1412609 - Remove the user option to specify local directory for the account.

Status: NEW

(Thunderbird :: Account Manager, enhancement)

Description

[Matt]

The use of the local directory in the account setting has for a long time been the source of troubles for users trying to migrate their profile to a new machine.  With the advent of "Controlled File Access" on Windows 10 and the issues with white-listing applications and folders that may be created with parts of the profile scattered over a number of drives and folders outside the main profile tree,  I think it is time that we bit the bullet and forced the entire profile into a single tree and leave the location setting to the profile manager alone.

Comment 1

[:aceman]

It seems "Controlled File Access" in Windows 10 only work with Windows defender, must be specifically set up for each folder and app and is disabled by default (no folders set up). Why should we change anything to support such edge case? If the user wants to use "Controlled File Access" he can leave the profile and account folders at the default values (inside the profile) and everything is fine. Why punish other users and removing the feature? I think powerusers may want "parts of the profile" (e.g. subfolders for individual accounts) "scattered over a number of drives". If we remove the feature, they will still do it with symlinks, which may cause even more problems when TB is not aware of that (it already does, there is a bug that symlinks get broken).

Comment 2

[Matt]

(In reply to :aceman from comment #1)

> Why punish other users and removing the
> feature? I think powerusers may want "parts of the profile" (e.g. subfolders
> for individual accounts) "scattered over a number of drives". If we remove
> the feature, they will still do it with symlinks, which may cause even more
> problems when TB is not aware of that (it already does, there is a bug that
> symlinks get broken).

I want it gone because it has been a support headache for the past decade.  People with no idea, or some very outdated ones from their Eudora and windows 3 days, think storing their data all over is a great idea.  But as a group we have not managed the fundamental of creating a migration path to a new machine for all this data scattered around like confetti.

Until Thunderbird develops a realistic and simple profile migration tool that even the drag with a finger crowd can use,  folk waste countless hours trying to diagnose just why a simple profile copy has not worked. Hencve I want to see the user interface gone.

If it is for power users then they do not need a user interface and they hopefully have the knowledge to migrate their profile and it's hard coded absolute paths to a new environment.  Hopefully the new environment has G:\MailOldMail.

But we still see users having issues migrating profiles between OSX, Window and Linux due to file system changes.  It is not as simple as just copying the %appdat%\Thunderbird structure and it should be.

Comment 3

[Wayne Mery (:wsmwk)]

Should we slim down the list of open bugs? bug 1651309, bug 949712, bug 1651640, bug 1651629

Comment 4

[Matt]

(In reply to Wayne Mery (:wsmwk) from comment #3)

Should we slim down the list of open bugs? bug 1651309, bug 949712, bug 1651640, bug 1651629

I would think so, as well as revisit the unsafe locations. So many use documents for email (makes backups easier apparently) with the result they get aggressive scanning etc that sees them land in support with apparently unrelated issues.

Comment 5

[Eric Moore]

My impression is that far more harm has occurred due to bugs in the detection of dangerous directories than it was intended to solve. I suggest it be lobotomized to only check for using "Documents" (and its equivalent on other operating systems) when the user tries to change a local directory..

Rather than trying to raise the barrier of entry perhaps it would be better to make existing menu commands such as tools -> export smart enough to detect that Local Folders is outside the profile directory and ask permission to merge it back into the exported profile.

Comment 6

[:aceman]

Why would Documents be problematic?
I don't see many bugs reported showing that the checks are actually wrong. E.g. bug 949712 linked here says nothing about the wrong detection, it seems to be a quirk of the Windows Vista folder picker (I think Vista is no longer supported) that it wants to pick folder imap/imap. Actually if we did not have the checks, the user's Local directory may be created in a different location he wanted (unnecessary one folder level) and he would have bigger problems correcting this. So that bug does not belong here (as a case supporting the bug here).

I can understand the support problems when users have manually set the Local directory to some folder outside their profile and then forget to migrate it to a new machine. But AFAIK Outlook also supports putting the pst file backing the whole mailbox anywhere.

Comment 7

[:aceman]

Similarly, if in bug 1651629 the user has Local directory inside the profile and still has problems migrating the profile (claiming maybe some absolute paths stored), then this bug 1412609 will not solve anything there.

Comment 8

[Matt]

(In reply to :aceman from comment #6)

Why would Documents be problematic?

File contention primarily and the much greater risk of it occurring in a non-hidden system folder. Thunderbird does not handle contention well, if at all. I really do not count making copies that will never be referred to subsequently as handling at all.

So things you might expect in a documents folder that would not generally be in a hidden system folder. Google Drive and it's buddies. Nothing like having the profile on a cloud synced location to turn life into a lottery. Plenty of reports in support forums of Thunderbird profiles being full of numbered versions of files. Reports of up to 100 copies of the pref.js from one individual that was complaining, settings did not save. Others have huge numbers of popostate.dat files, and everything on the server is downloading over and over. Personally, I have a collection of prefs.js and virtualfolders.dat from the time five years ago when I had an antivirus scanning the profile folder.

Comment 9

[:aceman]

prefs.js is in the profile and not in the local directory (where mail data is).
If popstate.dat files were duplicated, why weren't the mbox files too?
Yeah, so we are now fighting messed up syncing technologies from third parties.

Comment 10

[Matt]

But that is the environment Thunderbird runs in. Keeping data in the hidden system folders vastly reduces exposure to these things.