1543430 - Compact german translation

Status: RESOLVED DUPLICATE of bug 545935

(Mozilla Localizations :: de / German, defect)

Description

[Anje]

User Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:66.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/66.0

Steps to reproduce:

User on Support Forum made a request.
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1255861

Please read the comment below as itis a copy of the user's request regarding the translation of 'compact' into german.
'komprimieren' translates to compress which is apprarently incorrect and misleading.

Actual results:

User says: In german Thunderbird a popup asks me if i want to "Ordner komprimieren", which leads the reader to think the folders should be compressed. But compacting folders by cleaning out deleted mails is not the same as compressing.

Expected results:

User says: A better translation should use the verb "bereinigen" (which means purge).

Comment 1

[Wayne Mery (:wsmwk)]

this is a real issue, because we frequently see bugzilla and support posts that confuse compact with compress, in part because of this translation. Thunderbird is not compressing, it is compacting.

A poor description - compress makes the string made up of messages "ABCD" smaller, versus compact REMOVES deleted messages so that the string made up of the messages "ABCD" becomes "AB", where messages C and D no longer exist.

Comment 2

[Robert Kaiser]

I thought about this long and hard about 10-15 years ago as I never liked the translation myself, but there is no good German word for this that people can actually understand. I am tempted to close this as WONTFIX just because there is no really good solution, but I guess we can leave it open for a bit and see if anyone comes up with a good word (and FWIW "kompaktieren" is not acceptable, it's something no normal user will every understand).

Comment 3

[Robert Kaiser]

Also, FWIW, Netscape 3.x and 4.x had the same "komprimieren" translation, so they didn't have a better idea back then either.

Comment 4

[Francesco Lodolo [:flod]]

For what it's worth, Microsoft seems to use exactly the same word in Outlook (compact->komprimieren)
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/language/Search?&searchTerm=compact&langID=354&Source=true&productid=530

Comment 5

[Wayne Mery (:wsmwk)]

Dupe to bug 545935 (a successor of sorts to bug 249368), and reopening that bug?

Examples of where the current translation may be failing for the user:
bug 1454246
bug 1209813
bug 765471

(and mbox is still going to live for quite some time longer)

Comment 6

[Djfe]

some ideas besides "Datenbank/Konto bereinigen"

• verdichten
• aufräumen
• trimmen (like you trim SSDs)

other English words for compact: reduce, shrink
so maybe we could translate it like that

• schrumpfen
• einstampfen
• verkleinern
• minimieren
• verschlanken
• ausdünnen

does compact only delete entries from the database or does it also reduce fragmentation?
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sql/relational-databases/indexes/reorganize-and-rebuild-indexes?view=sql-server-2017
in that case: "defragmentieren" might be another possible translation

Comment 7

[Robert Kaiser]

There is no fragmentation in this format, just normal delete does not delete entries, only marks them as deleted, while compact actually deletes them by rewriting the mbox (I would not call an mbox file a database).

Of course, given that Netscape used the same word in the past and Microsoft is using the same, and all documentation out there uses it, there's the additional question if switching to a different word would actually confuse users nowadays.

Comment 8

[Robert Kaiser]

(In reply to Wayne Mery (:wsmwk) from comment #5)

Dupe to bug 545935 (a successor of sorts to bug 249368), and reopening that bug?

Hmm, yes, it practically is a dupe... but if we come up with a good solution and feel good with other concerns brought up, then I think we may not want to mark it as such right away.

Comment 9

[Djfe]

Does moving a mail from one folder to another mark it as deleted in the mbox file?
If so, then "aufräumen" (to tidy) might be the best translation (tidying folders by completing all pending delete operations)

Comment 10

[Wayne Mery (:wsmwk)]

(In reply to Djfe from comment #9)

Does moving a mail from one folder to another mark it as deleted in the mbox file?

Yes. Each copy of a message in any folder is a unique storage location (with perhaps the exception of gmail accounts, where at least initially there is only one physical representation of each message).

So delete, mark as junk (if you have the default setting which moves the message to the spam folder), move, etc all create "dead space".

Comment 11

[Markus Senoner]

Hi, I'm the original submitter of this bug, and I also suggested a solution - but it got ignored on the way.
I'm of german mothertongue, and I can assure you "bereinigen" would suit our need perfectly.

"bereinigen" means purge or clean up - and that's what we do, when we compact the mailbox by elimitating messages, which were marked as deleted.

Please use it! Don't care if Microsoft or other dinosaurs have it wrong also.

Comment 12

[Wayne Mery (:wsmwk)]

The current direction of bug 716412 may make this bug obsolete

Comment 13

[Djfe]

Attachment: Screenshot K-9 Mail

I just noticed that the translators of K-9 Mail also called it "bereinigen" (Android mail app)

Comment 14

[Wayne Mery (:wsmwk)]

Did the changes in bug 716412 help move this issue forward?
Or are we still in the same flawed boat?

Comment 15

[Alex Ihrig [:Thunderbird_Mail_DE]]

I have nothing against "bereinigen" myself. We can switch there if you like.

But, many years ago we had the same discussion and temporarily used the term "bereinigen" in Thunderbird. This ended in at least as many inquiries and confusion in the support forum among users. "Bereinigen" can also be understood quite differently. In the German language, the term "komprimieren" is not only used by Microsoft and dinosaurs, but also in databases where "komprimieren" is also used to translate "compact".

We can then nicely explain all documentation using the old and the new term.

Comment 16

[Sebastian Hengst [:aryx] (needinfo me if it's about an intermittent or backout)]

Closing this bug as duplicate of bug 545935.

"Bereinigen" ("Clean up") can be interpreted to discard information (e.g. old mails) and the users are not aware what the command actually does (remove 'dead' data). "Komprimieren" in the context of data / text is generally understood to be lossless, that's why the latter applies better. The real solution is one which doesn't expose this process to the user, either by using a one-file-per-message format or only removing the obsolete data automatically in the background.