845819 - Overlay grain.png on the Folder Pane

Status: RESOLVED FIXED

(Thunderbird :: Folder and Message Lists, enhancement)

Description

[Josiah Bruner [:jsbruner]]

Note: Part of a blog post we are pushing to update TB UI.
======================

http://infinite-josiah.blogspot.com/2013/02/thunderbird-ui-concept.html

See point 6 there for more details on this.
======================

Basically in order to update the UI and be more consistent with our current style, we should overlay the grain.png image over the blue color, and that would make it look more like our website and new tab page on Firefox.

Not very important, but a welcome change.

Grain is available at: https://assets.mozillalabs.com/Websites/Sandstone/Backgrounds/

Comment 1

[Josiah Bruner [:jsbruner]]

Attachment: Patch.

Patch which overlays the grain.png image.

Comment 2

[Josiah Bruner [:jsbruner]]

Attachment: Current Folder Pane

Screenshot showing the default FolderPane.

Comment 3

[Josiah Bruner [:jsbruner]]

Attachment: New "grain" folderpane

Image showing the folder pane with grain. Requesting UI review from Blake.

Comment 4

[Josiah Bruner [:jsbruner]]

Attachment: Patch.

Updated patch SHOULD bring grain texture to all platforms. However, I am not able to verify any platform except for OS X. If someone could verify that would be great.

Comment 5

[Josiah Bruner [:jsbruner]]

Attachment: Patch.

Fixed oversight.

Comment 6

[Josiah Bruner [:jsbruner]]

Attachment: Patch.

Excluding Windows Classic theme from the grain texture. Also removed unnecessary code concerning Aero.

Comment 7

[Josiah Bruner [:jsbruner]]

Attachment: Patch.

Added grain to Linux.

Comment 8

[rsx11m]

(In reply to Josiah [:JosiahOne] from comment #6)
> Excluding Windows Classic theme from the grain texture.

Yes, that sounds like a good idea. The effect is subtle but nevertheless may appear a bit distracting with the Windows Classic and especially the High Contrast desktop themes.

Comment 9

[Richard Marti (:Paenglab)]

Comment on attachment 719619 [details] [diff] [review]
Patch.

Code looks good r+

Comment 10

[Blake Winton (:bwinton) (:☕️)]

Comment on attachment 719619 [details] [diff] [review]
Patch.

Subtle, but nice.  ui-r=me.

(Thanks for the ping!)

Comment 11

[Ryan VanderMeulen [:RyanVM]]

https://hg.mozilla.org/comm-central/rev/f24a3796b2f4

Comment 12

[rsx11m]

Comment on attachment 719107 [details]
New "grain" folderpane

I think that you can cancel the ui-review? request here now that the patch has been checked in.

Comment 13

[Josiah Bruner [:jsbruner]]

Comment on attachment 719107 [details]
New "grain" folderpane

Canceling unneeded ui review.

Comment 14

[Richard Marti (:Paenglab)]

Shouldn't the chat's contact list also become this grain to be consistent?

Comment 15

[rsx11m]

(that was spun off as bug 849215.)

Comment 16

[:aceman]

I can't say I see any difference in the screenshots. I wonder how much memory this invisible effect takes.

Comment 17

[Josiah Bruner [:jsbruner]]

(In reply to :aceman from comment #16)
> I can't say I see any difference in the screenshots. I wonder how much
> memory this invisible effect takes.

It's actually quite visible, but perhaps if you have a weaker monitor it does not appear visible. However, the file itself is 47 KB. Of course memory increase is not significant, but is there.

Comment 18

[:aceman]

I don't think the majority of TB users are some graphics professionals with "better than weak" monitors.

I can barely see the grain on a 24" IPS monitor (not calibrated), but only because you told me to look closely. If I didn't know what to look for in the shots, I'd consider it noise in the monitor.

Comment 19

[Josiah Bruner [:jsbruner]]

(In reply to :aceman from comment #18)
> I don't think the majority of TB users are some graphics professionals with
> "better than weak" monitors.
> 
> I can barely see the grain on a 24" IPS monitor (not calibrated), but only
> because you told me to look closely. If I didn't know what to look for in
> the shots, I'd consider it noise in the monitor.

My monitor is not meant for any graphic professionals. My monitor only cost $200, so that says a lot.

As for your issue, I realized on Linux the Folderpane is gray, so it will not show up well. Currently pondering on what to do about that...

Comment 20

[:aceman]

Attachment: Screenshot of the grain on Linux

Comment 21

[Josiah Bruner [:jsbruner]]

Attachment: Full Window on OS X with grain.

Here's a screenshot of the effect on a full window. You must make sure zoom is at 100% for it to be pretty clear.

Comment 22

[Josiah Bruner [:jsbruner]]

Attachment: Linux Grain Patch, Concept 1

Alright, this should work as a darker version of the grain that affects Linux only. Ace, what do you think of this? Does it show up better or worse?

Comment 23

[Josiah Bruner [:jsbruner]]

Attachment: Linux Grain Patch, Concept 2

Talked to Ace on IRC. That patch did not work, hopefully this one contrasts better.

Comment 24

[:aceman]

Attachment: screenshot of Linux with concept 2

It is visible now, but probably too much.

Comment 25

[Josiah Bruner [:jsbruner]]

Attachment: Linux Grain Patch, Concept 3

This should tame down the sharpness. If not, I can do it once more. Hopefully this will be better.

Comment 26

[:aceman]

Attachment: screenshot of Linux with concept 3

Comment 27

[Josiah Bruner [:jsbruner]]

(In reply to :aceman from comment #26)
> Created attachment 724562 [details]
> screenshot of Linux with concept 3

Ace, how does this look for you? Is it to grainy? If it looks fine then we could land this one for Linux.

Comment 28

[:aceman]

I've attached the screenshot with concept 3. I do see the grain there :)

Comment 29

[Josiah Bruner [:jsbruner]]

(In reply to :aceman from comment #28)
> I've attached the screenshot with concept 3. I do see the grain there :)

Yes, but to me that looks a little to grainy still? Do you agree?

Comment 30

[:aceman]

Can you make one in the middle between the windows version and concept 3 ?

Comment 31

[Josiah Bruner [:jsbruner]]

Attachment: Linux Grain Patch, Concept 4

Well, my previous image was somehow deleted. But I created a new one. Hopefully this is in between the two.  Try it out and let me know how it is.

Comment 32

[:aceman]

That is invisible again.

Comment 33

[Josiah Bruner [:jsbruner]]

Attachment: Linux Grain Patch, Concept 5

And again. Here's another.

Comment 34

[:aceman]

Attachment: screenshot of Linux with concept 5

Comment 35

[Josiah Bruner [:jsbruner]]

(In reply to :aceman from comment #34)
> Created attachment 728307 [details]
> screenshot of Linux with concept 5

Thanks, this looks pretty good. I think we could land this.

Comment 36

[Josiah Bruner [:jsbruner]]

Bug 853926

Comment 37

[calimeroteknik]

This was a bad surprise when starting thunderbird 24.

It looks really bad with a dark theme, for it predates the background color of the theme.
http://www.kirikoo.net/images/14Anonyme-20131031-202254.jpg

Not everyone is using a default gray / bright theme! Thunderbird supported perfectly dark themes until this was added.

Comment 38

[Josiah Bruner [:jsbruner]]

(In reply to calimeroteknik from comment #37)
> This was a bad surprise when starting thunderbird 24.
> 
> It looks really bad with a dark theme, for it predates the background color
> of the theme.
> http://www.kirikoo.net/images/14Anonyme-20131031-202254.jpg
> 
> Not everyone is using a default gray / bright theme! Thunderbird supported
> perfectly dark themes until this was added.

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner... 

But yes, that is definitely a severe problem and I am currently investigating a fix. I will file a bug on Monday and add those details to this bug. 

Thanks for the report, 
Josiah Bruner

Comment 39

[calimeroteknik]

Many thanks to you for the fix!

Comment 40

[David Rankin]

NO NO NO NO NO -- THERE SHOULD BE NO OVERLAY ON THE FOLDER PAGE. This kind of garbage drives users nuts. I use a dark background and the botched overlay in 24 and 25 rendered my light text unreadable and there was no way to turn it off (without hacking css files)

This whole line of thinking is flawed. If you want something added cosmetically, then DO IT TO YOUR OWN thunderbird install - DO NOT SCREW MINE UP. I don't want your setup, I want mine.

Comment 41

[:aceman]

David, please bug 935023.

Comment 42

[David Rankin]

When you do things like this, you cause bug reports to be written and scarce user and admin time to be spent trying to solve the problems one user choice has created: see, eg.:

https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/36979

Seriously, if you like the overlay, then add it to your own userChrome.css, do not make millions have to find a way to hack userChrome.css to remove what you think looks good. I understand progress and also what a "default" theme should be, and above all:

The default theme for anything should remain a simple, clean and plain "default" that is consistent between versions

We in opensource development would all do well to remember this. It is frustrating to spend hours trying to make tbird usable again, just because somebody decided to impose his thought of what "he likes" on the entire userbase without consideration that he might be screwing up the usability for everyone with a dark OS desktop theme involve.

You do great work, but a "default" should remain a consistent "default" between versions from an aesthetics standpoint. Enough said, this is just a very frustrating situation for all loyal tbird users that have dark OS themes.

Comment 43

[rsx11m]

That's bug 949389 now which you've opened, thus please let's keep the discussion there given that this bug is closed (and has been obsoleted by bug 935023 anyway, at least on trunk).

Comment 44

[Josiah Bruner [:jsbruner]]

(In reply to David Rankin from comment #40)
> NO NO NO NO NO -- THERE SHOULD BE NO OVERLAY ON THE FOLDER PAGE. This kind
> of garbage drives users nuts. I use a dark background and the botched
> overlay in 24 and 25 rendered my light text unreadable and there was no way
> to turn it off (without hacking css files)
> 
> This whole line of thinking is flawed. If you want something added
> cosmetically, then DO IT TO YOUR OWN thunderbird install - DO NOT SCREW MINE
> UP. I don't want your setup, I want mine.

That's has been fixed in version 28 by bug 935023. I have just requested uplift there, so your issue should be fixed in the next dot release.

Also, do *not* needinfo me just because you have an issue with a change. It interrupts workflow and is frankly just pretty rude. Bugzilla is not really the place for that kind of discussion, however I am always open to email (just be respectful about it).

Thanks,
Josiah