Open Bug 1727931 Opened 3 years ago Updated 11 months ago

Unix mailspool (movemail) stopped working after the feature was removed [to be restored in bug 1802145]

Categories

(Thunderbird :: Account Manager, defect)

Product:
Thunderbird
Component:
Account Manager
Version:
Thunderbird 91
Type:
defect

Tracking

(Not tracked)

Status:
REOPENED

People

(Reporter: dutchkind, Unassigned)

References

(Depends on 1 open bug)

Details

Attachments

(1 obsolete file)

User Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/91.0

Steps to reproduce:

Open Thunderbird and fetch mail

Actual results:

After the latest update to Thunderbird 91 my localhost mailbox disappeared and I couldn't fetch internal linux system mail anymore. It seems movemail has been removed from Thunderbird, why????!!!! Stripping anything that isn't used much will not help Mozilla in the long run.

Expected results:

Movemail should have stayed, it is still used by many Linux users. But it is also very annoying that the localhost mail folder containing old system mails was dropped, it should still be visible since it is a mailbox

Indeed, it was removed. https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/91.0/releasenotes/

Frustrating for those that used it. But as noted in bug 1625741 "if you go by monthly user counts, we have ~180K Linux users(~1% of all) and 2101 of them have a movemail account in their profile. That only amounts to 1.17% of Linux users"

Status: UNCONFIRMED → RESOLVED
Closed: 3 years ago
Resolution: --- → WONTFIX
See Also: → 1625741

Well, that's too bad. I for the moment downgraded to 78 and for the moment it will stay there. Maybe, after 10+ years with Thunderbird, I have to start looking for another mail client that is more reliable, removing features just like that is not really reliable. I don't need fancy features, just want a secure reliable mail client.

Maybe the lack of the movemail support is why Debian is still using v78.13.0.

(In reply to Mikhail Morfikov from comment #3)

Maybe the lack of the movemail support is why Debian is still using v78.13.0.

Indeed using the small user base of thunderbird 91* is just like a self-fulfilling prophecy ... please count all users which depends on movemail before removing this feature and this not only for Debian but also for Fedora and openSUSE

The numbers are on 78!

If there is a desire out there to have the functionality, someone should create an add-on for it. Add-ons can implement custom account types, even if it does take some effort to to do so.

WONTFIX is not the correct resolution for a regression with working user setups. HOw this bug can be reopen ... or is upstream of thunderbird really the opinion that hard regressions do not matter and can be ignored?

Flags: needinfo?(vseerror)

I am not a developer, but the decision has been made by the module owners to no longer carry this functionality in the comm-central code base, which is the reason for WONTFIX (see https://wiki.mozilla.org/BMO/UserGuide/BugStatuses). WONTFIX in the example means it won't be reopened. upstream can of course do as they wish. Or someone can develop an addon as mentioned in comment 6.

Status: RESOLVED → VERIFIED
Flags: needinfo?(vseerror)

I'm happy that I personal use mutt and never jumped over to one of those graphical MUAs ... nevertheless now I've to explain why thunderbird community/developers do not care about normal users anymore

(In reply to Magnus Melin [:mkmelin] from comment #6)

The numbers are on 78!

If there is a desire out there to have the functionality, someone should create an add-on for it. Add-ons can implement custom account types, even if it does take some effort to to do so.

It's a really weird way of thinking. Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it true that TB doesn't have a proper tray icon just because "if there is a desire out there to have the functionality, someone should create an add-on for it"? :D

This is horrible.

Please restore movemail functionality. The decision to remove this functionality appears to have happened without gauging how many users actually use this functionality.

As this appears to be the right place to do it, I'd like to also voice support for restoring movemail functionality. I have used this for many years and continue to use it daily to see the output of my cron jobs.

I recently tried upgrading to the 91.x series release and immediately noticed my local Unix Mailspool account had silently vanished. Lack of movemail support is currently the main thing keeping me on 78.x.

Access to local mailspool accounts is one of the main distinguishing features that a desktop mail client like Thunderbird provides that a webmail interface does not. It's one of the key features that I would use to explain to my colleagues why I continue to use a desktop client.

For what it's worth, using Thunderbird to monitor cron output is not unusual and has been widely documented around the web for decades:

I want to use thunderbird to read from my local mailbox, /var/mail/joe.

https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-software-2/thunderbird-can%27t-find-mail-spool-177930/

My mail client of choice is Thunderbird. Can I read /var/mail messages in Thunderbird? How?

https://askubuntu.com/questions/1916/how-can-i-access-system-mail-in-var-mail-via-thunderbird/

Using Movemail with Thunderbird on Ubuntu

https://askubuntu.com/questions/301988/using-movemail-with-thunderbird-on-ubuntu

My question is, how can I use an HTML capable email client like Thunderbird to read local (root email, etc.) emails?

https://askubuntu.com/questions/192572/how-do-i-read-local-email-in-thunderbird

Can I read /var/mail with a GUI?

https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/427136/can-i-read-var-mail-with-a-gui

Even the Wikipedia page for Thunderbird states that movemail is supported.

On Linux-based systems, system mail (movemail) accounts are supported.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Thunderbird

There is also a lot of questions about what to do now that this functionality is no longer available:

Voilà une bien mauvaise nouvelle. :pleur4:

Il va me falloir configurer un serveur POP3 ou quitter Thunderbird pour un outil qui utilise toujours Movemail. Je vais y réfléchir, je pars demain en vacances pour une semaine, ça attendra mon retour.

https://www.mageialinux-online.org/forum/topic-29318-1+firefox-91.php#m292403

Up until the change to thunderbird-91 I could use the builtin Unix movemail to get mail from my local postfix server folders (/var/mail/<me>) into thunderbird and send outgoing mail thru postfix. Thunderbird-91 does not recognize my existing .thunderbird/xxx.default/Mail/localhost folder, although it is still there. I can rename the folder in "Local Folders" and see old mail, but cannot get new mail. I had a Slackpkg from March 2021 for thunderbird-78 and reverted to that, and a week old .thunderbird folder backup and reverted to that, since -91 changed .thunderbird in some subtle way. So I have a "workaround" but no fix....

https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/thunderbird-91-with-unix-mail-broken-4175699339/

I was (quite happily) using a movemail mailbox to monitor backups, some log entries, and other periodic system processes, but suddenly today it vanished from Thunderbird. I also cannot re-add it again in the Other Account section.

I can see that movemail support was dropped from Thunderbird 87 beta so I assume it has been dropped now from 91. This is troublesome - I can always redirect messages to my actual terminal mailbox, but the spool file could catch little errors or warnings, like from rsync, which I wasn't expecting. Obviously they are still going to the spool file, but now I have to read it directly rather than alongside the rest of my messages.

Is there an alternative way of adding a mailbox which will allow me to view the contents of the local mailbox?

https://old.reddit.com/r/Thunderbird/comments/pptgvo/alternative_method_of_reading_spool_file_in/

We need the movemail feature. Please add this support back.

Please post it if you are considered to be a tiny part of the "MOVEMAIL" users too.

Please add back support for the movemail feature! This was a poor decision

Please add it back.

Well I've already switched to Palemoon for my web browser, looks like I will need to find a Thunderbird alternative for reading mail ☹

It is said in bug 1625741 comment 87 that "Movemail" shall be re-added, which I appreciate. I think it's a core functionality that should be supported.

(In reply to Wayne Mery (:wsmwk) from comment #1)

Indeed, it was removed. https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/91.0/releasenotes/

Frustrating for those that used it. But as noted in bug 1625741 "if you go by monthly user counts, we have ~180K Linux users(~1% of all) and 2101 of them have a movemail account in their profile. That only amounts to 1.17% of Linux users"

Hi Wayne, since in bug 1625741 comment 87 has been expressed the intention of re-adding this functionality can this bug be reopened, or should we open a new bug?

Depends on: 1802145

(In reply to Maurizio Avogadro from comment #19)

Hi Wayne, since in bug 1625741 comment 87 has been expressed the intention of re-adding this functionality can this bug be reopened, or should we open a new bug?

Thanks Maurizio for following up on this.
I've created bug 1802145 for the technical re-implementation of the feature.

Status: VERIFIED → REOPENED
Ever confirmed: true
Resolution: WONTFIX → ---

Movemail support will be re-implemented in bug 1802145

Thanks everyone for your feedback!

There's an intention to restore movemail support in bug 1802145, which is strictly reserved for the technical re-implementation - no further advocacy on that bug please. If you really still need to say something which hasn't been said before, it will better to comment here. Restoring the feature needs planning, work and resources, we cannot just back out bug 1625741.

Summary: unix mailspool (movemail) stopped working → Unix mailspool (movemail) stopped working after the feature was removed [to be restored in bug 1802145]
Duplicate of this bug: 1802129

That is good news. As the Thunderbird fork 'Betterbird' already restored Movemail successfully in a recent build, I think it should be possible to merge that code with Thunderbird quite easy.

(In reply to plelivel from comment #23)

That is good news. As the Thunderbird fork 'Betterbird' already restored Movemail successfully in a recent build, I think it should be possible to merge that code with Thunderbird quite easy.

I had a quick look at the Betterbird Github repo and found the following:

I found a hacky workaround for how to read local mail in Thunderbird 102.

  1. Under "Local Folders", create a new folder, e.g. called "spool".
  2. In a file manager / terminal, go to ~/.thunderbird/your-profile-id.default/Mail/Local Folders/.
  3. Delete the zero-size file called spool.
  4. Create a symbolic link in its place, pointing to your mail file (/var/spool/mail/your-username).

It is rather buggy in that Thunderbird doesn't see new mail until you restart it, and all messages will spontaneously become "unread". There's probably going to be other problems. But, basic mail reading works.

(In reply to Vladimir Panteleev from comment #25)

I found a hacky workaround for how to read local mail in Thunderbird 102.

  1. Under "Local Folders", create a new folder, e.g. called "spool".
  2. In a file manager / terminal, go to ~/.thunderbird/your-profile-id.default/Mail/Local Folders/.
  3. Delete the zero-size file called spool.
  4. Create a symbolic link in its place, pointing to your mail file (/var/spool/mail/your-username).

It is rather buggy in that Thunderbird doesn't see new mail until you restart it, and all messages will spontaneously become "unread". There's probably going to be other problems. But, basic mail reading works.

At a glance this seems to be the same workaround as mentioned at https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1625741#c35 ? (the symlink part of the comment, not the scripted mailbox rescue/merge part). If I've not missed a subtle difference and it is, then please check the followup comments there in case you can offer further insights. If it is in fact different then please followup here so my reply doesn't ruin the signal-to-noise of your comment. When I posted the linked workaround I "lobbed it over the wall" and didn't have time to parse the replies enough to know if there were actual "problems" beyond the "buggy" behaviours you already describe in your comment (but I think it is just those). Now the effort has been committed to (eventually) reinstate movemail too, so it seems the motivation/urgency to improve workarounds has dropped.

Any update on the planning/roadmap for the restoration of Movemail in TB?

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