Closed Bug 360302 Opened 18 years ago Closed 14 years ago

Update Tech Evangelism email template letters

Categories

(www.mozilla.org :: General, defect)

Product:
www.mozilla.org
Component:
General
Platform:
x86
All
Type:
defect
Priority:
Not set
Severity:
normal

Tracking

(Not tracked)

Status:
RESOLVED WONTFIX

People

(Reporter: bugzilla, Unassigned)

References

(
URL
)

Details

(Keywords: helpwanted)

Attachments

(5 files, 5 obsolete files)

Proposed patch for email letter template (English)
7.94 KB, patch
bugzilla
: review+
nb
: review+
Details | Diff | Splinter Review
Proposed patch
944 bytes, patch
bugzilla
: review+
Details | Diff | Splinter Review
Fix mistakes in Polish tech letter
6.55 KB, patch
Details | Diff | Splinter Review
Upgraded version of Shlomi's patch (submitted)
7.53 KB, patch
Details | Diff | Splinter Review
Final letter template for he
6.89 KB, text/html
Details 
Overall, Tech Evangelism letters need to be updated so that
- they contain no broken links, no outdated resources
- they reflect the current reality

Concretely speaking, 
- DevEdge links, resources, documents should be replaced with appropriate MDC links, resources
- references to browser/browser versions like NS 4, NS 6, NS 7, Mozilla, Phoenix, AOL pour Mac OS X, CompuServe 7, IE6, etc.. should accordingly be replaced with Firefox 2, Camino 1, Seamonkey 1.1, IE7, etc.
- "Reference Sidebars for Web Developers" paragraphs should be removed since these no longer are possible, working and it's been like that for now 3 years
- ECMAScript 262 3rd Edition (JavaScript) Standard 
(ftp://ftp.ecma.ch/ecma-st/Ecma-262.pdf) 
which is broken (see bug 351962: Link to ecma-262 pdf in evangelism letters is broken) should be removed, otherwise replaced with some more useful reference
- Email template letters should have
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
<html lang="[language-code]">

<head>

<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Language" content="[language-code]">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Style-Type" content="text/css">

CC: Bob Clary, [language]@evangelism.bugs
No longer blocks: 349864
Seem like a dupe of the (semi-abandoned) Bug 274256.

Prog.
Prognathous,

I'm willing to make all the changes announced in this bug, in bug 274256, in bug 349864 and in bug 351962.
Such updating of email letters templates must be considered as a temporary/transitional upgrade until the Tech Evangelism is reorganized, restructured around some renewed strategy.
Blocks: 349864
> "Reference Sidebars for Web Developers" paragraphs should be removed

I will just <!-- comment --> them instead so that if they ever get installable and working, then a later update of the email letter template will just have to update the link and uncomment the block without the need to understand the translation.

-> me

This proposed patch covers almost every single issue brought up in bug 274256, bug   349864, bug 351962. I think the most important link/thing to do is to invite the recipient of the email to visit MDC and to read at least a few of the webpages referenced in the email.

Note that the webpage
http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Using_Web_Standards_in_your_Web_Pages
will get a major update in the next upcoming days.
Attachment #245352 - Flags: review+
Don't forget to mention http://www.geckoisgecko.org/.
Status: NEW → ASSIGNED
Thank you for your feedback, Reed.

I will mention http://www.geckoisgecko.org/
but I wish that site would mention Galeon and K-meleon browsers as well. Incidentally, I will add Epiphany 2.14 in the changes.

Note that the article 
http://www.sitepoint.com/article/dhtml-utopia-modern-web-design/4
is in my opinion inferior to
http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Using_Web_Standards_in_your_Web_Pages#Developing_cross_browser.2Fcross_platform_pages

Any other comment? review?
Comment on attachment 245352 [details] [diff] [review]
Proposed patch for email letter template (English)

r=me
Attachment #245352 - Flags: review+
English email template letter has been updated accordingly.

Checking in mozilla-org/html/projects/tech-evangelism/site/tech-letter-en.html;
/cvsroot/mozilla-org/html/projects/tech-evangelism/site/tech-letter-en.html,v  <--  tech-letter-en.html
new revision: 1.3; previous revision: 1.2
done

Next: French and German ones.
CC added: Timwi
German email letter template update:
Checking in mozilla-org/html/projects/tech-evangelism/site/tech-letter-de.html;
/cvsroot/mozilla-org/html/projects/tech-evangelism/site/tech-letter-de.html,v 
<--  tech-letter-de.html
new revision: 1.2; previous revision: 1.1
done

French email letter template update:
Checking in mozilla-org/html/projects/tech-evangelism/site/tech-letter-fr.html;
/cvsroot/mozilla-org/html/projects/tech-evangelism/site/tech-letter-fr.html,v  <--  tech-letter-fr.html
new revision: 1.2; previous revision: 1.1
done
Checking in mozilla-org/html/projects/tech-evangelism/site/tech-letter-es.txt;
/cvsroot/mozilla-org/html/projects/tech-evangelism/site/tech-letter-es.txt,v  <--  tech-letter-es.txt
new revision: 1.2; previous revision: 1.1
done

CC: Vinicius Medina (Portuguese translator in bug 232372)
Checking in mozilla-org/html/projects/tech-evangelism/site/tech-letter-pt-br.html;
/cvsroot/mozilla-org/html/projects/tech-evangelism/site/tech-letter-pt-br.html,v  <--  tech-letter-pt-br.html
new revision: 1.2; previous revision: 1.1
done


Checking in mozilla-org/html/projects/tech-evangelism/site/tech-letter-pl.html;
/cvsroot/mozilla-org/html/projects/tech-evangelism/site/tech-letter-pl.html,v  <--  tech-letter-pl.html
new revision: 1.2; previous revision: 1.1
done
Checking in mozilla-org/html/projects/tech-evangelism/site/tech-letter-no.html;
/cvsroot/mozilla-org/html/projects/tech-evangelism/site/tech-letter-no.html,v  <--  tech-letter-no.html
new revision: 1.2; previous revision: 1.1
done

The norwegian version has 2 extra paragraphs: 1 on validation and validators and 1 on Tidy. Which is great.
5 languages (Chinese, Czech, Danish, Dutch and Hebreu) remaining to do; I will do these later in the next 4 days. Promised.
Checking in mozilla-org/html/projects/tech-evangelism/site/tech-letter-cz.html;
/cvsroot/mozilla-org/html/projects/tech-evangelism/site/tech-letter-cz.html,v  <--  tech-letter-cz.html
new revision: 1.3; previous revision: 1.2
done
Checking in mozilla-org/html/projects/tech-evangelism/site/tech-letter-da.html;
/cvsroot/mozilla-org/html/projects/tech-evangelism/site/tech-letter-da.html,v  <--  tech-letter-da.html
new revision: 1.2; previous revision: 1.1
done
Checking in mozilla-org/html/projects/tech-evangelism/site/tech-letter-nl.html;
/cvsroot/mozilla-org/html/projects/tech-evangelism/site/tech-letter-nl.html,v  <--  tech-letter-nl.html
new revision: 1.4; previous revision: 1.3
done

The Dutch translation had no "Browser Detection and Cross Browser Support" paragraph and no "Javascript debugger" paragraph.

----


Checking in mozilla-org/html/projects/tech-evangelism/site/tech-letter-zh.html;
/cvsroot/mozilla-org/html/projects/tech-evangelism/site/tech-letter-zh.html,v  <--  tech-letter-zh.html
new revision: 1.2; previous revision: 1.1
done


I made several minor changes here and there in the letters. 
I still have the Hebreu email letter to do: this might be quite tough to do as the Doctor interface is using the utf-8 charset while the letter is written in rtl with windows-1255 charset.

Proposed suggestions
====================

1-
In Czech and Spanish letters, there are 3-4 extra and different sentences. One of them is saying (approx. translation from me): 
"all the users of popular application using the NGLayout (also known as 'Gecko'), like rendering engine at the basis of Mozilla, for web content rendering, such as AOL Communicator, ICQ, Spinner and WinAmp;"
I think such sentence should be removed.

2-
Several websites have actually discussion forum for web developers which, I think, should be mentioned in the letters:

Chinese: http://forums.mozine.org/ (all forums)

Czech: 
  category web development: http://forum.czilla.cz/index.php?c=3

Dutch: http://www.mozbrowser.nl/forum/ (all forums)

French: 
  For webmasters: http://www.geckozone.org/forum/index.php?c=4
  Web development: http://www.geckozone.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=8

German: http://www.firefox-browser.de/forum/ (all forums)

Norwegian: http://forum.firefox.no/ (all forums)

Polish: http://mozillapl.org/forum/  (listing all forums)

Spanish: 
  Web development category: http://www.mozillaes.org/foros/index.php?c=2
  Tech Evangelism: http://www.mozillaes.org/foros/viewforum.php?f=3
  Web development: http://www.mozillaes.org/foros/viewforum.php?f=13
Several, if not all, letters have been saying (or are saying) this:
"based on Mozilla" and "supported by Mozilla"
but this is no longer correct, precise. 

"based on Mozilla" and "supported by Mozilla" were written at a time where there was a Mozilla browser. So now, we should be saying "based on Gecko" and "supported by Firefox 2". 
Saying "based on Mozilla" will confuse readers. 
Saying "based on Mozilla" makes no more sense than saying, say, "based on Microsoft" or "based on Opera".
I'm trying to update all this...
Attached patch Proposed patch — — Splinter Review 
Proposed patch for clarifying Mozilla vendor name, browser name and rendering engine name.

The reason for this patch is that some 4-6 years ago, there was a browser with the name Mozilla. Nowadays, Firefox 2 is the flagship of the Mozilla organization. So, we should update and clarify such info in the email letter templates as well.

Requesting review
Attachment #245875 - Flags: review+
(In reply to comment #19)
> I still have the Hebrew email letter to do: this might be quite tough to do as
> the Doctor interface is using the utf-8 charset while the letter is written in
> rtl with windows-1255 charset.

If you need any help with it, let me know (I translated the original version to Hebrew).

Prog.
Checking in mozilla-org/html/projects/tech-evangelism/site/tech-letter-he.html;
/cvsroot/mozilla-org/html/projects/tech-evangelism/site/tech-letter-he.html,v  <--  tech-letter-he.html
new revision: 1.2; previous revision: 1.1
done

> If you need any help with it, let me know (I translated the original 
> version to Hebrew).

Yes, I definitely need help and would appreciate your assistance. Several words like Mozilla, Netscape, Internet Explorer, Reference, etc.. have been translated and, in a rtl writing-direction, those words are extremely difficult to spot/figure out for a non-Hebreu reader like me. So these words (layer, Netscape Navigator, NS 4) are still in the latest version and should be removed.

I've upgraded ~66% of the webpage. I have converted the webpage into utf-8 charset to make the use of the Doctor webtool easier.

Prog, 

Can you implement the rest of the changes (according to the English email template letter) and then, at the same time, correct spelling, grammar. 
If you can+want to, can you insert the following in the email letter:

Hebreu:
http://www.mozilla.org.il/board/ (all forums)
(I'm abs. sure there is a forum for web developer in that page)
This fixes some issues introduced by the checkin in comment 13 ("Firefoksa" instead of "Firefoxi"), and improves the wording of the letter in some other areas.

Could you check this in, please? :)
Attached file Site evangelism letter, Hebrew version (obsolete) — 
I'm usually not too enthusiastic about transliteration, but just like in the previous version, I chose to transliterate most English terms and names to Hebrew. This is in-line with Shoshannah Forbes' suggestion in Bug 99578, comment #7. I agree that it does make the letter a bit more accessible, so ultimately I don't have any reservations about it.

Prog.
Attachment #245964 - Flags: review?(xslf)
Attached file Site evangelism letter, Hebrew version (obsolete) — 
Updated with a global link to letter-he.css in order to correct the broken layout of the previous upload...

Prog.
Attachment #245964 - Attachment is obsolete: true
Attachment #245965 - Flags: review?(xslf)
Attachment #245964 - Flags: review?(xslf)
> Created an attachment (id=245937) [edit]
> Fix mistakes in Polish tech letter

Checking in mozilla-org/html/projects/tech-evangelism/site/tech-letter-pl.html;
/cvsroot/mozilla-org/html/projects/tech-evangelism/site/tech-letter-pl.html,v  <--  tech-letter-pl.html
new revision: 1.5; previous revision: 1.4
done

Checked in. Thank you very much for your corrections, Marek.
> Created an attachment (id=245965) [edit]
> Site evangelism letter, Hebrew version

Checking in mozilla-org/html/projects/tech-evangelism/site/tech-letter-he.html;
/cvsroot/mozilla-org/html/projects/tech-evangelism/site/tech-letter-he.html,v  <--  tech-letter-he.html
new revision: 1.3; previous revision: 1.2
done

Prognathous, changes have been checked in. Oops... I just realized you asked for a review...
Gérard, no biggie. I believe this version is good enough to be checked in. If xslf (Shoshannah Forbes) or anyone else has any reservations about it,then it's always possible to revise and improve it, then check in another version.

Prog.
+      here</span> does not support the Firefox 2.0 browser or other
+      browsers based upon the Gecko Layout engine such as Camino 1.0.3,
+      Seamonkey 1.0.6, Galeon 2.0.2 and K-meleon 1.02.</p>

The above patch adds version numbers that will be obsoleted very soon, we should either not use any version number or use major version numbers only to give some lifespan to the letter.

PS : I was the translator for the Spanish version and co-writer of the French version back in the days, if you need help with this tell me.
(In reply to comment #30)
> +      here</span> does not support the Firefox 2.0 browser or other
> +      browsers based upon the Gecko Layout engine such as Camino 1.0.3,
> +      Seamonkey 1.0.6, Galeon 2.0.2 and K-meleon 1.02.</p>
> 
> The above patch adds version numbers that will be obsoleted very soon, we
> should either not use any version number or use major version numbers only to
> give some lifespan to the letter.

Agreed.

Proposed changes:
"
does not support the Firefox 2 browser or other
browsers based upon the Gecko Layout engine such as Camino 1,
Seamonkey 1, Epiphany 2, Galeon 2 and K-meleon 1.</p>
"

I will carry those changes into all letters as soon as I get an OK to implement changes proposed in attachment 245875 [details] [diff] [review]

> PS : I was the translator for the Spanish version and co-writer of the French
> version back in the days, if you need help with this tell me.

Yes, I wish the content of the Spanish letter would correspond accordingly to the content in the English letter. It's for consistency purposes; that does not mean that the content should not be reviewed, renewed or anything in another bug.
Hello all,

I have not received any negative comment regarding my proposed changes as indicated in attachment 245875 [details] [diff] [review] so I will update all the letters accordingly. I will also only indicate browser name and only major version number.
Changes have been made in all letters except
- the Czech one: difficult to do as the letter does not follow paragraph by paragraph (and then sentence by sentence) the english letter
- the Spanish one: needs to be corrected, adjusted to follow closely the english letter
- the Hebreu one: can not precisely figure out where "Mozilla" word is 

I also realized that this sentence

"The Gecko DOM Reference http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Gecko_DOM_Reference provides a beginner web developer guide to Mozilla's implementation of the W3C DOM and includes numerous examples."

needed to be adjusted into

"The Gecko DOM Reference http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Gecko_DOM_Reference provides a beginner web developer guide to Firefox's implementation of the W3C DOM and includes numerous examples."

So I made such change in several letters.
(In reply to comment #33)
> So I made such change in several letters.

And once again, you broke it for Polish.

This line:

"siê prawidlowego stosowania Document Object Model (DOM) w Firefoxi oraz innych przegl±darkach opartych"

should be replaced with:

"siê prawid³owego stosowania Document Object Model (DOM) w Firefoksie oraz innych przegl±darkach opartych"

Can you fix this?
> should be replaced with:
> 
> "siê prawid³owego stosowania Document Object Model (DOM) w Firefoksie oraz
> innych przegl±darkach opartych"
> 
> Can you fix this?

Replacement done.

Marek, this sentence

"
Dokumentacja Gecko DOM http://developer.mozilla.org/pl/docs/Dokumentacja_Gecko_DOM dostarcza pocz&#261;tkuj&#261;cemu autorowi stron przewodnik po implementacji W3C DOM przez Mozill&#281;, przedstawiaj&#261;c wiele praktycznych przyk&#322;adów.
"

should be correctly saying

"
The Gecko DOM Reference http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Gecko_DOM_Reference provides a beginner web developer guide to Firefox's implementation of the W3C DOM and includes numerous examples.
"

Now, I need to at least change Mozill&#281; into .. "Firefox&#281;" ? Can you help me here?

I need to carry up such change in all other letters too...
(In reply to comment #35)
> "
> Dokumentacja Gecko DOM
> http://developer.mozilla.org/pl/docs/Dokumentacja_Gecko_DOM dostarcza
> pocz&#261;tkuj&#261;cemu autorowi stron przewodnik po implementacji W3C DOM
> przez Mozill&#281;, przedstawiaj&#261;c wiele praktycznych przyk&#322;adów.
> "
> 
> should be correctly saying
> 
> "
> The Gecko DOM Reference
> http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Gecko_DOM_Reference provides a beginner
> web developer guide to Firefox's implementation of the W3C DOM and includes
> numerous examples.
> "
> Now, I need to at least change Mozill&#281; into .. "Firefox&#281;" ?

You don't.:)

You need to change "Mozillê" into "Firefoksa". It's not a clitic like the English "-s", it's a really sophisticated declension. It's fairly regular, though, but you would need to memorize this: http://grzegorj.w.interia.pl/gram/deklin_stat.html to do this correctly if you're not a native speaker :-)

> Can you help me here?

With Polish - yes.
> You need to change "Mozill�" into "Firefoksa".

Correction done. Marek, thank you for your assistance! Your Polish is a lot better than mine :)

If you happen to see anything wrong in that Polish letter, just say so in this bug.

Hello all, in particular Czech, Spanish and Hebreu reading people,

I can/will close this bug as fixed as soon as someone can indicate in an attachment how to carry changes in the Czech, Spanish and Hebreu letters, changes outlined in attachment 245875 [details] [diff] [review] and in comment #33.

Changes have been made in all letters except
- the Czech one: difficult to do as the letter does not follow paragraph by
paragraph (and then sentence by sentence) the english letter
- the Spanish one: needs to be corrected, adjusted to follow closely the
english letter
- the Hebreu one: can not precisely figure out where "Mozilla" word is

Thank you

(In reply to comment #38)
> - the Hebrew one: can not precisely figure out where "Mozilla" word is

Search for "מוזילה".

Prog.
Prognathous, 

Could you create an attachment with all of the modifications (included in attachment 245875 [details] [diff] [review] and in comment #33) please (and add that attachment to this bug)? 

And if you ask me, I am against transliteration of words like Firefox, Mozilla, Internet Explorer, Seamonkey, etc... Websites like http://www.mozilla.org.il/ do no transliterate such words.

Thank you
Adding helpwanted keyword

If you speak fluently, read, understand and write in Czech, Spanish or Hebreu, then you can help me:  please read comment #38 .
Keywords: helpwanted
(In reply to comment #19)

> Chinese: http://forums.mozine.org/ (all forums)

It's
http://forums.mozine.cn/
rather.
Hello all,

I want to remind you that I am still looking for help, assistance in upgrading the content of letters in Czech, Spanish and Hebrew.

What needs to be upgraded?
1-
Expressions like "based on Mozilla" and "supported by Mozilla" should be changed and replaced respectively with "based on Gecko" and "supported by Firefox 2" (or supported by Firefox 3).

2- 
In Czech and Spanish letters, there are 3-4 extra and different sentences. One
of them is saying (approx. translation from me): 
"all the users of popular application using the NGLayout (also known as
'Gecko'), like rendering engine at the basis of Mozilla, for web content
rendering, such as AOL Communicator, ICQ, Spinner and WinAmp;"
Such sentence will be removed. 
The rest of the document should more closely follow the English email template. It's a preference, not an absolute requirement.

3-
In Hebrew, the words, adjectives "Mozilla" should be replaced with "Firefox" accordingly where suitable. Example given:

"
The Gecko DOM Reference
http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Gecko_DOM_Reference provides a beginner
web developer guide to Mozilla's implementation of the W3C DOM and includes
numerous examples.
"

should be replaced with

"
The Gecko DOM Reference
http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Gecko_DOM_Reference provides a beginner
web developer guide to Firefox's implementation of the W3C DOM and includes
numerous examples.
"
Attached file An updated Hebrew Evangelism Letter (obsolete) — 
This is an up-to-date tech evangelism letter. Changes are:

1. Changed a "במידה ו" to "במידה ש". The former is an incorrect form.

2. Changed a "למרות ש" to "אף ש". The former is an incorrect form.

3. Changed a "ווב" to "וו'ב". That's a "Web" instead of "Veb".

4. Changed a "כל ש" to "כל מה ש". I'm skeptical whether this change is correct grammatically, but "כל ש" sounds strange.

5. Changed a "Debugger" (in English letters) to "מנפה-שגיאות" which is its Hebrew translation.

6. Added a paragraph about the mozilla.org.il forum.

Hope you like it.

Regards,

         Shlomi Fish
Shlomi: Thanks, but there are few more changes mentioned in comment #43. As for the word "Web", it is often translated to Hebrew as "Network", due to the fact we don't have a special word for the web in Hebrew. (It can translated to "Mirshetet" but I don't know anyone whose use that word at all).
Attached file New version of the Tech Letter (obsolete) — 
Here I changed most Mozillas in Hebrew ("מוזילה") to something more appropriate. I kept the "וו'ב" thing as it is for the while, because you can say "web" in Hebrew, and I saw people writing it in Hebrew letters.
Attachment #295990 - Attachment is obsolete: true
Hello Shlomi, 

Thank you for your assistance and work. This is greatly appreciated over here :) 

I will [try to] submit the patch attachment 296020 [details].

I will add a blank empty line between <p>...</p> blocks.

Note to self:

- I must change Camino 1 to Camino 1.5

- The link
http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Using_Web_Standards_in_your_Web_Pages#Developing_cross_browser.2Fcross_platform_pages

should now be instead/rather

http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Using_Web_Standards_in_your_Web_Pages:Developing_Cross_Browser/Cross_Platform_Pages

Note to self:

Like Pascal Chevrel rightly mentioned in comment #30, I need to remove minor version numbers. So, Camino 1.0.3 must be changed to Camino 1.5, Seamonkey 1.0.6 changed to Seamonkey 1, etc

Also, in the current patch (attachment 296020 [details]) at line 32 and also in the current version of the Hebrew email letter template at line 47, there is an empty <bdo></bdo> which I need to remove.
Okay.. <deep breath> .. I made (and really hope) I submitted a patch which meets all of the above starting from comment #38 regarding the Hebrew email letter template.

Basically, what I did is carefully edit the attachment 296020 [details] so that there would be line breaks separating and ventilating vertically the <p>...</p> like it is in all email letter templates. This is important to do since this helps a lot non-Hebrew and non-right-to-left reader like me and it helps figure out/compare various translations.

Checking in mozilla-org/html/projects/tech-evangelism/site/tech-letter-he.html;
/www/mozilla-org/html/projects/tech-evangelism/site/tech-letter-he.html,v  <--  tech-letter-he.html
new revision: 1.5; previous revision: 1.4
done

------------

Note to self:
- We definitely should drop, should stop referring to Venkman as a recommendable tool and we should replace it with Firebug for 2 reasons. Firebug is most likely what web authors, webmasters would and could benefit from the most. Venkman debugger is more of a professional tool for complex and advanced Javascript debugging.
- As I already said in an other Tech Evangelism bug (bug 274256 comment #6), we should entirely drop referring and mentioning of ECMAScript. 99% of all of the problems in webpages which do not work well or do not work as expected in Gecko-based browsers (or other acid2-compliant browsers like Opera 9, Safari 2+, Icab 3, Konqueror 3) are not related to ECMAScript but to W3C DOM coding (document.all, using id to access DOM nodes) or to markup coding/CSS coding (misnested elements, markup validation, CSS validation, invalid code, etc.)

This is attachment 296020 [details] (from Shlomi Fish: many thank you!!) with line-breaks and several minor corrections:
- removed minor browser versions
- indicated Camino 1.5 and Opera 9.5
- updated the link to Using_Web_Standards_in_your_Web_Pages:
Developing_Cross_Browser/Cross_Platform_Pages
- removed an empty <bdo></bdo> at line 32
- etc.
This attachment is the same as attachment 296727 [details] [diff] [review] but served/submitted as text/html this time, as HTML source.

Marking attachment 245965 [details] and attachment 296020 [details] as obsolete
Attachment #245965 - Attachment is obsolete: true
Attachment #296020 - Attachment is obsolete: true
Attachment #245965 - Flags: review?(xslf)
To Shlomi Fish, Tomer Cohen and Prognathous,

please visit 
http://www.mozilla.org/projects/tech-evangelism/site/tech-letter-he.html
and let me know if everything is ok, or if something needs tweaking, tuning.

I truly, really, really appreciate your help, assistance, support.

Regards, Gérard
I've taken Gérard's HTML version and applied the following changes on it:

* All <bdo/>s have been removed. I've added RLMs for the required parts.
* Product names have been translated back to English, as our policy state.
* "veb sites" have been changed to "sites", as Hebrew don't have any word for "Web". 
* minor syntax fixes. 

I hope this is final...
Attachment #296729 - Attachment is obsolete: true
Attachment #296748 - Flags: review?(tsahi_75)
> * All <bdo/>s have been removed. I've added RLMs for the required parts.

Hello Tomer,

Why remove <bdo>'s? I'm not saying that we should not remove <bdo>'s: I don't know as I do not understand why we should remove/replace or not and what are the benefits gained from replacing <bdo>'s with right-to-left markers (RLMs). 

According to Robin Lionheart, <bdo> and RLMs are roughly equally supported by browsers:
http://www.robinlionheart.com/stds/html4/results
http://www.robinlionheart.com/stds/html4/dir

When I examine your attachment 296748 [details] (source code), I can not easily spot, quickly figure out from which character to which character the right-to-left text direction chunks start and end. With <bdo>...</bdo> though, I was able to; it was making my edition, updating, text selection, etc tasks (code maintenance) easier.
When editing in Hebrew, my Unicode editor recognizes correctly the rtl chunks nested inside <bdo>...</bdo>. I will try it with your attachment later (too tired right now) based on RLMs.

> * Product names have been translated back to English, as our policy state.

I *_proposed_* in bug 274256 comment #9 to stop transliterating product names, browser names and company names (brand names) because transliterating such names is not done in languages, and not in forum support newsgroups, mozilla ones and usenet web programming ones. According to Prognathous in this bug's comment #25 (referring to Shoshannah Forbes' suggestion in bug 99578 comment #7), there is/was a reason to transliterate those names. I wish we could reach unanimity for such change, so that we would stop transliterating product names, company names, brand names from now on.

> * "veb sites" have been changed to "sites", as Hebrew don't have any word for
> "Web". 
> * minor syntax fixes. 
> 
> I hope this is final...

It's never final... there is always something (next month, next year, ...) to update, to improve, to remove, to add, etc.. things evolve continuously and one day there will be someone else to take over this bug and bug 274276...
Attachment #296748 - Flags: review?(tsahi_75)
Product: mozilla.org → Websites
If someone else wants to take this bug, now is the time.

Marking as NEW
Resetting assignee to default
Assignee: bugzilla → nobody
Status: ASSIGNED → NEW
Since these letters are referring to Firefox 2 and are very out of date, I'm archiving them.  The content will no longer be on www.mozilla.org but anyone going to these links will automatically be taken to www-archive.mozilla.org where they will find the exact same content with a big warning at the top of the page saying that this content is out of date.

If there is interest in updating these letters and making them more widely available I'd suggest using MDC for that.
Status: NEW → RESOLVED
Closed: 14 years ago
Resolution: --- → WONTFIX
Component: www.mozilla.org → General
Product: Websites → www.mozilla.org
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