17124 - No HTML to usenet on default

Status: VERIFIED DUPLICATE of bug 13767

(MailNews Core :: Composition, defect, P3)

Description

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

This is one of the "failing" items in the Good Netkeeping Seal of Approval (see
URL above). See also <URL:http://www.xs4all.nl/%7Ejs/gnksa/gnksa.txt>.

<quote>
17) Post human-readable articles unless ordered otherwise

Posting software MUST by default post only legible usenet articles.  In
a different formulation: it MUST NOT encode or encrypt articles, unless
by explicit user demand.  Hence, it MUST NOT even have the option to
encode or encrypt by default.  Whenever some encoding/encryption will be
used, clear feedback showing that it's in effect MUST be provided to the
user, so she is permanently reminded of the fact that her article will
not be posted as composed.  The worst DO NOT is the combination of
allowing default encoding without even taking the trouble of telling
(warning) the user about it.

Note: Common occurrences of this kind of content maiming unasked for,
      and untold to, the user, are HTML- and MIME multi-part
      and/or base64 encodings, as found in newsreaders integrated in
      WWW-browsers better not mentioned.

Rationale: Many users may not be able to read (particular) encoded or
encrypted articles at all, or only at the expense of a considerable
effort: such articles ask to be widely ignored. Encouraging posting
maimed messages is a service neither to the user herself, nor to her
audience.  Keep in mind that not everyone shares your particular setup
(newsreader, configuration, operating system), nor should (and can)
anyone be forced to do so, in order to be able to read your articles.
</quote>

This lets space for interpretation: (is setting the default of the "Ask"-dialog
to "Send plain text" enough?

See thread on n.p.m.mail-news, too:
news://news.mozilla.org/[e-mail] or
http://www.deja.com/msgid.xp?MID=<[e-mail]>

Comment 1

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

Setting dependency and Phil on cc, since he filed the other GNKSA-Bugs.

Comment 2

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

Correcting wrong dependency field, step 1

Comment 3

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

Correcting wrong dependency field, step 2. Sorry for the spam.

Comment 4

[John Moreno]

Setting the default of the "Ask" dialog wouldn't be enough -- the requirement is

that the user must either decide for each message, or newsgroup/hierarchy.



Netscape 4.x already has methods for doing both, but it also gives the choice

of saying "I want every news message, regardless of group, to be in html".



This is considered wrong as long as the vast majority of groups are text only,

private servers usually use a hierarchy that can be recognized, so depending

upon just how it's implemented, this shouldn't be a hardship on the users.

Comment 5

[Phil Peterson]

> Netscape 4.x already has methods for doing both, but it also gives the choice
> of saying "I want every news message, regardless of group, to be in html".

No, it doesn't. We do compose in HTML by default, but there is no setting to
automatically send HTML to news without user permission.

Now that mozilla has separate prefs for each mail or news account, I think I'd
transform this bug to be "by default, news identities should default to
composing plain text messages". Anyone object to that?

Comment 6

[lchiang]

Seth already has this bug http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13767.

Comment 7

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

13767 is closely related, thus not the same.

Phil, according to GNKSA, the first "default" must go away. (You can argue, if
the plain text /editor/ is necessary, but it certainly makes sense.) When
accepting all defaults during composition, the resulting msg MUST be plain text
and there MUST NOT be a chance to change that.

I tested 4.x with prefs "Compose in HTML" and "Send HTML" and after using
formatting, I indeed get the "Ask"-dialog (what surprised me), but the default
is "Send HTML and plain text", what is a violation of the GNKSA requirements.

Comment 8

[Phil Peterson]

The "ask me" dialog only comes up when you compose HTML and we're not sure that
all recipients like HTML. So, if we make composing in plain text the default for
news (as 13767 says), there is no opportunity to get the "ask me" dialog, or to
mistakenly choose the initially selected radio button (which is
multipart/alternative) in that dialog. Right?

Comment 9

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

No, there is a opportunity to get the dialog: If the user changes the prefs.

"Hence, it MUST NOT even have the option to encode or encrypt by default." This
means, that defaults for prefs are no criteria. The defaults for an individual
msg with the worst prefs decide.

Note: This is not my opinion. I think, it is plain stupid to work for taking
options from the user. 13767 is OK for me. I just want to make clear, what GNKSA
requires. I leave it up to you (all) to decide, if this bug is worth to fail the
GNKSA. (I hope, we will meet the other requirements and get some reputation
back.)

Comment 10

[Phil Peterson]

I'm not sure I agree with your interpretation (that we fail if there is a
non-default option to compose or send HTML to newsgroups) but if yours is the
correct interpretation, I'm willing to fail on that point. Marking this bug a
dup.


*** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of 13767 ***

Comment 11

[Alec Flett]

I also disagree with your interpretation...

I actually interpret that as "There should not be any way to change the default
such that all messages are encoded" so that even in preferences, we should not
have the "Send HTML mail" checkbox UI for news identities...so that the only
way, no matter what your preferences are, to make HTML newsposts is by
explicitly setting it with EACH message.

And in this case, I think the GNSKA restrictions are flawed and they
unnecessarily restrict news clients. There may be very good cases for sending
HTML news by default, such as if a company has a private news server.

Comment 12

[John Moreno]

No, the requirement is NOT that user has to set html for EACH message, it is that

the user be unable to set it for EVERY message.  Similar, but not quite the same

thing.



Having a preference that says "every message that goes to alt.we.like.html shall

be in html" is fine, as is having a preference that says "every message to any of

the groups in the hierarchy netscape.* shall be in html", but having a preference

that says "every news message shall be in html" is not fine.



Since private servers usually create a hierarchy for their own groups

(recommended practice in any case), if a company makes it the policy that all of

their groups be in html, that isn't a problem -- ExampleCo runs a news server

named news.exampleco.com, with newsgroups like exampleco.sales.reps and

exampleco.sales.service, then you have a preference that says "any message posted

in the exampleco hierarchy shall be in html".



A bit of work on the HTML Domains for email could make it suitable for news as

well as mail.

Comment 13

[Phil Peterson]

> Having a preference that says "every message that goes to alt.we.like.html
> shall be in html" is fine, as is having a preference that says "every message
> to any of the groups in the hierarchy netscape.* shall be in html", but having
> a preference that says "every news message shall be in html" is not fine.

By those criteria, 4.x passes, and so will mozilla when the HTML "intelligent
send" logic gets ported/rewritten to mozilla (see bug 17072).

Comment 14

[fenella]

Mark verified/dup.

Comment 15

[fenella]

Mark verified/dup.