User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.3a1pre) Gecko/20100125 BetterPrivacy-1.47 Minefield/3.7a1pre Build Identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.3a1pre) Gecko/20100125 BetterPrivacy-1.47 Minefield/3.7a1pre ID:20100125052940 I would like to request that Gecko's image handling be improved by deferring decoding of loaded images until they are first in view. I might be misunderstanding Gecko's mechanics, so please bear with me as I try to explain. Firefox has atrocious loading times and memory footprint when it comes to pages containing many medium to high resolution images. This in stark contrast to Chrome/WebKit. Compare loading the linked URL between the two browsers: the difference is enormous (my comparison at the bottom). If my assumption is correct, the problem is that Firefox (like IE) decodes images upon loading, instead of deferring decoding until the first time a give image needs to be displayed (like Chrome seems to be doing). The result for Firefox is very poor performance on many image-heavy sites -- especially where memory is already being swapped. I believe the WebKit approach makes a whole lot more sense. That a person visits an particular page does not mean the person is going to view everything on that page. Maybe the person is interested in only a few links or articles near the top. If the page is rife with images, all the memory and processing power Firefox expended to frustrate the user was for naught. The possible scrolling lag, for deferring decoding until first view, in comparison is quite low (compare Chrome). MEMORY CONSUMPTION COMPARISON (loading the linked URL): Minefield/3.7a1pre Gecko/20100125 (page load) --------------------------------------------- Process | PID |Pvt Memory |Working Set firefox.exe, 1516, 560.83 MB, 9.75 MB Chromium 4.0.299.0 (36331) (page load) -------------------------------------- Process | PID |Pvt Memory |Working Set chrome.exe, 376, 19.37 MB, 32.52 MB chrome.exe, 3488, 6.54 MB, 12.04 MB chrome.exe, 596, 8.78 MB, 14.72 MB chrome.exe, 3088, 86.8 MB, 86.18 MB chrome.exe, 772, 3.55 MB, 7.23 MB ------- TOTALS: 125.04 MB 152.69 MB Chrome 4.0.299.0 (36331)(after scrolling page up/down a couple of times) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Process | PID |Pvt Memory |Working Set chrome.exe, 376, 19.59 MB, 7.24 MB chrome.exe, 3488, 6.54 MB, 980 kB chrome.exe, 596, 8.78 MB, 968 kB chrome.exe, 3088, 358.6 MB, 37.16 MB chrome.exe, 772, 3.55 MB, 1,008 kB ------- TOTALS: 397.06 MB 47.356 MB As can be seen, the difference is quite stark. Firefox, like IE, sucks up all the memory it can, decoding every image into memory. Chrome uses a more efficient process. For all the memory management improvements made to Firefox thus far, this is Firefox's remaining areas of great weakness and is no doubt why many users complain of Firefox's "memory leak" (especially when coupled with the default fast-back cache setting that holds all that memory and allows the problem to grow out of hand, with each new page loaded). With many blogs having this pattern of being a media/image board, this is not an isolated issue. I run into this problem a lot, and so far Chrome is the only other browser I use (I don't use Opera, so can't comment, though legend has it...) that can handle such websites well. Thus, it is really easy to get Firefox to consume over 1 GB of RAM, with as little as two or three such blog pages, so improvements would be greatly appreciated. As I'm not verse in browser architecture, feel free to correct my ignorance. :-) Thanks Reproducible: Always Steps to Reproduce: 1. Launch Firefox and... 2. Load the linked URL: http://prawnkingold.blogspot.com/2008_04_01_archive.html 3. Compare with Google Chrome
This is what we've been calling "decode-on-draw", and it's what I spent all last summer implementing. Glad you're as excited about it as I am. ;-) In fact, it's already landed in mozilla-central, but it hasn't been turned on yet, because I didn't have time to get to the last 5% of work before I went back to school. I've been trying to chug through it, but progress is much slower now that I'm not working on it full time. I wasn't aware that chrome does this already - I'll have to investigate it further. Keep tabs on http://bholley.wordpress.com. I'll be blogging about it once I switch it on, and then I'd love to have your feedback. To see what's holding things up, search for the bugzilla whiteboard item "decode-on-draw".
Ooo. Very nice. Good to see there's much progress on this. Hopefully all the regressions noted for that bug can be ironed out in due time. Thanks.
For completion, here are Opera 10.5 Beta numbers: Opera 10.5 Build 3257 (page load) --------------------------------- Process | PID |Pvt Memory |Working Set opera.exe, 3400, 148.69 MB, 112.7 MB Opera 10.5 Build 3257 (after scrolling page up/down a couple of times) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Process | PID |Pvt Memory |Working Set opera.exe, 3400, 138.13 MB, 105.63 MB As you can see, Opera is incredibly efficient and fast.
I'm reopening this bug because bug 435296 does not do what this bug was requesting. The request is that images in the active tab not be decoded at all if they are not in view. This is how Webkit, Opera, and now IE 9 do it. Sure Firefox 4 has image discarding, but the image discarding does not always work properly, as many people have encountered and reported on the Mozillazine.org forums. Add to that the fact that the images have to be decoded first then discarded -- hardly efficient. As bug 573583 comment 3 stated, bug 435296 is concerned only with not decoding images in background tabs. But what about active/foreground tabs that constitute pages with many many high resolution images? And now that even Microsoft, with IE 9 handles image decoding efficiently, and on par with with other major browsers, I believe this is worth considering.
Note that if all you care about is decoding when the image comes into view, then bug 715308 will get you most of the way there. But we probably want to *stop* decoding images when they leave the viewport, in order to handle fast scrolling. In order to this, we'd need bug 689623.
One interesting use case relating to this: imagine you have a bunch of image-heavy tabs that you want to close. One way to do this is to hit ctrl-w repeatedly, or click on the foreground tab's 'X' repeatedly. Unfortunately, doing this briefly brings every one of those tabs into the foreground, so for a short time we start decoding all images in each tab again, which is a CPU and memory hit. This might not sound important, but in beta versions of areweslimyet.com (bug 704646) we're seeing that resident memory measurements taken just after closing 30 tabs are ~25% higher than they were just before closing them. This counter-intuitive result is largely due to image memory spiking. The usage disappears within 30 seconds and we drop to a much lower number, but it's still bad -- lots of CPU and memory churn, and there's a risk of OOMing.
It may be that we don't immediately drop images in closed tabs, or something nuts like that...
We don't do anything special about closed tabs. We should!
(In reply to Joe Drew (:JOEDREW!) from comment #8) > We don't do anything special about closed tabs. We should! Presumably we stop any decoding that's still in progress when the tab is closed, but it sounds like any already-decoded images just expire on the usual 10--20 second timer?
How about leaving the in view images of the last x viewed and not closed tabs decoded to speed up tab switching?
(In reply to Nicholas Nethercote [:njn] from comment #9) > Presumably we stop any decoding that's still in progress when the tab is > closed I don't even know if that's the case. I'd be unsurprised either way. >, but it sounds like any already-decoded images just expire on the > usual 10--20 second timer? Yep. (In reply to DB Cooper from comment #10) > How about leaving the in view images of the last x viewed and not closed > tabs decoded to speed up tab switching? We don't know what images are in view. Fixing that is bug 689623.
>> Presumably we stop any decoding that's still in progress when the tab is >> closed > > I don't even know if that's the case. I'd be unsurprised either way. I think bug 672578 might handle this, but I'm not sure.
This has now been implemented! See bug 689623 comment 155 for details. But it might need some tweaking. E.g. see bug 658790, which shows that pretty much all images on an image-heavy page can be decoded during loading.
I'm going to dup some other bugs to this one: - Bug 658790. It lists the following sites: http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?99988-Russian-Photos-%28updated-on-regular-basis%29/page2737 http://www.mapcrunch.com/gallery http://www.9-eyes.com/ http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2011/03/air-strikes-on-libya/100031/ I tested the militaryphotos.com one and found it quite a good test, giving ~250 MiB of decoded images at peak (see bug 658790 comment 3). - Bug 266111, which lists this site: http://web.archive.org/web/20060428001051/http://api.openoffice.org/docs/DevelopersGuide/Spreadsheet/Spreadsheet.htm I tested this too, and it also has ~250 MiB of decoded images at peak (see bug 266111 comment 11). FWIW, I found http://prawnkingold.blogspot.com/2008_04_01_archive.html to not be a very good test case. It doesn't have nearly as many images as the ones listed above.
> I tested the militaryphotos.com one and found it quite a good test, giving > ~250 MiB of decoded images at peak (see bug 658790 comment 3). > > I tested this too, and it also has ~250 MiB of decoded images at peak (see > bug 266111 comment 11). Ah, bug 791865 comment 5 says: > 250mb is the default maximum amount of decoded image data we'll willingly > keep around. Sometimes we're forced to keep around more than that, but > you're seeing here us hitting our max.
Another good test case: http://congressoamericano.blogspot.com/p/fotos-do-congresso-americano-iii.html With a pre-689623 build on Mac my resident climbs to 3 GiB, with images accounting for about 2.7 GiB. With a post-689623 build my resident climbed to 2.8 GiB before settling down to 650 MiB. So bug 689623 helped a bit in reducing the peak memory consumption at load time, but not a lot. > > I tested the militaryphotos.com one and found it quite a good test, giving > > ~250 MiB of decoded images at peak (see bug 658790 comment 3). > > > > I tested this too, and it also has ~250 MiB of decoded images at peak (see > > bug 266111 comment 11). I was wrong about this -- I didn't realize that we discard images above that 256 MiB limit immediately upon leaving the tab. So my measurements were flawed, because I was viewing about:memory in another tab. jlebar suggested opening about:memory in another window instead. After doing that, I see the militaryphotos.com site has 608 MiB of decoded images (in a pre-689623 build), and the openoffice.org one has 306 MiB.
Hey Nicholas, when I opened your first link Nightly never released memory until I actually scrolled the page. The page took almost 1 minute to load and I scrolled 30 seconds after. Memory did get released when I reloaded the page and the images got served from the cache.
(In reply to Nicholas Nethercote [:njn] from comment #18) > Another good test case: > http://congressoamericano.blogspot.com/p/fotos-do-congresso-americano-iii. > html I looked into this a little closer. The list of visible images starts out good, containing only a handful of images. The problem is that as the network requests for the remaining images come in we create the image frames for them, and when we create the frames we assume the images are visible until we next update the list of visible images.
(In reply to Timothy Nikkel (:tn) from comment #20) > (In reply to Nicholas Nethercote [:njn] from comment #18) > > Another good test case: > > http://congressoamericano.blogspot.com/p/fotos-do-congresso-americano-iii. > > html > > I looked into this a little closer. The list of visible images starts out > good, containing only a handful of images. The problem is that as the > network requests for the remaining images come in we create the image frames > for them, and when we create the frames we assume the images are visible > until we next update the list of visible images. Before there is any data for the images they still have frames but they aren't image frames, just placeholder loading frames.
Should I dupe bug 847223 here, or do you want to make this depend on that bug?
With bug 847223 landed, I've performed various test using various image-heavy sites sites, including those of comment 14 and bug 847223 comment 13. As far as I can tell, the fix is working very well -- both for initial loading and for decoding/discarding on scroll. Tested on Windows 8 with m-c cset 9366ee039645 Thanks for fixing this! \o/
Thanks for checking, IU! It took over 3.5 years, but we got there :)