Message Handling: Ability to selectively delete messages from POP server

ASSIGNED
Assigned to

Status

Penelope
Mail Window
P2
normal
ASSIGNED
11 years ago
4 years ago

People

(Reporter: Matt Dudziak, Assigned: Jeff Beckley)

Tracking

unspecified
Eudora OSE 1.0

Details

(Whiteboard: [gs], URL)

(Reporter)

Description

11 years ago
Eudora has the ability to fetch partial (or full) messages from the server, then via the UI (and Filters) mark individual messages to be fetched or deleted from the mail server. Thunderbird has the ability to download headers and will fetch the body of a message when user requests, but does not allow for individually marking messages to be deleted from the mail server.

Penelope should allow users to mark messages (partial or full messages) to be deleted from the mail server, on a message by message basis, both manually and via  Filters.

Comment 1

11 years ago
This is a very important feature for me. I use Eudora via POP from home, archiving messages as I go. For important messages that I will have to deal with while on the road, away from my computer, I leave them on the server, so that I can access them via a web-based interface. Then, I delete them from the server later, when I've finished with them.

Comment 2

11 years ago
I have a problem now where Eudora mac gets confused & leaves way-old messages on the server. You find them by bringing up a new installation and seeing what it gets....

Thus, I welcome this...& hope it has a clear display, say "show headers of all mail on the server"
(Reporter)

Comment 3

11 years ago
(In reply to comment #2)
> I have a problem now where Eudora mac gets confused & leaves way-old messages
> on the server. You find them by bringing up a new installation and seeing what
> it gets....
> 
> Thus, I welcome this...& hope it has a clear display, say "show headers of all
> mail on the server"
> 

FYI: In Mac Eudora you can 'Check Mail Specially' (Option-Check Mail) and tell Eudora to bring down the headers of all messages on the server so that you can see  what is on the server, then fetch/delete individual messages. It is my hope that the interface in Penelope will be much more obvious, and easier....

Comment 4

11 years ago
(In reply to comment #3)

> FYI: In Mac Eudora you can 'Check Mail Specially' (Option-Check Mail) and tell
> Eudora to bring down the headers of all messages on the server so that you can
> see  what is on the server, then fetch/delete individual messages. It is my
> hope that the interface in Penelope will be much more obvious, and easier....


The trouble with THAT is you end up with duplicates, lots of them. Generally the "delete all those you got once alreday" is more practical..

Of course, IMAP solves the whole issue..

See 361990 also..



Comment 5

11 years ago
This is one of Eudora's best features.  By simply limiting the size of each message, I can actually read enough to determine if the balance is acceptable.  Headers only don't always provide enough information.  

Please keep this Eudora feature. It works great in Windows.
I agree.  If Thunderbird had this ability, I would use it all the time.  I need ALL messages to be stored on ALL computers.  This feature works very well in Eudora.  Tahnks.

(In reply to comment #1)
> This is a very important feature for me. I use Eudora via POP from home,
> archiving messages as I go. For important messages that I will have to deal
> with while on the road, away from my computer, I leave them on the server, so
> that I can access them via a web-based interface. Then, I delete them from the
> server later, when I've finished with them.
> 

(Reporter)

Updated

11 years ago
Assignee: mozilla-bugs → sdorner
Target Milestone: --- → Future
(Reporter)

Updated

11 years ago
Status: NEW → ASSIGNED

Comment 7

11 years ago
I agree wholeheartedly: this is probably eudora's most distinctive feature with respect to e-mail handling, and the first I would expect to see in a thunderbird-based eudora.

Comment 8

11 years ago
This is the only reason that I don't use Thunderbird and is the most outstanding feature in Eudora.
(Reporter)

Updated

11 years ago
Duplicate of this bug: 394991
(Reporter)

Updated

11 years ago
Duplicate of this bug: 398995

Comment 11

10 years ago
The problem I have, and I think it is related to this, is that I would like to use Eudora to manage my mail LOCALLY. So rather than function as a 'mirror' of sorts to gmail (for example, where one of my email accounts is), I'd like the program to download my mail onto my hard drive, where I can sort it, delete it, whatever, and NOT have it affect the mail on the server at all. Another reason that I would like this is because I want to access my mail when I do not have internet access.

If there's a way to do this and I just haven't figured it out yet, please let me know!

Comment 12

10 years ago
i think this is more a topic for a discussion forum, but Yael what you are looking for is already in Thunderbird. In your Account Settings, Server Settings you make sure all the references to 'delete mail from server' are unticked. That way you only download new mail and no mail is ever deleted from your server. 

PS. no need to reply to this. Use one of the forums to discuss this further.

Comment 13

10 years ago
I agree the ability to leave or delete from server selectively is a very important feature.  In fact, one that I can't live without.  I have been using this feature since the early days of Eudora for all of my email accounts.  Like mentioned above, I use several computers as well as webmail for my accounts.  I often keep emails on the server so they can be accessed from the road.  I have tested the latest version of Eudora, seeing this feature is not included will prevent me from moving from Eudora 7 that I use now.

Also being able to limit the message download size is very useful, though now with high speed Internet slightly less useful than the past.  My current accounts will only download a partial email if it is over 75k in size.  From there, if I want to download the email I manually tell it to.  I work with a ton of large email attachments, this feature of Eudora makes it easier to only download items I am interested in downloading.

Hope this all makes sense. :)

Comment 14

10 years ago
I would like to ad my vote for this feature - to selectively delete from server.  As others have said, we use it frequently, when we check our mail from laptops while traveling, but want to keep the message on the mail server for retrieval at the office when we return.  We like to keep the office computer as the Home Base for e-mail archiving, but since we get so much spam (even with good spam filters), and irrelevant messages sent by good natured people with too much time on their hands, we need to keep the messages on the server pruned so it isn't overwhelming.  

Comment 15

10 years ago
This should not be an enhancement!
Several people have voted for it.
It's essential to the way that eudora works.
Just because it's not core to Thunderbird, does not mean that it's an enhancement.

Please bump the priority up.

Comment 16

10 years ago
Ditto to all the above from a user of Eudora since 1997.  i even had the remove from server button on my toolbar at the top next to the trash can icon.
(Reporter)

Updated

10 years ago
Duplicate of this bug: 423338
(Reporter)

Updated

10 years ago
Priority: -- → P5

Comment 18

10 years ago
This is also a very important feature for me.

Comment 19

10 years ago
Steve, I have not seen any comment from you regarding comment 15. You have left the bug enhancement/future. Could you, as the bug's owner, please comment on the scheduling of this bug?

I feel that for the Penelope project to be successful, this feature must be implemented.

Comment 20

10 years ago
And can you than please pass the code to the TB trunk developers so they can include it as well? I feel this is one of the best features from Eudora that I miss in TB but never received the attention it deserves. I have tried to get discussions going before but with no luck.

http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=403997&sid=4b4af6d44dd1816ee4f3cedca5f1de77

http://kb.mozillazine.org/Popstate.dat
(Reporter)

Updated

10 years ago
Assignee: sdorner → beckley
(Reporter)

Updated

10 years ago
Priority: P5 → P3

Comment 21

10 years ago
P3? You've got a few people (and 28 votes) who say they can't use Penelope until this is in place and it doesn't make it higher than P3 and the milestone stays at Future? P1. Work on it this weekend!

Seriously, when's it getting worked on?

Comment 22

10 years ago
Another vote for this feature, in my case it's really important for privacy issues. At present I'm usign eudora 8 but I'm keeping a copy of Eudora 7 running just to use this feature.
(Reporter)

Updated

9 years ago
Duplicate of this bug: 467148

Comment 24

9 years ago
This is probably the one feature that prevents me from seriously considering switching to Eudora 8.  I'm a long-time user of Eudora 7 and, as others mention on this list, check my mail both from home and at work.  I use the server to track mails that I need to respond to.  So it's vital that I have the ability to delete individual mails from the server.  Without this feature, I too can't use Penelope...

Comment 25

9 years ago
I vote for this as well -- I keep having to open Eudora 6 just to delete messages off the server.

Please implement it in Eudora 8....

Comment 26

9 years ago
It's also an absolutely necessary ability for me. I keep on using Eudora 7 only because of that feature that I haven't found in other mail software. It's incredible that nobody else have implemented such feature...

Comment 27

9 years ago
Now I use in Eudora 8 this - Account settings/Server settings/ and check a
box [Leave message on server] and box [Until I delete them]
I use this way to manage my messages on server - when I delete message on 
my PC - the message has deleted on server by next e-mail checking.
But if a "Server Status" feature is added to Eudora 8 - this will be great! I vote for this with two hands..

Comment 28

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #27)
> Now I use in Eudora 8 this - Account settings/Server settings/ and check a
> box [Leave message on server] and box [Until I delete them]

This is not the same thing.
Eudora had a column in every mailbox that allowed you to determine if the message stayed on the server or not. You did not have to delete the message to delete it from the server. Your rules could determine if the message was deleted from the server or not. That way you could set-up Eudora with a Spam filter (like Spambayes) and have it delete all mail on the pop server that was Spam on the next check. It could leave the rest for you to check via web mail. This is particularly useful when you're on vacation. Also useful for retrieving mail in multiple locations. In the first location, you set it to never delete any messages (because Outlook's policies are even worse that Thunderbird's) and Eudora controls everything.

Comment 29

9 years ago
> Eudora had a column in every mailbox that allowed you to determine if the
> message stayed on the server or not. 

But this is for "old" Eudora, not for Eudora8. 
Only one reason for me to migrate from old to new Eudora is a few 
encoding problem - Eudora 8 has no problem with Bulgarian encoding
when recieving and sending mail. And when is possible - I try to set 
settings to new program almost like old version. I hope - the Eudora8 
developers add all useful features from old versions.

Comment 30

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #29)
> > Eudora had a column in every mailbox that allowed you to determine if the
> > message stayed on the server or not. 
> 
> But this is for "old" Eudora, not for Eudora8.

That is the point. All Eudora versions had this feature. Penelope does not. Penelope is therefor useless to me and apparently others. It offers nothing useful that Thunderbird doesn't offer.

> Only one reason for me to migrate from old to new Eudora is a few 
> encoding problem - Eudora 8 has no problem with Bulgarian encoding
> when recieving and sending mail. And when is possible - I try to set 
> settings to new program almost like old version. I hope - the Eudora8 
> developers add all useful features from old versions.

The language encoding issue you had in old versions of Eudora is not the issue. It has nothing to do with this bug.

Comment 31

9 years ago
One different way to delete Eudora8 messages on server 
without delete them from local PC - just MOVE them to 
another folder. 
Before this - set the value Tools/Options/Config editor/ 
mail.pop3.deleteFromServerOnMove to "true".
I hope this help to some Eudora8 users.

Comment 32

9 years ago
Not a bad idea, but I think that strategy will be defeated if a user has any filters on the local PC that move mail out of the Inbox.  I guess it would work if a person kept all of their mail in the Inbox...

Comment 33

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #31)
> One different way to delete Eudora8 messages on server 
> without delete them from local PC - just MOVE them to 
> another folder. 
> Before this - set the value Tools/Options/Config editor/ 
> mail.pop3.deleteFromServerOnMove to "true".
> I hope this help to some Eudora8 users.

It does provide some help, but as was stated in comment #32:
> that strategy will be defeated if a user has any
> filters on the local PC that move mail out of the Inbox.

The feature should also be easy for a non-technical person to do. The fact that this bug still has a  Target Milestone of Future tells me one of two things:
1) the owner and those deciding the product roadmap don't think it's worth doing, or 
2) they think it's too hard to do.

Since they have not commented on this, and it's sat for two and a half years, it's irrelevant, or more to the point: a waste of time.

Comment 34

9 years ago
I agree : it looks definitely like a waste of time.
Nobody using seriously Eudora (7) wants to switch to Penelope for all the clear and legitimate reasons that have been listed since the beginning of the project, and dutifully ignored by the development team which seems more interested in adding useless gadgets than creating a professional tool.
PLEASE if someone reasonably competent could add the few missing features and SELL the result, I will buy it. One of the worst current issues is the lack of the lightning fast indexing that Eudora included (X1). This was announced long ago for TB, but I guess it's too complex for the development team.

Comment 35

9 years ago
I have asked the guys on the Thunderbird list and is seems there are options available to add the columns to the thread pane. (which was previously cited as the reason why it was not possible to add the pop state to the thread-pane [1])


This is what Andrew replied:

"You can add custom columns in Thunderbird 2 and 3:

https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Extensions/Thunderbird/Creating_a_Custom_Column

There may be some minor changes in Thunderbird 3 still to come that subtly change the mechanics, but the ability to provide custom columns will not go away."

So, this means that for a willing extension developer, it is now possible to create an extension that adds the pop-state [2] to the thread-pane. 

[1] http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=403997&sid=4b4af6d44dd1816ee4f3cedca5f1de77
[2] http://kb.mozillazine.org/Popstate.dat

Marcel

Comment 36

9 years ago
There is a way, albeit awkward, to do this.  Buried deep in the filter menus--under Filter Rules--is exactly the action we want--delete from POP server.  If someone figured out how to make a button to do this in one click our problem would be (almost) solved.  Since the feature's already there I don't understand why it's a problem to make it easier to use.

Comment 37

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #36)
> Buried deep in the filter menus--under Filter Rules--is exactly the action we 
> want--delete from POP server.
I think - this is not a same. By using filters we need a exact criteria /contains ot not contains or .../ And - the old Eudora have a column "Server status", in Thunderbid/Penelope - not. Is hard to determinate is mesasge on server or not.

Comment 38

8 years ago
Is there any news regarding this feature request? I gave Penelope / Eudora 8 another shot today, and it makes me crazy that there's no way to manually fetch / delete emails from the server. All the reasons mentioned above apply (different computers on which i work on my email, filters that move incoming messages to different folders based on the "Personality" they arrive to, etc.)
Any hope?

Comment 39

8 years ago
(In reply to comment #38)
> Is there any news regarding this feature request?

Let's see.
Target Milestone is still Future.
The bug's owner still hasn't commented. At all.
So no news.

> Any hope?

Never give up hope, but don't hold your breath.
With a target of "Future" that means it's not even on the radar.

I'm starting to thing that they should turn the old Eudora code over to an Open Source community and let them fix things, 'cause the Penelope thing is dead in the water.

Comment 40

8 years ago
I've voted for this enhancement, but just wanted to note that there are really TWO enhancements requested by the original poster (I think):
  1) The ability to manually indicate when a message (or partial) is to be deleted from the server; and,
  2) The ability to specify a size limit for the portion of the message to downloaded.

I just wanted to note that my vote is for BOTH of these enhancements, and to suggest that -- if the developers/assignees wish -- the "size limit" be split to a separate enhancement if it's not necessary to tie it to the "fetch/delete" status (due to the possibility of having both a partial and full message present, where selecting "delete" for one should reflect the same status in the other -- as Eudora does).

Comment 41

8 years ago
...A STRONG VOTE for this feature!  It's one of the primary reasons I use Eudora, and the ONLY real reason I can't move up to TB/Penelope.  Like most other posters here, this has made it possible for me to use email productively from several computers at home/work and on the road.

I'm not the only one I know who uses Eudora like this - how many of us must comment/vote to be taken seriously?  This isn't ACORN, so I'd feel a little guilty about ballot box stuffing...

In reply to comment #40)
> I've voted for this enhancement, but just wanted to note that there are really
> TWO enhancements requested by the original poster (I think):
>   1) The ability to manually indicate when a message (or partial) is to be
> deleted from the server; and,
>   2) The ability to specify a size limit for the portion of the message to
> downloaded.

Please add:
  3) The ability to clearly SHOW the current server status (preferably in BOTH the mailbox view and message view, as was done in Eudora 7 and earlier) as well as controlling it.
(Reporter)

Updated

8 years ago
Severity: enhancement → normal
Priority: P3 → P2
Target Milestone: Future → 1.0

Comment 42

8 years ago
I am running Eudora 7 on Windows 7 with many problems.  I use 3 different computers and like to delete messages from the server after the important ones appear on 2 of the computers.  The others I delete immediately if they are not important.  The inalbility to delete messages from the server using Eudora 8 is preventing me from switching from Eudora 7 to Eudora 8.

Comment 43

8 years ago
Another strong vote for this feature. Like many others I will not change to Eudora OSE, if this feature is not implemented. But I'm rather sceptic about, since this request started already almost 4 years ago.

Comment 44

8 years ago
There's actually a REALLY old bug asking for this capability -- Bug 47297 (5 digits!!).  I'd suggest DUPing this bug to that one, but I think the Qualcomm people are more likely to actually implement this functionality.  On the other hand, I think this would need to be implemented in Thunderbird, rather than Penelope.

Comment 45

8 years ago
At the present day I lost all my hope and faith on this issue to be implemented or at least just taken in cosideration. I also lost my hope to find another email client implementing this unique feature of classic Eudora (I've searched hardly). It's a pity but we ought to be realistic. I agree with Michael, I too think that this would need to be implemented in Thunderbird rather than in Penelope.

Updated

8 years ago
Whiteboard: [gs]

Comment 46

8 years ago
The recent url change  (in bug page header above): 
>Michael A. Pasek <mike001@necessitiessalon.com> changed:
>
>           What    |Removed                     |Added
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                URL|http://gsfn.us/t/q839       |http://gsfn.us/t/q839
>                   |                            |http://gsfn.us/t/r8li
has set a concatenated "address" in the URL HREF:
http://gsfn.us/t/q839%20http://gsfn.us/t/r8li
which resolves as
>"Oops, we couldn't find the page you requested!
>What were you looking for?
>    * If you're looking for a product or company try the search box in the >header.
>    * If you think you've found a bug, please report it in the Get >Satisfaction community.

Attention, please (whoever?)
TIA

Comment 47

8 years ago
Working on it...URLs should be "separate".

Comment 48

8 years ago
I'm only doing what's described here (in step 1.2):
https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird/Support/Workflow#GS_-.3E_Bugzilla

See Bug 570787 -- it has 4 URLs!

Contact Roland Tanglao, the author of the "Workflow" document (you can get his email from Bug 570787).  He should be able to either modify the "workflow", or get Bugzilla fixed to recognize multiple URLs.

Comment 49

8 years ago
Target Milestone for "selective server deletion" was Eudora OSE 1.0.  My heart leaped with joy when I received the "1.0 update available" message.  Filled with anticipation, I installed Eudora OSE 1.0, and behold - I STILL can't find the feature!  Did I miss something?  Or is the implementation just too complicated to get in?

Some sort of meaningful comment from Jeff on what's going on and why would be greatly appreciated - the original Qualcomm product was so forward-thinking in this regard that it's hard to imagine how suddenly nobody needs server control.  I'd like to think the 45 votes for this represent a rather large silent majority.

So I must continue to run Eudora 7 on my primary (XP) computer, and it's awful not being able to see or control server status from my alternate machine, which is Win7-64b and can't run that product.  (If anybody has been successful here, let me know!)

Comment 50

8 years ago
Query:

Is this as vital as it was? I ask because I, and everyone I know, has long since switched to IMAP; because it's easier with a crackberry et. al.

Comment 51

8 years ago
Yes it is important, but the issue isn't about IMAP it's about POP and we still want to use it.

Comment 52

7 years ago
Please, please, please, I have just created a Bugzilla account so that I'm no longer one of the "silent majority" so that I can vote and leave this comment.

I too am watching for any sign of life or recognition that this, for "old" Eudora users, is one of the KEY issues preventing their (qualified) whole-hearted migration to Eudora OSE.  And surely, that is the point, that this project is for "old" users to migrate - not to try and attract "new" users per-se, though I would hope that they will be naturally drawn to the excellent feature set of "old" Eudora implemented in a way that can run on newer systems, and (for me most importantly) able to handle complex character sets (the ONLY reason that I must look for an "old" Eudora alternative).

Please, other "silent majority" watchers, come out of the woodwork and have a say!

Comment 53

7 years ago
I too have been one of the silent majority. This feature was one of the few distinctive ways that separated Eudora from the dozens of run of the mill email clients out there. Anyone that needs to keep email synchronized on more than one computer relies on this. And no, not everyone uses a Blackberry and IMAP. So, I concur, please, please, please push this up the priority ladder. Five years is a long time to wait. Thanks.

Comment 54

7 years ago
I still use Eudora under XP (despite all the issues in displaying newly formatted messages) for the following reasons:
1. It lets me manage the server status (keep/remove) of my POP messages, as everyone has unanimously reported since many years. It is simply incredible TB is still incapable of this ! This feature seems implementable even by mediocre programmers.
2. I have a single "In" box where e-mails from my three accounts are collected. I want to read all my e-mails and I don't care which account they came through.
3. It searches among 70,000+ messages in less than 1/2 second on a slow computer. The x1 technology was hyper-efficient (and the index files small !)
4. It handles attachments perfectly : they go directly to a specific directory and my messages databases files are in megabytes, not gigabytes ! When I search my messages, I don't want to search in the attachments (if I want, I can search in their directory). I can manage the attachment directory easily and independently from Eudora, remove duplicates, archive important files etc using standard file manager tools.
5. Eudora checks spelling automatically in two languages at the same time (I use both French and English, sometimes in the same e-mail). It's so much a chore with TB that I end up not checking at all.
--------
Why the TB developers didn't simply mimic Eudora's features ? They obviously don't understand what an email program should be so the best starting point should have been the most successful email client there was (ever ?).
If a commercial product shows up with the features above, I will pay for it as I paid for Eudora.

Comment 55

7 years ago
Bert, I agree with every one of your comments (although I only use one language so #5 isn't that important to me). But the other features are what made Eudora stand out (way out) from everything else. If you want TB/Penelope to stand way out too, put these features in instead of just making it another Outlook wannabe!

Comment 56

7 years ago
I absolutely agree. These 5 features listed by Bert where the reason I choose Eudora above others and they are the reason why I am sticking with Eudora ever since. Without them I would feel like having stumbled into a time-loop. Keep the identity of Eudora and if it is then possible to take on board some additional feature - wonderful!

Comment 57

7 years ago
Yes indeed Marcel ! ...still waiting...

In the meanwhile the family share a mail feed - including busy mailing lists as well as personal mail, using Eudora with XP and OSX on desktops, laptops and netbooks; mostly on broadband, sometimes on dial-up (especially when in remote rural areas). 

The two features identified in Matt's original post (together with the support for mutiple personalities) allow this to work very successfully. 

Fetch partial messages [Eudora 7: Skip messages over .... K in size]  

Fetching partial messages (the first N Kbytes) is essential on dial-up, especially with thoughtless inclusion of megabyte images in messages; it is much more useful than fetching headers only, particularly with mailing lists where long threads can drift far from the subject line topic.

Mark messages to be deleted from the mail server
[Eudora 7: Message > Change > Server Status > Leave | Fetch | Delete | Fetch then Delete (or: right-click on message, Change server status >...)] 
[Eudora 7: Incoming Mail: delete from server when emptied from Trash ]

With multiple users, "delete from server when message deleted/message emptied from trash" are risky; users will have varying ideas about which messages are interesting, and may well forget that deleting a duplicate copy (a partial download, or a full duplicate) will also result in deletion from the server. 

Having the facility to explicitly mark individual or selections of messages for deletion from the server is much safer.
   
Finally, use of both features together allows countermeasures to spam, malware and mailbombing slipping through the server filters and cluttering up the server - both by hand and _by_filters_ .
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