1658559 - In 78 Mail Toolbar Customise is missing the option to 'Add new toolbar'

Status: RESOLVED WONTFIX

(Thunderbird :: Toolbars and Tabs, defect)

Description

[Anje]

Attachment: Customise Diff 68-78.jpg

User Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:79.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/79.0

Steps to reproduce:

Windows 10
Thunderbird 78.1.1
Menu app icon > Customise > Toolbar Layout
OR
Right click on 'Mail toolbar' and select 'Customise'.

Actual results:

'Customise Toolbar' window opens.
The option 'add new toolbar' is missing.
It is available in version 68.11.0, but not version 78.1.1, so it went missing possibly in 78.0.

Expected results:

Expected to have the option to 'Add New Toolbar'.

This option needs to be added.

This problem was brought to my attention by some one in the support forum complaining that the Tag toolbar addon that has been made suitable to work in version 78 did not offer a new toolbar. I was about to inform them that they could do it in Thunderbird and checked. You cannot. This needs fixing.

Comment 2

[Anje]

Magnus are you sure it is duplicate of bug 1556261. That bug is talking about customise options in the Message Header which in 78 there isn't any functionality to Customise and it needs to be implemented again.
I am not talking about Customise options in the Message Header.

I'm talking about Customising on 'Mail Toolbar'. In the image supplied, the 'options at the bottom' of the window in the 78 version need to be identical to the options in the 68 version. It would be useful if the design of the layout was the same as the old design keeping a more linear esthetic layout. It means in support forums we are not needing to offer various options of advice depending upon what version you are using. If you can keep some things the same then it really helps.

Comment 3

[Anje]

If you think reimplementing something that currently does not exist in version 78 - Customise Message Header - is the same as reimplementing the functionality to 'add new toolbar' option only into the currently available Customise Mail Toolbar, then ok.
If not then this bug is not quite the same and not resolved.

Comment 4

[Magnus Melin [:mkmelin]]

Ah, correct, not a duplicate.
IIRC the option to add another toolbar was removed during de-xbl of whichever binding this used to be. I don't think there's any reason to bring that back.

Comment 5

[Anje]

(In reply to Magnus Melin [:mkmelin] from comment #4)

Ah, correct, not a duplicate.
IIRC the option to add another toolbar was removed during de-xbl of whichever binding this used to be. I don't think there's any reason to bring that back.

Except for the people who are asking in the support forum who need it because they store specific items on it which they enable as required.
I only realised it was missing after being asked a question about where was it.
People use Thunderbird differently and it's ability to customise sets it apart from all others.
I do not use it and obviously you do not use it as you would not have made that comment, but your or my opinion based on how we use Thunderbird should not influence what is required for others. It is not relevant nor a reason to remove what is vital to another person.

I do not believe the removal of customisation is in the spirit of Thunderbird. It is what makes Thunderbird so good.

It may also be effecting an addon called TagToolbar which would allow a load of tags to be placed on a separate toolbar. Some people use many tags in their work and need the additional toolbar to occupy them. The author of that addon has spent time to get their addon working in 78. I'm not certain if this removal of 'add new toolbar' has effected that addon, but it would seem a possibility and that addon has a good following.

Comment 6

[Magnus Melin [:mkmelin]]

Sorry but it isn't coming back. Firefox removed the ability to add toolbars since long ago. Ideally we should use the same code as they do.

Comment 7

[Thomas D. (:thomas8)]

(In reply to Magnus Melin [:mkmelin] from comment #6)

Sorry but it isn't coming back. Firefox removed the ability to add toolbars since long ago. Ideally we should use the same code as they do.

So do we have an API for addons to add their own toolbars if they need them? Looks like an obvious usecase for adddons.

Comment 8

[Magnus Melin [:mkmelin]]

We don't, and I don't think we want that either - we don't want add-ons messing up our UI. Like Firefox, add-ons can add buttons which will be added to the main toolbar, and that will show an overflow as necessary.

Comment 9

[Anje]

re :Firefox removed the ability to add toolbars since long ago. Ideally we should use the same code as they do.... we don't want add-ons messing up our UI.

Firefox has nothing to do with it; that is rather an irrelevant comment. Firefox does not operate in the same way and does not have the same needs. Thunderbird cannot be compared and it shouldn't be.

I find it worrying that you appear dismissive to users requirements. It implies you assume everyone works the same way as you.

If you personally feel that you do not want Addons 'messing up our UI' then the options need to be automatically included.

Comment 10

[Matt]

My personal issue here is that the Thunderbird UI is not at all what I want and I find myself battling to regain some sort of control over what has become a very difficult and unwieldy interface. I do not use any of the buttons on the ugly and hugely space-wasting message header and never have. The compact header has always managed that nicely for me hiding that quarter of a screen worth of wasted space. I have little of no interest in reading messages in new windows of tabs, so every line of UI wanted to offer me things I do not want is really hard to cope with.

I am far more likely to want a second toolbar on the top of my main window to actually hold the toolbar header controls and I am ever to want to have a toolbar on the message header I do not see.

Perhaps a redesign of the whole UI is overdue, but cutting off user options simply because they are inconvenient or do not match the firefox browser use case is not going to be helpful in retaining power users. It is difficult to support a product that is simply not meeting my own needs.

I see Jorg suggesting in bug 1556261 simply reverting until a suitable replacement toolbar is offered. I can think of nothing better at this point than going back to something that meets user needs from something that does not.

Comment 11

[V S Rawat]

Adding to that:

I was/ am using add-on TagToolbar, renamed to TagPopup that used a toolbar.

But, due to TB prohibiting addition of toolbars by addons, the author had to delete that toolbar, and the addon has lost all the convenience of handling.

I have some 20,000 tags, that I used to display in a 3 line toolbar in previous version of that addon. That was all my recent tags and if I was working on a set duration, the tags for that duration could be displayed right on the toolbar, and I could click the tag to add, and click again to untag. So convenient.

Now toolbar is gone and I have to type our entire tag then it finds that in my 20,000 tags and shows and I click to tag, and if I have to untag, I have to do this again and then untick that tag no.

It has become a burden to use that addon now. The developer is also equally dissatified at the denial of toolbar.

I don't know if ff had already removed toolbars by developers, as I was not using any addon toolbar in ff, so "as A has done so, B must to that" logic doesn't hold water.

When toolbars are needed for functioning of TB, these should not have been removed so summarily, just because "Big Bro FF has done so." FF is different and TB is different.

If TB insists on removal of addon toolbars, TB developers should (develop if not already present and) release the TB code for adding a toolbar, and let developers use that code to add their own toolbar somewhere as a part of addon's functioning. This will not be a main TB toolbar, yet this will be a toolbar. This way each developer of addon will not be spending eons of time in developing the same code.

Please mark "removal of toolbar" as a bug in TB, until TB allows toolbars again, or releases code for developers to use to make their own toolbars.

Thanks.