181245 - AAHIG: File menu corrections

Status: VERIFIED WONTFIX

(Camino Graveyard :: Toolbars & Menus, enhancement)

Description

[Stephane Moureau]

User-Agent:       Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20021119 Chimera/0.6+
Build Identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20021119 Chimera/0.6+

The File menu contains several 'mistakes' based on AHIG, see URL above.

File   (current version)

New Window       Cmd-N
New Tab          Cmd-T
''
Open File...     Cmd-O
Open Location... Cmd-L
''
Close Window     Cmd-W
Close Tab
''
Send Link
''
Save As...       Cmd-S
''
Page Setup...    Shift-Cmd-P
Print...         Cmd-P



File   (new, AHIG compliant)

New              Cmd-N
New Tab          Cmd-T
''
Open...          Cmd-O
Open Recent      > (list)
''
Close Window "Apple"       Cmd-W
Close Tab "Apple Support"  Shift-Cmd-W
''
Save             Cmd-S
''
Import Bookmarks...
''
Page Setup...    Shift-Cmd-P
Print...         Cmd-P


File   (new with OPTION key pressed)

New              Cmd-N
New Tab          Cmd-T
''
Open...          Cmd-O
Open Recent      > (list)
''
Close All Windows  Option-Cmd-W
Close All Tabs     Option-Shift-Cmd-W
''
Save All         Option-Cmd-S
''
Import Bookmarks...
''
Page Setup...    Shift-Cmd-P
Print All...     Option-Cmd-P

Reproducible: Always

Steps to Reproduce:




EXPLANATIONS:

New Window => New
New is the normal command to create a new window, useless to specify "Window" as
it's the standard behavior, so we must use the standard menu item name "New".


Open File... => Open...
Open... is the normal command to open a file, useless to specify "File" as it's
the standard behavior, so we must use the standard menu item name "Open...".
See below "Open Location...".


Open Recent > (list)
See AHIG "The Open Dialog"
"If you implement an Open command, you SHOULD also include an Open Recent
command so users can access recently opened documents without going through the
dialog."
See Bug 179673


Close Tab can not use Cmd-W, it's for "Close Window".
See this bug URL, "The File menu".

"In a file-based application that supports multiple views of THE SAME FILE, you
can include a Close File command below Close Window, to close a file and all its
associated windows. If possible, include the filename in the menu (for example,
Close File "Jerry's Kids").
Shift-Command-W CAN BE USED as the keyboard equivalent for Close File."

Using "Shift-Command-W" for closing a window with tabs is inappropriate.
Tabs are NOT views of the SAME file.

AHIG: "Shift-Command-W" is not mandatory used for "Close File"
so we can use it for "Close Tab".



Close Window/Tab "Document's name"
If possible add the document name in the menu.


Close All.
AHIG: "The keyboard equivalents Command-W and Option-Command-W should implement
the Close and Close All commands, respectively. The Close command and Command-W
should not close utility windows."

"Close All Tabs"
I don't know if we need that, it's almost a "Close Window".


Save
See Bug 181225


Save All
AHIG: Must exist in the File menu, see this bug URL.


Import Bookmarks...
See Bug 178963


File - Open Location... Cmd-L
must be moved to
(Go - Home)
(Go - Search Page   Shift-Cmd-F)
Go - Location...    Cmd-L

It's rather a Go item like Home and Search Page.
It will be more consistant in the Go menu.



File - Send Link
must be moved to
Edit - Send Link

It has nothing to do with a file: Send LINK.

It's useless has we can find a similar menu in Services - Mail - Send Selection.
But people seems to want it, see Bug 146321
The argument that some Mailer don't have that Service is not a good argument to
add it to Chimera... those mailer had to add that Service, having a top menu
item just for that is quite strange !

Comment 1

[Sören 'Chucker' Kuklau (gone)]

Here we go again with the tabbed browsing issue. It should be obvious (though it
isn't to many Windows users ;-P ) that tabbed browsing implementations are
*always* a mess when it comes to User Interface Design.

> "In a file-based application that supports multiple views of THE SAME FILE,

Chimera doesn't, so this whole paragraph doesn't apply at all.

> you
> can include a Close File command below Close Window, to close a file and all
> its associated windows. If possible, include the filename in the menu (for
> example, Close File "Jerry's Kids").
> Shift-Command-W CAN BE USED as the keyboard equivalent for Close File."

Equivalently, adding a "Close Container" menu item with "Shift-Command-W" will
do. Except that the Container is really a Window, and its contents are Tabs. So
replace "Window" to "Tab" and "Container" to "Windows" in your mind, and we're
at Chimera's current stage again, except that the two menu items should be
turned around.

> Using "Shift-Command-W" for closing a window with tabs is inappropriate.
> Tabs are NOT views of the SAME file.
> 
> AHIG: "Shift-Command-W" is not mandatory used for "Close File"
> so we can use it for "Close Tab".

This won't work out right.

> Close Window/Tab "Document's name"
> If possible add the document name in the menu.

Neither Finder.app nor TextEdit.app do this. Also, pages' titles are often quite
long. And how would you call a window with multiple tabs?

> File - Open Location... Cmd-L
> must be moved to
> (Go - Home)
> (Go - Search Page   Shift-Cmd-F)
> Go - Location...    Cmd-L
> 
> It's rather a Go item like Home and Search Page.
> It will be more consistant in the Go menu.

In theory, yes. But users will expect it in the File Menu.

> The argument that some Mailer don't have that Service is not a good argument
> to add it to Chimera... those mailer had to add that Service, having a top
> menu item just for that is quite strange !

I agree. Application interaction like this is what Services are for.

-----

I do agree with the rest of your post. Therefore confirming. Lowering Severity
though.

Comment 2

[Kathleen :Brade]

-->sfraser

Comment 3

[Brad Kemper]

>> Go - Location...    Cmd-L
>> 
>> It's rather a Go item like Home and Search Page.
>> It will be more consistant in the Go menu.

>In theory, yes. But users will expect it in the File Menu.

I agree with the original poster on this. If you are going to have a "Go" menu,
then one would naturally expect to find "Go to Location" in that menu, not the
file menu (which is for files on a disk). I don't think people really look in
the file menu for "open location". They either click in the location bar or type
command-L. New users who are looking for the command would see the "Go" menu and
look there for a way to go to an arbitrary Web site.

I agree with "Open Recent" in the file menu (for files), and think there should
also be a "Go Recent" in the "Go" menu (for Web locations).

Using the Option key for "All" would certainly be good.

I agree with Chucker on the keyboard shortcuts for closing windows and tabs. The
HIG doesn't really cover tabs as files or locations. The
one-file-multiple-windows model is close enough to the one-window-multiple-files
model for Command=W to mean "Close Tab" (where you are closing one page,
regardless of if it is by itself in one window or in one tab) and
Shift-Command-W to mean "Close Window" (where you are closing multiple pages
associated with one window, instead of multiple pages associated with one file
in the HIG example).

Comment 4

[Stuart Morgan]

> Open File... => Open...
> Open... is the normal command to open a file, useless to specify "File" as it's
> the standard behavior, so we must use the standard menu item name "Open...".
> See below "Open Location...".

I disagree here: while Open... may be associated with files in most
applications, I don't think it's crystal clear what it means in a web browser. 
Ignoring how it's done (URL bar, menu, following a link, etc.), 99.9% of things
"Open"ed in a web browser are web pages.  Since opening a file is something
that's done far, far more by web developer than general users, it's very likely
that most users wouldn't even think of the concept that a web browser opens
files.  Web browsers are things that open "the internet".

Even if my 'numbers' are wrong, I don't think anyone can argue that everyone, or
even *most* people, would definitely expect Open in a web browser to open a
file; so long as that's true, the one extra word is a very very small price to
pay to clear up confusion (which is, ultimately, why the AAHIG exist).


Re: Close Window and Close Tab: I would go insane if Command-W closed the
window.  Tabs are, fundamentally, a bastardization of the AAHIG, and no amount
of changing shortcuts will change that.

The purpose of an interface is to be intuitive; often consistency helps (which
is the point of the AAHIG), but when it doesn't it's interface suicide to put
consistency (especially consistency of such an obscure nature) before usability.
Safari's adoptation of the same shortcuts is a demonstration that even Apple
recognizes this.

Comment 5

[Samuel Sidler (old account; do not CC)]

Bump.

Can we look at this pre-1.0 to "get it right". Users shouldn't have to go
through significant menu/shortcut changes post-1.0 (at least until the next
major release).

Comment 6

[Smokey Ardisson (offline for a while; not following bugs - do not email)]

WONTFIXING the remaining issues here per irc.

Comment 7

[Samuel Sidler (old account; do not CC)]

v.