580216 - [autoconfig] Make 'Manual Setup' for New Account wizard more intuitive

Status: RESOLVED INVALID

(Thunderbird :: Account Manager, defect)

Description

[Charles]

User-Agent:       Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.6) Gecko/20100625 Firefox/3.6.6
Build Identifier: 3.1 final

Currently, when the New Mail Account Wizard runs and auto-detect has problems or the user gets frustrated because auto-detect wants to set things up differently from what the user wants and the user clicks 'Manual Setup', the new account dialog simply disappears and you are dropped into the 'Account Settings' window.

If this is a new installation, and this is the first account being created, it lands you on the settings page for the new account you just created...

*However*...

If you already have a bunch of accounts, and you are creating a new mail account from the 'Account Settings' > Add Mail Account' wizard, this is not the case - at least, not for me. It seems to randomly pick an account to land you on, but after 5 attempts, not once did it land me on the new one I just created.

I'm sure that the more accounts you have, the more problematic this is, but regardless:

1. it is simply wrong/broken to drop the user to a different account from the one just created, and

2. the entire process of manually creating an account is not just 'not very intuitive', it is maddeningly confusing - and if it is confusing for me, a very experienced IT person, consider how confusing it must be for non-experienced users.

The good news is this can be fixed very simply.

Reproducible: Always

Steps to Reproduce:
1. Start TB with a new/clean profile,

2. Create a new mail account using the new account wizard when TB starts up using dummy info,

3. Open the 'Account Settings',

4. Click  'Account Actions' > 'Add Mail Account',

5. Enter dummy info for new account and click 'Continue',

6. Click 'Stop' then click the 'Manual Setup' button,
Actual Results:  
1. You are dropped into the Account Settings window/dialog, but for the *first* account you created, instead of the settings for the account you just created, and

2. The new account that you just created is an IMAP account.

3. What if I wanted a POP account? Most people simply will not realize that they need to change the account type in the wizard to POP *before* clicking the 'Manual Setup' button.

Expected Results:  
Rather than *creating* the account when the 'Manual Setup' button is clicked and dropping the user into the Account Settings with an IMAP account created (what if the user wants a POP account? Too Bad.), just do it thusly:

1. Lose the current 'Manual Setup' button (bear with me),

2. Change the 'Stop' label for the button currently used to stop the auto-detect process to 'Stop/Manual Setup',

3. User starts process for creating a new account,

4. User doesn't like how auto-detect process is going (for whatever reason),

5. User clicks the new 'Stop/Manual Setup' button and the following happens:

 5a. Auto-detect process is *suspended*,

 5b. The user *remains* on the 'Mail Acccount Setup' dialog window,

 5c. The button that *was* named 'Stop/Manual Setup' changes to
     'Test Settings',

 5d. A new button labeled 'Restart Auto-Detect Process' appears where
     the current 'Manual Setup' button was/is currently located,

6. User *manually* defines all of the settings, then:

 6a. If user clicks 'Test Settings', the settings manually specified are
     simply *tested* - no attempt to 'auto-detect' other settings is made

 6b. If user clicks the new 'Restart Auto-Detect Process' button, the new
     account/auto-detect process simply starts all over again

 6c. If user clicks the 'Create Account' button, the new Account is simply
     created with the settings as manually specified by the user

8. (Optional) A dialog pops-up informing the user the new account was created with the settings they provided, and prompts them to 'check the account for new messages' or 'go to my Account Settings to make further adjustments'...

I'm setting this to 'Major: A major feature is broken.' because, in my opinion, as large part of the 'major feature' of creating new accounts - ie, manually creating an account - *is* broken.

Comment 1

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

Please note: the normal vehicle is to use the "Stop" button. Due to a bug, you may have to press is several times (which has a patch in bug 549045 that is waiting for review since over 3 months already). That will get you into "Edit" mode, which is different from "Manual Setup".

> 2. the entire process of manually creating an account is not just 'not very
> intuitive', it is maddeningly confusing

Agreed. Compare bug 549045, which will hopefully improve the situation a lot.

> It seems to randomly pick an account to land you on, but after 5 attempts,
> not once did it land me on the new one I just created.

WORKSFORME
In Account Manager dialog, I do end up on exactly the new account, even though I have several existing accounts.

> Expected Results:  

We do pretty much *exactly* that.
It's just the bug that the "Stop" button doesn't work properly and you have to press it several times and/or wait. Thus,

Comment 2

[Raanan Barzel]

(In reply to comment #1)
> It's just the bug that the "Stop" button doesn't work properly and you have to
> press it several times and/or wait. Thus,

It is not "just" that: the fact that the process starts automatically, in a different window and without any user action, is responsible for most of the confusion. Let the user decide on the next step (auto/manual) and when it starts, instead of having to stop something the user did not start.

Comment 3

[Charles]

Sorry Ben, but this is absolutely NOT a duplicate of bug 534588...

That bug and the bugs it references are mostly about AUTO-DETECT stuff, this one is about MANUAL account creation. Yes, fixing those will make the suggested fix for this bug report work better/more reliably, but they are *not* the same.

I have confirmed the actual bug I'm reporting here on 3 different computers, all running XP Pro sp3, all with TB 3.1 final, and all by allowing TB to create a new profile at startup as described above (so, no extension or possible profile corruption from updates or anything).

1. There *is* a bug here, so please don't be so hasty, and

2. This is also a very specific enhancement request that, if you will take the time to read it, will result in an incredibly easy way to set up an account manually, and resolving all of the surrounding frustration.

It's fine if you don't like the idea (but hopefully you would at least say *why*), but please don't just mark my bug as a duplicate of something only barely related (by nature of them both having to do wth account creation).

As for the actual bug - like I said, I have confirmed this on 3 different computers, so there *is * a bug here somewhere and more investigation is warranted.

Now I'll reply to your comments inline...

Comment 4

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

> the fact that the process starts automatically

That's a design decision. It was already discussed and decided that we do automatic, despite objections from some users.

I personally believe only the heuristic is the problem, as the ISPDB is almost sure to provide correct settings, faster than the user can enter them, and usually better config (we often have SSL configs even though the ISP doesn't inform users about it).

Either way, that's offtopic here. This bug already has too many issues rolled into one.

> That bug and the bugs it references are mostly about AUTO-DETECT stuff, this
> one is about MANUAL account creation.

You didn't understand me. Because the Stop button doesn't work properly, you never *saw* the manual account creation. It looks almost exactly as you requested. Please try what I said and you'll hopefully see.

Comment 5

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

Attachment: Manual Edit mode, in TB 3.1, after pressing Stop several times and waiting

Comment 6

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

>  5a. Auto-detect process is *suspended*,

WORKSFORME, with bugs (bug 534588)

>  5b. The user *remains* on the 'Mail Acccount Setup' dialog window,

WORKSFORME

>  5c. The button that *was* named 'Stop/Manual Setup' changes to
>      'Test Settings',

WORKSFORME

> 5d. A new button labeled 'Restart Auto-Detect Process' appears where
>     the current 'Manual Setup' button was/is currently located,

WORKSFORME (with different UI): "Start over"

> 6. User *manually* defines all of the settings, then:

WORKSFORME

> 6a. If user clicks 'Test Settings', the settings manually specified are
>     simply *tested* - no attempt to 'auto-detect' other settings is made

WORKSFORME

> 6b. If user clicks the new 'Restart Auto-Detect Process' button, the new
>     account/auto-detect process simply starts all over again

("Start over")
WORKSFORME

> 6c. If user clicks the 'Create Account' button, the new Account is simply
>     created with the settings as manually specified by the user

WORKSFORME
BUT we check whether it actually works.

It makes no sense to create a config which we are sure will fail to work. If the test fails, "Get Mail" / Login later will also fail.
If you don't want any test, you can use the "Manual Setup" button.

Comment 7

[Charles]

(In reply to comment #1)
> Please note: the normal vehicle is to use the "Stop" button.

? Normal vehicle for what? Manually setting up an account? If that is what you mean, I am fully aware of this. It is the *massive* *confusion* this can cause, as evidenced by the numerous bug reports and frustrated rants all over the internet about the 'New Account Wizard', that caused me to take the time to report this bug and make a very detailed suggestion for not only making the bug moot, but eliminating all of the stuff that is currently causing the massive confusion and frustration.

> Due to a bug, you may have to press is several times (which has a patch
> in bug 549045 that is waiting for review since over 3 months already).
> That will get you into "Edit" mode, which is different from "Manual Setup".

Ok... that is a really, really long one to read... ;)

Is there a build I could download to test this? Or at least some screenshots/mock-ups of what this is going to look like, and some description of the behavior?

>> 2. the entire process of manually creating an account is not just 'not very
>> intuitive', it is maddeningly confusing

> Agreed. Compare bug 549045, which will hopefully improve the situation a lot.

I hope so...

>> It seems to randomly pick an account to land you on, but after 5 attempts,
>> not once did it land me on the new one I just created.

> WORKSFORME
> In Account Manager dialog, I do end up on exactly the new account, even though
> I have several existing accounts.

Please try to reproduce it as I described (just move your 'Thunderbird' folder from the 'Applications Data' folder and let TB create a new one from scratch).

Maybe there is something different about your profile, I don't know, all I know for sure is I repeated this independently on 3 different PCs with new/clean profiles created by TB on first run, so it is definitely not something wrong with my profile.

>> Expected Results:  

> We do pretty much *exactly* that.

??? Not currently you don't - unless you are talking about the ongoing work to fix bug 549045? As I said above, I'd be very interested in testing this if a build is available...

> It's just the bug that the "Stop" button doesn't work properly and you have to
> press it several times and/or wait.

Again, that bug has nothing to do with this one. I know how to tell when the auto-detect process is stopped, and honestly that bug, while a minor annoyance, never bothered me enough to report.

> Thus,
> *** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of bug 534588 ***

Unmarking as duplicate - because it isn't.

The *bug* is that when the 'Manual Setup' button is clicked, you are dropped to the Account Settings but *not* for the account just created.

I can duplicate this at will on a clean profile.

The 'Expected Results' described above is simply a feature enhancement to fix the bug by making it moot, and making manual account creation much easier. Maybe/hopefully bug 549045 will implement some of my suggestions by accident... :)

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to take a look...

Comment 8

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

> > bug 549045
> some screenshots/mock-ups of what this is going to look like

There are screenshots right in the bug!

> Please try to reproduce it as I described

I did. However, you show no evidence of having tried what *I* described or that you ever saw the UI that I attached the screenshot of.

I showed, in detail, that all your "Expected results" already exist, modulo various, specific code bugs which already have existing bug reports.

Comment 9

[Charles]

Ok - I guess I should have pointed out which of the steps under 'Expected Results' actually deviate from current behavior - that would be steps 1, 2, 5c and 6c...

(In reply to comment #6)
>>  5c. The button that *was* named 'Stop/Manual Setup' changes to
>>      'Test Settings',

> WORKSFORME

Ok, yeah, although it is labeled 'Re-test Configuration' - the only nit is I'd change it to 'Re-test Settings' - 'settings' is more 'user-speak' than 'configuration'.

>> 5d. A new button labeled 'Restart Auto-Detect Process' appears where
>>     the current 'Manual Setup' button was/is currently located,

> WORKSFORME (with different UI): "Start over"

Ok, good point, I'd forgotten about that - but I'd make it a button rather than what looks like a link (blue underlined text)... anyway, yes, this negates the need for step 5d...

>> 6c. If user clicks the 'Create Account' button, the new Account is simply
>>     created with the settings as manually specified by the user

> WORKSFORME

Actually, I don't see this working right now. The 'Create Account' button is totally greyed out at this point for me. What am I missing?

> BUT we check whether it actually works.

I can understand the argument for checking it, but you should absolutely *not* refuse to create the account because the test fails...

What if I'm offline/without an internet connection? Or behind a special firewall? Please don't try too hard to protect me from myself... ;)

> It makes no sense to create a config which we are sure will fail to work.

1. But there are situations where the test might fail at that time but the account config is good, and

2. What is the difference between this and what happens right now when, 'Manual Setup' is clicked - it blindly creates an account based on - what? I'm still not sure?

> If the test fails, "Get Mail" / Login later will also fail.

Not necessarily - see above.

> If you don't want any test, you can use the "Manual Setup" button.

But that is one of my points here...

Having both a 'Manual Setup' button and a 'Creat Account' button is one of the confusing aspects to this process.

Changing the 'Stop' button to 'Stop/Manual Setup', and enabling the 'Create Account' button as a way to manually create the account, totally eliminates this confusion.

But, until I can see what bug 549045 will do for this process, I cannot say whether or not it will fix it to my satisfaction or not... ;)

Comment 10

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

> The 'Create Account' button is
> totally greyed out at this point for me. What am I missing?

That you need to click "Re-Test"
(Again, better in bug 549045.)

> What if I'm offline/without an internet connection?

That's what you have the "Manual Setup..." (I call it 'Advanced Setup') for, which is for advanced users.

> 2. What is the difference between this and what happens right now when,
> 'Manual Setup' is clicked - it blindly creates an account based on

Exactly, and goes to the Account Manager, where you can set all the advanced fields immediately.

Comment 11

[Charles]

(In reply to comment #10)
>> The 'Create Account' button is
>> totally greyed out at this point for me. What am I missing?

> That you need to click "Re-Test"
> (Again, better in bug 549045.)

And this is precisely one of the things that is causing confusion.

If you want to test the settings before creating the account, fine - 'just do it' as Nike says. But do it when the user clicks 'Create Account' - then if it fails, tell the user, and let *the user* decide if the failure is acceptable or not.

>> What if I'm offline/without an internet connection?

> That's what you have the "Manual Setup..." (I call it 'Advanced Setup') for,
> which is for advanced users.

Again, this is *precisely* what is causing the confusion...

Clicking the 'Manual Setup' button *creates an account*, it just does it without testing the settings. So, to eliminate the confusion, *eliminate the button*, since the 'Create Account' button *does the same thing* (creates an account) - just add a *non-blocking* test (that does *not* attempt to *change* the settings from the ones specified by the user) that happens between clicking the button and the account creation, which, if successful, just creates the account.

You actually have *more* control* this way, since you can always test the settings, and inform the user when there is a problem - ie, "We were unable to successfully test your account settings - are you sure you want to create the account anyway? Yes / No", where clicking No just returns them to the 'Mail Account Setup' window...

>> 2. What is the difference between this and what happens right now when,
>> 'Manual Setup' is clicked - it blindly creates an account based on

> Exactly, and goes to the Account Manager, where you can set all the advanced
> fields immediately.

1. But this is *needlessly confusing*, due to 2 different buttons, both designed to 'Create an Account', but each doing so with different results, *neither* of which is intuitive, and

2. it *doesn't* go to the *new* account - meaning, the settings details displayed are for the *first* account created, not the second - at least, for me, on *multiple* computers, all using brand new/clean profiles, as described above - and I just re-confirmed this on a FIFTH computer.

Just because you are unable to confirm the bug doesn't mean it isn't there. Experiment - I guarantee you will see what I'm seeing.

Want me to do a screen capture session to prove it?

Also - Ben, *I* am the one reporting this bug, please *stop* setting it to WFM, because THERE IS A BUG HERE. Sorry for yelling, but your doing this is really starting to irritate me.

Comment 12

[Charles]

(In reply to comment #7)
> Is there a build I could download to test this? Or at least some
> screenshots/mock-ups of what this is going to look like, and some description
> of the behavior?

Is there?

Comment 13

[Charles]

(In reply to comment #8)
>>> bug 549045
>> some screenshots/mock-ups of what this is going to look like

> There are screenshots right in the bug!

Yes, I did finally find some - after seeing a whole bunch linking to code snippets... like I said - that is a really, really long bug to read. ;)

>> Please try to reproduce it as I described

> I did. However, you show no evidence of having tried what *I*
> described or that you ever saw the UI that I attached the screenshot
> of.

I see the screen - but the 'Create Account' button is disabled... *that* is one of the problems - the other being *another* button for creating the account manually that is misleadingly labeled 'Manual Setup'.

> I showed, in detail, that all your "Expected results" already exist,
> modulo various, specific code bugs which already have existing bug
> reports.

No - otherwise the 'Create Account' button would enable me to create the account, and the 'Manual Setup' button would be gone, since these are the critical parts of my 'Expected Results'.

Again - having *both* the 'Manual Setup' *and* the 'Create Account' buttons is one of the problems here... it simply is *not* clear that in order to manually create an account with this screen you need to use make your changes and click 'Manual Setup'...

Changing it per this request just 'makes sense'...

Comment 14

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

> *I* am the one reporting this bug

And I may be the one who will fix it, so I can close bugs that are not properly reported.

> please *stop* setting it to WFM, because THERE IS A BUG HERE

Please stop reopening this bug, because I showed, in detail, that the majority of your comments are WORKSFORME. Parts of it are due to separate, already known bugs. Please stop hammering on it, because I have other work to do.

> 2. it *doesn't* go to the *new* account - meaning, the settings details
> displayed are for the *first* account created, not the second

You haven't showed a reproduction for that part. As I said, it WFM.

Here in this bug, you already touched 3-4 totally independent problems. This bug report is not workable this way. If there is a *specific* *bug*, please file a new bug and quote the number here.

If you disagree with how the UI works, take it to the newsgroups and Bryan, *after* understanding bug 549045, because it solves a whole lot of the UI problems, including some you mentioned. And yes, there are test builds there, as well as screenshots.

Comment 15

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

>>>> bug 549045
>>> some screenshots/mock-ups of what this is going to look like
>> There are screenshots right in the bug!
> Yes, I did finally find some 

huch? They are the first attachments there! How can you possibly overlook them?

Comment 16

[Charles]

(In reply to comment #15)
>>>>> bug 549045
>>>> some screenshots/mock-ups of what this is going to look like
>>> There are screenshots right in the bug!
>> Yes, I did finally find some 

> huch? They are the first attachments there! How can you possibly overlook them?

Heh... maybe because I was still on my first cup of coffee when I posted the bug report and I was looking for the attachments *in the bug comments*.

I don't use this bug reporter much, only when dealing with an issue near/dear to my heart, so apologies for forgetting the attachments are at the top.
I do have one or two comments about them, but I'll go post there, but I'll just say that yes, it looks like once that is implemented, it will go far to eliminating most of the confusion...

Can you at least answer - is there a build available where I can test how this works so I can comment more intelligently?

Thanks...

Comment 17

[Charles]

(In reply to comment #14)
>> *I* am the one reporting this bug

> And I may be the one who will fix it, so I can close bugs that are not
> properly reported.

I'll take that to mean that the bug summary was more like an enhancement request, which was prompted by the bug in question...

Ok, I'll go open a new bug to deal just with the bug in question...

>> 2. it *doesn't* go to the *new* account - meaning, the settings details
>> displayed are for the *first* account created, not the second

> You haven't showed a reproduction for that part. As I said, it WFM.

> Here in this bug, you already touched 3-4 totally independent problems. This
> bug report is not workable this way. If there is a *specific* *bug*, please
> file a new bug and quote the number here.

Will do... and I do see where I goofed in this regard and will try to do better...

> If you disagree with how the UI works, take it to the newsgroups and Bryan,
> *after* understanding bug 549045, because it solves a whole lot of the UI
> problems, including some you mentioned. And yes, there are test builds there,
> as well as screenshots.

If there is a build available for testing, it would go a long way to helping me understand how th new UI works, since screenshots always leave something out.

Resolving this one as invalid...

Comment 18

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

> I'll go open a new bug to deal just with the bug in question...

Thanks!

I wrote:
> And yes, there are test builds there

bug 549045 comment 40.

> I do have one or two comments about them, but I'll go post there

Please do not comment unless you read the bug.

Given that dmose, Bryan and bwinton question the usefulness of the patch, what
would be useful is if you summarized the problems with the current wizard and
how the new implementation in bug 549045 solves them.
As it stands, it's hard for me to prove that the patch is an improvement. So,
and independent voice would help. *but* please be entirely factual and limit it
to one comment/newsgroup posting/email, no debate.

Comment 19

[Charles]

(In reply to comment #18)
> > I'll go open a new bug to deal just with the bug in question...
> 
> Thanks!

Done - bug 580297

I also provided more specific steps to reproduce it - and I can reproduce it every time on any computer I want (5 total now)...

> I wrote:
>> And yes, there are test builds there

> bug 549045 comment 40.

Thanks!

>> I do have one or two comments about them, but I'll go post there

> Please do not comment unless you read the bug.
> 
> Given that dmose, Bryan and bwinton question the usefulness of the patch, what
> would be useful is if you summarized the problems with the current wizard and
> how the new implementation in bug 549045 solves them.

I'll be happy to after I've had time to play with the test build... :)

> As it stands, it's hard for me to prove that the patch is an improvement.
> So, and independent voice would help. *but* please be entirely factual and
> limit it to one comment/newsgroup posting/email, no debate.

OK - but do you mean one comment under bug 549045, and maybe another at the user forums and one email on one of the email lists?

Which (the bug? forums (which one)? mail list (which one)?) will have the best chance of having an impact?

Thanks Ben for sticking with me, I know I can be difficult sometimes...