326922 - Unchecking pop setting "Leave mail on server" shouldn't delete mail on server

Status: NEW

(Thunderbird :: Account Manager, defect)

Description

[guanxi]

Unchecking that box DELETES data, but it's not labeled as such and users aren't warned.


Proposed Account Settings | [account] | Server settings dialog:

   [ ] Leave messages on server       [Delete all messages on server]
      [ ] For at most ___ days
      [ ] Until I delete or move them from Inbox

In other words, 

1)  Change the functionality of unchecking "Leave messages on server" so
    that it does not delete the msgs from the server.
2)  Add a button, "Delete all messages on server"
3)  Display a confirmation dialog when someone clicks the new button.

----

Two reasons:

1)  Currently, unchecking "Leave mail on server" does two things:

    * It stops TB from leaving mail on the server
    * It DELETES msgs currently on the server.

Nothing indicates or warns the user that data will be deleted.

It's intuitive for the typical bugzilla member, who knows that deleting server-side messages is standard POP behavior, and knows that unchecking the box returns TB to that standard behavior.

But most end users do not have this background knowledge, and even if they do, must think through the consequences.  In general, users should not be able to delete data without being warned.

I noticed this problem when a user lost months of e-mail:  I don't know why she unchecked it -- maybe no good reason -- but she had no idea she was deleting anything and was understandably unhappy when I explained what happened (which she still didn't understand: POP mail is mysterious to most end users).

Under my proposal, those who, on unchecking the box, want to delete the msgs would still have a very simple, hard to miss option to do so.


2)  As a side benefit, users now have an easy way to clear msgs from the server.

Comment 1

[guanxi]

To clarify, unchecking "Leave mail on server" doesn't delete the msgs directly, but it causes TB to delete them at the next download.

Comment 2

[Ocie Hudson]

The complaint is reasonable but I think that the suggested design change is
not the best idea -- i.e., of course, mine is :-), to wit:  add a line above 
the line that says "[] Leave messages on server".  Each of the two lines 
would have a radio button so that selecting one disenables the other:

    o Delete each message from server as it is downloaded.  <- default
    o Leave messages on server:
      [] Allow them to accumulate indefinitely (not recommended!)
      [] For at most ___ days
      [] Until I delete or move them from Inbox

Note:  "... indefinitely" is a dummy option -- it only serves to point-out 
the consequences of not using one of the two options that follows it.

Comment 3

[guanxi]

Ocie,

In your design, when the user switches from, "Leave messages on server" to "Delete each message as it's downloaded ...", what happens?  It deletes existing messages (not just future msgs) on the server, without warning the user.

I do like the radio button idea -- it clarifies the options.

But I would add it to the original suggestion in comment #0; otherwise, the bug in the Summary isn't fixed.

Comment 4

[Ocie Hudson]

Or you could change the design that I propose to say:

   o Delete each message from server as it is downloaded, 
     and delete all messages now on the server.                  <- default
   o Leave messages on server:
     [ ] Allow them to accumulate (beware of the online inbox storage limit!).
     [ ] For at most ___ days.
     [ ] Until I delete or move them from Inbox.

Note that "allow them to accumulate" is a dummy option -- it only serves to 
point-out the consequences of not using one of the two options that follow it.

Comment 5

[Wayne Mery (:wsmwk)]

interesting issues posed here and in bug 444493.  And in bug 47297 which has tons of votes.

Comment 6

[Ibrahim]

Attachment: This patch adds the required design for the leave messages on server function. It is now clear for the user that he can either delete or leave his messages on server.

Comment 7

[Martin Schröder [:mschroeder]]

Comment on attachment 417355 [details] [diff] [review]
This patch adds the required design for the leave messages on server function. It is now clear for the user that he can either delete or leave his messages on server.

Sorry, but you didn't choose a valid reviewer. Please, have a look at https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Mailnews_and_Mail_code_review_requirements for the rules of the review process.

Comment 8

[Wayne Mery (:wsmwk)]

assuming, optimistically, that you want to drive this in

Comment 9

[Wayne Mery (:wsmwk)]

Comment on attachment 417355 [details] [diff] [review]
This patch adds the required design for the leave messages on server function. It is now clear for the user that he can either delete or leave his messages on server.

Bryan for UI review

Ibrahim, does your patch still apply successfully on trunk source?

Comment 10

[Wayne Mery (:wsmwk)]

xref Bug 47297 - More flexible ways to delete messages from POP3 mail server (I don't that 47297 blocks this or is tightly related - those decisions can be made separately)

Comment 11

[Bryan Clark (DevTools PM) [:clarkbw]]

Comment on attachment 417355 [details] [diff] [review]
This patch adds the required design for the leave messages on server function. It is now clear for the user that he can either delete or leave his messages on server.

Hey, thanks for taking the time to look into this.  I'm setting the ui-review to minus because I think the patch is not quite ready yet.  But if you'd like to push something like this through here are my suggestions.

This layout does more clearly state the opposite action of "leave messages" even though it takes up more vertical space.  We can look into some space saving options later.

I would use the following text:

 ( ) Delete messages from server as they are downloaded
 (o) Leave messages on server:
     [ ] For at most ___ days.
     [ ] Until I delete or move them from Inbox.

While the "dummy option" does give a plain explanation of what could happen I think we want to do that with a dialog instead.  I would include 2 dialogs with this design for the case of choosing 1) delete and 2) leave all messages on server radio options.

1) When the user chooses the radio option of delete messages as downloaded.  We pop up a confirmation dialog informing them.  "This will delete $NUMBER message(s) from the server the next time Thunderbird checks for mail."  ( Continue ) ( Cancel )

2) When a user chooses to uncheck both options for managing leaving messages on the server we popup a dialog asking: "New emails may not arrive, and without notice, if you exceed your accounts storage limit.  There is no warning for when your limit has been reached.  It's recommended you at least delete messages you have deleted locally."  ( Continue ) ( Cancel )

Something else that would be nice to do is to have some help options embedded in these choices so we could open up a FAQ page that explains more.

 ( ) Delete messages from server as they are downloaded  (?)
 (o) Leave messages on server:
     [ ] For at most ___ days.
     [ ] Until I delete or move them from Inbox.

Thanks again.  I'll try to watch this bug for further comments and feel free to post further patches or designs for ui-review.

Comment 12

[guanxi]

Thanks Bryan; I think that's better than my original design. A button to clear messages from the server might still be useful, but it's not necessary to this bug.

Comment 13

[switch]

I am having problems with the "leave on server for at most" feature.

On the server I had emails going back to 2014, but although I set the "leave on server for at most" to 720 days (which should be 2 years), Thunderbird was not deleting the older emails.