43076 - Taskbar navigator symbol should be changed to mozilla symbol.

Status: VERIFIED DUPLICATE of bug 14288

(SeaMonkey :: General, defect, P3)

Description

[Eric Hodel]

Thats just about it.  The navigator symbol in the lower left corner should
probably be changed to some form of Mozilla symbol, such as the
gecko/lizard/dinosaur.

Just being nit-picky

Comment 1

[Blake Ross]

confirming...guess this is true...

Comment 2

[Matthew T (active 1999-2002)]

From 
<http://www.mozilla.org/docs/l10n/l10nkits/client/windows/notes/trademarks.html>
:
|
| You may NOT use the following words, images or icons in your localized
| product (except to express Netscape Communications' copyright or trademarks): 
|...
| The "Lighthouse" image 
| The "Ship's Wheel" icon 
|
| You MAY use the following module names in your localized product: 
|
| Navigator 
| Communicator 
| Messenger 
| Composer 
| Conference

From <http://www.mozilla.org/docs/refList/refNSPR/copyrt.html>:
|
| ... Ship's Wheel logos are registered trademarks of Netscape Communications
| Corporation in the United States and other countries. Netscape's logos and
| Netscape product and service names are also trademarks of Netscape
| Communications Corporation, which may be registered in other countries. Other
| product and brand names are trademarks of their respective owners. 

So, assuming that the Mozilla browser is going to remain `Navigator' (and I 
don't see why not), what other logo could we going to use to represent a 
navigator? A gecko/lizard wouldn't be accurate, since Gecko is used in 
Composer/Messenger/everything, not just in Navigator.

Comment 3

[Brendan Donohoe]

Not a Netscape issue.

Comment 4

[Matthew T (active 1999-2002)]

Well of course it's not a Netscape issue, that's the whole point ...

I'll bring this up in netscape.public.mozilla.ui and see if anyone has any bright 
ideas.

Comment 5

[Ben Goodger (use ben at mozilla dot org for email)]

not to mention the fact that all these little geckos popping up all over the 
place seem like a sneaky self promotion effort on the part of layout  and/or 
marketing ("Gecko" is a Netscape term, not a Mozilla one) ;)

Linux Seamonkey uses a mozilla.org star for its icon... I still prefer the 
Netscape ship's wheel, I guess we need something similar. A compass, 
perhaps? ;) 

Comment 6

[Matthew T (active 1999-2002)]

I *knew* I'd seen this somewhere before.

This is a dup of bug 14288, which was VERIFIED INVALID by [e-mail] on 
the grounds that `All icon images that released with the code are part of the 
open source ... If you meant the "wheel" icon on the taskbar, the icon means 
"browse" which is a general term of the internet activity, not related to 
Netscape'.

However, Mitchell Baker wasn't in on that bug, and its resolution seems to be at 
odds with the trademark documents cited above. If the `wheel' icon in the taskbar 
is to be allowed to stay, then Mozilla should also be able to have more detailed 
ship's wheel icons for the Mozilla Navigator app itself, for wizards, for 
documentation, and so on -- and Netscape can pretty much give up on the idea of 
ship's wheels being a Netscape-specific trademark.

CCing Mitchell for the final word.

Comment 7

[Mitchell Baker]

1.  I'm not familiar with the documents below from the localization site; or who 

decided or on what basis that the ship's wheel was a netscape term.  This was not 

the case when we wrote the NPL.  In the NPL (that's Netscape PL),  Amendment 

Section III was very specific about identifying the trademarks and logos not 

licensed under the NPL.  That language is:  





"III. Netscape and logo. 

              This License does not grant any rights to use the trademarks 

"Netscape'', the "Netscape N and horizon'' logo or the "Netscape lighthouse" 

logo, "Netcenter", "Gecko", "Java" or "JavaScript",

              "Smart Browsing" even if such marks are included in the Original 

Code or Modifications. 





So the lighthouse is not for the mozilla codebase.  The ship's wheel was not 

mentioned, so my believe is that it was intended that the community be able to 

use this logo.  I believe this because the ship's wheel existed at the time we 

wrote the NPL, and certainly at the time we reviewed this list when the 1.1 

version was released.  



  I have no idea if the documents cited below are were originally written for a 

different localization program, or were written for the v.6 program.  In any 

case, the NPL is the controlling doc for mozilla code.



Note also that Netscape may have developed new icons/logos/trademarks after the 

1.1 version of the license was released.  So if there are new things which 

Netscape doesn't want the community to use, it seems fair that Netscape should be 

able to claim these, even if the existing license doesn't include them.  The next 

version of the NPL ought to find a way for Netscape to update this list without 

having to rely on a new version.  



Finally, in response to Ben's comment,  i believe the name to which Netscape 

claims trademark rights is "Netscape Gecko" not Gecko.

Comment 8

[Matthew T (active 1999-2002)]

Ok, so let me get this straight ... Mozilla *can* use the ship's wheel, but we 
*can't* use the words `Java' or `JavaScript'?

Things could get pretty interesting if that's the case. Sure, it's relatively 
easy to change `JavaScript' to `ECMAScript' throughout, but what are we 
supposed to call Java? `ECMA TC-41', or something obscure like that??

Comment 9

[Mitchell Baker]

Yes, that's the delight of trademark law.  Java and Javascript are trademarks 
owned by Sun, to which normal trademark law applies.   

Comment 10

[Matthew T (active 1999-2002)]

Ho-kay then. Coming up with an icon for Navigator which was more obviously 
Navigator-ish than the ship's wheel would be practically impossible, so I'm going 
to mark this as a dup of the previous INVALID bug.

Filed bug 44841 and bug 44843 about removing all references to JavaScript and 
Java, respectively, from Mozilla.


*** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of 14288 ***

Comment 11

[John Unruh]

Verified duplicate.