From TB 115: Theme no longer integrates into the operating system theme (Linux)
Categories
(Thunderbird :: Theme, defect)
Tracking
(Not tracked)
People
(Reporter: kde-user, Unassigned)
References
Details
Attachments
(2 files)
TB-115-View-commented.png
User Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:109.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/116.0
Steps to reproduce:
- Use a Linux KDE/Plasma system (I've only tested with arch based systems like Manjaro or EndeavorOS).
- For example, use a "medium light" theme like Oxygen and adjust the colors (Appearance -> Colors -> Accent Colors) so that markings/color backgrounds are NOT blue, e.g. red, because that is clearly different from blue.
- Make sure the system theme is selected under Three Dashes -> Add-ons and Themes.
- Perform the same steps on TB 102 (so you have the comparison).
Note: It doesn't work with a dark theme because then the dark theme will probably be selected in TB as well. Likewise, it should be light. There is probably only light or dark now.
Actual results:
Now you should see in Thunderbird that the TB theme in TB 115 no longer blends into the system theme like it did in TB 102.
For example, the colored bar that marks the selected email is always blue and no longer follows the system color. Furthermore, "intermediate areas" are simply bright and no longer follow the system colors either.
You can see a direct comparison with annotations in my attached screenshots.
Expected results:
Would be great, if it worked again as before.
We have the same issue on Ubuntu, it is quite a visible user regression and I think we will consider as a blocker to update stable series from 102 to 115. I would appreciate if the priority of the issue could be slightly raised since we will need to find a way to move users away from 102 after the next release.
Searching on internet it's easy to find comments from users like https://www.reddit.com/r/Thunderbird/comments/153z4am/now_115_is_out_what_improvements_would_you_like/jslv0bn/
Comparison TB 102 - as it looked before (thought I had already uploaded it but apparently not)
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Comment 4•1 year ago
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That is a conscious decision we made to simplify our UI. Please use a theme that is designed for KDE.
The title is misleading, it's not specific to KDE and also a problem for GTK themes. It's quite an unfortunate visual regression, what are the chances to see it revisited?
(In reply to Magnus Melin [:mkmelin] from comment #4)
... Please use a theme that is designed for KDE.
This is not the solution!
Until Thunderbird 102 it worked without a special KDE theme. And before and now with TB 115 I hadn't selected a special theme, but rather "System Theme - Automatic (Follow the operating system's theme for buttons, menus and windows") and that's exactly what it's all about: Because Thunderbird doesn't do that anymore, it no longer follows the system theme or no longer integrates.
Other programs, such as Mozilla Firefox or LibreOffice, can still do this WITHOUT having to install a special theme.
BTW: I didn't find any specific KDE theme that would have improved the situation. There is no such thing.
Another impact that I only recently noticed: TB presents itself in a frameless design without exception. At the moment I'm using a system theme that has a narrow frame. TB doesn't integrate this either.
It should also be noted here: Other programs, such as Firefox or LibreOffice, do this.
For testing, you can choose for example Oxygen as a theme, which already has a framework in the basic setting.
Otherwise, for example Breeze, which is the default for most KDE based distributions. There under System Settings -> Appearance -> Window Decoration -> At the bottom of the window, "Frame width of the window", it is best to select at least "Normal" so that the frame is not too thin for test purposes and you can see it directly.
(It's translated, from german, from what I see in the system settings, the wording may be slightly different in the English language settings!)
I can no longer reconstruct whether the missing frame display (if specified by the system theme) was already a problem in TB 102.
I think the case should be reopened.
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Comment 8•11 months ago
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[I think aleca had a longer explanation somewhere about the reasoning.]
But firefox on linux is still able to reuse the GTK accent colors, is the thunderbird code that different from firefox that it can't benefit from what was done there? Also Linux users are probably a slow part of your users but such changes just send the messages that they are second class citizens and raise question of what integration or features are going to stop working next on the platform...
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Comment 12•11 months ago
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(In reply to Alessandro Castellani [:aleca] from comment #11)
@Alessandro, that FAQ reply isn't really satisfactory though
- why isn't thunderbird able to do the same as firefox is doing?
- shipping a custom theme isn't an answer, taking the flatpak or snap example they could be installed on any distribution or desktop so no fixed color would be right...
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Comment 13•11 months ago
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That article is incomplete, we're updating it.
Why doesn’t Thunderbird follow the operating system accent colors, especially on Linux?
The Thunderbird user interface (UI) is very large and complicated, with many moving pieces and elements the user can select, move, highlight, etc.
By default, we ship Thunderbird with its own brand identity in order to guarantee AAA color contrast and readability between foreground and background elements.
Areas like the message list, or the folder pane, contain many elements and icons with specific colors that need to change and adapt depending on the state of the element.
A selected element will show a different background color, if the selected element is not currently focused it’ll show another color, if the element is only focused but not selected, it’ll show another color.
All of these examples are just a fraction of all the variations we need to handle in every single UI element.
Allowing every Operating System, especially Linux Desktop Environments, to fully affect the Thunderbird colors always created constant issues and unexpected consequences.
The amount of bug reports of users unable to properly see the reply icon with their KDE Arc Theme with Dracula accent colors is something we constantly struggled with (just an example).
Even the default Ubuntu color scheme, with its orange accent color, created constant unexpected consequences.
We don’t have the resources to support each variation or edge case.
Our primary focus is to guarantee that Thunderbird is always readable and usable in every configuration, therefore enforcing our own brand identity and keeping it consistent across operating systems allowed us to remove these unexpected breakages and reduce the visibility and accessibility reports.
Why Firefox does it?
Because Firefox UI is mostly just a toolbar and a settings page with monochromatic line icons.
It’s a much simpler and self contained UI that doesn’t need to worry about color contrast and readability, and following system colors is easy to support.
Add-ons and Themes is what we recommend
We rebuilt the UI in order to rely entirely on CSS variables.
We did this so add-on developers can create their own themes and drastically change the look and feel of Thunderbird by tweaking a few CSS variables. This is still a work in progress and improving constantly, but we’re already seeing heavily customized themes to make Thunderbird look like a native GTK application, for example.
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Comment 14•11 months ago
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(In reply to Alessandro Castellani [:aleca] from comment #13)
That article is incomplete, we're updating it.
Thanks, it does give some more context, I still believe it sends the signal to linux users that they aren't important enough to make the effort to make the product look integrated on their platform though.
It's also likely that it will not resolve the problem you describe but just make it worth. Now instead of doing the integration work at the upstream level where it can be done properly and feedback addressed you just open the door to have every distributor write their own theme. The chances are that those themes will be maintained by people with less knowledge of the problem space than you, that quality will vary and that as a result your linux users experience will just degrade (which leads to more reports of things not working upstream and more difficulties for you to get the issue resolved since it will rely on third party maintainers)
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