Open Bug 1985372 Opened 4 months ago Updated 2 days ago

Duplicate Spam/Junk folder created

Categories

(Thunderbird :: Folder and Message Lists, defect)

Product:
Thunderbird
Component:
Folder and Message Lists
Version:
Thunderbird 142
Type:
defect

Tracking

(Not tracked)

People

(Reporter: web, Unassigned)

References

Details

Attachments

(3 files)

Snapshot of folders showing duplication
7.40 KB, image/png
Details
account-junk.png
29.95 KB, image/png
Details
global-junk.png
19.98 KB, image/png
Details

User Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:142.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/142.0

Steps to reproduce:

I use Thunderbird desktop to access IMAP email from my hosting provider (hosting.com). My hosting provider includes a junk email folder named "Junk" with the path "...hosting.com/INBOX/Junk. I cannot delete this folder.

Whenever I run Thunderbird, it creates a second folder named "Junk" with the path "...hosting.com/INBOX/spam. If I right-click on this folder and delete it, it is re-created the next time I start Thunderbird. I have gone into "Junk Settings" unchecked the "Move new junk message to..." checkbox thinking that this is causing Thunderbird to mistakenly create an extra junk/spam folder but it continues to create that extra junk folder.

Actual results:

A duplicate junk/spam folder is created.

Expected results:

An additional junk/spam folder should not be created. The existing one should be used.

Thanks for filing the bug report. I want to make sure we have it covered but it might be a duplicate

See Also: → https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1531756#

Bug 1979511 should at least clear up the UI side so you know which of the Junk folders are what.
I'm not sure about the duplicate creation.

See Also: → 1979511

If you delete the "extra" junk folder and restart TB while recording an IMAP:4 log, the log might show something. You can find details about recording the log here: https://wiki.mozilla.org/MailNews:Logging
Then, when you see the extra "junk", shutdown TB and attach the log using the "Attach New File" button above or post a link or email me the link via my bugzilla profile email address.

Another, probably better way, would be if you could provide me credentials to a temporary imap mail account on hosting.com. If I can duplicate the issue, you wouldn't need to record a log and I could just troubleshoot the issue from here. If that's possible, you can send the needed info to me via my bugzilla profile email address.

I have created a bat file to generate the log:

set MOZ_LOG="IMAP:4"
set MOZ_LOG_FILE=C:\Users\xxx\Documents\thunderbird-log-file
"%ProgramFiles%\Mozilla Thunderbird\thunderbird.exe"

I run it as administrator. Thunderbird starts, four log files appear, and an extra "Junk" folder is created in Thunderbird. However, the log files are all empty:
08/28/2025 09:05 AM 136 tbird.bat
08/28/2025 09:02 AM 0 thunderbird-log-file.child-1.moz_log
08/28/2025 09:02 AM 0 thunderbird-log-file.child-2.moz_log
08/28/2025 09:02 AM 0 thunderbird-log-file.child-3.moz_log
08/28/2025 09:02 AM 0 thunderbird-log-file.moz_log

Have I missed a step?

Running your tbird.bat as admin should work and it's creating the files apparently.
Tb coming up ok when run by the batch and you see the duplicate junks, which is good.
Then did you shutdown tb and look at the thunderbid-log-file.moz_log and is it still empty?
You may not see anything in the log file until you shutdown tb unless you add "sync".
You might be able to see something in the .moz_log file with tb running if you add "sync' to the MOZ_LOG env. var:
set MOZ_LOG="IMAP:4,sync,timestamp
(timestamps are good to have too.)
Also, you can ignore the files with "child" in their name. I'm not really sure what they are for.
P/S: Tkanks. Rcvd your email. Will do a test later this evening.

Reporter Wes,
I tried the test account on your server and so far don't see a problem. I'm only getting one "Junk" folder. But the server is actually reporting the folder name as "spam" so I guess the bug that Magnus points to above, Bug 1979511, is causing that.
Your server is actually just Dovecot, so it probably not causing what you see since it is a very standards compliant imap server. I have a few other test accounts on dovecot and don't see any extra "Junk" folders showing up.

One thing I don't understand is you say you can delete one of the "Junk" folders. I'm a bit surprised about that since when you see a "special" icon on a folder (e.g., junk's flame) it can't be deleted in TB. In your attachment above, only the user created folder "Drone" should be deletable.

I've tested this with a self-built daily (143) and release 142esr and don't see duplicate Junk folder with your test account.
But I do see duplicate Junks on a gmail account I have alongside yours. I wasn't looking closely at that account so not sure when the dupe junk showed up on gmail. The created date on the Junk.msf file is 4-29 which I think is before I set up the account. Also, I can delete it like yours. Restarting now to see if the gmail Junk comes back ...
... It didn't come back for gmail. Of course, gmail is a bit different than standard imap (like dovecot) in that TB tries to "flatten out" the content under [Gmail] folder which is where gmails spam/junk folder is so you can actually have two folders with the same name.

Anyhow, if you can record and attach the IMAP:4 log, maybe I'll see something helpful in it.

Ok, I think I am seeing the problem using your account, so probably don't need the IMAP:4 log.
If I go to Junk settings, when I created your account it was initially set to

X Move new junk messages to:

O  Junk folder on: <grayed out>
X  Other:  Junk on testing@<your account server>

When I change it to:

X Move new junk messages to:

X "Junk" folder on:  testing@<your account server>
O  Other:  <grayed out>

I saw a Junk and spam folder after restart. After deleting one, on next restart I saw two Junk folder, which after delete, come back on next restart.
So it appears that a workaround is to use the 2nd setting above, e.g., : "Junk" folder on: testing@<your account server>
1st setting above, e.g.,: Other: Junk on testing@<your account server>

Note: don't have to completely restart to see dupe Junks. Just have to force a folder discovery by doing a folder collapse/expand at the top level account name.

Sorry, I pointed to the wrong workaround above. But not 100% sure it will work for you.
Looking closer at what is going on here, with and without Magnus' patch from bug 1979511.

Yes, TB came up when running the bat file as administrator. A duplicate junk/spam folder is created. I also modified the bat script to be:

set MOZ_LOG="IMAP:4,sync,timestamp"
set MOZ_LOG_FILE=C:\Users\wes\Documents\thunderbird-log-file
"%ProgramFiles%\Mozilla Thunderbird\thunderbird.exe"

The resulting log files are created but always empty. Is there any other setting that needs to be changed in order for something to appear in the log file?(In reply to gene smith from comment #6)

Reporter Wes,
I tried the test account on your server and so far don't see a problem. I'm only getting one "Junk" folder. But the server is actually reporting the folder name as "spam" so I guess the bug that Magnus points to above, Bug 1979511, is causing that.

One thing I don't understand is you say you can delete one of the "Junk" folders. I'm a bit surprised about that since when you see a "special" icon on a folder (e.g., junk's flame) it can't be deleted in TB. In your attachment above, only the user created folder "Drone" should be deletable.

Of the two "Junk" folders, one can be deleted (spam/Junk), and one cannot be deleted (junk/Junk). However, as shown in my screenshot, both are displayed with the junk icon.

Anyhow, if you can record and attach the IMAP:4 log, maybe I'll see something helpful in it.

All of my attempts to create a log file result in an empty (zero size) log file.

(In reply to gene smith from comment #7)

Ok, I think I am seeing the problem using your account, so probably don't need the IMAP:4 log.
If I go to Junk settings, when I created your account it was initially set to

X Move new junk messages to:

O  Junk folder on: <grayed out>
X  Other:  Junk on testing@<your account server>

When I change it to:

X Move new junk messages to:

X "Junk" folder on:  testing@<your account server>
O  Other:  <grayed out>

I saw a Junk and spam folder after restart. After deleting one, on next restart I saw two Junk folder, which after delete, come back on next restart.
So it appears that a workaround is to use the 2nd setting above, e.g., : "Junk" folder on: testing@<your account server>
1st setting above, e.g.,: Other: Junk on testing@<your account server>

I have completely unchecked the "[ ] Move new junk messages to:" option. Yet, a second spam/junk folder is created upon startup.

If I limit myself to use the RoundCube email built in to cpanel, no second junk folder is created. I don't know if that means anything but I though I'd through it out there.

TB is creating the folder called Junk. It thinks it needs it since it's not respecting that the existing folder called "spam" on your server is marked as a special \Junk folder. I think the bug that Magnus above worked on causes "spam" to get shown as "Junk" on TB so you get two Junk folders.

Here's what you can do to work-around the problem while I debug the root problem:

  1. Delete the extra Junk folder (like you always have been doing). Empty it from Trash (optionally).
  2. Go into Junk Settings for your account.
  3. Enable the "Move new junk messages to" checkbox so you can adjust the setting below it, i.e., un-gray them.
  4. Choose radio button "Other:" and set it to "Junk on <your account>"
  5. NOT NEEDED: Click "Global Junk Preferences..."
  6. NOT NEEDED: Uncheck "When messages are marked as junk". I'm not 100% sure this is needed but I think it is.
  7. Restart TB and see if you only see one Junk folder.

I can't figure why your log is coming out empty. But I can duplicate the problem here so log probably not really needed, but thanks for trying.

(In reply to gene smith from comment #11)

TB is creating the folder called Junk. It thinks it needs it since it's not respecting that the existing folder called "spam" on your server is marked as a special \Junk folder. I think the bug that Magnus above worked on causes "spam" to get shown as "Junk" on TB so you get two Junk folders.

Here's what you can do to work-around the problem while I debug the root problem:

  1. Delete the extra Junk folder (like you always have been doing). Empty it from Trash (optionally).
  2. Go into Junk Settings for your account.
  3. Enable the "Move new junk messages to" checkbox so you can adjust the setting below it, i.e., un-gray them.
  4. Choose radio button "Other:" and set it to "Junk on <your account>"
  5. NOT NEEDED: Click "Global Junk Preferences..."
  6. NOT NEEDED: Uncheck "When messages are marked as junk". I'm not 100% sure this is needed but I think it is.
  7. Restart TB and see if you only see one Junk folder.

I can't figure why your log is coming out empty. But I can duplicate the problem here so log probably not really needed, but thanks for trying.

I followed these steps but unfortunately, the extra junk folder still gets created.

Looking closer, work-around steps 5 and 6 are not needed.
Magnus' patch from Bug 1979511 doesn't fix the problem (as reported here). But with the patch applied and doing the workaround above, the junk folder names display as what the server returns such as "spam" or "Spam" (for gmail) or "Bulk mail" (yahoo) and doesn't show the junk folder name as always "Junk".

So the question is really why the junk radio setting (x) "Junk" folder on <account name> doesn't just use the discovered folder with special use flag \Junk, no matter what its "server side" name, as the junk folder with the icon. Instead it just tries to use a folder named literally "Junk" and if it can't find it, it creates it. I think this is wrong. I'm seeing this with 128 to so might not be a regression.

I followed these steps but unfortunately, the extra junk folder still gets created.

I probably left out something in the work-around. Maybe try this:

  1. In TB, you now have 2 Junk folders visible.
  2. In TB, go into Junk Settings for your account.
  3. Enable the "Move new junk messages to" checkbox so you can adjust the setting below it, i.e., un-gray them.
  4. Choose radio button "Other:" and set it to "Junk on <your account>"
  5. Now shutdown TB
  6. Use roundcube to delete folder "Junk" that TB created. Leave the folder "spam" in place.
  7. Restart TB and see if you only see one Junk folder (which should have the property name "spam").

With my original steps, I think you were actually deleting the folder "spam" on the server and not the unwanted folder "Junk". I think using your webmail/roundcube will allow you to delete "Junk" so it won't come back. (You can actually delete "Junk" folder with TB but using your webmail is probably easier.)

I followed these steps. Moments after starting TB (Step 7), the extra junk folder is still created. I want to point out that the junk/junk folder is the one that can't be deleted. The spam/junk folder is the one that keeps being created moments after starting TB and the one that I can delete.

Thanks for sticking with me on this.

Let try again with more details and w/o using roundcube. All this just in tb:

  1. Starting state: Have two folders named Junk.
  2. Go to the accounts Server Settings and set "When I delete a message" to "Just mark it as deleted"
  3. Junk 1 property is imap://<your account>/INBOX/Junk and has no "delete" option. Can't delete it now.
  4. Junk 2 property is imap://<your account>/INBOX/spam has the "delete" option. Delete it and it should go away. Mine does.
  5. Create a new folder under Inbox called "temp". This will be set as our junk folder temporarily.
  6. Now go to Junk Settings and choose "Other:" and set it to temp on <your account>
  7. Junk 1 should now have a "delete" option. Delete it. It should delete with no errors.
  8. temp folder should now be only folder showing the "junk" icon and has no "delete option"
  9. Now collapse/expand the folder tree at the top account/server level.
  10. A Junk folder will come back with a junk icon and will have the "delete" option listed on right-clicking it, but don't click it. (On server this a newly created "spam" folder.)
  11. Now go to Junk Settings for your account and choose "Other:" and set it to Junk on <your account>
  12. Now collapse/expand the folder tree at the top account/server level
  13. Junk will now NOT have a delete option. (And there shouldn't be another Junk folder.)
  14. You can now delete the temp folder (which still has the junk icon).
  15. Restart TB and verify there is only 1 Junk folder with junk icon is seen.
  16. Go to the accounts Server Settings and set "When I delete a message" to "Move it to Trash" ; may need to select the Trash folder.
  17. Now each restart or collapse/expand at top level should show just one Junk folder..

(In reply to gene smith from comment #15)

Let try again with more details and w/o using roundcube. All this just in tb:

  1. Now each restart or collapse/expand at top level should show just one Junk folder..

It was working up until this last step. I understand what you were having me do. But, after I re-enabled moving files to the trash folder and then restarting TB, a second junk folder (junk/junk) came back.

Attached image account-junk.png —

Well, I don't know what's going on. It works for me on your testing account using 142.0.
I haven't asked which tb version you are running. At the top it says 142, so I've been testing running 142.0 64-bit (per Help->About).

Also, just to make sure, here's how my account junk settings are set when I finish and it's working right. It's important that the "Other" is selected and that it points to folder "Junk" on your server/account like I show. If "Junk" folder on: is selected it will definitely try to create a new folder called Junk (which I think is a bug).

I'll also attach my "global" junk settings next. I'm not sure that it matters but,... who knows.

Attached image global-junk.png —

I'm running 142.0 (64-bit). It seems like TB wants to create a spam/junk folder and maybe my email provider also wants to create a junk/junk folder. I don't know, but they both keep being created.

Several times I have redone those last steps you provided. Sometimes, after re-assigning junk mail to the "Temp" folder, I am unable to delete the junk/junk folder. I'm always able to delete the spam/junk folder, but sometimes, like right now no amount of restarting TB or collapsing and expanding the folders view allows me to delete the junk/junk folder.

I went way back to old tb version 68.10.0 and created your account there (on an old laptop that won't run a newer TB). When I create the testing@wes account, it comes up with just "spam" as the junk folder. The account junk setting are gray but otherwise show just like my comment 17 attachment except say "spam on testing@wes" and "Move new junk messages to" is unchecked. So everything is OK and I only have one "spam" folder and no "Junk" folder. (This is also what I saw when I initially set-up your testing account in 142.0.)

If I then go and check "Move new junk messages to" and set the radio button to "Junk" folder on:, tb immediately creates a folder named "Junk" alongside the existing "spam" folder, so tb 68 sees the same issue as 142 (except 142 displays the "spam" folder as "Junk", which is a regression fixed in bug 1979511).

I have to do the same procedure on 68 to get rid of the "Junk" folder to only see in tb the "spam" folder. So apparently selecting "Junk" folder on:, which creates a folder named "Junk", is not a regression. I personally think it should create a folder named "Junk" only if there does not exist on the server already a folder marked as \Junk and since your server does have a folder marked \Junk, the "spam" folder, tb should NOT create a new "Junk" folder but should just select the existing "spam" folder as the junk destination.

Anyhow, this doesn't address why you can't get rid of the extra Junk folder, which I have no more ideas. I don't know how big your email account is but you might try starting tb with the -p command line option and create a new profile. Then create your account in the new profile. This will have to download from your server all your emails (or at least just the headers depending on how you set up synchronization). This should come up with just one "Junk" folder (which, of course, is really the "spam" folder on the server). And as long as you don't set it to use "Junk" folder on:" you should not see an extra Junk folder.

Duplicate of this bug: 1986375

Hi reporter Wes,
Any luck getting rid of the extra folder named Junk? If not, have you tried my suggestion of making a new profile described in last paragraph of comment 20? You might also want to try my simplified steps below.

Richard (trailride) from duplicate bug 1986375,

Have you tried my suggested steps from comment 15 to get rid of the extra Junk folder?

Here's maybe some simplified steps to get rid of it. This assumes you are setup with default "When I delete a message move it to Trash folder":

  1. Starting state: Have two folders named Junk (or maybe one named Junk and another named spam).
  2. Junk 1 property is imap://<your account>/INBOX/Junk and has no "delete" option. Can't delete it now.
  3. Junk 2 property is imap://<your account>/INBOX/spam has the "delete" option. (Sometimes this displays as "spam".)
  4. Create a new folder "temp" in <your account>. This will be set as our junk folder temporarily.
  5. Now go to Junk Settings for <your account> and choose "Other:" and set it to temp on <your account> (May need to tick "Move new junk message to:" to set "Other:".)
  6. Junk 2 is now displaying as "spam" (at least for me). It may still show as Junk which is OK.
  7. Junk 1 should now have the "delete" option. Delete it to Trash and (optionally) empty it from Trash.
  8. Now collapse/expand the folder tree at the top account/server level.
  9. Should now see one Junk and temp, both with the junk icon.
  10. Now go to Junk Settings for <your account> and choose "Other:" and set it to Junk on <your account>
  11. Now collapse/expand the folder tree at the top account/server level
  12. Junk will now NOT have a delete option. (And there shouldn't be another Junk folder.)
  13. You can now optionally delete the temp folder (which still has the junk icon).
  14. Restart TB and verify there is only 1 Junk folder with junk icon seen.
  15. Now each restart or collapse/expand at top level should show just one Junk folder..

(In reply to gene smith from comment #22)

Hi reporter Wes,
Any luck getting rid of the extra folder named Junk? If not, have you tried my suggestion of making a new profile described in last paragraph of comment 20? You might also want to try my simplified steps below.

No, I cannot get rid of the extra junk/junk folder. No, I have not tried making a new profile. I do not know the ramifications of making a new profile and I'm afraid of breaking something making it worse than it is right now. Does making a new profile delete what I've got right now? I want to have a way to revert the changes if I break something.

Have you tried my suggested steps from comment 15 to get rid of the extra Junk folder?

I did try those steps. The very first time it seemed to work up until the last step when the junk/junk folder was created again. On subsequent tries, I am unable to delete the junk/junk folder. Even though I configure TB to use the Temp folder, a delete option does not appear for the junk/junk folder.

Here's maybe some simplified steps to get rid of it. This assumes you are setup with default "When I delete a message move it to Trash folder":

I've tried these steps but I am no longer able to delete the junk/junk folder.

  1. Starting state: Have two folders named Junk (or maybe one named Junk and another named spam).
  2. Junk 1 property is imap://<your account>/INBOX/Junk and has no "delete" option. Can't delete it now.
  3. Junk 2 property is imap://<your account>/INBOX/spam has the "delete" option. (Sometimes this displays as "spam".)
  4. Create a new folder "temp" in <your account>. This will be set as our junk folder temporarily.
  5. Now go to Junk Settings for <your account> and choose "Other:" and set it to temp on <your account> (May need to tick "Move new junk message to:" to set "Other:".)
  6. Junk 2 is now displaying as "spam" (at least for me). It may still show as Junk which is OK.
  7. Junk 1 should now have the "delete" option. Delete it to Trash and (optionally) empty it from Trash.
  8. Now collapse/expand the folder tree at the top account/server level.
  9. Should now see one Junk and temp, both with the junk icon.
  10. Now go to Junk Settings for <your account> and choose "Other:" and set it to Junk on <your account>
  11. Now collapse/expand the folder tree at the top account/server level
  12. Junk will now NOT have a delete option. (And there shouldn't be another Junk folder.)
  13. You can now optionally delete the temp folder (which still has the junk icon).
  14. Restart TB and verify there is only 1 Junk folder with junk icon seen.
  15. Now each restart or collapse/expand at top level should show just one Junk folder..

I did try those steps. The very first time it seemed to work up until the last step when the junk/junk folder was created again. On subsequent tries, I am unable to delete the junk/junk folder. Even though I configure TB to use the Temp folder, a delete option does not appear for the junk/junk folder.

You may have to restart TB for the "delete" option to not be on the Junk folder. I haven't seen that but I only went through the steps once.

Here's an idea:
If you haven't already, in your current profile alongside your other accounts, configure the "testing@wes...." account you provided me. I've have it in "two Junk" state right now. See if the steps work for you with that account. Maybe there is something about your normal account that I'm not seeing.
Without the IMAP:4 log that you were unable to get to work, I can't tell why the Junk folder is getting created on tb restart for you with your normal account. The only time I ever see it created is when in junk setting I choose the 1st radio button option "Junk" folder on: which creates it immediately. If I leave the button on Other:, Junk is NOT created.

Regarding a new profile, it won't affect your current profile at all. If you start tb with command line option -p it asks you which profile you want to run, gives the option to create a new profile or delete a profile. (Just be careful not to delete you normal profile). With no -p option, it runs the previous profile you were running last.

You might want to run the "testing@wes...." account in a new profile and also try to again to record the IMAP:4 log. You can do this by modifying your batch file like this (I just added the -p option):

set MOZ_LOG="IMAP:4,sync,timestamp"
set MOZ_LOG_FILE=C:\Users\wes\Documents\thunderbird-log-file
"%ProgramFiles%\Mozilla Thunderbird\thunderbird.exe -p"

I don't know your tb "server settings", but if setup to not check for new mail at startup, nothing will be written to the log file until you open (click-on) a folder like Inbox or until the timer goes off to cause a new mail check.

(In reply to gene smith from comment #24)

You may have to restart TB for the "delete" option to not be on the Junk folder. I haven't seen that but I only went through the steps once.

I had restarted TB a number of times. For some odd reason, I could not get the "delete" option to reappear on the junk/junk folder.

Regarding a new profile, it won't affect your current profile at all. If you start tb with command line option -p it asks you which profile you want to run, gives the option to create a new profile or delete a profile. (Just be careful not to delete you normal profile). With no -p option, it runs the previous profile you were running last.

I went ahead and created a new profile. I made sure that the spam/junk folder was the one selected in the "Other" option.

No more junk/junk folder! Yeah! I've stopped and started TB a number of times. Now I only have the spam/junk folder.

Creating a new profile is a bit of work because everything has to be configured over again. It would be nice if there was a way to export and import message filters and identities. Anyway, it is done now and I only have one junk folder.

I did a quick comparison of the pref.json from the old profile and the prefs.json from the new profile. There are a lot of differences. Would the cause for the junk/junk folder creation be somewhere in that file?

I really appreciate the help you have provided with this. It would have been nice to find the actual reason behind the two junk folders but I'm back up and running again with only one.

When I created your testing account here, it came up ok with just one Junk folder. I only see the double junks when I tell junk setting to use the "Junk" folder. So I might ask you to "break" your new profile by selecting the "Junk" setting and see if it makes another Junk folder. Then go through the step in comment 22 and see if it cleans up the extra Junk folder permanently.

Or you might just try this using the "testing" account instead if you don't want to risk messing up your new profile.

Anyhow, I don't know of any prefs that would force the creation of a Junk folder on every startup.

Any chance you might be using an addon that might have an effect? If so you might try disabling the addon/extensions and try again the comment 22 steps while running your original profile.

Here is what I have found just playing with the behavior of TB and the mail server...

  1. Starting with only one Junk folder in my folder list, I checked that its Properties show it as using /INBOX/spam. Under Junk Settings/Destination & Retention, the Other option is set to "Junk on <email acct>".
  2. I switched the Settings choice to "Junk folder on <email acct>". Instantly, a new Junk folder pops up in the folder list. This new Junk folder's properties show /INBOX/Junk. But wait! The original one is now entitled "spam". I deleted the /INBOX/Junk duplicate and it did not come back. Ran a fetch from server; no change.
  3. Restarted TB. "spam" folder is now called "Junk" again but the properties show /INBOX/spam, BUT there is now an ordinary folder called "Junk" (without the Junk icon) with properties showing /INBOX/Junk.
  4. Deleted the new folder called Junk. Fetched from server; no changes. Restarted TB; no changes.
  5. It does seem there is some arm wrestling going on between TB and my mail server. I'm guessing there is no host-server industry standard that requires the server folder be called "Junk" rather than "Spam." In any case, the options provided under the TB Junk Settings produce unexpected results, at least when dealing with a server that prefers the term "spam."

(In reply to Richard from comment #28)

Here is what I have found just playing with the behavior of TB and the mail server...

  1. Starting with only one Junk folder in my folder list, I checked that its Properties show it as using /INBOX/spam. Under Junk Settings/Destination & Retention, the Other option is set to "Junk on <email acct>".

Ok.

  1. I switched the Settings choice to "Junk folder on <email acct>". Instantly, a new Junk folder pops up in the folder list. This new Junk folder's properties show /INBOX/Junk. But wait! The original one is now entitled "spam". I deleted the /INBOX/Junk duplicate and it did not come back. Ran a fetch from server; no change.

Yes, a new folder named Junk is created as soon as you set the top radio button.
I also see the original Junk now named spam.
On wes's server I only see a "delete" option for the one now named spam. The one named Junk has no delete option since the radio button set it as the "official" junk folder.
I delete the folder named spam. It goes into Trash but now is seen as Junk in Trash folder.
By "ran a fetch" I assume you mean, do a "Get Messages" UI action on the account. Yes, that doesn't change anything.
I do a collapse/expand on the folder tree at the top level (the account name which does a complete folder re-discovery) and then I see two Junk folders. One with property INBOX/spam and the other with property INBOX/Junk.

  1. Restarted TB. "spam" folder is now called "Junk" again but the properties show /INBOX/spam, BUT there is now an ordinary folder called "Junk" (without the Junk icon) with properties showing /INBOX/Junk.

Yes, restart tb also does a folder discovery. I think the server immediately re-created the folder it calls spam when we delete it. And the folder we see as named Junk we never deleted so on restart we see both.

  1. Deleted the new folder called Junk. Fetched from server; no changes. Restarted TB; no changes.

At this point, I can only delete the Junk folder with property Inbox/spam. The other Junk folder has no "delete" option since TB has it marked as the official junk folder due to the radio button setting.
If I try to delete the Junk folder with property inbox/spam, this time wes's server reports that it doesn't exist. Not sure why I could delete it before with no error.
Not sure what you mean by "no changes". Does it mean you were able to get rid of the extra Junk folder or did it come back again on restart?

I have to set a "temp" folder as my junk folder using the "Other:" setting and then I can delete the junk folder with property "Inbox/Junk" and then set "Other:" to the Junk folder with property inbox/spam (which is still named Junk in tb).

  1. It does seem there is some arm wrestling going on between TB and my mail server. I'm guessing there is no host-server industry standard that requires the server folder be called "Junk" rather than "Spam." In any case, the options provided under the TB Junk Settings produce unexpected results, at least when dealing with a server that prefers the term "spam."

The only standard I know is the server can report which folder is uses for spam by sending back to the client in a list response the folder name with the special folder attribute \Junk. This is the only way imap standards require a specific string for a spam folder. The server can make the \Junk folder name anything it wants, e.g., junk, spam, bulk mail, skrapbox. TB is not respecting this, however, which causes the problem for users when the top junk radio button is selected and tb just creates a folder named Junk when it should just use the existing folder name the server specifies by setting the \Junk attribute in the list response, if one exists. Otherwise, if the server doesn't designate a \Junk folder in a list response, tb creating a new folder named Junk is probably OK.

Hmm. I should mention that I paid no attention in my action sequence as to whether or not the delete (trashcan) icon was active in the window header. I only made use of the delete option offered in the right-click popup menu.

(In reply to Richard from comment #30)

Hmm. I should mention that I paid no attention in my action sequence as to whether or not the delete (trashcan) icon was active in the window header. I only made use of the delete option offered in the right-click popup menu.

I think the trashcan icon is only seen when you select on a message. It doesn't show, at least for me, when I'm selected (clicked-on) just a folder. To delete a folder I just right-click and if there's a "delete" option I can delete the folder. But folders that have special icons (inbox, trash, archive, drafts, templates and junk) have no right-click "delete" option (and the File->Delete option for "special" folders is also grayed/disabled). That's why I have to set "temp" folder as my junk folder using "Other"" to actually delete the unwanted/duplicate Junk folder. This doesn't remove the "Junk" icon without a restart but it does allow the extra Junk to be deleted by setting my folder "temp" as junk.

But my main question is did the steps you described in comment 28 actually get rid of the extra Junk folders, or does it come back again after a restart?
If it got rid of it and you now just see only 1 Junk folder with property Inbox/spam, what is your final Junk setting radio button state -- the top one "Use "Junk" folder" or the bottom one "Other: <set to what?>"?
Also, what is the imap server type you are using? (FYI, Wes is using a dovecot server from his provider.)

Yes, what I did actually got rid of the unwanted Junk folders, with and without the Junk icon.
I ended with, and am presently using, the bottom one (Other: <acct@domain>). Selecting the top one causes the duplicate Junk folder.
I confess I'm not clear about all the possible delete options. I just stuck with the right-click menu's delete option in my testing.
As for the IMAP server type, I'll need some coaching on where to look. It doesn't seem to be exposed anywhere in the TB account settings.

Richard,
Ok, I see what you mean, I think.
I was able to get rid of the Inbox/Junk folder by selecting the Inbox/spam folder using the "Other:" setting. The only problem is when you do that you have to guess which "Junk" folder to select under "Other:" since they both list as "Junk" and if you select the wrong one, i.e., the one for Inbox/Junk, you can't delete the Inbox/Junk since it has no delete option. So you probably guessed right. Really confusing mainly due to bug 1979511 (displays server folder "spam" as "Junk") which is not fixed yet in 142 AFAIK.

The good thing about creating a "temp" folder and setting it as junk using "Other" is that you can then select the Inbox/Junk folder to delete with no guessing since both Inbox/spam (to keep) and Inbox/Junk will both have a delete option.

As for the IMAP server type, I'll need some coaching on where to look. It doesn't seem to be exposed anywhere in the TB account settings.

Probably don't need this info now that (I think) I know what you did to get rid of the tb created Inbox/Junk folder. FYI, you probably would need to record an IMAP:4 log and look in there to tell the server type as mention at comment 3 and others above.

See Also: → 1979105
Status: UNCONFIRMED → NEW
Ever confirmed: true

(In reply to gene smith from comment #27)

When I created your testing account here, it came up ok with just one Junk folder. I only see the double junks when I tell junk setting to use the "Junk" folder. So I might ask you to "break" your new profile by selecting the "Junk" setting and see if it makes another Junk folder. Then go through the step in comment 22 and see if it cleans up the extra Junk folder permanently.

I'm not going to break my new profile. Now that it works, I don't want to take the chance.

Or you might just try this using the "testing" account instead if you don't want to risk messing up your new profile.

I added that testing account. Yes, when I selected "Junk folder on:..." it adds a second junk folder (junk/junk). I then go through the step you listed to create a temp folder then delete the junk folders. That worked so that I am back to a spam/junk folder in the testing account.

Anyhow, I don't know of any prefs that would force the creation of a Junk folder on every startup.

There has got to be something in my original profile that is causing the second junk/junk folder to be created and not letting me delete it.

Any chance you might be using an addon that might have an effect? If so you might try disabling the addon/extensions and try again the comment 22 steps while running your original profile.

I do not have any addons installed in TB.

I wish we could get debugging working to see if that sheds any light on why these weird things are happening.

Wes,
So the "steps" work OK with the testing account but not with your normal account.

I wish we could get debugging working to see if that sheds any light on why these weird things are happening.

So the logging batch is running tb ok and it creates the log file you specify, but the log file is always empty, even after you've run tb, received/sent new message and then shutdown tb?

I remember one user I helped that had a somewhat similar problem. His imap log file was getting "emptied" because he was also running firefox and when he clicked on a link in tb to open it in ff, ff caused the MOZ_LOG_FILE to get emptied of useful data (since ff also sees the logging env vars). However the resulting MOZ_LOG_FILE was not zero length, it just got filled with invalid chars so it appeared empty in his editor. A long shot, but you might try recording the IMAP:4 log without firefox running (of course, assuming you are actually running ff).

(In reply to gene smith from comment #35)

So the logging batch is running tb ok and it creates the log file you specify, but the log file is always empty, even after you've run tb, received/sent new message and then shutdown tb?

Yes, that is correct. I tried enabling the log, sending a message, and exiting TB. Nothing is ever written to the log files.

I remember one user I helped that had a somewhat similar problem. His imap log file was getting "emptied" because he was also running firefox and when he clicked on a link in tb to open it in ff, ff caused the MOZ_LOG_FILE to get emptied of useful data (since ff also sees the logging env vars). However the resulting MOZ_LOG_FILE was not zero length, it just got filled with invalid chars so it appeared empty in his editor. A long shot, but you might try recording the IMAP:4 log without firefox running (of course, assuming you are actually running ff).

Yes, I am running Firefox. I have exited FF and tried the log creation procedure again. Still zero-length log files.

Yes, that is correct. I tried enabling the log, sending a message, and exiting TB. Nothing is ever written to the log files.

Sending a message in itself won't cause imap to do anything so nothing might be logged. But if you have your account set to get new messages at startup, there should immediately be stuff in the IMAP:4 log.
Things to do to hopefully get stuff in IMAP:4 log:

  • Make sure tb server settings have "check for new mail at startup" selected. If not, set it and restart tb.
  • Click "Get messages" button to force a new message fetch while selected on Inbox
  • Send yourself an email and read the message you sent now in your imap Inbox.
  • Open a new message in inbox that someone sent
  • Send any messages and, if configured, the sent messages will be put in the Sent folder via imap and be logged.
  • Write a messages and, if configured, you can save a draft to Drafts folder via imap and be logged.
  • If none of the above work, setting MOZ_LOG to IMAP:5 (verbose output) and run the batch again (after shutting down tb).

If nothing works, maybe you could email me the exact batch file you are running. Maybe there is something not quite right about it that I might spot.

Reporter Wes was able to get rid of the extra "Junk" imap folder and also produce an IMAP:4 log file. He informed me of these findings via email:

Re: comment 34:

There has got to be something in my original profile that is causing the second junk/junk folder to be created and not letting me delete it.

This was caused by junk setting for Local Folders pointing to "Junk" folder in imap account. So Junk folder in imap account never got the "delete" option since Local Folders was sharing it. (Not sure why Local Folders even has a Junk setting. And, FWIW, Local Folders does not have a Trash setting.)

Re: comment 9:

set MOZ_LOG="IMAP:4,sync,timestamp"

The quotes here prevent anything from appearing in the log file.

Re: comment 13:

So the question is really why the junk radio setting (x) "Junk" folder on <account name> doesn't just use the discovered folder [name] with special use flag \Junk, no matter what its "server side" name [is], as the junk folder with the icon. Instead it just tries to use a folder named literally "Junk" and if it can't find it, it creates it. I think this is wrong [unless there is no folder marked with special use flag \junk].

This (with some additions) summarizes pretty much what the bug here is. Most of discussion above is about how to work-around the bug.
This may also apply to other "special use" imap folders, e.g., Trash, but I haven't looked into that.

Now I am seeing two Spam Folders and no Junk Folder. I think this started with 147.0???

(In reply to Mark Barnes [:WoofGrrrr] from comment #39)

Now I am seeing two Spam Folders and no Junk Folder. I think this started with 147.0???

When I look at the folder properties, the IMAP location for one of them is "imap://mark%40XXX@imap.1and1.com/Junk" and for the others it's "imap://mark%40XXX@imap.1and1.com/Spam" (I redacted sensitive info with "XXX")

Duplicate of this bug: 2010446
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