Would it be possible to use Cmd-+ for Bigger text, like in Mozilla and other browsers, it's more logical. I was not able to test Cmd-. to stop loading but generally Cmd-. are seldomly working correctly with international keyboard. Using Escape would be like in several other browsers.
Assignee: saari → pinkerton
Summary: Bigger text as + and Stop as Escape → [RFE] Bigger text as + and Stop as Escape
Chimera uses Command+= currently, just the same as Mozilla. Mozilla calls it "Command +", though since shift isn't held it isn't actually +. This is WFM using Chimera/20020621.
Ditto what Greg said. We should eventually set the keyboard shortcuts to work best for whatever keyboard goes with the default language on the user's machine; this falls under that big "Internationalize/Localize Chimera" heading. Mapping esc to stop loading seems like a good idea; cmd-. and esc are usually interchangable, and esc doesn't do anything right now. Cmd-. has to the listed shortcut for stop loading in the English version, however.
In Mozilla 1.1a Bigger text is on a French keyboard accessible via cmd-= and cmd-+ (equals cmd-shift-=) but on numeric keypad cmd-= or cmd-+ are also working. On french keyboard + is shift-= above = on the key. May I suggest to use these keys in Chimera: cmd-arrow up/down for font size that will solve the intl problem. Cmd-= can be use to re/set back the font size to the default one on page?or?pref, new feature. Esc can stop page downloading, very handy any Mac able to use OS X has an Escape key. Esc when not downloading, can stop gif animations. Esc = Cancel in a dialog
Mapping many commands into one key depending on a certain "mode" is never a really good idea. Let's assume I want to stop loading, and press Esc, only to find that all GIF animations have now stopped, since the downloading turned out to be quick enough to end before I got around to pressing Esc. Not nice. Just have the Esc key mirror Command-Period's functionality (in dialogs and in the browser view).
A summary of European keyboard-safe shortcuts is in bug 36048. On the Classic side Command-. was a special combination that worked even on keyboards that require shift for typing the period. I haven't tested with OS X, though. I think shortcuts should be considered as an internationalization issue rather than a localization issue. There are a lot of people who use the main U.S. English version with non-U.S. keyboards. Leaving shortcut compatibility up to the localizations doesn't help those users.
Target Milestone: Chimera0.5 → Chimera0.9
Summary: [RFE] Bigger text as + and Stop as Escape → Bigger text as + and Stop as Escape
On both consumer and professional Mac laptops, plus and minus keys are also on the numeric keypad. On a desktop these keys would stand out much more clearly, but ont he laptops, where space is at a premium, a compromise was made to still have a numeric keypad without carrying extra keys and keyboards around with the laptop. They achieve similating a numeric keypad by remapping select keys on the keyboard with a special laptop-only "Fn" (function) key. The 10-key pad keys are written on other keys in the corner in small blue type and are activated by simply holding down function with the left pinky finger and entering 10-key on the appropriate blue labelled keys. (This also allows you to have a virtual numeric key pad using the normal size keys in the middle region of the keyboard to avoid fatigue of using a more crammed keyboard. In fact, all these keys measure out to be the same size as the full size keyboard. The only smaller than normal keys are the non-alpha-numeric keys like F1-F12, enter/return, etc.) The characters in this chart on the left are the black regular unmodified keys. The right side characters in quotes are what is actually entered when function is held down in combination with them. 6=Clear 7="7" 8="8" 9="9" 0="/" -="=" U="4" I="5" O="6" P="*" J="1" K="2" L="3" ;="-" M="0" ,=(n/a) .="." /="+" Example: to type 5+2= .. With your left hand finger of choice (pinky usually), you would simply hold the blue fn key in the corner. you would hold the blue function key and with your free right hand, just type: I/K-. (trust me, this makes more sense when you see it, because the keys are color coded. iBooks and Powerbooks are both the same in this respect at least on the US keyboard. The function key is not present on the regular keyboard. It seems not seen to be seen by software, so my guess is it's a hardware level implement that sends from these keys the same codes as if they were the keys on a numeric keypad of a normal USB keyboard. Therefore, we don't have to have seperate keymaps for laptops or desktops to address the + and - differences on the numeric keypad. The exception to this rule is the use of the f12 key on ibooks for a substitute "eject" key. This isn't a concern for us thought because as far s I understand browser technology, there's nothing to eject in a browser. I think that the eject key (on a standard keyboard) is reserved and non-acessible to regular applications anyways at the OS level. So, with that information about + and - (are you more confused now or less?) in mind... possible solutions are: SOLUTION 1: The - and + keys on the numeric keypad ARE distinguishable in software from their counterparts on the top key row of the regular alpha-numeric portion of the keyboard. Mac BU at Microsoft has already tackled this problem obviously in noting IE 5.2's behavior here. It treats them by symbolic location, instead of by proper key combination.. Under IE, (technically speaking) it is command + '-' and command + '=' on the alphanumeric section of keys... BUT on the keypad, it's command + "+" and command + "-" .. When you use the browser, by touch and don't like to stare at the keyboard to figure out technicalities, this seems to be the best solution, because you aren't stumbling to see which key may also normally have to be shifted to represent + or -. I think it's an OK compromise and given that one major browser does this already, perhaps OK just to adopt their model. In this case, for Chimera to be both easy to use, memorable and consistent by the "+" and "-" key symbols, I think emphasis should be placed in this one exception on the location of the symbols moreso than the technical correctness of their labelling in regards to wether or not it would normally be shifted or not to produce those characters in a text document, Chimera already mirrors IE behavior EXCEPT that on the numeric keypad, you end up having to use Command + "=" in lieu of Command + "+" which doesn't work. So I would suggest to simply remap the numeric keypad version of these keys only only so that it only pays attention to the correctness of the symbols preseent on the keys instead of wether or not the nee to be shifted. People who get edgy about definitions can simply put a "+" sticker covering up the = sign on than one infernal key that is causing this kind of discussion to be necessary, and then handed a sticker that says, "don't worry be happy!" SOLUTION 2: People who are "convenience" orientated personalities will argue against having to shift the "=" key to produce a "+" because its too cumbersome, yet on the flip side, people who are "technical propriety" driven will insist that the key with "=" on it is only an "=" key unless it's shifted, and then it and only then it becomes a "+" key. You can't satisfy both... This is an issue of point of view. For example: Is Command + "<" just Command and pressing key that has "<""," on it, or does that key that has both symbols *have* to be shifted before it is allowed to be called a "<"..? I say avoid the whole issue and use Command + uparrow/downarrow. This is by far the simplest, most unconfusing, most directly logical way to macro increase/decrease text size. SOLUTION 3: Use command+shift+"+" and command+shift+"-" in all terminology. If you approach it like you've been told to do it, this can only have one meaning wether it's proper or not.. and implement it as command shift -, = for keyboard and command shift -, + for the numeric keypad. Still confused? Back to idea # 2 or ahead to # 4. SOLUTION 5: Recall solution 2.. just use any set of keys that mentally correspond to the increase or decrease of a value or position. Choose a new pair of macro keys that are paired visually as opposites, but not allocated to any function yet. There are two available possibilites for this. They are: • "(" (Cmd + Shift + 9) for smaller and ")" (Cmd + Shift + 0) for larger. These parenthesis are both shifted keys, and they only have one location on the keyboard. There should be no confusion. The problem is that parenthesis are not the first thing I think of when I equate something to size.. • "<" (Cmd + Shift + ,) for smaller and ">" (Cmd + Shift + .) for larger. These greater or less-than keys look like arrows, represent opposite functions, and even mathematically-speaking less than or greater than makes sense in terms of size comparisons... making command + lesser than or command + greater than mcuh better choices for these keyboard shortcuts! * The only other viable choice I can see is to forget the complexity of internationalization of the keyboard presets, but to simply create a preference item letting the user choose the keys that make the most sense to them. We can show who the real browser communist is (M$) by making Chimera more open for user configuration in problems like these.. More choices for the user -AND- less headaches in the bug complaint/feature request department, right? Of course this is more difficult to implement than just changing the keys, so I think perhaps switching the defaults to use < and > with command for now is a quick fix, and allowing the user to pick later is a better full solution.
bigger fish to fry
Target Milestone: Chimera0.9 → Chimera1.1
(In reply to comment #8) > bigger fish to fry You say that, because you have an US keyboard. In Camino enlarging text is command-= which is a three keys combo on a German keyboard (command-shift-0). In other browsers it's command-+ which is just these two keys and logical and easy to press. Makes sufficient difference to be annoyed at Camino whenever I want to enlarge text. Please add command-+ as keyboard shortcut for bigger text.
*** Bug 287407 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
*** Bug 179606 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Created attachment 178400 [details] [diff] [review] Proposed patch to fix both issues. This *should* fix both of these issues, but I humbly request that someone compile with this patch and make sure (a) it does what I said, and (b) it doesn't break anything. ;)
Assignee: pinkerton → mozilla
Status: NEW → ASSIGNED
Attachment #178400 - Attachment is obsolete: true
Created attachment 178536 [details] [diff] [review] Patch v2 Eeep, I was catching all the key down events and not passing them on instead of catching just the escape key (thanks, Simon). New patch!
Status: ASSIGNED → RESOLVED
Last Resolved: 14 years ago
Resolution: --- → FIXED
*** Bug 176900 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
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