1163567 - Change 'Unified Folders' name back to 'Smart Folders' - or just plain 'Folder Views'

Status: RESOLVED INVALID

(Thunderbird :: General, enhancement)

Description

[Charles]

User Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:37.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/37.0
Build ID: 20150415140819

Steps to reproduce:

A very long time ago when 'Smart Folders' were first introduced, I didn't like them due to a number of frustrating limitations (hard-coded, couldn't customize them), and searched for and found the CSS to hide them permanently.

Recently I was forced to re-examine them when helping someone else who was using them in Thunderbird, and after playing around, realized that, with some tweaking, they could be really useful - especially after being forced to help someone else with an (ugh) Outlook issue...

During this time I also discovered that, as a result of bug 545217, the name for this folder system - 'Smart Folders' - had been changed to 'Unified Folders' - but, Bryan didn't elaborate at all on his comment that "A number of points of feedback have shown that the term "unified" is clearer than the term "smart" for the smart folders system".

I for one do not understand the rationale for this at all...


Actual results:

Naming them 'Unified Folders', then having one of the views named 'Unified' is confusing. Unified is absolutely the perfect name for the Unified view, but it doesn't make sense as the name for the overall system.


Expected results:

Absent convincing argument, this folder system name should be changed back to 'Smart Folders'.

I have also opened four bugs (2 are very related) dealing with this folder system after my experimenting, that would, in my opinion, cause this folder system to go from 'interesting concept/idea but needs work before it will be useful to me', to 'awesome power tool that makes Thunderbird really stand out and is one of the many reasons that I will never switch from TB to any other mail client!'...

bug 1163562 - Make Favorites show at top of Folder Pane

bug 1159713 - Allow customization of choices in View > Folders (Unified Folders)

bug 1159716 - Add my own custom 'Unified Folder' choices

bug 1163555 - Allow 'Split' view of multiple 'Unified Folders'
(this one could actually replace and be much more powerful than bug 1163562)

I personally think 'Smart Folders' was the ideal term for this folder system, and that it will/would be even more appropriate if any of my above referenced bugs/enhancements for improving it are ever implemented.

Comment 1

[Magnus Melin [:mkmelin]]

Don't have a mac to check, but I believe the term Unified is used by Apple's mail app. Assuming that's correct this should probably be wontfix.

Comment 2

[Jim Porter (:squib)]

First, "smart" isn't a particularly good descriptor, since it doesn't say anything about *how* the folders are smart. Second, I don't see anywhere in the UI where the text "Unified Folders" is shown. The closest is View -> Folders -> Unified. Could you post a screenshot showing where this text is displayed?

Comment 3

[Charles]

(In reply to Jim Porter (:squib) from comment #2)
> First, "smart" isn't a particularly good descriptor, since it doesn't say
> anything about *how* the folders are smart.

I don't see a problem with that, but ok, if you like, just call it 'Folder Views'...

> Second, I don't see anywhere in the UI where the text "Unified Folders" is shown.

It isn't, and I don't see anywhere where I said it was.

I even referred to the exact bug where the developers changed the name used to reference this 'system for selecting folder views' from 'Smart Folders' to 'Unified Folders, so apparently you didn't really read my bug report before commenting, which is a little annoying.

Read bug 545217 (referred to in this bugs opening description).

> The closest is View -> Folders -> Unified.

This is my problem. Naming the system with the same exact name as one of the available Views is not very accurate either.

If you disagree, then why not call it 'All Folders', or 'Recent Folders', or 'Favorite Folders'? Why? Because it is much more than any of those individual choices.

Comment 4

[Charles]

(In reply to Magnus Melin from comment #1)
> Don't have a mac to check, but I believe the term Unified is used by Apple's
> mail app. Assuming that's correct this should probably be wontfix.

???????????

Seriously? Thunderbird now bases all of its naming convention decisions on what Apple does with Apple Mail?

When did this happen? Where was this discussion held? Must have been in private, because I never heard anything about it.

Comment 5

[Magnus Melin [:mkmelin]]

Hardly, I'm just saying that likely affected the decision in the first place. OTOH having some kind of unique vocabulary in thunderbird is hardly useful.

Comment 6

[Charles]

(In reply to Magnus Melin from comment #5)
> Hardly, I'm just saying that likely affected the decision in the first
> place.

Ok, fair enough, but... read what you said again... it sounded exactly like the way I took it. Maybe it is because English isn't your primary language?

> OTOH having some kind of unique vocabulary in thunderbird is hardly useful.

I agree - I'm not asking for 'unique', I'm asking for more precise/meaningful.

As I said, I prefer 'Smart Folders', because unlike Jim, I do think it is very meaningful - especially if any of my enhancement requests for making it configurable/customizable are ever implemented:

Bug 1163562 - Pin Favorites to the top of the Folder Pane

Bug 1163555 - Allow 'Pinning' (and re-ordering) one or more 'Unified Folders' views to the top of the Folder Pane

Bug 1159713 - Allow customization of choices in View > Folders (Unified Folders)

But if you prefer something more generic/general, then again, just plain 'Folder Views' works too.

But again - calling it 'Unified Folders' is simply wrong, when 'Unified' is only one of many 'Views' available.

Comment 7

[Jim Porter (:squib)]

(In reply to Charles from comment #3)
> > Second, I don't see anywhere in the UI where the text "Unified Folders" is shown.
> 
> It isn't, and I don't see anywhere where I said it was.

Then where's the bug?

> I even referred to the exact bug where the developers changed the name used
> to reference this 'system for selecting folder views' from 'Smart Folders'
> to 'Unified Folders, so apparently you didn't really read my bug report
> before commenting, which is a little annoying.
> 
> Read bug 545217 (referred to in this bugs opening description).

Bug 545217 changed the name of a single folder view mode (formerly "Smart folders", now "Unified folders"), not the name of the overall concept of having multiple folder views. The "system" clarkbw refers to in the bug is the system used by that single view. As far as I know, we've never had a specific name for the overall concept, although "Folder Views" is pretty close. A quick perusal of the patch in that bug can confirm this.

In the future, I suggest you not assume that the person you're talking to is stupid or lazy just because you don't agree with them. Even if they are, it's not a great way to get what you want.

> This is my problem. Naming the system with the same exact name as one of the
> available Views is not very accurate either.

If you can show that the overall system is actually called "Unified Folders" anywhere in the application or official support documentation, I'd love to see that, since that's wrong.

Comment 8

[Kent James (:rkent)]

FWIW my Android app (K-9 mail) uses "Unified Inbox" for the equivalent view. So from my narrow sample of 1 user (me), I prefer "Unified".

Comment 9

[Charles]

(In reply to Jim Porter (:squib) from comment #7)
> If you can show that the overall system is actually called "Unified Folders"
> anywhere in the application or official support documentation, I'd love to
> see that, since that's wrong.

Ok, you are correct, and my apologies for wasting your time.

I don't know how but I got it in my head that that bug was about the 'system'...

We seem to be in agreement on 'Folder Views' for the name for the system itself.

Now I just need to convince you of the value of being able to customize what is shown in these views.

Comment 10

[Charles]

(In reply to Kent James (:rkent) from comment #8)
> FWIW my Android app (K-9 mail) uses "Unified Inbox" for the equivalent view.
> So from my narrow sample of 1 user (me), I prefer "Unified".

Yes, but that is the equivalent of the 'Unified Folders' view (now that I understand the feature vs the functionality)...

The Feature name is still known as 'Folder Views', as Jim noted.

Comment 11

[Wayne Mery (:wsmwk)]

(In reply to Charles from comment #0)
> ...
> During this time I also discovered that, as a result of bug 545217, the name
> for this folder system - 'Smart Folders' - had been changed to 'Unified
> Folders' - but, Bryan didn't elaborate at all on his comment that "A number
> of points of feedback have shown that the term "unified" is clearer than the
> term "smart" for the smart folders system".
> 
> I for one do not understand the rationale for this at all...

Adding some historical perspective...

Comment 2 is partly on point. My recollection of the decision at the time was there is nothing smart about these folders, there is no backing algorithmic intelligence, no adaptation based on context, and no flexibility to customize them (though it has been requested in bug reports).  They are nothing more than predefined, very simple virtual folders. (And unforunately also not feature complete and riddled with bugs http://mzl.la/1LrLx5d ) 

In fact, I recall that having the word "Smart" in the name invited ridicule from users based on the aformentioned items - something I believe factored into the decision for renaming them :)