Open Bug 1835332 Opened 1 year ago Updated 1 month ago

Improve and consolidate font size control for TB UI, mail reader content, and mail editor content

Categories

(Thunderbird :: Preferences, enhancement)

Product:
Thunderbird
Component:
Preferences
Version:
Thunderbird 112
Platform:
Unspecified
All
Type:
enhancement

Tracking

(Not tracked)

Status:
UNCONFIRMED

People

(Reporter: dmccammishjr, Unassigned)

References

Details

(Whiteboard: [snnot3p])

User Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:109.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/113.0

Steps to reproduce:

See bug #1824184. Control of font size in mail editor, main screen, and received mail is covered by three different unlinked actions:

Actual results:

  1. Settings, Language & Appearance, Fonts & Colors controls the mail editor (only). This control does not affect received message text size.
  2. The "Hamburger" menu, View, Font Size controls the main window font size (only). This control does not affect individual message text.
  3. Windows CTRL-+/- will scale any open message window, but does not affect the main TB window. (Varies with platform, not under TB control.)

Expected results:

Redesign the font size controls and/or consolidate or cross-reference the menus.

For a vision impaired Thunderbird user, it would be nice to be able to set font size/scale in received mail in TB and not have to scale each new message. (See #3 above)

From a user point of view :

  1. It's difficult to understand the impact of these 3 features. Hard to understand what they control precisely and what are their impacts;
    -> The area of action of each of these features should be better exposed to users
  2. It's difficult too to find them all to know the possibilities and maybe combine them;
    -> Would be nice the UI to better guide the user between these possibilities. And maybe nice to have them all together in a Settings/Accessibilitysection;
  3. The place & label of the setting Settings/General/Language & Appearance/Fonts & Colors make it confusing : nothing say it's for composing a new message only. It's place in General make it seems it's affecting the UI, or UI and content.
    -> Would be better placed in the Settings/Write section it seems (next to the HTML style).
OS: Unspecified → All
Summary: Improve and consolidate font size control for TB main window, received mail, and mail editor → Improve and consolidate font size control for TB UI, mail reader content, and mail editor content
Whiteboard: [snnot3p]

I thought there was no way to get readable fonts in the settings. So yes, that option in the corner menu should appear in the settings page too.

You can control ALL font size via the 'Config Editor'
Preference: layout.css.devPixelsPerPx
has default NEGATIVE -1.0 setting.
If you edit and use a POSITIVE 1.25 or 1.5 it will increase th overall font size because it has increased the pixel size.
therefore no need to alter any other font if this is a general overall increase required.

You can now control all font sizes via the 'Menu Bar' - this was introduced because it's more user friendly than using Config Editor.
View > Font size> select increase or decrease font size as require.
In the menu app icon there is 'Font size' and you clicko n the - or + icons to increase/decrease pixel size of font.

But if like me you find the default font setting may be perfectly ok for general UI, but you want to modify the font size for reading incoming mail and creating new emails, then you access Settings to adjust specifics for incoming unicode/western etc font settings.

You can control the Font size as displayed in Message Pane:
Settings > General > Language & Appearance > Fonts & Colors - click on 'Advanced'.
The Font Size you set will determine what is deemed as 'Medium'.
The minimum font size will force any size font less than the setting to be displayed using that minimum font size.
So if Minimum font size is 12 then any fonts in Messages that use less than 12 will get auto displayed using 12.
Always set up 'Fonts for 'Latin' and 'Other Writing Systems' and any other specific langauge type you use eg: Greek
Always set up each one with identical font size settings.

Settings > Composition > HTML Style
Advise you use 'Variable width' and Font Size 'Medium'
These settings mean it does not force your preferred settings onto other people.
It means the 'Medium' will use the font size you set up here:
Settings > General > Language & Appearance > Fonts & Colors - click on 'Advanced'.

In addition to this, you can manipulate an increase in a font size when creating a new mail - maybe you are creating a topic header and want it a size incremented larger. The Formatting Bar' has the 'T' increase and decrease option for one off alterations.

I find the current set up is now very easy to control.
It goes wrong when users set up incorrect settings that clash or override other settings. eg: setting up a minimum font size that is larger than all other font size settings.

The config editor is exceedingly hard to read, because it ignores the other font settings.

The setting in the config editor can increase all font sizes, but it increases everything else, too, so it doesn't address this. People may need to increase font sizes while leaving room for message lists and messages.

(In reply to MarjaE from comment #5)

The config editor is exceedingly hard to read, because it ignores the other font settings.

The setting in the config editor can increase all font sizes, but it increases everything else, too, so it doesn't address this. People may need to increase font sizes while leaving room for message lists and messages.

I have already stated how to set up general ui and how to set up fonts in Opened emails and emails you compose.
The config editor method is ONLY used to increase the size of a pixels, thus meaning a font size of 12px will still be a size 12px but appear larger.
The value entered depends upon the OS you are using. This gets applied generically.

The method via Menu app or Menu Bar toolbar to increase 'Font Size' was created to help people alter generic font size by increasing the font size egL 12 pixels to 14 pixels. This is not exactly the same as the previous method. but has same effect to increase generic font size visually.

Both of the above often resolve all issues regarding visibility but are not used together - use one or the other,

The Settings > General ' Language and appearance' section is for reading and writing emails and setting up specific values.

Most people seem to not understand what all the various settings mean and what they can do.
But I have already put up information in comment 4 on how the various font size settings work. So now it's clear.

In all cases and I've helped out on a lot - all cases were found to be users not settings up correctly - in the vast majority of cases, people set up settings which were clashing. People did not seem to understand that setting a minimum font size of a higher value than the medium used meant the medium was overruled. I've seen a lot of oddities.

I would advise people.
If you have a problem with getting all your font sizes sorted out then ask this in the Thunderbird Support forum.
This is not a Support Forum.

(In reply to doug2 from comment #0)

User Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:109.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/113.0

  1. Settings, Language & Appearance, Fonts & Colors controls the mail editor (only). This control does not affect received message text size.

It effects messages you read and messages you write.
If you have only set up for 'Latin' and not 'Other Writing Systems' then you may find it only effects specific x-western encodings and not unicode'
Ask for help in the Thunderbird Support Forum. This is more likely you have not set up everything correctly.

  1. The "Hamburger" menu, View, Font Size controls the main window font size (only). This control does not affect individual message text.

It will not effect individual messages if they already have html code controlling the font size and you do not have settings set up to over rule it or if you have set a much larger setting in the SEttings > General > Languages & appearance font for section.
Increasing a generic font from 12px to 12px will not effect anything if mail mesages are set up to use 16 px.
It depends upon what other setting you have set up. ASk for help in the Thunderbird Support Forum.

  1. Windows CTRL-+/- will scale any open message window, but does not affect the main TB window. (Varies with platform, not under TB control.)

Correct. It has always been the case.

Component: Untriaged → Preferences
See Also: → 1854607

It would be helpful to understand what is going on if those with a 'bug' could post this info:
In Thunderbird

  • Help > Troubleshooting Information
  • scroll down to 'Important Modified Preferences'
  • Copy all lines that start with 'font.' and paste info into this bug report.

That's another place where the font size settings don't work... the text is painfully small.

font.default.x-unicode serif
font.internaluseonly.changed true
font.language.group x-unicode
font.minimum-size.ar 20
font.minimum-size.he 20
font.minimum-size.ja 20
font.minimum-size.ko 20
font.minimum-size.th 20
font.minimum-size.tr 20
font.minimum-size.Util.elm 20
font.minimum-size.x-armn 20
font.minimum-size.x-baltic 20
font.minimum-size.x-beng 20
font.minimum-size.x-cans 20
font.minimum-size.x-central-euro 20
font.minimum-size.x-cyrillic 13
font.minimum-size.x-devanagari 20
font.minimum-size.x-ethi 20
font.minimum-size.x-geor 20
font.minimum-size.x-gujr 20
font.minimum-size.x-guru 20
font.minimum-size.x-khmr 20
font.minimum-size.x-knda 20
font.minimum-size.x-mlym 20
font.minimum-size.x-orya 20
font.minimum-size.x-sinh 20
font.minimum-size.x-tamil 20
font.minimum-size.x-telu 20
font.minimum-size.x-tibt 20
font.minimum-size.x-unicode 16
font.minimum-size.x-western 13
font.minimum-size.zh-CN 20
font.minimum-size.zh-HK 20
font.minimum-size.zh-TW 20
font.name.monospace.x-unicode Andika
font.name.monospace.x-western Andika
font.name.sans-serif.x-unicode Andika
font.name.sans-serif.x-western Andika
font.name.serif.x-unicode Andika
font.name.serif.x-western Andika
font.size.fixed.x-western 20
font.size.monospace.x-unicode 20
font.size.monospace.x-western 20
font.size.variable.x-unicode 20
font.size.variable.x-western 20

(In reply to MarjaE from comment #5)

The config editor is exceedingly hard to read, because it ignores the other font settings.

The setting in the config editor can increase all font sizes, but it increases everything else, too, so it doesn't address this. People may need to increase font sizes while leaving room for message lists and messages.

Menu app icon > Font Size > what is the pixel size in this location?

In Settings > Composition
Under 'HTML Style'
Font 'Variable'
Size: 'Medium'
Do you have these settings ? If no - what have you chosen?

In config editor

  • locate: layout.css.devPixelsPerPx
  • The default is a negative number -1.0
  • What number do you currently have in this location - is it a negative number or a positive number ? -Post an image showing what you see.

On your computer :

  • what is the screen resolution eg: 1920 x 1080 and what is the scale eg: 100% , 250% etc ?
Flags: needinfo?(erwinm)

Menu app icon

What?

In Settings > Composition

Variable, medium. I don't use html for composition, because fancy formatting makes things harder to read, and sometimes causes buggy formatting.

In config editor

This section has painfully small text. It's set to -1.0. At this value, the text in the config editor is way too small. If I increase the value to 1.5 or 2, text in the config editor is reasonably sized, but the header at the top of the Thunderbird window is way too big, and the headers for mail messages can use almost half of the screen, leaving little room for message lists and messages.

On your computer

1920x1080, 100%. I've experimented with larger sizes, but then text can get blurry, apps may not fit on the screen, etc.

Flags: needinfo?(erwinm)

The config editor is hidden for a reason.
devPuxelsPerPx is -1.0

Settings: Composition, my settings are standard - HTML Variable Width and Medium

Per Windows: Screen resolution is 1920 x 1080 100%

Settings: General Fonts & Colors Default Font Ariel size 20

In the "hamburger" menu View density standard font size 19 px

My eyes are not good. I use Windows Dark Mode always and the Mozilla-supplied System Theme - Auto
I occasionally use CTRL + & - to enlarge a window, but prefer not.

(In reply to doug2 from comment #12)

The config editor is hidden for a reason.
devPuxelsPerPx is -1.0
Settings: Composition, my settings are standard - HTML Variable Width and Medium
Per Windows: Screen resolution is 1920 x 1080 100%
Settings: General Fonts & Colors Default Font Ariel size 20
In the "hamburger" menu View density standard font size 19 px

My eyes are not good. I use Windows Dark Mode always and the Mozilla-supplied System Theme - Auto
I occasionally use CTRL + & - to enlarge a window, but prefer not.

Do you only have an issue with the email content ?
In Thunderbird

  • Help > Troubleshooting Information
  • scroll down to 'Important Modified Preferences'
  • Copy all lines that start with 'font.' and paste info into this bug report.
Flags: needinfo?(dmccammishjr)

(In reply to MarjaE from comment #11)

Menu app icon

What?

Menu app icon > Font Size > what is the pixel size in this location?

That means click on the 'menu app' icon - it is on the far right of the Unified Toolbar - it has 3 horizontal lines.

Flags: needinfo?(erwinm)

TB 119.0b3 Win 11 64 "font" from "Important Modified Preferences"

font.internaluseonly.changed false
font.minimum-size.x-unicode 12
font.minimum-size.x-western 12
font.name.monospace.tr Consolas
font.name.monospace.x-baltic Consolas
font.name.monospace.x-central-euro Consolas
font.name.sans-serif.tr Calibri
font.name.sans-serif.x-baltic Calibri
font.name.sans-serif.x-central-euro Calibri
font.name.sans-serif.x-western Arial
font.name.serif.tr Cambria
font.name.serif.x-baltic Cambria
font.name.serif.x-central-euro Cambria
font.size.fixed.el 14
font.size.fixed.tr 14
font.size.fixed.x-baltic 14
font.size.fixed.x-central-euro 14
font.size.fixed.x-cyrillic 14
font.size.fixed.x-unicode 14
font.size.fixed.x-western 14
font.size.monospace.x-unicode 18
font.size.monospace.x-western 18
font.size.variable.tr 17
font.size.variable.x-baltic 17
font.size.variable.x-central-euro 17
font.size.variable.x-unicode 20
font.size.variable.x-western 20

My concern is illustrated by the above series of comments - how many places does a user have to know about to manage fonts types and sizes? How many users know about the "Hamburger Menu" aka "Menu App Icon" vs "Settings: General" vs "Settings: Composition" not to mention the config editor?

Flags: needinfo?(dmccammishjr)

(In reply to Anje from comment #14)

(In reply to MarjaE from comment #11)

Menu app icon

What?

Menu app icon > Font Size > what is the pixel size in this location?

That means click on the 'menu app' icon - it is on the far right of the Unified Toolbar - it has 3 horizontal lines.

If you mean the corner menu, 20 px. I don't have a separate menu app.

Flags: needinfo?(erwinm)

(In reply to MarjaE from comment #16)

(In reply to Anje from comment #14)

(In reply to MarjaE from comment #11)

Menu app icon

What?

Menu app icon > Font Size > what is the pixel size in this location?

That means click on the 'menu app' icon - it is on the far right of the Unified Toolbar - it has 3 horizontal lines.

If you mean the corner menu, 20 px. I don't have a separate menu app.

The Menu app Font Size effects Menus, Tabs, Folder Pane, Message List and Headers in an opened email will use 20px.
The Message Content will use 20px as set in Settings > General > Language & Appearance.

The Config Editor 'layout.css.devPixelsPerPx' setting will display 20px as per the above IF it is using the default negative -1.0
But if you increase that setting to eg: 1.5 then it s increasing the size of a pixel, so pixel is still 20px but it acts like a zoom magnifier.

BUT there is a fault in the 'Config Editor' - the text of the preferences is not adjusting to the 'Menu app' Font size' setting.
This explains why you say the font size in the Config Editor Advanced Preferences is too small.
It also explains why if you set 'layout.css.devPixelsPerPx' as 1.5 or 2.0 just so the config editor now works ok, then you get a problem in all the other areas.
This is the bug in your particular case.
So if want all text to use 20px then leave all settings as they are, but set the 'layout.css.devPixelsPerPx' as the default a negative -1.0 because it is more important to get all other areas looking better.
This is something the developers need to look at.
I would like to thank you for assisting in identifying this particular problem.

(In reply to doug2 from comment #15)

TB 119.0b3 Win 11 64 "font" from "Important Modified Preferences"

font.internaluseonly.changed false
font.minimum-size.x-unicode 12
font.minimum-size.x-western 12
font.name.monospace.tr Consolas
font.name.monospace.x-baltic Consolas
font.name.monospace.x-central-euro Consolas
font.name.sans-serif.tr Calibri
font.name.sans-serif.x-baltic Calibri
font.name.sans-serif.x-central-euro Calibri
font.name.sans-serif.x-western Arial
font.name.serif.tr Cambria
font.name.serif.x-baltic Cambria
font.name.serif.x-central-euro Cambria
font.size.fixed.el 14
font.size.fixed.tr 14
font.size.fixed.x-baltic 14
font.size.fixed.x-central-euro 14
font.size.fixed.x-cyrillic 14
font.size.fixed.x-unicode 14
font.size.fixed.x-western 14
font.size.monospace.x-unicode 18
font.size.monospace.x-western 18
font.size.variable.tr 17
font.size.variable.x-baltic 17
font.size.variable.x-central-euro 17
font.size.variable.x-unicode 20
font.size.variable.x-western 20

My concern is illustrated by the above series of comments - how many places does a user have to know about to manage fonts types and sizes? How many users know about the "Hamburger Menu" aka "Menu App Icon" vs "Settings: General" vs "Settings: Composition" not to mention the config editor?

If you need to zoom on some occasions it could be that the sender has code which allows for the minimum size font to be used in the email content.

I would recommend that you increase your minimum font to 16 for both 'Latin' and 'Other Writing systems' as allowing 12 is likely to be too small.

I agree with doug that it would be benficial to have a Help Article about fonts.

I will create a new bug regarding the problem with the Config Editor display.
Located a bug already created see bug 1854607

See Also: → 1907209
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