Open Bug 762000 Opened 12 years ago Updated 2 years ago

Thunderbird can't be used as newsgroup reader only. TB demands an email address / account.

Categories

(Thunderbird :: Mail Window Front End, enhancement)

Product:
Thunderbird
Component:
Mail Window Front End
Type:
enhancement

Tracking

(Not tracked)

People

(Reporter: brille1, Assigned: aceman)

Details

Attachments

(1 file)

Sample Thunderbird installation documentation and prefs.js file
755.03 KB, application/octet-stream
Details 
After installing Thunderbird, cancelling the Create E-mail wizard and trying to create a newsgroup account, Thunderbird always asks to create a new newsgroup account whenever I try to compose a new message.


See here for details and screenshots:
https://getsatisfaction.com/mozilla_messaging/topics/cannot_create_newsgroup_messages


Here's the Thunderbird program information I copied into the clipboard:

  Allgemeine Informationen

    Name: Thunderbird
    Version: 12.0.1
    User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1
    Profilordner: C:\Users\{...}\AppData\Roaming\Thunderbird\Profiles\{...}.default
              (Lokaler Datenträger)
    Build-ID der Anwendung: 20120428123112
    Aktivierte Plugins: about:plugins
    Build-Konfiguration: about:buildconfig
    Absturzberichte: about:crashes
    Speicherverwendung: about:memory

  E-Mail- und Newsgruppen-Konten
    account2:
      INCOMING: account2, Lokale Ordner, (none) Local Folders, plain, passwordCleartext

    account3:
      INCOMING: account3, News-Konto, (nntp) news.gmane.org.:119, plain, passwordCleartext
      OUTGOING: smtp.live.com:587, alwaysSTARTTLS, passwordCleartext, true

  Erweiterungen
    British English Dictionary, 1.19.1, true, en-GB@dictionaries.addons.mozilla.org
    Deutsches Wörterbuch, 2.0.2, true, de-DE@dictionaries.addons.mozilla.org
    Test Pilot for Thunderbird, 1.3.9, true, tbtestpilot@labs.mozilla.com

  Wichtige modifizierte Einstellungen

    Name: Wert

      browser.cache.disk.capacity: 1048576
      browser.cache.disk.smart_size.first_run: false
      browser.cache.disk.smart_size_cached_value: 409600
      extensions.lastAppVersion: 12.0.1
      font.name.monospace.el: Consolas
      font.name.monospace.tr: Consolas
      font.name.monospace.x-baltic: Consolas
      font.name.monospace.x-central-euro: Consolas
      font.name.monospace.x-cyrillic: Consolas
      font.name.monospace.x-unicode: Consolas
      font.name.monospace.x-western: Consolas
      font.name.sans-serif.el: Calibri
      font.name.sans-serif.tr: Calibri
      font.name.sans-serif.x-baltic: Calibri
      font.name.sans-serif.x-central-euro: Calibri
      font.name.sans-serif.x-cyrillic: Calibri
      font.name.sans-serif.x-unicode: Calibri
      font.name.sans-serif.x-western: Calibri
      font.name.serif.el: Cambria
      font.name.serif.tr: Cambria
      font.name.serif.x-baltic: Cambria
      font.name.serif.x-central-euro: Cambria
      font.name.serif.x-cyrillic: Cambria
      font.name.serif.x-unicode: Cambria
      font.name.serif.x-western: Cambria
      font.size.fixed.el: 14
      font.size.fixed.tr: 14
      font.size.fixed.x-baltic: 14
      font.size.fixed.x-central-euro: 14
      font.size.fixed.x-cyrillic: 14
      font.size.fixed.x-unicode: 14
      font.size.fixed.x-western: 14
      font.size.variable.el: 17
      font.size.variable.tr: 17
      font.size.variable.x-baltic: 17
      font.size.variable.x-central-euro: 17
      font.size.variable.x-cyrillic: 17
      font.size.variable.x-unicode: 17
      font.size.variable.x-western: 17
      mail.openMessageBehavior.version: 1
      network.cookie.lifetimePolicy: 2
      network.cookie.prefsMigrated: true
      security.disable_button.openCertManager: false

  Grafik

    Karten-Beschreibung: VMware SVGA 3D (Microsoft Corporation - WDDM)
    Vendor-ID: 15ad
    Geräte-ID: 0405
    Karten-RAM: 128
    Karten-Treiber: vm3dum64 vm3dum vm3dgl64 vm3dgl
    Treiber-Version: 7.14.1.1134
    Treiber-Datum: 11-11-2011
    Direct2D aktiviert: Wurde auf Grund Ihrer Grafikkarte blockiert, da ungelöste Treiberprobleme bestehen.
    DirectWrite aktiviert: false (6.1.7601.17789)
    ClearType-Parameter: Gamma: 1800 Pixel Structure: RGB ClearType Level: 100 Enhanced Contrast: 50
    WebGL-Renderer: Wurde auf Grund Ihrer Grafikkarte blockiert, da ungelöste Treiberprobleme bestehen.
    GPU-beschleunigte Fenster: 0/1. Wurde auf Grund Ihrer Grafikkarte blockiert, da ungelöste Treiberprobleme bestehen.
Axel, do you have a specific reason to want to use TB in this manner?  Or is this just a hypothetical idea?

not to discourage use of TB as a newsreader, I'm not sure we want to care about this edge case.  Not to mention the fact that thunderbird's guts assumes you have at least one functioning account, which includes specifying an email address.  

The easy workaround here is for user to supply a non-sensical/non-existent email address - and people certainly do that.
Severity: normal → minor
Summary: Thunderbird can't be used as newsgroup reader only → Thunderbird can't be used as newsgroup reader only. TB demands an email address / account.
Whiteboard: [wontfix?]
Yeah, Local Folders and News account can not be set as default account, that may be why TB complains.
It can be for RSS , so why couldn't it be for NNTP ? Aceman is it difficult to fix ?
I do not know what are the requirements for a Default account.
If News account is missing some features I would not know to add them. But if it has all features, just wasn't allowed to be set as default till now then I could probably change that.
Wayne, I'm not using TB as an e-mail client. I'm either using my customer's MS Outlook or a public e-mail account web interface at various machines.

I'm just looking for an NNTP client to easily follow W3C discussions and I believed TB was supposed to provide that feature.

After Netscape Navigator I had been using Outlook Express or Live Mail for this purpose during recent years but I now wanted to try TB as the MS products seem to get discontinued.

Does my reason perhaps raise the chances to fix this issue?
Status: UNCONFIRMED → NEW
Ever confirmed: true
Whiteboard: [wontfix?]
OS: Windows 7 → All
Hardware: x86_64 → All
Magnus, Bienvenu, do you know what a NNTP account is missing to be eligible to be a Default account so that TB is content with such a configuration (NNTP+Local Folders)?
Severity: minor → enhancement
Version: unspecified → Trunk
I think default account is just a short way for us to say "yes we have an email account set up, if many email-accounts are set up, use this when there is no hints to use another one".
It would probably make sense to have a concept of "default news account", separate from "default mail account". That way, people with mail and news accounts could specify a default news account which would handle news:group.name URLs.
(In reply to Ludovic Hirlimann [:Usul] from comment #3)
> It can be for RSS , so why couldn't it be for NNTP ? Aceman is it difficult
> to fix ?

Actually it doesn't seem RSS can be default. But a POP3 account can be deferred to a RSS account.
(In reply to Magnus Melin from comment #7)
> I think default account is just a short way for us to say "yes we have an
> email account set up, if many email-accounts are set up, use this when there
> is no hints to use another one".

Yes, I think that's right. Perhaps we could allow a newsgroup account to be the default account if there are no other accounts, if that makes whatever parts of the code that needs a default account happy, when doing news only profiles. It's a bit of a slippery slope, though, if you add a mail account to such a profile - I'm not sure what would break if a news account were the default account, and you clicked a mailto link. Squib's idea is reasonable, but we'd probably need to teach a fair amount of code about the different kinds of default accounts.
Or maybe something like bug 379831 would be enough :)
If news account is first created account, Tb creates Local Folders" and sets "Local Folders" account as default account internally, and problem usually dorsn't occur in "using Tb as News reader only".

user_pref("mail.account.account1.server", "server1");
user_pref("mail.account.account2.identities", "id1");
user_pref("mail.account.account2.server", "server2");
user_pref("mail.accountmanager.accounts", "account1,account2");
user_pref("mail.accountmanager.defaultaccount", "account1");
user_pref("mail.accountmanager.localfoldersserver", "server1");
(server1=Local Folders, server2=News account) 
user_pref("mail.server.server1.hostname", "Local Folders");
user_pref("mail.server.server2.hostname", "news.a.a");

And, when mail accounts are created additionally, default account==Local Folders is kept.
This situation may produce problem in using Tb as mailter because the default account==Local Folders doesn't have associated identity due to "Local Folders".

Once an mail account is created and is set as "Default account", IIRC, Tb didn't permit delete of "defaulted account". 
But Tb 12/Tb 13 permitted to delete defaulted account(POP3, last mail account) via UI, and changed back to "default account==Local Folders".
At this stage, Tb doesn't delete associated SMTP server definition.
  Local Folders exists, and is set as default account
  Identity associated to a news account is defined
  SMTP server is defined
"Mail Composition and Send Later" had no problem.

When last news account was deleted via UI, Tb showed account Wizard for "RSS or news account"(same as File/New/Other account...).
And, if a news account was added, Tb never showed account wizard. 
So, possible outstanding problem is problem due to "no associated identity to default account=Local Folders and no associated actual mail server" only which may occur in filter execution etc.

There is no problem in "using Tb as news reader only" if news account is defined via Tb's UI, because news account definition of Tb requests email address which is defined as associated identity.
Funny "account Wizard for RSS or News account always" is problem only when user wants to use Tb with "Local Folders" only.

To Bug opener:
How did you delete mail accounts?   
How did you define news account?
What account is set as "default account" in your prefs.js?
Did you manually modify account definitions in prefs.js file(incluging via Config Editor) instead of difining/changing via UI?
Contains a detailed how-to description on Thunderbird failing set-up as a newsreader.
WADA, I have created a detailed set-up documentation now.

Does my attachment shed light on your questions?

Please note that this how-to documentation shows a number of errors in Thunderbird, one of them making it impossible to register a given news server because the Next button of the Account Wizard is disabled.
(In reply to Axel from comment #13)
> prefs.js file

> user_pref("mail.accountmanager.accounts", "account1");
> user_pref("mail.accountmanager.defaultaccount", "account1");

> user_pref("mail.account.account1.identities", "id1");
> user_pref("mail.account.account1.server", "server1");
> user_pref("mail.accountmanager.accounts", "account1");
> user_pref("mail.accountmanager.defaultaccount", "account1");

> user_pref("mail.identity.id1.useremail", "***@hotmail.com");

> user_pref("mail.server.server1.hostname", "news.gmane.org");
> user_pref("mail.server.server1.type", "nntp");
> user_pref("mail.server.server1.valid", false);

No "Local Folders" account is defined in your prefs.js.
And, user_pref("mail.accountmanager.localfoldersserver", "serverN") is not seen.
Only account1/server1/id1 for a news account is defined, and the news account1 is set as "default mail account" in your prefs.js. 
If news account is created via UI of Tb, "Local Folders" is created by Tb.

How did your generate such account/sever/identity definitions in your orefs.js?
According to screen shots in pdf file, the news server looks created via "news group access" by Firefox with setting "news client=thunderbird.exe" in Firefox.

Is the screen shots obtained with newly created Tb's profile? (it looks so.)
If so, it looks problem when news account is defined via non account-definition-UI-of-Tb before first "Local Folders" account creation via UI.
Yes, I rolled back my virtual machine and re-installed Thunderbird anew to be able to document the steps I've taken.

I didn't perform any other steps than the ones I documented.
So if you start Thunderbird and create a news account the normal way, everything should work?
Local Folders can't be made default in the Account manager. Yes, I know that in case no accounts can be made default, the function to determine the default account returns some random account (I think the first one). There is a bug open to rework that and return null (I think I'm on it:)). So maybe even if what WADA says works now, fixing that bug would break this use case again.

Maybe we should just disable some of the mail functions/buttons in case there is no usable mail account/default account.
Identity search logic searches in following order:
  Identity of selected account,
  If not found, Identity of Default Account,
  If not found, falls back to "account for server1", and uses Identity of the "account for server1".
  (server1 was/is POP3 or IMAP, if first defined account was/is POP3 or IMAP)  
Account creation in Tb 38.2.0.
  If News accout is created first after first prefs.js creation/use,
    account1 = server1 = Local Folders(type=none), defaultaccunt=account1, localfoldersserver=sever1
    account2 = server2 = News(type=nntp), associated identity = identity.id1
So, unless composer is invoked with "News account is selected at folder pane" as done in news posting,
Search is done in next order:
  Local Folders(selected account) -> Local Folders(defaultaccunt) -> Local Folders(server1)
Search is done in next order in bug opener's case(comment #0):
  Local Folders(selected account) -> Local Folders(defaultaccunt) -> non existent server(server1)

Workaround-1:
  Change to "server1 account" == "account/server which has associated Identity".
  defaultaccunt = Any of Local Folders or News account (edit prefs.js manually).
  localfoldersserver = Should be sever# for Local Folders.
  Because only 2 accounts are defined, server# change by editing prefs.js is pretty simple and easy.

Workaround-2:
  Define dummy POP3 server with non-existent server name suxh as z.z.z.
    account1 = server1 = POP3(type=pop3)associated identity = identity.id1, defaultaccunt=account1
               any mail address can be set in identity.id1 setting. 
    account2 = server2 = Local Folders(type=none) localfoldersserver=sever2
  If you dislike POP3 account in Folder Pane, hide it utilizing Global Inbox.
  IIUC, "default account" and "Global Inbox" is independent.
Any news on this issue?
Those who are fixing bugs or making enhancements apparently don't have this near the top of their list.  Not surprising, given Thunderbird is first and foremost a mail client.
On the other hand, instead of checking all the code using default account and teaching it about different classes of default accounts (e.g. news-default, mail-default, etc), if the report is about a single annoyance in the compose window that insists on a mail-type default account even though you can compose a message to a newsgroup (there is an identity when creating a news account).

May there be a problem because there is no SMTP server set up as part of creating a news account (only when mail accounts)? So TB has problems sending the composition? But a SMTP server can be added manually in the Account settings dialog.

But there usually is the Local folders account created and when you add a news account on top, TB is usually happy with Local folders being the default and I did not get any request to create a mail account in the composition window, when testing this bug.
That will change after bug 342632 and Local Folders is no longer enough for a default, so I'll assign myself to the bug here to see what needs to be done.

Axel, can you describe your setup more throughly and when exactly you receive the problem?
Assignee: nobody → acelists
(In reply to :aceman from comment #23)
> May there be a problem because there is no SMTP server set up as part of
> creating a news account (only when mail accounts)? So TB has problems
> sending the composition? 

No. Newsgroups go through NNTP only. There is no need for an SMTP.
But there is a SMTP server field in the Account settings dialog of a news account.
If a news account has an identity assigned (nsIMsgIdentity), that one has to have a smtp server assigned (as internal requirement).
If you say it is unused, we can lock the smtp server at the "use default" value and we could hide the field for this account type.
It's not necessarily unused. It is just not needed for pure newsgroup usage.
When you post to newsgroups you can also cc (etc) mail addresses, and then the SMTP server is needed.
The normal usage is that you just post to newsgroups though.
Severity: normal → S3
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