my eyes to the low brightness, the white background is too bright.
and adjusting between them frequently places unnecessary load on my eyes.

with previous style, or in other application, I don't have to adjust to that kind of brightness difference,
and that's easier to read.

(In reply to Dão Gottwald [::dao] from comment #5)
> I'm pretty sure the colors provide sufficient contrast
> according to accessibility guidelines.

yes, "the gray text and black background" would have sufficient contrast, but the issue is that the
contrast (or the difference of brightness) between "'the black text on the white background' and 'the gray text on the black background'".

Comment 7

[Dão Gottwald [:dao]]

(In reply to Tooru Fujisawa [:arai] from comment #6)
> Most part of the UI on macOS uses black text on white or very light gray
> background, so, those area has high brightness,
> and to read the text in that area, I need to adjust my eyes to the high
> brightness.
> only the inactive tabs has gray text on black background, so only that area
> has low brightness,
> and to read the text in that area, I need to adjust my eyes to the low
> brightness.
> 
> if I adjust my eyes to the high brightness, the gray text on black
> background is too dark,
> and if I adjust my eyes to the low brightness, the white background is too
> bright.
> and adjusting between them frequently places unnecessary load on my eyes.

I don't think that's quite how eye physiology works. AIUI, the dark area doesn't fill enough of your vision that your eyes would attempt to adjust significantly.

Comment 8

[Tooru Fujisawa [:arai]]

if there's enough dark area and most UI parts are inside that area, it doesn't matter, just like existing dark theme.
it's problematic since the dark area is small and surrounded by high brightness area.

Comment 9

[Stephen Horlander [:shorlander]]

(In reply to Dão Gottwald [::dao] from comment #7)
> (In reply to Tooru Fujisawa [:arai] from comment #6)
> > Most part of the UI on macOS uses black text on white or very light gray
> > background, so, those area has high brightness,
> > and to read the text in that area, I need to adjust my eyes to the high
> > brightness.
> > only the inactive tabs has gray text on black background, so only that area
> > has low brightness,
> > and to read the text in that area, I need to adjust my eyes to the low
> > brightness.
> > 
> > if I adjust my eyes to the high brightness, the gray text on black
> > background is too dark,
> > and if I adjust my eyes to the low brightness, the white background is too
> > bright.
> > and adjusting between them frequently places unnecessary load on my eyes.
> 
> I don't think that's quite how eye physiology works. AIUI, the dark area
> doesn't fill enough of your vision that your eyes would attempt to adjust
> significantly.

That matches the research that I have read. It suggests quickly switching between *large* areas of light and dark views has a increased eye strain potential.

I think we already have the solution to this problem planned in that you can switch to an entirely light theme or an entirely dark theme from Customize Mode.

Comment 10

[Tooru Fujisawa [:arai]]

please do not close... :/

if compact light and compact dark is known to be better for eyes, what's the point of keeping the current one the default?
what's the reasoning behind selecting the current color scheme, while it doesn't match to system-wide color scheme and not good for eyes?
"by design" doesn't justify the problematic design.

Comment 11

[Dão Gottwald [:dao]]

(In reply to Tooru Fujisawa [:arai] from comment #10)
> please do not close... :/
> 
> if compact light and compact dark is known to be better for eyes, what's the
> point of keeping the current one the default?

They're not known to be better for eyes. See Stephen's and my previous comments. If you have contradicting evidence, please present it. Until then this will remain closed.

Comment 13

[Geobert Quach]

Attachment: firefox_2017-09-25_10-16-45.png

I don't know if it's eye-straining, what I'm sure is that it doesn't follow the idea on Win 10: the background tabs are of the colour of the rest of the window. Here, we have this black bar and suddenly, Windows colour appears (blue for the default non Aero "Windows 7 Basic" theme)