Closed
Bug 55454
Opened 24 years ago
Closed 22 years ago
Make (new) Modern the mozilla default skin
Categories
(Marketing :: General, task, P3)
Marketing
General
Tracking
(Not tracked)
RESOLVED
WONTFIX
People
(Reporter: mozilla, Assigned: bugs)
References
Details
I feel Modern/2 has gone to a point where it is good enough to use as a default
skin. If we use classic the general public will lok at us as being stuck in the
past and lagging behind even NS in the UI.
Therefore it is my vote that Modern/2 become the default skin
Comment 1•24 years ago
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why is this assigned to me? modern as default...lol...you're lucky I didn't
mark this wontfix!
-> ui/df?
Assignee: blakeross → hangas
Component: Evangelism → User Interface: Design Feedback
QA Contact: zach → mpt
Summary: Make Modern/2 default skin → Make Modern the default skin
Comment 2•24 years ago
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Status: NEW → RESOLVED
Closed: 24 years ago
Resolution: --- → DUPLICATE
Comment 4•24 years ago
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not a dup, this deals with the new modern skin.
Status: VERIFIED → REOPENED
Resolution: DUPLICATE → ---
Summary: Make Modern the default skin → Make (new) Modern the default skin
Comment 5•24 years ago
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I think that modern/2 is the better choice for default. In former times,
modern/1 was the default, and noone wanted to default classic, and now ppl don't
default the much better modern/2? why? It's far more appreciated by users than
modern/1 ever dreamed to be....
Comment 6•24 years ago
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Robert, that is incorrect. The default skin for Mozilla was decided after a vote,
which Classic won by 79 votes to 10.
If a vote between Classic and the new Modern were held today, I would predict
that Classic would win on Mac OS, Modern would win on Unix, and votes would be
about evenly split on Windows. I would also predict that the level of support for
the new Modern would decrease over time, as more and more people started using
Mozilla (and had to look at the interface) for extended periods of time.
Comment 7•24 years ago
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Matthew, thanks. I didn't know of the vote, could have been in a time frame
where I didn't get everything that was happening...
Don't know how a vote would end today but you could be right. How the future
would look, well, I'm not sure you're true - it could also happen that people
start liking that skin more and more...
Anyways, I'd be happy to see a skin more different from Netscape 4 as a default.
OTOH, it would also be nice to see one different from NS6 - but we don't have
one built in currently.
We shouldn't look like old technology, Mozilla is the *future* I believe - and
for me, Classic is imitating the old days (even if some people might start
flaming me now). Modern/2 is at least looking quite - as the name says - modern.
Would be even better if we could have a completely different, also
modern-looking non-Netscapeish default skin...
In the mean time, I'd just like us to look more modern by default...
Comment 8•24 years ago
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Modern is too radical and flashy, it's won't be good for extended periods of
time.
Classic is too much like the old days.
We need a new skin that looks professional and acts like other apps, but which
isn't very flashy, and that doesn't resemble older versions.
Sending to Ben to handle the discussion. Modern is currently the default skin
for Netscape, the choice here is for the mozilla default skin (changing summary).
Assignee: hangas → ben
Status: REOPENED → NEW
Summary: Make (new) Modern the default skin → Make (new) Modern the mozilla default skin
Comment 10•24 years ago
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Ben has already asked for new icons for Classic. I think the intent is for
Classic to evolve to be nicer over time, rather than being permanently tied to
the 4.x look. Right, Ben?
Reporter | ||
Comment 11•24 years ago
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I hope so, I just think that if we stick to classic as default we lok like we
are holding on to old technology and not trying to start new. How will the
general public know that this is a complete rewrite of NS code if it looks the
same as the 4.x series??? I just say make modern the default until we can come
up with "our" own skin.
Comment 12•24 years ago
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The decision to switch to classic was made at the height of the dissatisfaction
with Modern 1. This was despite the obvious fact that Modern 1 hadn't been
touched in weeks at that point and anyone reading .ui knew there was a new skin
coming.
Oddly enough, with people working on Classic daily and not working on Modern1 at
all Classic looked much better than Modern1 at that point.
Time to re-evaluate that decision people. Modern 2 is not exactly aligned with
my taste, but its damn nice.
Comment 13•24 years ago
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So what bug do we vote for if we _don't_ want Modern2 to be the default?
Reporter | ||
Comment 14•24 years ago
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Well this bug looks as though no one is wanting to consider it...so either we
take it into consideration or lets just kill this bug dead..
Comment 15•24 years ago
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Setting up a second-round bug-off between Classic and Modern2 is on my to-do
list. Sorry for the delay.
Comment 16•24 years ago
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Yah baybee! I agree!
Comment 17•24 years ago
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*** Bug 58087 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 18•24 years ago
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Chaning the qa contact on these bugs to me. MPT will be moving to the
owner of this component shortly. I would like to thank him for all his hard
work as he moves roles in mozilla.org...Yada, Yada, Yada...
QA Contact: mpt → zach
Comment 19•24 years ago
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*** Bug 79385 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 20•24 years ago
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Fwiw, this bug was filed for making Modern 2 the default skin, and Modern 2 was
recently replaced by Modern 3.
Reporter | ||
Comment 21•24 years ago
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Well so lets make the new modern the default anyway....
I like it better ;)
We need something to differenciate ourselves from the 4.x series of communicator
Comment 22•24 years ago
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Modern (whatever version) is a Netscape proprietary design intended to give
Netscape 6.x brand identity. Netscape donates that design and implementation to
Mozilla and we use it as an alternate theme. This helps debug the underlying XUL
and makes Mozilla a stronger and more considerate foundation for other theme
builders. Classic isn't a great default in that it looks a lot like Netscape
4.x. But Modern is Netscape's current look. Mozilla should not look identical
to Netscape's current shipping products. This only serves to blur the line
between Mozilla and Netscape which is exactly what we _don't_ want to do. If
there are volunteers willing to make Classic look like something new and fresh
that is great. If there are volunteers who want to write an entirely new theme
for Mozilla (in time for 1.0?) then great.
This bug is not going to be fixed.
Assignee | ||
Comment 23•24 years ago
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very well...
Status: NEW → RESOLVED
Closed: 24 years ago → 24 years ago
Resolution: --- → WONTFIX
Comment 24•23 years ago
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I would prefer if someone made an entirely new skin - maybe call it the
"Professional skin" - in time for Moz 1.0.
Please don't change the feel of the Classic skin. There are people like me who
use it *precisely* because it looks like Communicator. I would even go further
and ask that Classic be improved to make it look more like the 4.x series - such
as changing the Personal Toolbar icons to make it look like the Personal Toolbar
in Communicator.
Comment 25•23 years ago
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LittleMozilla is a rather nice skin, i need to contribute a few fixes back to
the author, but it might be closer to the professional feel you want.
Comment 26•23 years ago
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Re: #22 (Asa Dotzler)
That being the case, we really need to have a skin called "Mozilla"; a third
choice to make us not look like Netscape 4.x, Netscape 6.x or any version of
Netscape. Under your argument (which I agree with), Mozilla is already blurring
the line with Netscape, since it looks just like Netscape 4.x. Is there already
a bug # for a new skin?
Comment 27•23 years ago
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re comment #22 -- While I appreciate the desire to differentiate Netscape and
Mozilla, I'm not sure the benefits of that are greater than the benefits of
defaulting to Modern.
Classic drives people away: It looks ugly and archaic, and tabs don't work well
(see bug 109607). People do not change the theme unless someone tells them to
-- I've seen reviews (e.g. C'Net) done in Classic.
Comment 28•22 years ago
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*** Bug 181409 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 29•22 years ago
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It sounds like there are some people who strongly prefer the ascetic looks of
Classic. I also see Asa's point about not using Modern to keep mozilla distinct
from Netscape. However, Classic is both ugly and archaic. Notice that it is
archaic not just because it looks like Navigator 4, but rather because it is
counter to recent UI trends (think Aqua, Gnome, XP, AOL 8). Users expect
colorfun, "fun" UI. Orbit does an excellent job on that dimension, while at the
same time being perfectly usable for extended perionds of time.
So, how about this possibility:
1) Mozilla ships with Classic, Modern or Orbit.
2) When it is launched for the first time, it shows the user a screen asking
them to choose between Classic and Orbit. (The screen should probably show a
piece of screenshot like themes.mozdev.org does it.) Mozilla then continues to
be loaded with the selected skin.
3) There continues to be a View > Apply Theme menu
This way everyone immediately uses whichever style they like. Since they only
see a screenshot of the "other" theme for a short time, it doesn't come to haunt
them in their sleep either...
Comment 30•22 years ago
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*** Bug 188742 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 31•22 years ago
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*** Bug 212957 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 32•22 years ago
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*** Bug 213508 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 33•22 years ago
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Product-> Marketing: Classic makes Moz a harder sell.
Reopening: Asa wrote in comment 22 back in May 2001
"Modern (whatever version) is a Netscape proprietary design intended to give
Netscape 6.x brand identity. Netscape donates that design and implementation to
Mozilla and we use it as an alternate theme. ..."
Have things changed?
Status: RESOLVED → REOPENED
Component: Browser-General → General
Product: Browser → Marketing
Resolution: WONTFIX → ---
Version: Trunk → unspecified
Comment 34•22 years ago
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With regards especially to comment #8, comment #22, comment #24, comment #26,
and comment #29 ... just to name a few: :)
Things have changed a bit since most of those comments were written. AOL is
silently putting Netscape in a coffin, Mozilla is on its way to becoming
independent, and we now have a standalone browser and mail/news client in the works.
We seem to have three kinds of views: those who like modern, those who like
classic and its icons, and those who like classic but only for the native-drawn
appearance and wish the icons had a more modern (in the general, not theme,
sense) look.
As most know, Arvid is working on Qute for Mozilla Firebird and Mozilla
Thunderbird. This may satisfy the third group I mentioned above for those who
like the native appearance (myself included) but who don't like the aging
appearance of the classic icons (myself included). Would Arvid--or anyone--be
willing to "port" this to Mozilla (Seamonkey) when it's finished? Yes, we'll
need a few more icons even when it's completel, but it'll be a huge start.
But it'll have both good, this-decade icons (a plus for modern but seeming lack
for classic) as well as native-looking widgets (a plus for classic but
nonexistent in modern)--and create something between the two. It just might
satisfy those who are in between.
Personally, I do like modern, but I'm indifferent to making it the default. I
know many would feel more comfortable without having to learn a new-looking GUI,
but Classic's old appearance may drive off many. (And it's *huge* tabs on
Windows XP Luna don't help.)
Assignee | ||
Comment 35•22 years ago
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Nope. Nothing's changed.
Status: REOPENED → RESOLVED
Closed: 24 years ago → 22 years ago
Resolution: --- → WONTFIX
Comment 36•22 years ago
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Ben - would you care to elaborate? What's now preventing us from making modern
the default?
Comment 37•19 years ago
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Adding self to CC
Request Change of Title:
From: Make (new) Modern the mozilla default skin
To: We need a new Default skin; was: (Make Modern the mozilla default skin)
Added this bug to Forgotten Bugs thread at MozillaZine at:
http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?p=1681285.
Please: Let there be a much better theme than the current default Classic theme
be developed. Classic does not impress first-time users. Qute on Firefox is much
better. Maybe Arvid (http://quadrone.org/) can create a full suite of icons for
SeaMonkey?
Or simply use Orbit or something from http://spuler.us. I'm sure Aaron Spuler
will be happy to help...
Maybe this can be done before the release of SeaMonkey 1_0 final?
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