281662 - lt-LT l10n Trademark policy: search plugins and bookmarks

Status: RESOLVED FIXED

(Mozilla Localizations :: lt / Lithuanian, defect)

Description

[Tatjana Jevsikova]

User-Agent:       Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; lt-LT; rv:1.7.5) Gecko/20041107 Firefox/1.0
Build Identifier: 

In Lithuanian localization this list of search plugins is used:

google
yahoo
eBay
dictionary
amazondotcom
AltaVista
NetSprint

"google" is localized to Lithuanian and widely used in Lithuania (used
nonmodified plugin),
"eBay", "dictionary.com" and "amazondotcom" original (nonmodified) plugins are
used as there are no Lithuanian alternatives,
"yahoo" and "AltaVista" are popular in Lithuania, these plugins are changed a
little:
in SEARCH section a line "queryCharset="utf-8"" is added (before this change
users could not perform search in Lithuanian from Firefox search bar: they got
UTF-8 string interpreted as ASCII).
"NetSprint" is the biggest and popular Lithuanian Internet search engine.

Could we keep this list?

Firefox bookmarks:

The first three folders has an original structure. Changes made:
in "Quick Searches" Lithuanian search engine NetSprint was added. In "Firefox
and Mozilla links" Firefox and Mozilla Lithuanian pages were added.
The last folder consists of useful sites for Lithuanian users: universities,
libraries, e-magazines, e-newspapers, museums, theatres, information portals and
so on. Our team thinks that this folder would be useful for every Lithuanian
user. Similar sites are added in Mozilla suite bookmarks list.

Could we keep these bookmarks?

Reproducible: Always

Steps to Reproduce:

Comment 1

[Zibi Braniecki [:zbraniecki][:gandalf]]

CC'ing Rebron and Pike

Comment 2

[Zibi Braniecki [:zbraniecki][:gandalf]]

Attachment: boomarks.html

attaching lt-LT bookmarks.html

Comment 3

[Tatjana Jevsikova]

Attachment: Updated lt-LT bookmarks file

Attaching an updated Lithuanian bookmarks file

Comment 4

[Zibi Braniecki [:zbraniecki][:gandalf]]

please, make obsolate older attachment

Comment 5

[Axel Hecht]

Comment on attachment 173870 [details]
Updated lt-LT bookmarks file

The crewpicks died. Please, provide only the personal toolbar stuff, the
searches and the mozilla/firefox links.
The central page (both occurences) should link to your translated pages on
mozilla-europe.org
Look at http://www.mozilla-europe.org/en/products/firefox/start/central.html
for where the page will end up.

Comment 6

[Axel Hecht]

Comment on attachment 173870 [details]
Updated lt-LT bookmarks file

I'm a little bit puzzled about the loads of „Firefox“ in there, too. Esp if
there is nothing but  the quoted word as name. Do product names have to quoted
in lt? And is it really "Mozilla" Store instead of "Mozilla Store"? And if it
stands alone, shouldn't a plain
Mozilla Store
do?

Comment 7

[Zibi Braniecki [:zbraniecki][:gandalf]]

Same convention is used in l10n files. Most (or all?) of uses of Firefox entity
is is in quotas.

Comment 8

[Gintautas Grigas]

(In reply to comment #5)
> (From update of attachment 173870 [details] [edit])
> The crewpicks died. Please, provide only the personal toolbar stuff, the
> searches and the mozilla/firefox links.
> The central page (both occurences) should link to your translated pages on
> mozilla-europe.org
> Look at http://www.mozilla-europe.org/en/products/firefox/start/central.html
> for where the page will end up.
> 
The personal toolbar stuff, the searches and the mozilla/firefox links are
included. Please say what you mean under: "The crewpicks died"?

Comment 9

[Axel Hecht]

http://www.mozilla.org/foundation/trademarks/l10n-policy.html, section
"Official Releases", item 3, says that your localized bookmarks have to match the 
structure of the en-US one, 
http://lxr.mozilla.org/aviarybranch/source/browser/locales/en-US/profile/bookmarks.html.

There is supposed to be no other content in your bookmarks than the localized
getting started link and one feed in the personal toolbar, a set of localized
quick searches of about the same size as the en-US one and a folder with 
mozilla-related links.

Then central pages should link to the localized version on mozilla-europe.org,
which is item 2 in the section mentioned above.

Comment 10

[Gintautas Grigas]

(In reply to comment #6)
> (From update of attachment 173870 [details] [edit])
> I'm a little bit puzzled about the loads of „Firefox“ in there, too. Esp if
> there is nothing but  the quoted word as name. Do product names have to quoted
> in lt? And is it really "Mozilla" Store instead of "Mozilla Store"? And if it
> stands alone, shouldn't a plain
> Mozilla Store
> do?
According to Lithuanian grammar symbolic (those are not adapted foreign product
names) must be quoted or written in another font. If Mozilla Store is considered
as one entity then is quoted as „Mozilla Store“. Names standing alone (without
surrounding text) may be written without quotes.  

Comment 11

[Zibi Braniecki [:zbraniecki][:gandalf]]

(In reply to comment #10)
> According to Lithuanian grammar symbolic (those are not adapted foreign product
> names) must be quoted or written in another font. If Mozilla Store is considered
> as one entity then is quoted as �Mozilla Store�. Names standing alone (without
> surrounding text) may be written without quotes.  

Strange. I asked my Lithuanian friend, and she said there's no specific rules
different in Lithuania about names.
I also took a look at Lithuanian Wikipedia:
http://lt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux
http://lt.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenOffice.org
http://lt.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRC
http://lt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subversion

and could not find such rule there.

Comment 12

[Gintautas Grigas]

(In reply to comment #11)
> (In reply to comment #10)
> > According to Lithuanian grammar symbolic (those are not adapted foreign product
> > names) must be quoted or written in another font. If Mozilla Store is considered
> > as one entity then is quoted as �Mozilla Store�. Names
standing alone (without
> > surrounding text) may be written without quotes.  
> 
> Strange. I asked my Lithuanian friend, and she said there's no specific rules
> different in Lithuania about names.
> I also took a look at Lithuanian Wikipedia:
> http://lt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux
> http://lt.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenOffice.org
> http://lt.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRC
> http://lt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subversion
> 
> and could not find such rule there.

Rules of using quotes for symbolic names are presented in the book „Lietuviø
kalbos raðyba ir skyryba“ (§167) which is officialy approved as normative
document (VLKK decision No 58, 1996-12-19). Some information may be found in
Language consultation bank at
http://www.lki.lt/lki/kkb/bd.php?selectbd=kabu%E8i%F8%20ra%F0ymas&kuris=2
It is also true that in the Internet may be found many writings with more
seriuos inaccuracies than quotes.

Comment 13

[Tatjana Jevsikova]

We have translated to Lithuanian three Mozilla Europe pages:

  http://www.mozilla-europe.org/en/products/firefox/start/central.txt
  http://www.mozilla-europe.org/en/products/firefox/start/get-involved.txt
  http://www.mozilla-europe.org/en/products/firefox/start/about.txt

(see the attachment, I also sent it to [e-mail]).

There are two folders in the attached pack: TXT and HTML.
As TXT files (central.txt, get-involved.txt, about.txt) have no top and 
bottom sections of the pages, we translated entire HTML files also (we would 
like navigation bar, search bar and so on to be translated in Lithuanian too).

We would like to add these links to lt-LT bookmarks.
The new bookmarks file will be attached a little later, as we need to think 
its structure over.

Comment 14

[Tatjana Jevsikova]

Attachment: lt-LT translations of Mozilla Europe pages

Comment 15

[Tatjana Jevsikova]

Attachment: lt-LT bookmarks

Here is our new Lithuanian bookmarks file. It was changed as recommended on
http://wiki.mozilla.org/wiki/L10n:Firefox_Extras

Changes comparing with en-US:
Lithuanian sport news RSS feed added;
English dictionary searches are replaced with Lithuanian ones;
In "Firefox and Mozilla Links" links to translated Mozilla-Europe pages and
several Lithuanian Mozilla related pages are added.

We hope now the bookmarks are OK :)

Comment 16

[Axel Hecht]

Comment on attachment 174380 [details]
lt-LT bookmarks

The link to the old bookmarks file should die. IMHO. If you want to link to
sites, do this from your project page, with the respective disclaimers. But
just sneaking the old bookmarks by putting them on the web somewhere is not the
way to go.

Comment 17

[Tatjana Jevsikova]

Attachment: lt-LT bookmarks

Attaching bookmarks once more. The link you wrote about in the previous comment
deleted.

Comment 18

[Gintautas Grigas]

(In reply to comment #16)
> (From update of attachment 174380 [details] [edit])
> The link to the old bookmarks file should die. IMHO. If you want to link to
> sites, do this from your project page, with the respective disclaimers. But
> just sneaking the old bookmarks by putting them on the web somewhere is not the
> way to go.
> 

Bookmarks were changed according to this comment (see comment 17). So far any
reaction. ???

Comment 19

[Axel Hecht]

Gintautas, what tells you that this bug is fixed? It is not.

The change is not checked in yet, so this bug is not fixed.

Comment 20

[Rimas Kudelis [use needinfo to ping]]

(In reply to comment #19)
> Gintautas, what tells you that this bug is fixed? It is not.
> 
> The change is not checked in yet, so this bug is not fixed.

May I ask what stops this bug from being fixed finally?

As a Lithuanian user who knows that the translation for FF exists for a few
months already, I'm actually quite angry that not only are there no lt_LT builds
available from mozilla.org (hence, i cannot get lt_LT localization for FF in my
debian), but that there are even no links pointing Lithuanian users to where
they could download a Lithuanian version of Firefox from. Are you waiting for
the translation to get outdated just because of damn bookmarks, or what?

regards,
Rimas Kudelis

Comment 21

[Rimas Kudelis [use needinfo to ping]]

PING: is anyone listening?

Comment 22

[Axel Hecht]

this needs a check-in buddy, sskroeder?

Comment 23

[Martin Creutziger [:MMx]]

As I did not hear from sskroeder for a long time, I will take a look at this.

Comment 24

[Martin Creutziger [:MMx]]

new bookmarks.html checked in.

Comment 25

[Axel Hecht]

tentatively reopening, rebron needs to look at the search engines, still.

The order is ok, we may want to look at the update part, so that we don't end
up with overwrites. Yahoo doesn't have a local site for lithuania, according
to http://world.yahoo.com/.

Comment 26

[Axel Hecht]

reassigning to rebron for trademarks approval.

Comment 27

[Axel Hecht]

I chatted with rebron, and we'd like to see the following changes to the 
search engines, 
http://lxr.mozilla.org/l10n-aviarybranch/source/browser/locales/lt-LT/searchplugins/:

localize google, remove altavista (that's yahoo now, anyway) and netsprint.
replace dictionary.com with lt.wikipedia.org.

That should get us in a good shape. Sorry for taking so long.

Comment 28

[Tatjana Jevsikova]

(In reply to comment #27)
> I chatted with rebron, and we'd like to see the following changes to the 
> search engines, 
>
http://lxr.mozilla.org/l10n-aviarybranch/source/browser/locales/lt-LT/searchplugins/:
> 
> localize google, remove altavista (that's yahoo now, anyway) and netsprint.
> replace dictionary.com with lt.wikipedia.org.
> 
> That should get us in a good shape. Sorry for taking so long.


I've checked in these corrections to lt-LT searchplugins to
http://lxr.mozilla.org/l10n-aviarybranch/source/browser/locales/lt-LT/searchplugins/

Comment 29

[Tatjana Jevsikova]

Firefox 1.5 l10n Lithuanian (lt) files are checked in (http://lxr.mozilla.org/l10n-mozilla1.8/source/lt/) and lt locale is added to Wiki page http://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n:Firefox_1.5_Status.
The reguirements from http://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n:Firefox_Extras are met for bookmarks and search engines.
What should we do next to get Lithuanian Firefox released as soon as possible?

Comment 30

[Mantas Kriaučiūnas]

I know, that this isn't correct place to ask, but Lithuanian Mozilla community really need to know, what is Mozilla Thunderbird 1.5 translation to Lithuanian language status ? At http://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n:Thunderbird_1.5_Status  I don't see any info about Lithuanian translations :(

Btw, should Lithuanian language be listed at
http://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n:Firefox_Trunk_Status
?

Comment 31

[Rimas Kudelis [use needinfo to ping]]

(In reply to comment #30)
> I know, that this isn't correct place to ask, but Lithuanian Mozilla community
> really need to know, what is Mozilla Thunderbird 1.5 translation to Lithuanian
> language status ? At http://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n:Thunderbird_1.5_Status  I
> don't see any info about Lithuanian translations :(

Having at least firefox is much more important for now, IMHO.

> Btw, should Lithuanian language be listed at
> http://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n:Firefox_Trunk_Status ?

If I remember correctly, our translators don't work with development versions. ;)

Comment 32

[Gintautas Grigas]

(In reply to comment #30)
> I know, that this isn't correct place to ask, but Lithuanian Mozilla community
> really need to know, what is Mozilla Thunderbird 1.5 translation to Lithuanian
> language status ? At http://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n:Thunderbird_1.5_Status  I
> don't see any info about Lithuanian translations :(
> 
> Btw, should Lithuanian language be listed at
> http://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n:Firefox_Trunk_Status
> ?
> 

(In reply to comment #30)
> I know, that this isn't correct place to ask, but Lithuanian Mozilla community
> really need to know, what is Mozilla Thunderbird 1.5 translation to Lithuanian
> language status ? At http://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n:Thunderbird_1.5_Status  I
> don't see any info about Lithuanian translations :(
> 
> Btw, should Lithuanian language be listed at
> http://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n:Firefox_Trunk_Status
> ?
> 

LT TB team is registered at:
http://www.mozilla.org/projects/l10n/mlp_otherproj.html#thunderbird
Translation is in progress and info at wiki will appear after uploading files to CSV
 

Comment 33

[Rimas Kudelis [use needinfo to ping]]

When will there be an official downloadable Firefox in Lithuanian? Why isn't it available yet?

I know Windows users can download the Community edition, but what should Linux users and their neat package management systems do? Not everybody wants to install software from tar.gz files, or even sources...

Comment 34

[Axel Hecht [:Pike]]

Actually I switched on lt on the build machines without really telling anyone.
http://tinderbox.mozilla.org/showbuilds.cgi?tree=Mozilla1.8-l10n-lt
It's red due to missing reporter localization and I'm not sure how I want to fix
it. See bug 313392.

Comment 35

[Rimas Kudelis [use needinfo to ping]]

(In reply to comment #34)
> Actually I switched on lt on the build machines without really telling anyone.

I still can't see "lt" files in ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/nightly/latest-mozilla1.8-1.5-l10n/ or ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/nightly/latest-trunk-l10n/ though...

> http://tinderbox.mozilla.org/showbuilds.cgi?tree=Mozilla1.8-l10n-lt
> It's red due to missing reporter localization and I'm not sure how I want to
> fix it. See bug 313392.

I don't quite understand this part. Does red mean that it just won't build, or what?

Comment 36

[Axel Hecht [:Pike]]

(In reply to comment #35)
> 
> I don't quite understand this part. Does red mean that it just won't build, or
> what?
> 

Exactly, and that's why there are no builds.

Comment 37

[Rimas Kudelis [use needinfo to ping]]

Would you please fix it somehow so that we could have Lithuanian builds by 1.5.0.1? Or should Tatjana do this part?

Comment 38

[Zibi Braniecki [:zbraniecki][:gandalf]]

(In reply to comment #37)
> Would you please fix it somehow so that we could have Lithuanian builds by
> 1.5.0.1? Or should Tatjana do this part?
> 

Ideally, Tatjana should add missing dtd files (reporter extension) and those should be checked into main repository (reporter l10n bits are hosted in main repo)

Comment 39

[Axel Hecht [:Pike]]

Well, the files are in 
http://lxr.mozilla.org/l10n-mozilla1.8/source/lt/extensions/reporter, so it's 
either me fixing the build or cross-committing.
(same for fy-NL, for all that matters)

Comment 40

[Rimas Kudelis [use needinfo to ping]]

(In reply to comment #39)
> Well, the files are in 
> http://lxr.mozilla.org/l10n-mozilla1.8/source/lt/extensions/reporter, so it's 
> either me fixing the build or cross-committing.
> (same for fy-NL, for all that matters)
> 

Exactly. I was just writing a comment about it.

Please fix it before next release. Lithuanians won't forget you. ;)

Comment 41

[Tatjana Jevsikova]

(In reply to comment #38)
> (In reply to comment #37)

> Ideally, Tatjana should add missing dtd files (reporter extension) and those
> should be checked into main repository (reporter l10n bits are hosted in main
> repo)
> 

It seems that I have no read/write access to cvsroot. I'll attach Reporter's Lithuanian files here. Hope, it helps.

I would be very grateful, if somebody commited them to the main repository.

Comment 42

[Tatjana Jevsikova]

Attachment: Reporter's lt files

Attaching Lithuanian Reporter's files

Comment 43

[Rimas Kudelis [use needinfo to ping]]

(In reply to comment #41)
> (In reply to comment #38)
> > (In reply to comment #37)
> 
> > Ideally, Tatjana should add missing dtd files (reporter extension) and those
> > should be checked into main repository (reporter l10n bits are hosted in main
> > repo)
> > 
> 
> It seems that I have no read/write access to cvsroot. I'll attach Reporter's
> Lithuanian files here. Hope, it helps.
> 
> I would be very grateful, if somebody commited them to the main repository.
> 

Tatjana,

According to comment #39, the files are already in the repo.

Btw, you might want to check the build log at http://tinderbox.mozilla.org/showlog.cgi?log=Mozilla1.8-l10n-lt/1137315840.29573.gz&fulltext=1. You can find missing strings and some translation errors there.

Comment 44

[Tatjana Jevsikova]

Attachment: Patch for missing and wrong lt strings [fixed 1.8]

This patch is created according to http://tinderbox.mozilla.org/showbuilds.cgi?tree=Mozilla1.8-l10n-lt error log. In addition, file help.rdf from browser/chrome/help/ should be removed.
Please approve it.

Comment 45

[Rimas Kudelis [use needinfo to ping]]

Alex, are you fixing the build?

Comment 46

[Tatjana Jevsikova]

Attachment: Patch for new strings in pageInfo.properties

Attaching the patch for new strings in pageInfo.properties, according to error log (http://tinderbox.mozilla.org/showlog.cgi?log=Mozilla1.8-l10n-lt/).
Please approve it.
The error left is due to reporter's locale files are on 1.8 branch, not on cvsroot.

Comment 47

[Rimas Kudelis [use needinfo to ping]]

(In reply to comment #39)
> Well, the files are in 
> http://lxr.mozilla.org/l10n-mozilla1.8/source/lt/extensions/reporter, so it's 
> either me fixing the build or cross-committing.
> (same for fy-NL, for all that matters)
> 

Axel, are you working on this? I can still see tinderbox builds failing. :/

Comment 48

[Axel Hecht [:Pike]]

Comment on attachment 208945 [details] [diff] [review]
Patch for new strings in pageInfo.properties

This stuff is not required for 1.5.0.x.

Please look at the recent logs on http://tinderbox.mozilla.org/showbuilds.cgi?tree=Mozilla1.8.0-l10n-lt

chrome/browser/shellservice.properties has a spurious 
safeModeLabel
entry.

Comment 49

[Axel Hecht [:Pike]]

PS: I landed reporter on the MOZILLA_1_8_0_BRANCH, and I need the patch for that
branch, too.
The MOZILLA_1_8_BRANCH is still closed until I fixed the reporter for all locales
over there.

Comment 50

[Tatjana Jevsikova]

Attachment: Patch for shellservices.properties on 1_8_0 [fixed 1.8.0]

Thank you, Axel.
Attaching a patch for shellservices.properties on MOZILLA_1_8_0_BRANCH.

Comment 51

[Rimas Kudelis [use needinfo to ping]]

Lithuanian translation of Firefox is now available from FTP, but it's not listed on the Firefox download website. Can this be fixed?

Comment 52

[Rimas Kudelis [use needinfo to ping]]

(In reply to comment #51)
> Lithuanian translation of Firefox is now available from FTP, but it's not
> listed on the Firefox download website. Can this be fixed?
> 

just to be clearer:
Lithuanian translation is already available from http://releases.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/1.5.0.1/, but
it's not listed in http://www.mozilla.com/firefox/all.html or in http://www.mozilla-europe.org/lt/.

Sorry for surplus emails.

Btw, when this last problem is solved, I think, this bug can be closed. We'll start a new one for Thunderbird and/or other problems that remain.

Comment 53

[Rimas Kudelis [use needinfo to ping]]

PING, anyone? Axel?

Are there any reasons left preventing Lithuanian Firefox from being listed in http://www.mozilla.com/firefox/all.html, and suggested for download for Lithuanian users in http://www.mozilla.com/firefox/? Is it bug 325312, which has reportedly been fixed already?

Comment 54

[Marek Stępień [:marcoos, inactive]]

(In reply to comment #53)
> Are there any reasons left preventing Lithuanian Firefox from being listed in
> http://www.mozilla.com/firefox/all.html

According to Axel, this build is borked and not ready for release. It was put on ftp due to an error. Same thing with some other l10ns.

Comment 55

[Rimas Kudelis [use needinfo to ping]]

(In reply to comment #54)
> (In reply to comment #53)
> > Are there any reasons left preventing Lithuanian Firefox from being listed in
> > http://www.mozilla.com/firefox/all.html
> 
> According to Axel, this build is borked and not ready for release. It was put
> on ftp due to an error. Same thing with some other l10ns.

Well, if I understand correctly, the borkage is reported in bug 325312, and it's already fixed. Can't there be a delayed release of Lithuanian 1.5.0.1?

Comment 56

[Tatjana Jevsikova]

(In reply to comment #54)
> According to Axel, this build is borked and not ready for release. It was put
> on ftp due to an error. Same thing with some other l10ns.
> 

The blocking bug is really fixed since February 2 (please see my two recent comments on bug 325312). The latests 1.5.0.1 nightly builds are tested, and I don't see any reason that could block their release. Could they be released?

Comment 57

[Axel Hecht [:Pike]]

I'm currently waiting for build folks to actually put the current build into
the candidates directory. I need to escalate that today.

Comment 58

[Rimas Kudelis [use needinfo to ping]]

any news regarding this topic?

Comment 59

[Rafael Ebron (:rebron)]

Can we close out this bug?  We're fixed right?

Comment 60

[Axel Hecht]

This bug should be closed by QA once we have all our build whistles in place and
are ready to pass a flock of builds over to QA.

Comment 61

[Rimas Kudelis [use needinfo to ping]]

Hi all,
is it so hard to upload a build that has been available for almost a month to the distribution server? Lithuanian teem was in such a hurry to fix and test their translation. Now it's done, and you cannot upload it. Why??

Comment 62

[Marek Stępień [:marcoos, inactive]]

Pike, I think you (or Rafael, or whoever from the MLP) should clearly explain to the Lithuanian team why this is still blocked and what they should do (if they should do anything at all). 

This is really taking just way too long. :(

Comment 63

[Rimas Kudelis [use needinfo to ping]]

(In reply to comment #62)
> Pike, I think you (or Rafael, or whoever from the MLP) should clearly explain
> to the Lithuanian team why this is still blocked and what they should do (if
> they should do anything at all). 

This would be great, indeed.

Comment 64

[Axel Hecht [:Pike]]

As the 1.5.0.3 release is out, I can say that I will not do incremental updates
on this. QA is a scarce resource, and I can't do anything in public but to 
reiterate, it's done when it's done, and there's only so much pushing and nagging
I can do a week.

Comment 65

[Rimas Kudelis [use needinfo to ping]]

Now, that Lithuanized Firefox is available for download, I believe, this bug should be closed.

Could anyone with appropriate rights do that?

Comment 66

[Axel Hecht [:Pike]]

Phuu, this took way too long, thanks for your patience. With 1.5.0.4 we 
finally got fx lt out of the queue and into the official wild.