1506777 - Asking for close confirmation when quitting via the menu is unnecessary since it is already a two step process

Status: RESOLVED WONTFIX

(Firefox :: General, defect)

Description

[Kestrel]

Bug 1438499 added a close confirmation when quitting which affects File/Menu->Quit but it was intended behavior not to have a confirmation here according to Bug 644693 Comment 1:

> If you use the file exit it is intended not to ask you because it is a 2 step process

This makes sense and the lack of complaints over the years reflects this, the close confirmation in this case is naggy and unnecessary. If the user disables the warning here then they won't get one when closing windows which can be done in a single step process by accident.

Comment 1

[:Gijs (he/him)]

bug 1438499 comment #0 explicitly mentions the file > exit path and being surprised it doesn't show a dialog, so I think this is intentional. Markus?

Comment 2

[Markus Jaritz [:designakt] (UX)]

Yes it is. Here is why:
Showing the dialog if a uses has enabled it is most important on quick interactions, like hitting the x in the corner, or using the shortcut, true. The main reason for bug 1438499 was the shortcut. As Kestrel said, the dialog is not so important in a 2 step process, as we can assume the user does this more consciously (hopefully), but for consistency and clarity I would argue we should still apply the same behavior to closing through the menu. 
Because: 
- the preference for it is about "warn on quit and close multiple tabs" - not warn in some cases on quit and...
- the shortcut is listed on the button the menu, so both need to exhibit the same behavior

Kestrel, why do you see it as important to have no dialog when closing through the menu? 
What does this allow you to do, that you otherwise can not? What does it prevent you from doing?

Comment 3

[:Gijs (he/him)]

(In reply to Markus Jaritz [:designakt] (UX) from comment #2)
> Kestrel, why do you see it as important to have no dialog when closing
> through the menu? 
> What does this allow you to do, that you otherwise can not? What does it
> prevent you from doing?

-> +ni

Comment 4

[Kestrel]

My main concern is that users will turn it off here due to the annoyance of a three step process (Chrome is a two step process) and then be left without any warning when closing multiple tabs. 

(In reply to Markus Jaritz [:designakt] (UX) from comment #2)
> - the preference for it is about "warn on quit and close multiple tabs" - not warn in some 
> cases on quit and... 

It already doesn't warn for the case of a single tab (Bug 426849) where much the same concerns of accidentally quitting still apply. The wording of the preference ("Warn you when quitting and closing multiple tabs") is ambiguous if it applies to quitting with any number of tabs, quitting with multiple tabs and/or closing multiple tabs without quitting. It is also inconsistent with the the checkbox in the dialog ("Warn me when I attempt to close multiple tabs") which does not mention quitting.

> - the shortcut is listed on the button the menu, so both need to exhibit the same behavior

Sometimes consistency needs to be sacrificed in favor of better UX for special cases such as this. Chrome did a similar thing recently with Ctrl+Shift+Q now directing the user to press Alt+F and X, making it harder to quit by accident while still allowing quitting via the menu in two steps.

The root problem comes back to the multiple tab close confirmation being inadequate as a quit warning which has been an issue users have complained about for over a decade (Bug 502908). Separating it into its own dialog would greatly simplify and clarify the behavior, giving users the control they have been seeking. A lot of legacy issues similar to this were addressed by Quantum's Photon due to the deprecation of the old addon system that previously served as a solution (Bug 419009 Comment 142) but this quit warning issue seems to have slipped through the cracks.

Comment 5

[Albert Scheiner [:alberts]]

Markus, this might be just me, but I have "learned" over the years that if I close a window, get this dialog and agree, these tabs are gone from my session. When I quite the whole browser and don't get the dialog, then session restore is enabled and I will get my tabs back.

So this dialog is for me equal to / implies removing the tabs from my current session and not getting them back when restarting the browser. That's why when the dialog suddenly showed up after updating to 65 I didn't close my browser anymore until finally finding time to filing Bug 1507439 which lead me to this one and others.

Comment 6

[Albert Scheiner [:alberts]]

Sorry for bug spam, forgot to mention that the pre-photon menu (hamburger) included a "Quit" button (macOS here) which also didn't trigger the dialog in cases where Cmd+Q did (can't remember the details). So automatically when the dialog came up and I thought I would loose my 191 tabs if I'd agree, I tried to close via the menu (macOS menu) hoping to get around the dialog.

Comment 7

[:Gijs (he/him)]

(In reply to Kestrel from comment #4)
> My main concern is that users will turn it off here due to the annoyance of
> a three step process (Chrome is a two step process) and then be left without
> any warning when closing multiple tabs. 

I don't see a reasonable way to avoid this. If we did exactly what you suggested, I'd worry people would be "left without any warning" when quitting Firefox as they always have. There's no way to please everyone. I'd also argue people wouldn't be surprised at the lack of warning if they turn this off, given that the checkbox says "warn me when I attempt to close multiple tabs", which is pretty explicit. 

> (In reply to Markus Jaritz [:designakt] (UX) from comment #2)
> > - the preference for it is about "warn on quit and close multiple tabs" - not warn in some 
> > cases on quit and... 
> 
> It already doesn't warn for the case of a single tab (Bug 426849) where much
> the same concerns of accidentally quitting still apply.

I don't think it's useful to discuss a different bug here. The point is always closing more than 1 tab, ie closing something the user can't really see, whether that's through quitting or some other mechanism.

> The wording of the
> preference ("Warn you when quitting and closing multiple tabs") is ambiguous
> if it applies to quitting with any number of tabs, quitting with multiple
> tabs and/or closing multiple tabs without quitting. It is also inconsistent
> with the the checkbox in the dialog ("Warn me when I attempt to close
> multiple tabs") which does not mention quitting.

I don't really agree, but either way, if you want to help rephrase the checkbox, do chime in in bug 1506173 which is about clarifying this dialog.

> > - the shortcut is listed on the button the menu, so both need to exhibit the same behavior
> 
> Sometimes consistency needs to be sacrificed in favor of better UX for
> special cases such as this.

A bunch of us met up and talked about this today, and there was broad consensus that this isn't one of those cases. It didn't make sense that the quit warning was conditional on sessionrestore (ie that was inconsistent). Now that that's fixed, introducing another inconsistency isn't going to improve things. People will wonder why manually going through the process doesn't warn and the shortcut does different things. It becomes impossible to succinctly describe what the preference does, which is already a factor in other complaints which people deem to be the same (cf. comment #6).

> The root problem comes back to the multiple tab close confirmation being
> inadequate as a quit warning which has been an issue users have complained
> about for over a decade (Bug 502908).

But the situation is already substantially different than a decade ago, in that tabs are now always saved. I'd also point out that comment #0 there kind of undercuts your case, as the reporter specified using File and then Exit, yet is surprised at the lack of warning...

Per the discussion with a number of UX folks, we won't be fixing this.