1607994 - I do not want to purge messages when restoring them to InBox (confusion from compact dialog)

Status: RESOLVED DUPLICATE of bug 1678856

(MailNews Core :: Backend, defect)

Description

[theyankees]

User Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/79.0.3945.117 Safari/537.36

Steps to reproduce:

When I have some messages that have been automatically moved to the Trash folder (for example, when I first load Thunderbird or when I 'Get Messages,') that I want to move to InBox (and not delete,) I get a warning box that pops up with text similar to the following: "The messages you have deleted can be purged from disk. This operation will save about 2.7 GB of disk space. Select the option below to let Thunderbird do this automatically without asking you." But, I DO NOT WANT TO DELETE THEM! I want to restore them to InBox because I do not believe that they are junk. I am currently using Thunderbird 72.0b3 (32-bit) on my Windows 10 desktop.

Expected results:

This message should ONLY appear when I attempt to DELETE not 'Move to InBox.' I know that they CAN be purged from disk, but that info is irrelevant.

Comment 1

[Wayne Mery (:wsmwk)]

"warning box that pops up with text similar to" ___ sound like compact - having the exact text is normally very helpful - and has nothing to do with you moving (visible) messages from trash or junk. Nor does compact remove messages from trash or junk.

So if we ignore your issue with the dialog [language], is there really a problem?

Comment 2

[theyankees]

I am concerned that if I were to allow it to delete (the ONLY choices are to delete or to cancel,) it would delete the message(s) that I am trying to move. It's not just annoying - it's confusing and needn't be. Why is it asking me whether I want to delete messages that I am trying to move? A MOVE (by definition) is a COPY followed by a delete at the original location. The confusing dialog box implies that it will delete AND NOT COPY FIRST.

Comment 3

[Wayne Mery (:wsmwk)]

Yes, the dialog is confusing - and we have bug 716412 for that (unfortunately not in production). The recommended action here is to have the box checked, and click OK to allow automatic compact to happen without prompting you in the future.

So I will reemphasize that this dialog does NOT delete visible messages.

Comment 4

[Wayne Mery (:wsmwk)]

I misremembered - the button to click is "compact now", not "OK".

This is why it is important for you to post the EXACT language of what you are seeing on the screen. You are using an English language version of THunderbird?

Comment 5

[theyankees]

Yes, I am using an English version of Thunderbird, 72.0b3 (32-bit even though I am using 64-bit Windows 10.) Thanks for your help, Wayne!

Comment 6

[Wayne Mery (:wsmwk)]

Yes, I am using an English version of Thunderbird, 72.0b3 (32-bit even though I am using 64-bit Windows 10.) Thanks for your help, Wayne!

Ah, in that case, you are seeing the NEW dialog created by bug 716412.

And your bug report implies there is unfortunately still room for confusion

Comment 7

[theyankees]

I will attach screen capture to this thread the next time I see that dialog box.

Comment 8

[Alessandro Castellani [:aleca]]

What's the confusion here?
Is a matter of language, or the fact that the dialog popped at an unfortunate time?

Comment 9

[theyankees]

I appreciate the offer to Compact, but the words 'delete' and 'purged from disk' are a little frightening in this context. They make me wonder if the messages that I am moving are the ones that will be 'deleted' and 'purged from disk.' Perhaps it's language AND unfortunate time then! :D

Thanks Alessandro and Wayne for getting back to me!

Comment 10

[Alessandro Castellani [:aleca]]

For the timing there's nothing we can do, but for the wording we can improve it.
So, the current messages says:
"The messages you have deleted can be purged from disk. This operation will save about %1$S of disk space. Select the option below to let %2$S do this automatically without asking you."

What is the actual purpose of the triggered method?
It meas the messages that are in "Trash" will be completely erased?
Maybe we need a bit more clarity here.

Comment 11

[Wayne Mery (:wsmwk)]

716412(In reply to Alessandro Castellani (:aleca) from comment #10)

...
So, the current messages says:
"The messages you have deleted can be purged from disk. This operation will save about %1$S of disk space. Select the option below to let %2$S do this automatically without asking you."

It meas the messages that are in "Trash" will be completely erased?

No. In fact the function is not trash-specific. (see below)

What is the actual purpose of the triggered method?

The what is ... compact physically removes from disk messages that have already been deleted from ALL folders. Why we must do this is related to the fact that, for performance reasons, when a user deletes a message THunderbird doesn't by default remove a message from a user's disk (but there is a pref to force immediate removal) So compact has the result of: freeing disk space, marginally improving privacy by physically removing messages, marginally improving performance. (so for example the only messages that get removed from trash are ones that have been explicitly deleted from Trash by the user, or removed by retention policy or filters).

Maybe we need a bit more clarity here.

We get into trouble with users is telling them too much, too little, or throwing technobabble at them. Bug 716412 was supposed to resolve that, plus give better wording to help our German friends in bug 1543430.

We also get into trouble by telling them anything at all. This dialog isn't required for compact to happen, and is really just a legacy courtesy, and so it's ridiculous that we still prompt users for something that should be automatic behind the scenes. So ideally we would have years ago done bug 469050, Bug 286888 - Always make compacting folders automatic, with no UI, and Bug 439089 - Better Faster IMAP: Auto compact on idle time with better threshold.

Comment 12

[Matt]

I just long for the day we do not have Mbox files, then it will all be moot. There is the benefit of knowing the user compacted when they turn up in support asking why all their mail disappeared. Not because of issues with compact, but issues with detecting missing Mbox files so we never update the MSF until the compact with the result of apparent data loss.

The usual cause is aggressive anti-virus scanning and the "quarantine" of the entire mbox because new definitions have appeared. More frequent compaction reduces the risk as most malware is deleted at the time it arrives, so new definitions months down the track to not throw up a hit..

Comment 13

[Anje]

Some clarity please on this message and what is triggering it.

I'm getting irate people in support Forum who say they have a pop up that when you select 'Cancel' just reappears again and again. How to stop the pop up and not have auto delete of the emails.
Users explains the pop up as:
"the messages you have deleted can be purged from disk. Select the option to let TB do this automatically"; then a check box and 2 selections, "proceed" & "cancel". "
" latest upgrade was installed I am getting an annoying popup asking if I want to purge the deleted messages. There is a checkbox to do this automatically without asking."

However, if you say 'proceed' and allow to do automatically, emails in the 'Trash' folder are being deleted.

There seems to be some confusion on what is going on.
This is not asking about compacting folders to remove hidden marked as deleted emails. So I'm assuming it has nothing to do with the Options/Preferences > General > 'Network & Disc Space' 'compact all folders when it will save over XX mb' threshold.
Users say they compact frequently.

This has to be something else.

If you click on 'Proceed' then you will have all the emails in the 'Trash' deleted.
This is not necessarilly convenient.
People do not want this, but how can they stop the pop up ?
There is no option to say 'No, do not proceed and Do not ask again'

Please advise on what needs to be switched off in the config editor and then I can pass this information to Support Forum.

Comment 14

[Matt]

Anje, Just be sure that the trash folder is actually set to synchronise if it is IMAP. The default, like for the Junk is for it to synchronise only when selected for IMAP. The result can be an apparent deleting of mails via synchronisation when the folder is selected. It is human nature to "blame" the last unexplained even for the next thing you do not understand or create causal links between things that actually have no link.

Given the message mentions deleted messages the next stop after the message is the deleted folder to see what the effect has been. Synchronization makes everything that exceeded the provider retention threshold deleted and in the mind of the user linked to the compact process. Very few appear to actually understand synchronisation and even fewer understand the server is in most things treated as the canonical source.

This is also about compaction and the setting in options should affect it. I am sure I was subscribed to a bug that affected the change to the auto compact dailog. I think Bug 71641 was the originator of the current text. The patch V1.2 certainly contains the text you mention.

Bug 1157256 certainly increased the visibility of compact to IMAP users as it had been broken prior to that (V52).

Fundamentally I am still in favour of saying nothing and doing the housekeeping. Perhaps on shut down rather than when the user is actively using the program. But if for no other reason the user has an expectation that when they delete stuff it is deleted. Without compact is is not deleted, simply hidden.

Comment 15

[Anje]

The problem is that people are scared on what that pop up message means because users do not use the word purge, they have been accustomed to the word compact. The message implies the Trash is going to be emptied and one person has stated that everytime they click 'proceed' they lose emails in the Trash folder. There are plenty of Support Forum requests regarding this which causes people concern.

I did report this as a separate bug 1678856 asking to get the phrasing altered so it matches the terminology used in Options/Preferences and also the same as just about every Help comment and Article on the subject of compacting.

Comment 16

[Wayne Mery (:wsmwk)]

I think this should be covered in bug 1678856