Closed Bug 1678856 Opened 4 years ago Closed 3 years ago

Improve wording of compact dialog pop up "The messages you have deleted can be purged from disk....."

Categories

(MailNews Core :: Backend, enhancement, P2)

Product:
MailNews Core
Component:
Backend
Platform:
Unspecified
All
Type:
enhancement

Tracking

(thunderbird_esr78 wontfix, thunderbird91+ fixed)

Status:
VERIFIED FIXED
Milestone:
91 Branch
Tracking Flags:
Tracking Status
thunderbird_esr78 --- wontfix
thunderbird91 + fixed

People

(Reporter: anjeyelf, Assigned: aleca)

References

(
URL
)

Details

(Keywords: ux-control, ux-jargon, Whiteboard: [l10n impact])

Attachments

(6 files)

compact folders TB 90_0_b2.jpg
17.08 KB, image/jpeg
Details
Mockup 1: New Compact Folders dialog proposal
15.42 KB, image/png
wsmwk
: feedback+
aleca
: feedback+
Details
Bug 1678856 - Improve the wording of the compact folders dialog. r=darktrojan
48 bytes, text/x-phabricator-request
Details | Review
Screenshot from 2021-07-06 10-19-00.png
73.56 KB, image/png
Details
Screenshot 2: The new compact prompt on Windows, as implemented by this bug
10.84 KB, image/png
Details
Screenshot 3: Preference `mail.purge.ask` now exposed in `Preferences > General > Disk Space`
37.89 KB, image/png
Details

There are complaints and worried people in Support Forum regarding the pop up message that says "The messages you have deleted can be purged from disk. Select the option to let TB do this automatically"; with a check box.
followed by two button: "proceed" & "cancel".

The wording of 'purge' is causing concern that it has nothing to do with 'compact' which users understand and it is the wording used in the Options/Preferences and also in all the help Articles and user Question threads, Thunderbird Support Forum and http://kb.mozillazine.org and other places you can find via Google.
'Purge' might be a word familiar amongst developers, but it is not a term used by the general populous of Thunderbird users.

The users say:
The popup message is misleading. It should say something like "Your Inbox can be compacted, which will free up XX MBytes of disk space. Compact now?"
Then it is understood what that message actually means and it also matches the option selected in the Options Disk Space section.
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1308222

One person says "I compact all the time...... If I select 'proceed' my trash is permanently lost." They do not want their 'Trash' folder emptied.
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1312686

The "The messages you have deleted can be purged from disk" may mean the 'marked as deleted' and 'hidden' emails, but it seems to also mean the deleted messages currently in the 'Trash/Deleted' folder. This is clearly causing real confusion and with unexpected results.

quotes from concerned people:
"I read 'Deleted Messages' as my deleted messages folders and the wording worried me."
"I have the same problem with this window that appears: "the messages that you have deleted ....". It is not very precise: is it the messages in the trash that will be deleted?"

"On Thunderbird I keep seeing a message that asks me to purge deleted messages. Does this mean that if I check this I will lose all messages in Trash, which I do not want to do. If yes how can I stop the purging message?"
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1317606

"'How do I stop Thunderbird from proposing to purge trash automatically every time I delete an email"
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1317607

As you can see from these comments, people do not assume this has anything to do with compacting. They often have little or no knowledge about the need to compact files to tidy them up, and even those who do and who compact on a regular basis, still get that message and are confused. They see the pop up as a message to purge/empty their Trash folder which they do not want.

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1319292
"Message asking if I want to delete emails in Deleted folder"

"The first time I delete an email in a session I get the message shown in the attached image asking if I want to purge deleted emails. I have set a 30 day retention policy for my Deleted folder so I don't want or need to do this and there seems to be no way to suppress this annoying message. It has only been happening recently so must have been introduced in an update. "

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1317882
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1319678

Yet more confused users.

I was about to enter this as a bug -- glad that others have reported it too...

My main concern is the word "deleted". For me, the pop-up usually occurs after I've MOVE'd something, which triggers the popup when appropriate. But... Although MOVE is actually a COPY / DELETE operation, I do not deliberately or explicitly "delete" anything. So not only am I worried about "purging", I'm concerned that the MOVE might have been a deletion and maybe I'll lose something.

Simply because of the wording used, I juat flat-out DO NOT TRUST the operation and refuse to bide by the popup! Please revert to something like the previous text, which simply prompted "Compact now?"

Actually I did report this bug a couple of months ago -- see my Bug #1677751.

(I'll let you guys decide who dups who. My original description is perhaps a little better, but there is more general support in THIS report.)

Flags: needinfo?(anjeyelf)

(In reply to Dan Pernokis from comment #4)

My main concern is the word "deleted". For me, the pop-up usually occurs after I've MOVE'd something, which triggers the popup when appropriate. But... Although MOVE is actually a COPY / DELETE operation, I do not deliberately or explicitly "delete" anything. So not only am I worried about "purging", I'm concerned that the MOVE might have been a deletion and maybe I'll lose something.

When you 'Move' or 'Delete' an email from a folder eg: Inbox, that email gets 'Copied' to whatever folder you 'Moved' it into or if 'deleted' then it usually gets copied into the 'Trash'.
The original copy is still in the 'Inbox', but as the user no longer wants that email in that folder, the email has been 'marked as deleted' and 'hidden'. So the compact / purge from disk is refering to completely removing/deleting those original copies that are hidden and 'marked as deleted'.

I have spent so many hours of my time explaining what is going on when people get this pop up. If I was charging my time then it would be fast approaching a four figure number. There are many more instances in the Support Forum than mentioned and some of those questions have several people posting comments. This is not just a couple of people and not everyone gets loads of emails, so many people will not see this pop up in the first fews weeks. It will continue to cause confusion and concern.

The downside is that people are simply not compacting and this may lead to corrupted files in the long run, placing more questions of loss of email/recovery on the Helpers in the Support Forum. The impact of changing the wording in this instance is not just causing confusion and concern, it not just takes up so much of Support Helpers time when it is unnecessary; it may utimately cause loss of data.

This is an easy fix. Please do not ignore this request.

The wording needs to say something more on the lines:
'The threshold setting has been reached and folders need to be compacted. Please press 'Proceed' to compact folders now. Please do not exit Thunderbird and refrain from using folders until compacting has completed. Press 'Cancel' to not compact at this moment.

Flags: needinfo?(anjeyelf)

I agree 100%, Anje -- I'm just not a developer who can correct the problem.

First time I saw the message I flipped out and thought the program had messed up and deleted something that (by MOVE-ing), I explicitly intended to keep. Of course the wording is logically correct, given that a MOVE is the combination of COPY + DELETE (as I too mentioned) -- but Average User doesn't know that.

The wording should not have been changed in the first place without good reason, and the new wording should have been vetted to avoid exactly the situation we now find ourselves in. Fixing this issue needs to be a higher priority, given the confusion and squandering of support resources that it is causing (not to mention lack of confidence in the product overall).

But the wording needs to be bare-bones simple: "Compacting of folders is required. Compact now? Y/N" (or two buttons, "Compact Now" and "Later", instead of "Y/N"). That gets the point across without confusion, without excess explanations that Average User likely won't understand anyway, and in a manner that is straightforward and do-able. Pop it up EVERY time once the threshold is reached and it will get done eventually.

(Or maybe we should just force the issue and compact automatically if the threshold is, say, doubled -- but that opens another can of worms...)

BTW, given that email is a common way to distribute photos (either by attachment or by embedding), and given that typical photos today are MBs rather than KBs, then perhaps the default threshold needs to be raised. Doesn't take many moved or deleted photo messages to exceed the limit. I think the main deterrent to compacting is that it happens too frequently these days and takes too long (too many messages kept long-term in INBOX).

Depends on: 716412

(In reply to Dan Pernokis from comment #7)

...
But the wording needs to be bare-bones simple: "Compacting of folders is required. Compact now? Y/N" (or two buttons, "Compact Now" and "Later", instead of "Y/N"). That gets the point across without confusion, without excess explanations that Average User likely won't understand anyway, and in a manner that is straightforward and do-able. Pop it up EVERY time once the threshold is reached and it will get done eventually.

Long explanations will not get approved. So yes, Short is better.

(Or maybe we should just force the issue and compact automatically if the threshold is, say, doubled -- but that opens another can of worms...)

Bug 286888 is frankly a no brainer. We should just do it.

BTW, given that email is a common way to distribute photos (either by attachment or by embedding), and given that typical photos today are MBs rather than KBs, then perhaps the default threshold needs to be raised. Doesn't take many moved or deleted photo messages to exceed the limit. I think the main deterrent to compacting is that it happens too frequently these days and takes too long (too many messages kept long-term in INBOX).

Please file a new bug for this. You can model on the last increase which was done in Bug 1462666 - increase default autocompact threshold "mail.purge_threshhold" (Maybe bump to 1gb?)

I have spent so many hours of my time explaining what is going on when people get this pop up. If I was charging my time then it would be fast approaching a four figure number. There are many more instances in the Support Forum than mentioned and some of those questions have several people posting comments. This is not just a couple of people and not everyone gets loads of emails, so many people will not see this pop up in the first fews weeks. It will continue to cause confusion and concern.

You don't need to do that/you shouldn't do that - it's not a good use of your time. Just improve the KB article and point users to it.

Keywords: ux-control
See Also: → 286888
Summary: POP UP message "The messages you have deleted can be purged from disk....." → Compact dialog pop up "The messages you have deleted can be purged from disk....."

(In reply to Wayne Mery (:wsmwk) from comment #10)

(In reply to Dan Pernokis from comment #7)

...
(Or maybe we should just force the issue and compact automatically if the threshold is, say, doubled -- but that opens another can of worms...)

Bug 286888 is frankly a no brainer. We should just do it.

BTW, many of the dupes of Bug 286888 (14 to date) state the confusion generated by this dialog as a reason for making it automatic.

Component: Preferences → Backend
OS: Unspecified → All
Product: Thunderbird → MailNews Core
Summary: Compact dialog pop up "The messages you have deleted can be purged from disk....." → Improve wording of compact dialog pop up "The messages you have deleted can be purged from disk....."
Version: 78 → 70

I still say there is not much wrong with the original wording, simply saying that "compacting" is required (not "purging", which is scary because it implies elimination of messages).

I don't object to going automatic either, but I have a few concerns.

(1) The process MUST be interruptible in its entirety -- "I'm quitting Thunderbird", so compacting should quit now as TB exits. Or "I'm shutting down right now", so compacting must stop. Likewise if a system operation requires a reboot or forces a restart.

(2) The process must be interruptible step-by-step -- "I'm moving files to or from a folder being compacted and I don't want to wait", or "I'm viewing/reading/printing files so they better not disappear as they do now".

(3) I'd like AUTOMATIC COMPACT to be an option -- with the default set to YES DO IT AUTOMATICALLY, but changeable by the user.

(4) There should be a time to do it (overnight, weekly, threshold size, or some other reasonable options) so it isn't running on whim nor at an inconvenient time (although "anytime" is reasonable in some circumstances).

(5) The process should be available on demand -- "I'm about to make an archive (rare, I know) and I want the files to be as small as possible".

I have faith in the programmers, but we all know this is going to be tricky to catch all the exceptions to get this right. Failing at the wrong time could lose an entire mailbox.

(In reply to Dan Pernokis from comment #12)

I still say there is not much wrong with the original wording, simply saying that "compacting" is required (not "purging", which is scary because it implies elimination of messages).

How about "processing"? Or "performing maintenance"? It doesn't really matter, as long as the user knows "something" is happening that might be helpful.

(In reply to Worcester12345 from comment #13)

Actually, the wording DOES matter. "Compacting" is fairly clear as to what is happening, and most users can grasp why it should be done -- some just don't want to be patient. "Compressing" might sound similar but may not be true and could be misunderstood. "Processing" is too generic, applicable to almost anything that happens (fetching, reading, sending, printing, etc.) And anything scary will, um, scare people into not doing the compacting.

Dan, you are overthinking this. Most people have no idea, and don't want to. Just tell them something is happening, or maybe better, don't even bother, and just do it.

I'm not sure what's happening with this (is there any rough timeline??), but as others have noted, this is causing serious confusion among users, and has the very real potential to increase the risk of causing corruption, due to users refusing to perform a 'mysterious' and 'dangerous-sounding' operation to "purge" their "deleted" items from "disk".

I must say, that this is not only for the general public. I myself am wary of this, and I do have reasonable computer programming knowledge — I have contributed code for application development before (unrelated to TB), although I would never claim to be a "software programmer" per se. Sure, I can understand the (purportedly) intended meaning after it's explained on the forums (e.g. https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1308222 ). But without that, I would say the meaning was ambiguous at best.

Another point that made me very worried was that the compaction size jumped up suddenly.
Come to think of it, I don't think I received the old (or new) "compaction" message for quite some time.
I used to regularly see it every week or two, and the size of disk space to be saved was typically in the range of 20 to 30 MB, because I had specified "Compact all folders when it will save over 20 MB in total" in the general Options.
The recent/new message I got was:
"[Compact Folders]
The messages you have deleted can be purged from disk. This operation will save about 235 MB of disk space. Select the option below to let Thunderbird do this automatically without asking you.
[tickbox] Remove message deletions automatically and do not ask me.
[Proceed] [Cancel]"
Emphasis added. The problematic words are in italic. More on that later. But the big concern I mentioned was that suddenly the amount of space that could be saved had jumped to ten times larger than what I was used to. Naturally this gave the impression that rather than (only) compacting folders, a much more extensive set of "purge" actions would be activated if I assented!

I have just now reviewed my settings in the general Options, and now they say "Compact all folders when it will save over 200 MB in total". I cannot at all remember changing this, and I therefore ask the question — during one of the recent updates, perhaps connected to the present bug, was a related new bug introduced whereby user's extant settings regarding the compaction threshold were ignored and overwritten with a universal default of 200 MB??
This is a query, because I have no way to go back in time and check whether I changed the setting despite having no recollection of it, but I wonder whether it's happened to anyone else? I imagine this is something that could be checked. Sorry if I should report it on another thread, but it seems strongly related to me.

My system: TB 78.7.1 (32 bit) running on Windows 8.1 (64 bit), on the "release" update channel.

OK, back to the wording of the message. There were two more words that I have highlighted above that were not emphasised by other correspondents:
"from disk" makes it sound like messages will be wiped forever, and this is mainly problematic because users don't ordinarily think (at first) of the messages being on disk, but rather in folders; can this be changed to something to do with folders?
"*automatically" does not make it clear that the action will be only taken after a threshold is reached; therefore I suggest either replacing this with "regularly without asking me" or "automatically when the specified threshold is reached (do not ask me)"

Rather than overcomplicating the discussion, I would also be happy to just go back to the old wording that (almost?) everybody seemed to be happy with.

I have just had a look at a separate system where I have TB installed, which is Windows 10 (64 bit).

Old version of TB:
Version = 78.7.1 x64
Threshold for compacting folders = 20 MB
Disk space used by "cache" (reported in options) = 71.4 MB

New version of TB:
Version = 78.8.0 x64
Threshold for compacting folders = 20 MB
Disk space used by "cache" (reported in options) = 49.2 MB

So it may be that the threshold was inadvertently changed manually on the first system, described in my previous post — and by chance this coincided with the changes reported for the present bug.
Although I do not know why the "cache" became quite a bit smaller after performing the TB version update.

cache has nothing to do with compact

When you use the words like 'purge deleted emails', many general users believe this means 'get rid of all items I have deleted', so basically empty my trash because that is where all my deleted emails are located. They have no concept about 'hidden marked as deleted' emails still lurking in original files. So they choose 'Cancel' and end up with repeated requests because a threshold for compacting has been reached. Many have no idea that there is a threshold or where the settings are located. Those who do know about compacting, still are confused by the message as it does not mention 'compacting'.
Auto compacting in the background might seem a neat idea, but there are times when you need to rescue 'marked as deletd' emails and the only way is via altering the X-Mozilla-Status. This method of recovery would be removed if compacting was a frequent occurance done in the background.
There are times when the eg: Trash has been emptied and a sudden need to recover an email, my first advice is do not compact any folder until checks have been performed to see if recovery is possible via 'X-Mozilla-Status'.

This compacting action needs to be the user choice. I compact at the end of each day prior to exiting Thunderbird and that time will vary, so auto compaction is not something that I want to automatic.

Use words like : 'Thunderbird maintenance' perhaps as a heading and say 'The threshold for compacting folders as been reached as per settings in Options/Preferences > General, under 'Network & Disk Space'. Please do not exit Thunderbird whilst compacting is performed.'
'Compact now' 'Cancel'

Then people are informed that it is a basic maintenance - so normal action and that compacting needs to occur - many are familiar with that term and there is Help Article explaining compacting if required and why it needs to occur - threshold attained and where that threshold is set, so they can modify if desired. This is simple and informative. No mention of 'purge deleted emails' as this is scary and unnecessary. Users do not need to be told it saves disc space - as many think 'well I've got tons of space so it is not required'.

What is the objective ? Help to keep thunderbird healthy by performing basic compacting maintenance on folders to keep them tidy and therefore less prone to becoming corrupt and in the process reducing file size, which would save disk space as a nice bonus. Inform user and allow choice to compact and make user aware that they must not exit thunderbird during the process.
But the user only needs to told it is basic maintenance, a threshold has been reached so compacting needs to occur.
Keep it simple.

This doesn't need to be complicated for the user. Keep the messaging & warnings short and very simple.

First of all, three choices -- COMPACT NOW, CANCEL, and HELP (which explains a few details, including how to increase the threshold). Saying the user has "exceeded the threshold" is just as scary for some as "purging" -- oh my, I've sailed off the edge of the world! -- and causes paranoia regarding saving of old messages (and keeping any files & photos for that matter, even though totally unrelated).

Just say that compacting is required, with the choices. If the threshold level has been doubly exceeded, then we could look at a more drastic message explaining the threshold and indicating it is important to compact right now. If the warning messages come up at least every day and every time TB is started, they will eventually do it just to make the warnings stop. Or we could at this point force an automatic compact before allowing the user to do anything -- with a warning that it is in progress and an intermittent option to abandon.

If users trigger the compact, they would know it is running and probably act accordingly. TB could warn not to interrupt, and it should lock out attempts to get mail or send (I think it does this now, or at least warns that compact is running). On the other hand, if compact was run automatically and silently, the user doesn't know and could cause all kinds of damage. See my Comment #12 above regarding concerns -- plus the process MUST be interruptible if a device is going to sleep (or about to shut down because of a dying battery).

If it was a continuous background task and not a sudden time-consuming process, it would be much easier all around. There are two ways to compact a file:
(1) You can copy the good stuff to a new file and then either copy back or swap names. This takes time (the larger, the longer) and can cause data loss if the process is interrupted at certain critical points.
(2) You can continually copy the next good piece in place over deleted pieces, with appropriate pointer updates. This process is relatively much safer and, on a continuously maintained system, takes a lot less time. (I'm not advocating an immediate continuous compact every time a file is deleted. Deleting the oldest files leaves holes at the top of the file and would cause non-stop back-filling of the remaining messages as they move up. Just allow some time before starting...)

But still, leave a manual COMPACT NOW option available -- per file and per system, as now -- in case the user wants to archive their files right then, or simply wants to make sure it is done.

If it was a continuous background task and not a sudden time-consuming process, it would be much easier all around.

Compacting removes previously deleted data and there are occasions when you do not want compacting to occur. There needs to be at least a month time delay if this is an automatic process. People do delete in error. People do empty the trash and then need to find an email deleted in error. If the folder that held the original email has not been compacted, I can advise on how to recover it and I have done so on many occasions.
Compacting is something that helps to maintain files, but it also removes the ability to recover emails. It is important to compact but not vital to do it immediately. I compact when I know I do not need to recover anything.
Hence why I like Automatic compaction to be an option - which it is at the moment and it should stay that way.
It is important to know that compacting is being performed as it may impact in a way that some users would find frustrating if they did not have control or knowledge about it being performed with options to cancel/delay etc.

This this is going a bit off topic.....this bug is for discussing the pop up text specifically and not potential processes for compacting.

I feel there has been a good amount of input of ideas to come to some form of resolution on the wording of the text in the pop up.

What is needed, is this bug to be assigned and acknowledged as requiring an improvement with intent to get the task done, so it can be incorporated in the forthcoming upgrades.

I fully agree, Anje -- now and as I stated to you previously.

Simple wording, as it used to be. Get rid of the scary "purge" stuff in the next release and immediately revert to the original message if nothing else. Then get a consensus on improvements to the wording (if any). Add a HELP button if any detail needs to be explained. Finally, and in a dedicated bug, let's discuss pros & cons of automated compact. Yes -- assign it, please, and get it done.

But while we're here...
The user should always have the current choices to run compact on demand (ie- "right now, when I click it"). I'm actually on the fence regarding automation, but having it automated should definitely be a user option. Automation should not be just Y/N but a length of time too. If compact happened on the first of the month, say, the user wouldn't always have a full so-many days since deletion to recover. Let the user say 30 days or whatever, and zero could signify immediately (ie- today or tomorrow some system-convenient time or user-defined time). Automation has advantages, but as I've warned a few times here, there are a lot of dangers too. (And of course a user who set "30 days" as their option will always call Anje on the 31st day to try and recover something that got flushed the night before. :)

I would also be happy to just go back to the old wording that (almost?) everybody seemed to be happy with.

The old wording https://bug716412.bmoattachments.org/attachment.cgi?id=668889 may have been simpler but it too had it's problems - users didn't understand "compact", and one language used the localization "compress".

Yes, we here in techno world probably all know what "compact" (and compress) means. But most users REALLY don't. That is partly what bug 716412 attempted to fix. And it took 4 months, so it's not necessarily dead simple to make what should be a simple improvement.

The wording must help the user trust that that they can click "proceed". Unfortunately, it's hard to convey trust here when :
a) the dialog popups up in perfectly ordinary circumstances - on startup, message deletion, message move, etc
b) users assume a pop up in software means there's an error, or they have done something wrong - imagine yourself a new user, know nothing about computers and email, and this pops up after you delete a message => reaction: "What did I just do?" (which goes to my argument for automating this dialog from the dinosaur age - 90% of the user population simply don't need it, don't care or are confused)
c) there is sometimes an incorrect value listed for disk savings (trust?)

Maybe a simpler starting approach is list the words we don't want in the dialog.

Also

URL: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/...
Keywords: ux-jargon
Priority: -- → P2

This is another example of what happens with this terminology. The user was familiar with compacting, but they have no idea what purging is about. They are also apparently not aware that a move causes a deletion in the loosing folder, a not uncommon situation. The term is after all move, not copy and delete. Having deleted emails remaining from a move is actually counter-intuitive. Since the auto compaction bug in IMAP was fixed in V60 this issue is just confusing a whole new group of Thunderbird users.

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1333368

(In reply to Matt from comment #28)

Exactly the point I made 'way back in my Comment #4 above. There has been plenty of time since then -- and several releases of TB -- to have restored the original message while we debate what should happen. (The original wording is not perfect, but IMO it's a lot better than the new phrasing.)

Compact is marginally better than purge. But no, we shouldn't be using compact either. No jargon.

At least most people understand what compact means, even if they don't know exactly what it does. And it does have longevity in TB.

A simple word like "clean" can also be jargon. What does it mean to "clean" or "clean out" or "clean up" files? Sounds like a "flush", possibly of something old/obsolete but not necessarily something I want to be rid of. In other words, I wouldn't trust either word no matter how it was phrased.

Anything with additional choices, buttons, options, functionality, etc, would require testing and release protocols. Correct me if I'm wrong, but reverting to the original wording should be just a simple text edit with minimal effort to piggyback on the next release. I propose we do this ASAP to resolve the confusion from the new wording. Then we can take our time to hash out proper wording to suit whatever it is we decide the compaction procedure should be.

It cannot be changed in version 78 because of localization. So as I said earlier, there is no rush.

How about "The Thunderbird program is performing internal self-maintenance." or something like that. I think you're better off not saying anything and just do it, as long as no negative consequences if they close out.

Well, those words work if the process starts automatically -- but right now, that's not the case. The user has to approve the operation, and the key is for them to be comfortable saying yes. I like that working, so maybe a prompt like "Perform internal self-maintenance? YES/NO" would be your suggestion. And then, definitely there should be a persistent popup (and not a transient status line or window) to say your phrase when the process is running.

I actually am not opposed to automating the compacting process, as long as there are, as you said, no negative consequences. (I listed some specific concerns in Comment 12.) And, does the process stop a person from using TB at the time? ("I want to write an email or download new messages RIGHT NOW!") That's part of the reason compacting is not done regularly -- takes too long and leaves the program somewhat unusable for the time. But I would expect the automation to work incrementally over time (so as to not suddenly take a block of time, but also to not degrade other windows) AND for it to be totally interruptible at a moment's notice. If it's not incremental, then there would need to be a manual method to trigger compacting -- in preparation for archiving, for example.

I will try my suggestion.
"The message storage database maintenance service needs to run to maintain the efficiency of the message store. This process may impact performance for a few minutes."

Then provide a Defer Configure and an Ok button.
Configure opens the appropriate options.... might a UI challenge with the searchable options, but it needs to be directed to the correct settings. If we have not worked out how to do that yet, then it is time to work it out.

And if I quit TB while this maintenance is running ??

(In reply to Dan Pernokis from comment #36)

And if I quit TB while this maintenance is running ??

The same thing that happens now.... you end up with nstmp folders if the OS quits, or the process completes in the background without a UI as occurs now. I am not proposing anything more than a change to the terminology in the dialog and calling the user approved process a service instead of a process.

(In reply to Dan Pernokis from comment #36)

And if I quit TB while this maintenance is running ??

This bug is specfically only addressing the wording in the pop up and not the compacting process itself.

Sorry, Anje -- It's just that the two go hand-in-hand -- too easy to think about how the wording may affect the process when it is developed (and vice-versa) and to think how a user might actually react to the text. I'm advocating (as you are) that the current bad wording get replaced as soon as possible, ie - "yesterday" -- but other thoughts keep coming.

And Matt -- After re-reading your Comment 35, I see now that there is no procedural change. My concern came from this: With original, current, or your proposed wording, the user approves the compact/clean-up run and must remember it is running. It's just that the on-going progress displays and the completion message are so fleeting. The automatic Get-Messages still run and their displays on the status bar overwrite any messages from the compact. The completion message should be in a persistent popup so the user knows the process is over. Otherwise (and presuming no type of crash) it could be a guess if the user wants to quit TB for any reason.

My point was that if this can start and stop automatically, with no user involvement and no ill consequences; why not just eliminate the dialog completely, and have one less thing for the user to act on or do, since nobody understands it anyhow, and not cancelling it would be an overall gain?

Compacting could also run "continuously" -- when DELETE or MOVE creates a hole, slowly back-fill it over time. There would be no need to ask permission, the maintenance would just run as & when it needed to. There would be no sudden drop in system performance, no need to involve the user, etc. Files would always be more or less in their most compacted state, ready for archiving, with no need for the user to manually trigger a compact (although it would be nice to run a full compact to completion right now, in case some major deletions just happened).

Best of all, TB would be fully functional all the time, as the process would know to work around the user. GetMessages (aka GetMail) -- manual or internally auto-timed -- would be able to work without lockup or popup warnings. Browsing mailboxes, opening/viewing messages, and moving/deleting stuff -- all would cause no harm and require no waiting.

Finally, closing TB -- however it happens -- would know to halt the process (not sure what happens now), while shutting down the OS usually asks/tells the apps to close off. Only a catastrophic TB or OS crash might be fatal -- which is also no different than we have now.

Let's not derail the conversion: there are reasons why it's not automatic - see bug 286888.

As a user, I was fine with the compact wording. I reasoned that it was just cleaning up it's disk space and/or indices and such.
It was the "purge" that concerned me. It sounded like it was going to empty my Deleted folder. I did not want to do that quite yet without taking a second visual scan.
I like this being under user control. I know when I don't care about the background task and that I will have TB up long enough for it to finish.

And BTW: I really do like TB. It is not perfect, but it is way better than any of the other email tools I have tried.
I wish it worked better on the MAC. My wife tried it for a while but it was too buggy. But that is a different thread...

(In reply to Dan Pernokis from comment #7)

I agree 100%, Anje -- I'm just not a developer who can correct the problem.

First time I saw the message I flipped out and thought the program had messed up and deleted something that (by MOVE-ing), I explicitly intended to keep. Of course the wording is logically correct, given that a MOVE is the combination of COPY + DELETE (as I too mentioned) -- but Average User doesn't know that.

Please note, that a MOVE is not necessarily a COPY and a DELETE.
It depends on implementation.
E. g. when you move a file within a file system, simply directory entries are modified, but the file itself remains untouched.
So how should a user know, how moving an email into another subfolder is implemented?

A MOVE from here to there -- especially between folders -- is almost always a COPY + DELETE scenario of some kind, even if the original source is untouched, as you suggest.

But your point is well taken -- how CAN a user know? And why should the user care anyway? The process should be worry-free to the user. The system should always do the right thing and should not bully users into steps they don't understand nor confuse the user to the point of fear and refusal to act. That's why simple (not inaccurate nor mind-boggling) phrasing is required.

One more point:
There already has been lots of discussion of making compact folders fully automatic without asking the user. I did not have time to read all of it. There may be good reason not to make it fully automatic.

However, there seems to be some risk, e.g. what if user selects File->Quit while compacting?
So if there are risks and if Thunderbird can't decide automatically, then the user needs to know, which are the risks he is taking, to make a solid decision.

On the other side: If user checks the "don't ask again" checkbox, when the message occurs the very first time, compacting is fully automatic from then on. Seems quite contradictory.

(In reply to Dan Pernokis from comment #39)

... It's just that the on-going progress displays and the completion message are so fleeting. The automatic Get-Messages still run and their displays on the status bar overwrite any messages from the compact. The completion message should be in a persistent popup so the user knows the process is over. Otherwise (and presuming no type of crash) it could be a guess if the user wants to quit TB for any reason.

This change isn't going to happen here. And to be honest is unlikely to ever happen. For one thing, we don't want anything to force or imply the user cannot continue with their work. Secondly, and to dispel concerns about dataloss, shutting down Thunderbird during compact does not result in problems nor dataloss. And as far as I know we don't have any such bug reports.

It has been pointed out that the process surrounding compact may not be perfect process and there may be contradictions - this bug isn't about those issues, and so won't attempt to address them - you can learn about most of them by finding and reading other bug reports, it will be time well spent.

Now, let's now solve wording of the dialog. Be aware that if any comments goes off-topic the bug will be changed to restrict comments, which will reduce participation. Thank you for your cooperation.

We got the current wording from Bug 716412 - compact dialog prompt: unchecking "Always ask me before compacting folders automatically" fails to change or keep mail.purge.ask preference to false. Please read that bug if you plan to comment here.

The current wording is
The messages you have deleted can be purged from disk. This operation will save about XXX MB of disk space. Select the option below to let Thunderbird do this automatically without asking you.
<Checkbox>: Remove message deletions automatically and do not ask me“

It is proposed to not use the word "purge", perhaps use terminology that suggests "maintenance", perhaps mention that trash folder will not be touched, etc. Here is one idea, which shamelessly borrows and stitches in wording from others

Thunderbird needs to do some cleaning, which will save about XXXX MB of disk space. This normal maintenance does not remove messages from Trash or other folders. If you check the box below before you proceed, Thunderbird will do this automatically in the future and not bother you again.

I know some suggestions have included the word "deletions" - I suggest we don't.

It would also be nice if we could point users to https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/compacting-folders

(In reply to Wayne Mery (:wsmwk) from comment #49)

We got the current wording from Bug 716412 - compact dialog prompt: unchecking "Always ask me before compacting folders automatically" fails to change or keep mail.purge.ask preference to false. Please read that bug if you plan to comment here.

Please also read bug reports which have been marked as duplicates.

Also note, the new wording must be terse. In other words not much longer than the current wording, and the suggestion in comment 49, which are both only three, relatively short sentences.

See Also: → 1462666

Wayne, I like this wording in your Comment #50:

Thunderbird needs to do some cleaning, which will save about XXXX MB of disk space. This normal maintenance does not remove messages from Trash or other folders. If you check the box below before you proceed, Thunderbird will do this automatically in the future and not bother you again.

Simple and to the point -- although "cleaning" is not my preferred word here (see upcoming note on Comment 33).

Given you said this (which I take also applies broadly to most other user operations, as they either work compatibly or they are inhibited by the COMPACT process):

...to dispel concerns about dataloss, shutting down Thunderbird during compact does not result in problems nor dataloss. And as far as I know we don't have any such bug reports.

...then Comment #33 is the way to go on wording:

"The Thunderbird program is performing internal self-maintenance." or something like that. I think you're better off not saying anything and just do it, as long as no negative consequences if they close out.

But then Comment #47 kicks in...

If user checks the "don't ask again" checkbox, when the message occurs the very first time, compacting [becomes] fully automatic from then on.

As long as the compact/flush process is fully interruptible with no harm done, then the process can always be fully automatic -- which is what you've advocated all along -- and so the actual wording becomes moot, as the question isn't required. The user can write new messages, GETMAILs can run automatically as usual or manually on demand, and messages can be read, moved, deleted, etc, without fear. (All of our concerns have been "What Happens If..." -- which have pretty much been answered if your Comment #50 applies.)

(But I would still want to be able to manually trigger a compact before archiving, just to know things are as compact as possible at the moment. :)

I forgot about comment 33 and comment 35 - yes, "maintenance" is as good as or better than "cleaning". Note - it needs no adjectives nor embellishment - short is important. Some reduction of comment 35 could be merged with comment 49. xxx MB needs to stay. Again, automatic, as in totally removing the dialog without user opt-in, is totally out of scope.

I think we are on the right track. What about this as it meets the requirements Wayne mentioned.
'Routine file maintenance' is not theatening and describes the overall process.
Instructions on what to do.
One of the most frequent questions is how do I stop this pop up message because they keep clicking on 'Cancel' and it reappears as soon as they delete/move something. The 'For more information' should not need to be an additional click - I'm not in favour of additional clicks - stating the link to compacting article should suffice.

"Thunderbird needs to perform routine file maintenance to recover xxMB disc space."
"Click on 'Proceed' to start or 'Cancel' to delay.
" To allow Thunderbird to do this automatically from now onwards, select the checkbox below before you click on 'Proceed'.
checkbox: “Do this automatically in the future.”
"For more information:" link to Help Article on compacting

It is short, uses maintenance says XXMB info and states all options. Personally, I'm not in favour of 'Cancel' because it does not Cancel, it delays and pops up again as soon as you delete an email. A 'Delay' button would be more accurate, but providing it is made clear that 'Cancel' means delay or 'not now', it's ok.

Perhaps we talk about optimising the mail storage. People like things to be optimal

"Thunderbird needs to optimise your mail storage as it appears to be fragmented. This process is expected to recover XX of disk space"

(In reply to Dan Pernokis from comment #46)

...The system should always do the right thing and should not bully users into steps they don't understand nor confuse the user to the point of fear and refusal to act. That's why simple (not inaccurate nor mind-boggling) phrasing is required.

I will add to this that I have sat down at many users' computers, and seen the Thunderbird message about compacting, and they will always cancel, because they do not know what choosing the alternative will do to their email. I once hit "compact", and the user panicked, thinking I've done something horrible to their email.

This entire thing should just go away.

I would go even shorter:

"Thunderbird is performing routine email maintenance."

Worcester, that's even better!

Comment 54 again... The actual wording becomes moot if a the question isn't required. If the process is continual but fully intetrruptable (ie- runs in the background, user can quit TB at any time, or move emails, compose, send/recv), then all we need is exactly your message -- performing routine maintenance -- just so the user has a sense of what is happening (regularly, we presume) without the urgency of a big question and no worries about what will happen (no "wrong" choice to make).

As Matt says (Comment 58), "People like things to be optimal". So we'd have a pretty good simple summary if we said:
"Thunderbird is performing routine email maintenance & optimization."
Says exactly what we're doing -- and why...

As Wayne Mery stated in Comment 56 “automatic, as in totally removing the dialog without user opt-in, is totally out of scope.”

I guess he knows what he is talking about, so it seems mandatory that the user can choose to compact, or not to compact (except if he/she has already chosen “do automatically in the future”).

And thus, the phrasing of this question has to make sure that:

  • an inexperienced user is reassured that it is save for him/her to click “proceed”
  • the experienced user has the option to circumvent compacting at this time, whatever reason he /she may have.

At least this is what I’d conclude from Comment 56.

I’d think that Anje’s idea in Comment 57 to call the ‘cancel’ button a ‘delay’ button is valid – but I think it should be called something less technical, like “Not now – ask again later”.

So, my text suggestion would be:
<Begin Text>
Thunderbird asks for your permission to do some housekeeping: This housekeeping (“compacting”) will save XXX MB of of disk space by optimizing the file structure. It is recommended that you allow this since it is a maintenance process that is necessary from time to time to assure Thunderbird stays agile, and ultimately to prevent malfunction. Optionally, if you tick the box before you click “Proceed”, Thunderbird will in the future perform this housekeeping process automatically whenever necessary, and not ask again.

[Text for checkbox]
“Do this automatically in the future.”

[first button] “Proceed” [second button] “Not now – ask again later”

More details can be found here https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/compacting-folders
(or respective localization for this link i.e. https://support.mozilla.org/de/kb/ordner-komprimieren)
<End Text>

My suggested text seems to be quite long, but I think that it is actually hard to do this much shorter.

A possibility could be to truncate the text - as follows
“Thunderbird asks for your permission to do some housekeeping: This housekeeping (“compacting”) will save XXX MB of of disk space by optimizing the file structure. It is recommended that you allow this [more]”

and clicking on [more] will show the remaining text.

What do you you think?

(In reply to Dan Pernokis from comment #62)
...

As Matt says (Comment 58), "People like things to be optimal". So we'd have a pretty good simple summary if we said:
"Thunderbird is performing routine email maintenance & optimization."
Says exactly what we're doing -- and why...

Still too wordy. People will see "maintenance" and will understand that optimization is part of it, or just not know or care, so keep it short.

"Thunderbird is performing routine email maintenance."

(In reply to harry_cube from comment #63)
...
snip a bunch of words
...

So, my text suggestion would be:
...
What do you you think?

WAY too wordy. People don't know or don't care. The whole issue of space is either misunderstood and confusing for many/most, and not a concern of the rest because storage is so cheap and plentiful.

"Thunderbird is performing routine email maintenance." says all that needs to be said. If it is decided to not interact with the user, then put that in another bug, I guess. My thought is that zero words is less than a few words, so meets the criteria here. ;-)

Thanks, Harry.

Although it makes sense to inform as much as possible, every single word is a potentially scary word that can be misleading, misinterpreted or mis-translated. Agile? Prevent malfunction? Necessary? Assure? Automatically? All are discomforting concepts to some minds.

If we have to pose a choice, then I much prefer your shorter example with the "more" option for more details -- but would rather something really short & sweet as proposed previously, also with "more" option. Or no-words (ie- fully automated, status-only) as Matt proposes.

FYI, Wayne's comment about "out-of-scope" refers to discussion of implementation (automatic? manual? continuous?) in THIS bug (of which I am obviously a guilty repeat offender).

(In reply to Worcester12345 from comment #64)

"Thunderbird is performing routine email maintenance." says all that needs to be said. If it is decided to not interact with the user, then put that in another bug, I guess. My thought is that zero words is less than a few words, so meets the criteria here. ;-)

To just state that "Thunderbird is performing routine email maintenance." is not an option. I repeat again Wayne's statement from comment 56 "automatic, as in totally removing the dialog without user opt-in, is totally out of scope." This implies IMHO that not giving the user a choice what to do, but instead just stating what Thunderbird is already doing, is not an option.

If you are interested in the exact reasons why it is important to give users the choice to avoid that compacting takes place (=the user can influence whether, and when, a compacting process in being performed by Thunderbird), you'd need to ask Wayne. Since he is a TB developer since a long time, I'd think he knows what he is talking about.

Current dialog box - TB 90.0.b2

Yeah, and this is what we've been objecting to since this new wording went in. Let's not make a bad thing worse. As a stop-gap, we should go back to the original panel -- not perfect, but not so scary. Then ultimately, we need to decide if TB should automate the maintenance fully and/or run "continuously" (with menu option to run anytime on demand) -- but as Wayne says, that discussion is outside the scope of THIS bug.

Until it is decided to skip the dialog box altogether, I'd have another proposal (the current dialog actually is scary, especially the part which reads "remove message deletions automatically")

How about this text (truncated until [more] will be clicked) :
<Begin Text>
“Thunderbird wants to do some housekeeping. Recommendation for most users (and also if you have no clue what this is all about): Tick the check box and click proceed; Thunderbird will then do everything automatically, [more]
[Text for checkbox]
“Do this automatically in the future.”
[first button] “Proceed” [second button] “Not now”
<End Text>
Clicking on [more] will show the remaining text, which reads:
<Begin ‘more’>
This housekeeping (“compacting”) will save XXX MB of of disk space by optimizing the file structure. This maintenance process is necessary from time to time to assure Thunderbird stays agile, and ultimately to prevent malfunction.
More details can be found here https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/compacting-folders
<End ‘more’>

What do you think?

I’d think that part of the problem to find a clear wording is due to that there is no clear opinion on this from the side of the devs. My perception is that the opinion on the side of the devs is something like: “Yes, you can safely do compacting, and also automatic compacting of folders, but you’ll do this on your own risk.

I have seen that something can go wrong
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/compacting-folders-potential-complications

So it could be that – if many more users will set this to automatic – that there are some more support questions due to this.

I admit that I myself haven’t set compacting folders to “automatic”, and I am sure that there are users with special needs who do definitely not want this compacting process being performed without being asked before.

If the info here is accurate, in earlier times (about 7 years ago) the default had been set to automatic:
http://kb.mozillazine.org/Thunderbird_:_Tips_:_Compacting_Folders#Automatically

“mail.purge.ask defaults to false in recent versions of Thunderbird and of SeaMonkey, to disable being prompted if it's okay to automatically compact the folder. In old versions you may need to modify that using the Preferences or Options dialog (see above), Thunderbird's config editor or SeaMonkey's about:config. “

I’m not trying to argue here that the default should be “automatic compacting”, but I do think that the current wording is actually causing fear of data loss for many people who then refrain from doing this compacting at all. And users fear and uncertainty is obviously also the reason for a lot of support requests on this single issue.

So I’d believe it is a good idea to change the current wording as swiftly as possible. My current proposal from Comment 69 might seem a little too casual. My answer to this would be that interested users can always click on “More” and keep reading for technical info.

Flags: needinfo?(vseerror)

the question is (and I am not sure about current status) what TB does on really full harddisks. In 'old times' (maybe still around TB 60), it might write to harddisk without checking whether there is enough space and might silently crash/delete stuff. I occasionally lost calendars or inboxes when windows silently ate up the remaining 2 GB of harddisk for downloading a major update, and TB then wrote data when only 20 MB disk were left free.

This (free disk space management) may have been fully fixed, or not. So I personally opt not to set this to automatic purge. I once lost a 10 GB inbox while on a business trip (on mobile data) and there was no way to redownload that much. Since then, I am careful about this and do compacting only directly after backups.

(In reply to klaus from comment #71)
when windows silently ate up the remaining 2 GB of harddisk for downloading a major update, and TB then wrote data when only 20 MB disk were left free.

Well, I guess you should think about installing additional diskspace on your system - you might end up losing data even if you don't allow Thunderbird to do any compacting. Other than that, I totally understand that you prefer to initiate this folder compacting yourself, and not set it to automatic. I do the same.

But this bug is about changing the (IMO really badly chosen and misleading) wording, and maybe also including info such as https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/compacting-folders

Can please somebody who can do so give this bug a push forward !

The latest proposed wording can be found in Comment 69 ....

(In reply to klaus from comment #71)

the question is (and I am not sure about current status) what TB does on really full harddisks.
This (free disk space management) may have been fully fixed, or not.

Please stay on topic with bug comments. This question is appropriate for a support venue, but it's not the focus of this bug.

We've got plenty of interesting suggestions, so I'm now restricting bug comments to promote staying on topic until we get this fixed. I'll post a suggested wording soon for developers to consider.

Restrict Comments: true

Would anyone like to comment on my suggestion in Comment 57 which is not verbose, complicated and no additional clicks.

Below is an initial proposal to UX. It is a combination of many of your suggestions. "remind me later" wording comes from aleca. I added "Not now" for additional clarity, but if it is deemed unnecessary I'm happy to see it dropped.

Please bear in mind that with a dozen or more people interested in this issue, it is not possible to incorporate wording that everyone will agree with - so compromise and flexibility is necessary.

Reiterating a previous idea, brevity is essential in dialogs - in part because we can't adequately convey the complexity of this function to users, nor do most users need it. And more words and complexity often generate confusion. So if there is a shorter wording that conveys the same information, I'm all ears.

Side note, in bug 1718443 it is proposed to expose the prompting preference, so that it can be toggled independent of the compact prompt.

Thunderbird needs to perform routine file maintenance to recover xxMB of disk space. This maintenance is needed periodically to optimize storage for better performance. To let Thunderbird do this automatically in the future without asking you, select the option below then click Proceed. For more information: <link to Help Article on compacting>

. . . (Proceed) [ ] Do not ask me in the future
. . . (Not now, remind me later)

Thomas, aleca, please weigh in

Flags: needinfo?(vseerror)
Flags: needinfo?(bugzilla2007)
Flags: needinfo?(alessandro)

(In reply to Anje from comment #75)

Would anyone like to comment on my suggestion in Comment 57 which is not verbose, complicated and no additional clicks.

I was composing comment 76 this morning and our comments overlapped. I believe comment 76 incorporates much of comment 57.

I'm happy with Wayne's proposal in Comment 76 as it covers everything in simple terms with minimal words.

See Also: → 1718443

Note - the work needs to be completed this week because of strings, if this is to make it into version 91 (beta builds next week)

status-thunderbird91: --- → affected
status-thunderbird_esr78: --- → wontfix
tracking-thunderbird91: --- → +
Whiteboard: [l10n impact]

Or "This storage optimization is needed periodically to maintain good performance. Select the "automatic" option below then click Proceed to let Thunderbird do this without asking you."

Thunderbird needs to perform routine file maintenance to recover xxMB of disk space. This maintenance is needed periodically to optimize storage for better performance. To let Thunderbird do this automatically in the future without asking you, select the option below then click Proceed. For more information: <link to Help Article on compacting>

Sounds good to me.
I'll take care of it.

Assignee: nobody → alessandro
Flags: needinfo?(alessandro)

(In reply to Wayne Mery (:wsmwk) from comment #76)

Below is an initial proposal to UX. It is a combination of many of your suggestions. "remind me later" wording comes from aleca. [snip] Thomas, aleca, please weigh in

Thanks Wayne for facing the beast here! This looks very promising and it's going in the right direction. I like the non-complex, less technical, positive sound of it. I've been reflecting on this after a good look at the history, and I'd suggest some minor modifications based on Wayne's great initial proposal.

Compact Folders

Thunderbird needs to do regular file maintenance to improve the performance of your mail folders. This will recover 123 MB of disk space without changing your messages. To let Thunderbird do this automatically in the future without asking you, check the box below before choosing ‘Compact now’. For more information, see the <help article on compacting>.

▢ Compact folders automatically in the future without asking me

Compact now Remind me later

  • Reshuffle and shorten Wayne's first two sentences into one
  • Simplify the language even more to sound less abstract and technical (also try to stick with the top 3000 words of English: periodically isn't in that lot and really means regularly, also same as routine iiuc)
  • Present key benefit in the first sentence: Compact improves performance of user's mail folders (mail folders is something users know, and they will certainly like better performance!)
  • Make it explicit that even though we're recovering disk space, we're not touching existing messages
  • "check the box" - plain and simple
  • Dialog UX best practice: Dialog should work without reading the small print, buttons/options should convey their action in a self-contained way.
    • Proceed isn't a clearly defined action; Compact now is, and that's what's going to happen (regardless of the checkbox value). We should make that clear, because compacting is an interruption which takes time - maybe we should even make that explicit in a friendly and harmless way?
    • Do not ask me in the future: perhaps not clear enough without the smallprint. This might be misunderstood as "I don't want to be bothered with compact - opt out and stop compacting for good", especially when it's just Proceed after that. It's really about Compact folders automatically..., but even automatical compacting might still ask. Also, our current default is a double negative: Not Do not ask.... Hence I've phrased the checkbox text as a positive and deliberately explicit for the avoidance of doubt. EDIT: on second thoughts, maybe we could skip "...without asking me" (which is already in the small print) to remain with
      ▢ Compact folders automatically in the future.
Flags: needinfo?(bugzilla2007)
Attachment #9229792 - Flags: feedback?(vseerror)
Attachment #9229792 - Flags: feedback?(anjeyelf)
Attachment #9229792 - Flags: feedback?(alessandro)

(In reply to Wayne Mery (:wsmwk) from comment #76)

Side note, in bug 1718443 it is proposed to expose the prompting preference, so that it can be toggled independent of the compact prompt.

Absolutely, a pref which can be toggled off in the UI should also have UI to toggle it on again (ux-consistency). More so in this particular case, as a matter of ux-control.

This sounds good.
The only thing I'd like to suggest is to remove the you from this sentence.

To let Thunderbird do this automatically in the future without asking you, ...

Attachment #9229792 - Flags: feedback?(alessandro) → feedback+

Comment on attachment 9229792 [details]
Mockup 1: New Compact Folders dialog proposal

Good reorganization. I agree with dropping "you".

One remaining concern (which perhaps isn't new to this revision), is potential user confusion that might result in marking the checkbox and then clicking "Remind me later".

Can we left align "Compact now", to be directly underneath the checkbox?

Attachment #9229792 - Flags: feedback?(vseerror) → feedback+
Status: NEW → ASSIGNED

(In reply to Alessandro Castellani [:aleca] from comment #84)

This sounds good.
The only thing I'd like to suggest is to remove the you from this sentence.

To let Thunderbird do this automatically in the future without asking you, ...

I also agree with this - good call.

Can we left align "Compact now", to be directly underneath the checkbox?

I can understand the logic, but some people suffer with mouse control - eg: they have a shake control issue, it is a bit harder to select a checkbox than a large button, so keeping the two apart may help and stop accidental selection.

I think we have a little hiccup here.
This dialog is triggered via C++ and I don't think it supports the markup necessary to add a clickable link in the text.
This is what I get when trying to add that link.

Flags: needinfo?(vseerror)

I think we could solve this by adding a Learn more... button to the left which links to that KB article, and drop that part from the message.

Sounds like an eminently workable solution.

Keywords: checkin-needed-tb
Target Milestone: --- → 91 Branch

Pushed by mkmelin@iki.fi:
https://hg.mozilla.org/comm-central/rev/98987ffa7817
Improve the wording of the compact folders dialog. r=darktrojan

Status: ASSIGNED → RESOLVED
Closed: 3 years ago
Keywords: checkin-needed-tb
Resolution: --- → FIXED
Flags: needinfo?(vseerror)

I confirm as fixed in 91 beta. It looks great. Thanks to everyone.

Status: RESOLVED → VERIFIED
status-thunderbird91: affected → fixed
Regressions: 1720540

Many thanks. This looks like a huge improvement.

Great! Here's how it looks now. Thanks everyone!

To complete the picture, here's a screenshot of the compact preferences after Bug 1718443. The mail.purge.ask preference is now exposed under Preferences > General > Disk Space. So users can choose unprompted, automatic compacting directly, or return to prompted compacting at any time.

Note that the checkbox on the compact dialog and its equivalent in Preferences have reverse logic in their wording, hence reverse checked status for the same internal pref (mail.purge.ask):

Compact Dialog: ▢ Compact folders automatically in the future [without asking]

Preferences: ☑ Ask every time before compacting

Attachment #9229792 - Flags: feedback?(anjeyelf)
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