Closed Bug 425131 Opened 15 years ago Closed 14 years ago

Tree view should not contain dotted lines

Categories

(Toolkit :: XUL Widgets, defect)

x86
Windows XP
defect
Not set
normal

Tracking

()

VERIFIED FIXED
mozilla1.9

People

(Reporter: faaborg, Assigned: beltzner)

References

Details

Attachments

(4 files, 1 obsolete file)

Windows XP introduced a new visual style for tree views that (unlike windows 95 through 2000) no longer contained dashed lines between elements in the tree.  For visual integration with XP (and now Vista as well), we should remove the dashed lines from our tree views.
Flags: blocking-firefox3?
Note that bug 403149 will update the expansion and collapsing images for Vista.
Vlad/Enn: how do we do this? Do we draw this using CSS or do we get it from the system?
Just change the -moz-tree-line lines in tree.css for Windows to what they are on other platforms. They aren't native themed currently.

Assignee: nobody → beltzner
Flags: blocking-firefox3? → blocking-firefox3+
(In reply to comment #0)
> ...
> 
> Windows XP introduced a new visual style for tree views that (unlike windows 95
> through 2000) no longer contained dashed lines between elements in the tree. 
> For visual integration with XP (and now Vista as well), we should remove the
> dashed lines from our tree views.

Just as a sidenote, Vista (and I think XP) does in fact still use dashed lines with tree views, in the Registry Editor. Though of course you are right that most places the user sees a tree view, it will not have dashed lines :)
Summary: Tree view should not contain dashed lines → Tree view should not contain dotted lines
Whiteboard: [needs status update]
Blocks: 405605
(In reply to comment #0)
> Windows XP introduced a new visual style for tree views that (unlike windows 95
> through 2000) no longer contained dashed lines between elements in the tree. 
> For visual integration with XP (and now Vista as well), we should remove the
> dashed lines from our tree views.
> 

Not quite.  Microsoft added a user preference ("simple view"), which, among other things, turned off the dotted lines in the Shell (i.e., Windows Explorer; this would also include file picker dialogs, etc.).  The default setting was to have this "simple view" enabled, but it could easily be turned off by the user, thus restoring the dotted lines.  Outside of the Shell, many native Microsoft apps such as the Registry Editor, Management Console, Dependency Walker, etc., etc., still sport the dotted lines, as the attachment in comment #4 attests.  This is because the Windows tree control still draw the dotted lines.  As a result, many third-party apps still have the dotted lines as well (e.g., look at Winamp's preferences dialog)

So my thoughts on this, in a nutshell,
1) The dotted lines are hardly dead.  Many native apps--including many Microsoft apps--still use them, even in Vista.
2) If they are to be turned off for consistency with Windows Explorer, then it should be done in a way that respect the user preferences set for Explorer.
3) While it may not be aesthetically pleasing, the dotted lines are practical, and they improve usability by allow the user to visually parse hierarchy with fewer mental "clock cycles"

My own personal opinion is that this should be a wontfix unless we are willing to do something about (2).
1) Is kinda irrelevant.  MS apps often are long-lived, and don't get visually refreshed.  It tends to flag those apps as being odd, really.  I think 2) is not really something I care about.  Its all well and good to follow system settings, but the default should match above all. 3) is dubious to me, I always found it noise, and on OS X I certainly don't have problems understanding the hierarchy.  That's what the indentation is for...
Also the visual design of the expansion widgets (which will be landing soon) helps a lot with seeing the hierarchy on vista.
Comment on attachment 317171 [details] [diff] [review]
removes tree lines from XP and Vista, tested with selection, hover, etc

woo, ship it.
Attachment #317171 - Flags: ui-review+
Attachment #317171 - Flags: review?(mconnor)
Attachment #317171 - Flags: review+
Attachment #317171 - Flags: approval1.9+
Keywords: checkin-needed
Whiteboard: [needs status update] → [has patch][has reviews]
oops, getting rid of redundant rules, carrying over reviews
Attachment #317171 - Attachment is obsolete: true
Attachment #317173 - Flags: ui-review+
Attachment #317173 - Flags: review+
Attachment #317173 - Flags: approval1.9+
Whiteboard: [has patch][has reviews] → [has patch][has reviews][has approval]
mozilla/toolkit/themes/winstripe/global/tree.css 	1.14 
Status: NEW → RESOLVED
Closed: 14 years ago
Component: Theme → XUL Widgets
Flags: blocking-firefox3+
Keywords: checkin-needed
Product: Firefox → Toolkit
QA Contact: theme → xul.widgets
Resolution: --- → FIXED
Whiteboard: [has patch][has reviews][has approval]
Target Milestone: --- → mozilla1.9
(In reply to comment #5)
> Not quite.  Microsoft added a user preference ("simple view"), which, among
> other things, turned off the dotted lines in the Shell (i.e., Windows Explorer;
> this would also include file picker dialogs, etc.).  The default setting was to
> have this "simple view" enabled, but it could easily be turned off by the user,
> thus restoring the dotted lines.
Perhaps we could have some way of turning off "simple view" in the XUL?
Please, add preference to turn this "feature" off!
There is "modern" and many custom themes without dotted lines for users found it as "noice".

Theming mechanism was invened to help people get new look easy, if they want it. So, why I must get new look, when I want to have old look? 

I need this dotted lines, to know hierarchy level, and to easy visually compare level of different nested subtrees.
Hehe.  Using the DOMi to look at an element deep in the tree without these guides was, um... fun.  :)

The problem with removing the lines from the toolkit (vs. removing them just from Places) is that it affects everything that uses the tree view, including things like the DOMi, which is one case where there really is an impact on usability (harder to determine depth without lines to count).

That having been said, this could be overridden with userChrome.css (which is what I ended up doing), so I suppose for those who know, there is that option...
(In reply to comment #14)
> Hehe.  Using the DOMi to look at an element deep in the tree without these
> guides was, um... fun.  :)
> 
> The problem with removing the lines from the toolkit (vs. removing them just
> from Places) is that it affects everything that uses the tree view, including
> things like the DOMi, which is one case where there really is an impact on
> usability (harder to determine depth without lines to count).
> 
> That having been said, this could be overridden with userChrome.css (which is
> what I ended up doing), so I suppose for those who know, there is that
> option...
> 

I agree with you.
Can you post the code for userChrome.css to undo those changes?
That would save me some time to try and find the correct code myself.
Without the lines it is very difficult to use the DOM Inspector.
(In reply to comment #16)
> Can you post the code for userChrome.css to undo those changes?
> That would save me some time to try and find the correct code myself.
> Without the lines it is very difficult to use the DOM Inspector.
> 

Sure.  Attaching...


I just noticed bug 430852, which lists other use cases where the tree lines are useful.  TB, having forked the widget theme, isn't affected, and maybe SM should've done that too.
Blocks: 430852
No longer blocks: 430852
Depends on: 430852
Verified with Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.0.1pre) Gecko/2008062706 GranParadiso/3.0.1pre ID:2008062706 and the appropriate build on Windows Vista.
Status: RESOLVED → VERIFIED
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