Last Comment Bug 601079 - Build new system requirement page for HW acceleration in FF4.0
: Build new system requirement page for HW acceleration in FF4.0
Status: NEW
:
Product: www.mozilla.org
Classification: Other
Component: Pages & Content (show other bugs)
: unspecified
: All All
: -- normal
: ---
Assigned To: Nobody; OK to take it and work on it
: www-mozilla-com
:
Mentors:
http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/...
Depends on: 605053 627968 628129 635464 594877 595364 612007 623338 629265 635044 644787 693191
Blocks: firefox-sysreq
  Show dependency treegraph
 
Reported: 2010-10-01 01:57 PDT by Scoobidiver (away)
Modified: 2013-11-10 16:53 PST (History)
24 users (show)
See Also:
Locale:
QA Whiteboard:
Iteration: ---
Points: ---


Attachments

Description Scoobidiver (away) 2010-10-01 01:57:54 PDT
Until now, beta users that are looking for minimal HW requirement are redirected to the URL above that is specific to FF 3.6. In that page, there is no info about graphic cards.

Users must be informed of the minimal HW and driver requirement of their graphic card in order to have HW acceleration available in FF 4.0.
Comment 1 Scoobidiver (away) 2010-12-11 08:20:22 PST
Benoit,
Can you provide requested information?
Comment 2 Scoobidiver (away) 2011-01-22 00:01:38 PST
Here is my proposal for Windows:

To have full HW acceleration available:
* OS: Windows Vista, Windows Server 2008, Windows 7.
* Graphic cards:
NVIDIA : any cards with driver version 257.21 or above.
ATI/AMD: any cards with driver version 10.6 or above.
Intel  : G33, Q33, Q35, GMA 3150, GMA 500, Mobile 945GM Express Chipset families with the latest Intel driver version.
         B43, Q43, Q45, G41, G43, G45, Mobile 4 Series Express Chipset, HD graphics families with driver version 8.15.10.2202 or above.
Other cards: Not available by default.
Comment 3 Anurag Mishra 2011-01-22 03:54:48 PST
   Please note that HW Acceleration does not works on G33, as well as G965. The relevant bug for G965 is https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=604974.

   I am pretty much sure that HW is also not working on Q33, as it has similar GFX Architecture to G33.
Comment 4 Scoobidiver (away) 2011-01-22 05:19:29 PST
Comment 2 takes only into account the graphic driver blocklisting for D2D/D3D.
It must be refined according to min graphics HW requirements that I don't know.
Comment 5 Ed Morley [:emorley] 2011-01-24 15:51:17 PST
Would perhaps the ATI/NVIDIA phrase "any cards with..." from comment 2, actually be better as "any DirectX 9 or higher cards...", seeing as Dx8 and below aren't supported?
Comment 6 Scoobidiver (away) 2011-01-31 06:50:18 PST
> Would perhaps the ATI/NVIDIA phrase "any cards with..." from comment 2,
> actually be better as "any DirectX 9 or higher cards...", seeing as Dx8 and
> below aren't supported?
This page must be accessible to all users. How many users know their GPU DirectX version? In addition, the required min driver version implicates that the GPU directX version is higher or equal than 9.

> It must be refined according to min graphics HW requirements that I don't 
> know.
Here they are: 4096x4096 textures, DX9/10.
The min texture size add these restrictions:
* NVIDIA: at least NVIDIA 7 series
* ATI: at least ATI X1xxx or 6xxx series
* Intel: at least GMA 500 or GMA X3000 (SM 3.0 HW, http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/intel-gma-3000-and-x3000-developers-guide/, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_GMA#Specifications)

So comment 2 becomes:
To have full HW acceleration available:
* OS: Windows Vista, Windows Server 2008, Windows 7.
* Graphic cards:
NVIDIA : any cards with driver version 257.21 or above.
ATI/AMD: any cards with driver version 10.6 or above.
Intel  : GMA 500, 600 with the latest Intel driver version.
         B43, Q43, Q45, G41, G43, G45, Mobile 4 Series Express Chipset, HD
graphics families with driver version 8.15.10.2202 or above.
Other cards: Not available by default.

Note:
If bug 627968 is not going to be fixed, remove GMA 600.
If bug 628129 is not going to be fixed, a line about dual GPUs that does not support HW acceleration must be added.
Comment 7 Ed Morley [:emorley] 2011-01-31 07:12:41 PST
(In reply to comment #6)
> This page must be accessible to all users. How many users know their GPU
> DirectX version? In addition, the required min driver version implicates that
> the GPU directX version is higher or equal than 9.

Fair point.

On a different note, the 6200 will be blocked in/due to bug 612007, so:
"NVIDIA : any cards with driver version 257.21 or above."
...presumably needs to be adjusted to exclude the 6200 and any other cards that have been blocklisted in a similar manner.

Note: I'm using 260.99 with the 6200, so saying just "driver version 257.21 or above" isn't enough to indicate this card is excluded.
Comment 8 [Baboo] 2011-01-31 14:58:35 PST
What a about the maximal resolution for hardware acceleration?
Comment 9 James May [:fowl] 2011-01-31 15:42:54 PST
(In reply to comment #6)
> Here they are: 4096x4096 textures, DX9/10.
> The min texture size add these restrictions:
> * NVIDIA: at least NVIDIA 7 series

6 Series cards are DX9c which requires a minimum maximum texture size of 4096x4096 (and Works on My Machine (tm))
Comment 10 Scoobidiver (away) 2011-02-01 02:22:07 PST
> What a about the maximal resolution for hardware acceleration?
I don't think there is a min or max display resolution requirement for hardware acceleration.

> 6 Series cards are DX9c which requires a minimum maximum texture size of
> 4096x4096 (and Works on My Machine (tm))
OK. But this does not change the proposal in comment 6 as GeForce 5FX series (below 6 Series) are legacy GPUs that don't support 257.21.
6200TC is an exception that should be added.
Comment 11 [Baboo] 2011-02-01 04:49:06 PST
(In reply to comment #10)
> > What a about the maximal resolution for hardware acceleration?
> I don't think there is a min or max display resolution requirement for hardware
> acceleration.
> 
What's when the vertical or horizontal resolution is higher than the maximal texture size?
Comment 12 Benoit Jacob [:bjacob] (mostly away) 2011-02-01 05:28:15 PST
(In reply to comment #11)
> (In reply to comment #10)
> > > What a about the maximal resolution for hardware acceleration?
> > I don't think there is a min or max display resolution requirement for hardware
> > acceleration.
> > 
> What's when the vertical or horizontal resolution is higher than the maximal
> texture size?

Need to ask layers gurus (Roc...) about that. Not sure if it's a matter of display size or browser window size or images size.
Comment 13 Helder "Lthere" Magalhães 2011-02-01 10:36:33 PST
(In reply to comment #6)
> So comment 2 becomes:
> To have full HW acceleration available:
> * OS: Windows Vista, Windows Server 2008, Windows 7.
> * Graphic cards:
[...]
> Intel  : GMA 500, 600 with the latest Intel driver version.
>          B43, Q43, Q45, G41, G43, G45, Mobile 4 Series Express Chipset, HD
> graphics families with driver version 8.15.10.2202 or above.

Correction: Vista and some (all?) Intel device drivers don't cope well (see bug 605053). ;-)

At least, "Mobile 4 Series Express Chipset" (bug 605053 comment 23) and "HD Graphics" (bug 605053 comment 26) - both probably due to incomplete drivers (bug 605053 comment 22) on Windows Vista *only* - Windows 7 works fine.
Comment 14 Joe Drew (not getting mail) 2011-02-01 10:54:31 PST
(In reply to comment #12)
> (In reply to comment #11)
> > (In reply to comment #10)
> > > > What a about the maximal resolution for hardware acceleration?
> > > I don't think there is a min or max display resolution requirement for hardware
> > > acceleration.
> > > 
> > What's when the vertical or horizontal resolution is higher than the maximal
> > texture size?
> 
> Need to ask layers gurus (Roc...) about that. Not sure if it's a matter of
> display size or browser window size or images size.

We can't draw into a window that's bigger than the maximum texture size. I'm not sure right now whether Firefox will fall back to software in that case.
Comment 15 Scoobidiver (away) 2011-02-01 14:11:54 PST
> What's when the vertical or horizontal resolution is higher than the maximal
> texture size?
There is currently no monitor that singly displays at these levels (higher than 4096x4096).See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WQSXGA#Hyper-extended_graphics_array
Comment 16 Scoobidiver (away) 2011-02-24 11:54:53 PST
Here is another attempt (Windows only):

To have full HW acceleration available:
* OS: Windows Vista, Windows Server 2008, Windows 7.
* Graphic cards:
. NVIDIA : any cards with driver version 257.21 or above.
. ATI/AMD: any cards with driver version 10.6 or above.
. Intel (on Windows 7 and Server 2008):
         GMA 500, 600 with graphics driver version 5.0.0.2026 or above.
         B43, Q43, Q45, G41, G43, G45, Mobile 4 Series Express Chipset, HD
graphics families with graphics driver version 8.15.10.2202 or above.
. Other cards: Not available by default.

Graphics driver blocklist:
. GMA 600, all graphics version driver versions. Reason: new card not tested (see bug 627968)
. NVIDIA 6200TC, all graphics driver versions. Reason: black & white horizontal bars/glitches in page content area when scrolling (see bug 612007)
. Intel GPU if dual GPUs, all graphics driver versions. Reason: graphics driver version numbering not compliant with Intel's one (see bug 628129)
. Any Graphics driver in https://wiki.mozilla.org/Blocklisting/Blocked_Graphics_Drivers
Comment 17 [Baboo] 2011-02-24 14:23:13 PST
(In reply to comment #14)
> 
> We can't draw into a window that's bigger than the maximum texture size. I'm
> not sure right now whether Firefox will fall back to software in that case.

bug 609041 comment 8

(In reply to comment #16)
> Here is another attempt (Windows only):
> 
> To have full HW acceleration available:
"full" means D3D10 + D2D?

> . Any Graphics driver in
> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Blocklisting/Blocked_Graphics_Drivers
I get only D3D9 acceleration on a NVIDIA GeForce Go 7300 (10de:01d7) with driver version 259.47 on Win7 but it's not listed there.

Maybe it should be mentioned somewhere that no D2D implies no D3D10.
Comment 18 Scoobidiver (away) 2011-02-24 14:56:28 PST
> I get only D3D9 acceleration on a NVIDIA GeForce Go 7300 (10de:01d7) with
> driver version 259.47 on Win7 but it's not listed there.
No bug, no description.

> "full" means D3D10 + D2D?
Yes.

> Maybe it should be mentioned somewhere that no D2D implies no D3D10.
Wrong.

In an overall reply to comment 17
This page is not a KB support article. Do your article proposal in https://support.mozilla.com/en-US/forums/knowledge-base-articles
Comment 19 Benoit Jacob [:bjacob] (mostly away) 2011-03-02 14:01:26 PST
I have been adding also the compiled-in blacklist info to 
https://wiki.mozilla.org/Blocklisting/Blocked_Graphics_Driver

(In reply to comment #16)
> Here is another attempt (Windows only):
> 
> To have full HW acceleration available:
> * OS: Windows Vista, Windows Server 2008, Windows 7.
> * Graphic cards:
> . NVIDIA : any cards with driver version 257.21 or above.
> . ATI/AMD: any cards with driver version 10.6 or above.
> . Intel (on Windows 7 and Server 2008):
>          GMA 500, 600 with graphics driver version 5.0.0.2026 or above.
>          B43, Q43, Q45, G41, G43, G45, Mobile 4 Series Express Chipset, HD
> graphics families with graphics driver version 8.15.10.2202 or above.
> . Other cards: Not available by default.
> 
> Graphics driver blocklist:
> . GMA 600, all graphics version driver versions. Reason: new card not tested
> (see bug 627968)

Unknown devices are allowed by default, not blocked by default.
(On the other hand, unknown _vendors_ are blocked by default).

> . NVIDIA 6200TC, all graphics driver versions. Reason: black & white 

Added.

> . Intel GPU if dual GPUs, all graphics driver versions. Reason: graphics driver
> version numbering not compliant with Intel's one (see bug 628129)

Well, in certain cases only. Blocking only occurs when:
 * either the registry is self-inconsistent, in that it reports the Intel vendor ID and the other non-Intel driver version;
 * or the main GPU reported in the registry is the Intel GPU, and the Intel driver was mis-installed, which is something we block anyway regardless of dual-GPU.

(Right?)
Comment 20 Scoobidiver (away) 2011-03-02 15:06:22 PST
> (Right?)
Almost correct because even if the registry is self inconsistent, if it is not the used GPU while you start Firefox, it is not blocklisted and as a consequence Firefox crashes after the GPU switching (bug 635464).
Comment 21 Scoobidiver (away) 2011-04-11 10:23:41 PDT
bug 644787 should replace bug 612007 in https://wiki.mozilla.org/Blocklisting/Blocked_Graphics_Drivers.
Comment 22 Benoit Jacob [:bjacob] (mostly away) 2011-04-11 10:27:35 PDT
(In reply to comment #21)
> bug 644787 should replace bug 612007 in
> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Blocklisting/Blocked_Graphics_Drivers.

Done
Comment 23 Fernando Hartmann 2011-06-20 09:24:23 PDT
The HW acceleration of my Intel(R) G45/G43 Express Chipset was disabled by my last FF 5 beta update, see (about:support bellow). It was enabled before may last beta update, is this suppose to happen ? I didn't find any bug for this.


Graphics
Adapter Description Intel(R) G45/G43 Express Chipset
Vendor ID8086
Device ID2e22
Adapter RAM Unknown
Adapter Drivers igdumdx32 igd10umd32
Driver Version8.15.10.2302
Driver Date2-11-2011
Direct2D Enabled false
DirectWrite Enabled false (6.1.7601.17563, font cache n/a)
WebGL Renderer Google Inc. -- ANGLE -- OpenGL ES 2.0 (ANGLE 0.0.0.611)
GPU Accelerated Windows 0/1
Comment 24 Benoit Jacob [:bjacob] (mostly away) 2011-06-20 10:15:30 PDT
This was not supposed to happen. Can you please paste the 'modified preferences' section of about:support. Can you please try resetting any gfx.blacklist.* preference to see if it solves your problem.
Comment 25 Fernando Hartmann 2011-06-20 12:06:11 PDT
I found no entries in about:config with gfx.blacklist.* name

Bellow Modified preferences section


 Modified Preferences
      Name
      Value
        accessibility.typeaheadfind.flashBar
        0
        browser.history_expire_days.mirror
        180
        browser.history_expire_days_min
        180
        browser.link.open_newwindow.restriction
        0
        browser.places.importBookmarksHTML
        false
        browser.places.importDefaults
        false
        browser.places.leftPaneFolderId
        -1
        browser.places.migratePostDataAnnotations
        false
        browser.places.smartBookmarksVersion
        2
        browser.places.updateRecentTagsUri
        false
        browser.startup.homepage
        about:blank
        browser.startup.homepage_override.buildID
        20110615151330
        browser.startup.homepage_override.mstone
        rv:5.0
        browser.tabs.closeButtons
        3
        browser.tabs.loadFolderAndReplace
        false
        browser.tabs.warnOnClose
        false
        browser.zoom.siteSpecific
        false
        dom.disable_window_move_resize
        true
        extensions.lastAppVersion
        5.0
        font.internaluseonly.changed
        true
        font.name.fantasy.x-western
        Arial
        font.name.monospace.x-western
        Courier
        general.useragent.extra.microsoftdotnet
        ( .NET CLR 3.5.30729)
        mozilla.widget.render-mode
        -1
        network.IDN_show_punycode
        true
        network.cookie.prefsMigrated
        true
        places.database.lastMaintenance
        1308577317
        places.history.expiration.transient_current_max_pages
        95535
        places.last_vacuum
        1279118643
        privacy.cpd.cookies
        false
        privacy.cpd.downloads
        false
        privacy.cpd.formdata
        false
        privacy.cpd.history
        false
        privacy.cpd.sessions
        false
        privacy.sanitize.migrateFx3Prefs
        true
        security.OCSP.URL
        security.OCSP.signingCA
        Builtin Object Token:Verisign Class 1 Public Primary OCSP Responder
        security.enable_java
        true
        security.warn_viewing_mixed
        false
Comment 26 Fernando Hartmann 2011-06-20 12:39:34 PDT
I restarted the computer then the HW acceleration came back !

 Graphics
        Adapter Description
        Intel(R) G45/G43 Express Chipset
        Vendor ID
        8086
        Device ID
        2e22
        Adapter RAM
        Unknown
        Adapter Drivers
        igdumdx32 igd10umd32
        Driver Version
        8.15.10.2302
        Driver Date
        2-11-2011
        Direct2D Enabled
        true
        DirectWrite Enabled
        true (6.1.7601.17563, font cache n/a)
        WebGL Renderer
        Google Inc. -- ANGLE -- OpenGL ES 2.0 (ANGLE 0.0.0.611)
        GPU Accelerated Windows
        1/1 Direct3D 10
Comment 27 Benoit Jacob [:bjacob] (mostly away) 2011-06-20 12:40:30 PDT
Does the bug persist with a new profile? Type a command line like this:

   firefox -P -no-remote
Comment 28 Benoit Jacob [:bjacob] (mostly away) 2011-06-20 12:40:54 PDT
oh ok :-)
Comment 29 Fernando Hartmann 2011-07-25 18:24:42 PDT
I did the upgrade to FF 6 b3 and the problem started again, my 945GM driver is blocked running Windows Vista. I already restarted my computer and created a new profile, and the problem persist, bellow my about:support 




  Application Basics

        Name
        Firefox

        Version
        6.0

        User Agent
        Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0

        Profile Directory

          Open Containing Folder

        Enabled Plugins

          about:plugins

        Build Configuration

          about:buildconfig

  Extensions

        Name

        Version

        Enabled

        ID

        Feedback
        1.1.2
        true
        testpilot@labs.mozilla.com

        Microsoft .NET Framework Assistant
        0.0.0
        true
        {20a82645-c095-46ed-80e3-08825760534b}

        Java Console
        6.0.21
        false
        {CAFEEFAC-0016-0000-0021-ABCDEFFEDCBA}

        Java Console
        6.0.23
        false
        {CAFEEFAC-0016-0000-0023-ABCDEFFEDCBA}

        Java Console
        6.0.24
        false
        {CAFEEFAC-0016-0000-0024-ABCDEFFEDCBA}

        Java Console
        6.0.25
        false
        {CAFEEFAC-0016-0000-0025-ABCDEFFEDCBA}

        Java Console
        6.0.26
        false
        {CAFEEFAC-0016-0000-0026-ABCDEFFEDCBA}

  Modified Preferences

      Name

      Value

        browser.places.smartBookmarksVersion
        2

        browser.startup.homepage_override.buildID
        20110721152715

        browser.startup.homepage_override.mstone
        rv:6.0

        extensions.lastAppVersion
        6.0

        network.cookie.prefsMigrated
        true

        places.history.expiration.transient_current_max_pages
        64088

        privacy.sanitize.migrateFx3Prefs
        true

  Graphics

        Adapter Description
        Mobile Intel(R) 945 Express Chipset Family

        Vendor ID
        8086

        Device ID
        27a2

        Adapter RAM
        Unknown

        Adapter Drivers
        igdumd32

        Driver Version
        7.14.10.1504

        Driver Date
        6-18-2008

        Direct2D Enabled
        Blocked for your graphics driver version.

        DirectWrite Enabled
        false (7.0.6002.18409)

        ClearType Parameters
        ClearType parameters not found

        WebGL Renderer
        Google Inc. -- ANGLE -- OpenGL ES 2.0 (ANGLE 0.0.0.686)

        GPU Accelerated Windows
        0/1
Comment 30 Scoobidiver (away) 2011-07-26 02:24:04 PDT
Fernando, you don't use the same computer, this one has an obsolete Vista graphics driver that it is blocked.
In the future, for that kind of problem, use the support forum instead: https://support.mozilla.com/en-US/questions/new
Comment 31 Fernando Hartmann 2011-07-26 04:35:47 PDT
Ok, I just wondered because this driver wasn't blocked in previous FF versions, and a didn't found any bug here commenting/documenting this decision .
Comment 32 Benoit Jacob [:bjacob] (mostly away) 2011-07-26 05:54:11 PDT
@ Scoobidiver: his chip is in the "GMA 950" family, and on Vista, according to your table that we still use (since Firefox 4) for blacklisting, the minimum required version is 7.14.10.1504, exactly the version he has. So it's not clear to me why he's getting blacklisted.

@ Fernando: the fact that it's intermitten could be either a bug in the driver, or on our side. Have you tried updating this driver? Does this make a difference?
Comment 33 Benoit Jacob [:bjacob] (mostly away) 2011-07-26 05:56:33 PDT
Oh but Scoobidiver is right that this is a different computer with a different GPU.

So the last thing to understand is why you're not getting acceleration on the Intel GMA 945. Do we even know that acceleration works on such an old Intel chip? For sure it would have to emulate some features like vertex shaders in software.
Comment 34 Fernando Hartmann 2011-07-26 08:07:03 PDT
(In reply to comment #32)
> @ Fernando: the fact that it's intermitten could be either a bug in the
> driver, or on our side. 

In fact the previous problem reported by me happened on other computer (sorry by the confusion, my bad :-( ). The fist problem (Intel(R) G45/G43 Express Chipset) doesn't happened any more.

The second problem (computer) isn't intermittent, it started with FF 6, with FF before V6, GMA 950 has HW acceleration enabled.

> Have you tried updating this driver? Does this make a difference?

Version 7.14.10.1504 is the last version available for the driver, so I will try to reinstall it, and post here the results.
Comment 35 Fernando Hartmann 2011-08-06 05:25:04 PDT
When I updated to FF 6 b4 some parameters changed now Direct Write is enabled, bud Direct2D continues blocked.


Graphics

        Adapter Description
        Mobile Intel(R) 945 Express Chipset Family

        Vendor ID
        8086

        Device ID
        27a2

        Adapter RAM
        Unknown

        Adapter Drivers
        igdumd32

        Driver Version
        7.14.10.1504

        Driver Date
        6-18-2008

        Direct2D Enabled
        Blocked for your graphics driver version.

        DirectWrite Enabled
        true (7.0.6002.18409)

        ClearType Parameters
        ClearType parameters not found

        WebGL Renderer
        Google Inc. -- ANGLE -- OpenGL ES 2.0 (ANGLE 0.0.0.686)

        GPU Accelerated Windows
        0/1
Comment 36 Terrell Kelley 2012-07-13 12:25:13 PDT
With Windows 8, a lot of these old graphics cards are getting new drivers from Microsoft. You may want to retest. Especially since some proposed changes are actually going to slow down software rendering, so we need to get as many people on hardware rendering as possible.

If Windows 8 can accelerate my card--including Internet Explorer, I don't see why Firefox can't.

Note You need to log in before you can comment on or make changes to this bug.