Play custom sound when new mail arrives (implement hidden prefs and design UI)

RESOLVED FIXED in mozilla1.2beta


19 years ago
11 years ago


(Reporter: sspitzer, Assigned: sspitzer)



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(3 attachments, 14 obsolete attachments)

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I assigning this to you ryan, I hope that is ok.

we've got three prefs:


only the first is currently reflected in the ui.  let me attach a screen shot of
what ryan is working on in his tree.
sfraser and mpt suggest that we use the system sound for new mail, instead of
allowing the user to pick there own within our application.

I'm starting to lean that way for win32 and mac.  But UNIX doesn't have
something like that.

ryan, keep going with your UI work.  it might turn out to only be used on
platforms that don't have system sounds.
> But UNIX doesn't have something like that.

GNOME does have OS-wide sound prefs. See Control Panel (I have a localized
version, so no screenshots). I don't see an OS-wide entry for "new mail", but
these are under the apps, e.g. PopApp* -> New Mail. *a biff
Since several sounds are likely to be kept in the same directory, perhaps the UI 
could look like this:

    [/] Play _sound when a message arrives: [  trumpet    :^] ( _Other ... )

The popup menu would list all sound files (with suffixes removed) which were 
present in the same directory as the currently selected sound. The `Other ...' 
button would allow selection of a sound file in a different directory.
                                            |  antelope     |
                                            |  crash        |
                                            |  glass        |
    [/] Play _sound when a message arrives: |* trumpet      | ( _Other ... )
                                            |  yawn      |\ |

This would also allow for easier previewing of the sound: instead of having to 
open and close the filepicker in order for Mozilla to play the sound, you could 
just re-select it in the popup menu.


19 years ago
Keywords: helpwanted
Hardware: PC → All

Comment 5

19 years ago
We already have completion devices.  Windows makes location bars completion 
devices, so we could have:

    [/] Play _sound when a message arrives <preview>
[ drive/path/file.wav                                 ] <browse>
Thee user can then remove file.wav and receive a completion list.

OTOH. everyone else is leaning towards os support. Windows has a sounds control 
panel, and any app can register sounds that can be configured with it.  Since 
MacOS and gnome have that (i hope gnome has it as part of gtk and not part of 
gnome) then this probably makes the most sense.
> i hope gnome has it as part of gtk and not part of gnome

It's *GNOME*, not GTK.

Comment 7

19 years ago
then that won't do, since we require gtk but we should not require gnome.
Sure we shouldn't require GNOME, but we have no obligation to support each
feature everywhere. IMO, pointing these users to prefs.js is ok.

BTW: KDE might have similar prefs.
Eventually we can put the stuff which the platform already has a GUI for into a 
general `MozConfig' utility, which reads/writes the platform's Internet 
settings on Mac/Windows/GNOME/KDE (where such settings exist). But for now 
duplication of the platform settings is ok.

Meanwhile, for accessibility reasons, we need to provide for more than just 
sound ...
+-When new mail arrives:-----------------------------+
| [/] Flash icon                                     | <-- not on Linux/Unix yet
| [ ] Display alert                                  |
| [/] Play _sound: [  trumpet    :^] ( _Other ... )  |
I don't like the idea of the user having to choose sound files on disk. Mac users 
won't have a clue about where to find sound files that they can play, and 
probably won't have any anyway. Also, what formats would we support? AIFF? WAV? 
etc etc.

If you are going to offer a choice of sounds, throw some WAV files into a jar 
file, and give the user a popup menu to choose from the available ones, like AIM 
Formats available for playing is covered by bug 11972. Filed bug 65053 about 
allowing Mac users to use any of the sounds from the System file (Sosumi, Purr, 
Indigo, Temple, et al).
adding dependency.

ryan, feel free to give this bug back to gayatrib or me until we finish figuring
out what we are going to do.
Blocks: 65053

Comment 13

19 years ago
maybe a radio button to select:
 <> use sound defined by operating system (default)
 <> select sound: <curren dir :^> <Browse...> <Preview Sound>

So the whole thing could look like (apologies for the plagiarism):

+- When new mail arrives: --------------------------------------------+
|   [x] Flash icon in Toolbar                                         |
|        <> Load at startup of Operating System (default)             |
|        <> Load only when Mozilla is running                         |
|   [ ] Display alert Window                                          |
|   [x] Play _sound:                                                  |
|        <> use sound defined by operating system (default)           |
|        <> select sound: <current dir :^> <Browse...> <Preview Sound>|

Of course the play sound option (and selecting a sound) could be implemented
first to get this thing going. The others could be put into prefs and greyed out
until implemented.

The flashing icon could be a separate app that could be loaded at startup (very
cool since mozilla wouldn't have to be running all the time).

Comment 14

19 years ago
Ryan, to play the default alert sound on mac, just do: SysBeep(30);
and be sure to include the <sound.h> header from the mac toolbox.

Also, what is the progress here? How long 'til we will see this checked in?
this isn't a high priority item, so not much has been done on this.

when people get cycles, we'll probably settle on a design, post it to
n.p.m.mail-news for review, and then go implement it.

marking future.
Target Milestone: --- → Future

Comment 16

18 years ago
it would be nice to ship a product without that annoying default "beep" biff
sound and some way to change it.
As far as Mozilla goes, they can always checkin the wav file I attached to bug
67634. Jon, feel free to checkin that file (I don't have CVS write access, and I
don't think Marlon will be able to get to the sound file for Mozilla anytime
soon.)  For Netscape, I think Kevin Murray is exploring professional
possibilites for nsbeta1, but these issues belong in bug 67634.
until we have a UI (which may be a while), I've checked in a back door.

the default sound url is now a pref.  you could change it like so:


this should make the mac users happier.

taking this bug from ryan for now.
Assignee: rcassin → sspitzer
Blocks: 74644

Comment 20

18 years ago
*** Bug 84858 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Comment 21

18 years ago
My 2 cents, you shouldn't support esd (gnome) or arts (kde) sound architecture.
It's a very bad idea, sure it may be easier to code, but then you would lose all
users that do not use those wm, instead just send sound to /dev/dsp

Comment 22

18 years ago
esd isn't Gnome specific. It's actually the "enlightenment sound daemon" but 
runs perfectly well all on it's own - independent of GUI environment or WM.

Comment 23

18 years ago
That's not the issue here, the issue is that mozilla should not use "propietary"
sound arquitectures because they only work in their native environment (ok ok,
esd plays everywhere) but rather send sounds to /dev/dsp so ANY linux user can
play sounds whatever they are using
I really like the suggestion that Peter Lario has made above.

BTW, what happened with the "Mail Notification" app which was present on
communicator, isn't Moz going to implement a similar app? For me it was very useful.

Comment 25

18 years ago
I'm jumping into the discussion late here, but is there anything that can be
"borrowed" from commercial tree's UI instant messenger prefs? I'm thinking
mostly of the code and graphics for playing each AIM sound from a button.

Comment 26

18 years ago
*** Bug 101050 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
I think the right thing to do here is to defer to the os.

windows has a "New Mail Notification" sound (that the user can configure using 
the control panel)

mac has internet config, where they can configure the sound on new mail.

not sure about linux (beos, etc) but there has to be something.

I don't think it is smart to add a XP sound picker UI to the mailnew prefs, 
when for most users (windows, mac) the OS already has this picker for you.

here's what I want to do:

On new mail, if the "play sound when mail arrives" is checked, we play the OS 
sound.  I'll extend the nsISound interface to have playSystemSound().  in this 
case, we'd call it with "Mailbeep" or something.

the various platforms implementations of this interface (use lxr and search for 
for nsSound.cpp) can take "Mailbeep" and "do the right thing".

for platforms that don't have a system sound, we can use the existing code that 
allows for users to configure using a pref.

I've got this working on windows, I'll attach a patch.
Target Milestone: Future → mozilla0.9.6
*** Bug 65053 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
for mac, I think I can do this:

nsSound::PlaySystemSound(const char *aSoundAlias)
  if (!nsCRT::strcmp("Mailbeep",aSoundAlias)) {
    // get the nsIInternetConfigService

    nsXPIDLCString newMailSound;
    nsresult rv = icService->GetString(eICString_NewMailSoundName, getter_Copies

    // play newMailSound;
  return NS_OK;
Attachment #21932 - Attachment is obsolete: true
Summary: complete "play sound when new mail arrives" pref UI. → play OS specified sound for new mail
fix landed, so this works for windows now.

r=pavlov, sr=bienvenu.

I'll keep this open while I work on the mac.

as far as linux goes, see bug #99898


18 years ago
QA Contact: nbaca → sheelar

Comment 32

18 years ago
This bug was and should continue to be for UI to control *which* sound
(including the OS default) is played when mail arrives.

The plain ability to play only the default OS sound should be a *NEW* bug.
Please change the summary back to what it was and make this bug dependent on the
new one. (or am I overlooking something here?)

Comment 33

18 years ago
I second Peter's remark. See also my comment on bug 64462. It was possible for
some time to have a different sound for Mozilla mail than the default one. If
two mail clients were open at the same time (in my case mine and my wife's), it
was clear from the sound who received the mail.

Seth, please unmorph the bug to the shape it was until yesterday.
> I second Peter's remark. See also my comment on bug 64462. It was possible for
> some time to have a different sound for Mozilla mail than the default one. If
> two mail clients were open at the same time (in my case mine and my wife's), it
> was clear from the sound who received the mail.

this makes no sense.  on two different machines?

have no plans on morphing this bug back.  I also think it's the right decision
to rely on the operation system for the sound.  we don't need to duplicate UI in
our app that properly lives outside it.  (that the same reason we don't have a
volume control inside of mozilla either.)

I asked the bug reporter, and he was ok with me morphing his bug.

if you want another bug, feel free to log it.

Comment 36

18 years ago
> this makes no sense.  on two different machines?

Of course on one machine. One Mozilla user and one whatever user (in the case of
my wife it was Netscape 4.78). The pC is always on. Can you tell me how can I
know now by the sound who received new mail?

You killed off one of the best features of Mozilla mail. I know that it did not
woek for some weeks, anyway. But I hoped it will be back soon.

Comment 37

18 years ago
[x] Play sound when mail arrives
  [o] Use system default sound
  [.] Another sound [Pick...] 

Comment 38

18 years ago
The point is that he can choose whatever sound he want to use as "another 
sound" from his operating system's control panel instead of us duplicating that 
> for platforms that don't have a system sound, we can use the existing code that 
> allows for users to configure using a pref.

I don't understand. How would I set the sound on Linux?

While the change makde was definitely an improvement, I agree that the bug
should be restored. Not only for Unix OSes, but also because the OS Mailbeep
prefs is the most favorite and most-observed of the sound prefs. Many apps use
it. I'm not sure, but I think that ICQ and similar apps even use it, basically
everything where human-human messages might go in (not just email). It is not
too hard to get into a situation where one wants to have different sounds for
different apps. That's why observing the OS default is very reasonable, but
offering a custom way to override it is, too.

Comment 40

18 years ago
The point was made that you might have more than one profile and legitimate
reasons to set a different sound to play for each one.

Surely it wouldn't be that difficult to boil all this down into a couple of prefs?

Comment 41

18 years ago
But the case of having multiple profiles set up and running seems pretty
uncommon to me to warrant having this additional UI.  99% of the time, people
are going to be happy with the OS sound.  There's currently a hidden pref for
this.  If someone wants to make this work, then go for it, but I don't think it
needs to be exposed in the UI.

Comment 42

18 years ago
As far as I understand Seth's comment on bug 99898, the hidden pref is oficially
dead since this morning. That is exactly main complain. And having two
mail/messaging programs open at the same time is not that uncommon. You are
lucky if the other one allows you to change the sound from the OS default. In my
case the other mail program is Netscape 4.78 which does not allow this. Neither
does Mozilla not (if I understand "these prefs are definitely broken now" right).

Comment 43

18 years ago
yes, the hidden pref is currently dead.  Seth isn't going to fix it.  But if
someone else wanted to make it work, they probably could.
sfraser, there's the start of my fix to get this working on the mac.

it works, but it't complete.  (nothing is disposing of the snd channel yet)

I'll wait until your fix for #100472 lands before I finish it.
Depends on: 100472
if someone wants to add these hidden prefs back, here's what they should do:

boolean, "mail.biff.play_sound" (exists already)
boolean, "mail.biff.sound_type" (0 = OS, 1 = sound alias, 2 = url to .wav file)
string, "mail.biff.sound" (url to .wav, or sound alias, like "Quack", "Droplet")

we'd default mail.biff.sound_type to 0, 

the defaults go in mailnews.js, and the code would go in 
nsStatusBarBiffManager.cpp (similar code to what I backed out last night).

if we ever got a real biff sound and put it in our messenger.jar, we could 
default mail.biff.sound_type to 2 on linux, and use the chrome url for 

as far as doing UI for all this, it is non trivial, and varies per platform.  
(you'd need to write platform specific overlays.  especially the mac where we'd 
have a picker for the system sounds.  (see #65053).

I have no plans to do the UI, I've got other bugs to fix.
restoring old summary.

moving to the future.  this bug will cover the hidden prefs and the UI work.

before someone starts hacking on the UI, post a design so we can review it.

if someone adds back the hidden pref support, I'll review the patch.
Summary: play OS specified sound for new mail → implement hidden prefs and design UI for "play sound when new mail arrives"
Target Milestone: mozilla0.9.6 → Future
Tweaking SUMMARY to let "play sound" appear at the beginning.
Summary: implement hidden prefs and design UI for "play sound when new mail arrives" → Play custom sound when new mail arrives (implement hidden prefs and design UI)
No longer depends on: 100472

Comment 50

18 years ago
There is no purpose in restoring the hidden prefs, and certainly no reason for
additional UI. We are respecting the OS setting, the correct thing to do. I
recommend closing this.

Comment 51

18 years ago
Jennifer, can you comment on the request to restore the old prefs and UI for
them?  I don't see the rationale in allowing the user to depart from his system
setting in the context of one app, and it doesn't seem like our place to allow
that.  If you agree, please mark wontfix (Seth is okay with it if you are).
I agree with blake.

I spoke with jglick, and she also agrees.

our users can use the OS system sound on windows and mac 
(linux is covered by #104174).

adding prefs and UI to allow the user to override the system sound would be
bloat that we don't want and don't need.

marking WONTFIX.
Last Resolved: 18 years ago
Resolution: --- → WONTFIX
Again, how are Linux users supposed to change the sound? Editing prefs.js does
not count.

Comment 54

18 years ago
I ought to point out that this also affects Windows 95 retail (the only Windows
that doesnt have Internet Explorer & Outlook preinstalled). The New Mail
notification sound simply does not exist in this version of windows unless you
have installed an M$ e-mail client first.

However, that being said, as long there is a working pref I can put in my
prefs.js, I can live without the GUI.
*** Bug 99898 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
No longer blocks: 99898

Comment 56

18 years ago
wontfix = VERY bad decision:
- no UI way to select mail sound in Linux (are we M$ lemmings now?).
- no way to have different sounds for different mail apps on one PC.
- many users will not know to look in the OS to set a sound for an App. An app's
setting should be in the app! ..who cares if M$ is trying to assimilate and
confuse by offering *some* settings.
- This is a highly requested feature.
- Eeven smaller progs like GetRight and ICQ have this setting.
- Mozilla developers need to listen more to "user logic" and less to "geek
logic" (and app's setting is set in the app!!!).
- A pref would only add *ONE* line to the prefs - hardly bloat!!! (see my
suggestion from 2001-01-16).

Therefore, please reopen and fix this bug.

Comment 57

18 years ago
For Windows and Mac it makes sense to obey the OS sound.  For Linux, I think
you'll get what you want if
is implemented.

Comment 58

18 years ago
Actually, since Moz and 6.x are becoming much more user configurable insofar as
'personal taste' is concerned, it makes much more sense to have the UI ability
to configure a custom sound apart from the OS default notification sound. Case
in point: You have multiple accounts/identities. Configure a different sound
file for each identity/account. We have the choice of multiple themes, why not
multiple sound files configured in each account UI?
putterman, no, that bug says nothing about UI, but a hidden pref only.

Comment 60

18 years ago
I believe this definitely should be reopened as a RFE bug. 

I strongly disagree with this Seth's decision, even as IMHO he is one of the top
5 Mozilla developers. 

Comment 61

18 years ago
We are not in the business of adding prefs, hidden or not, to please four 
highly advanced users.

Peter, Linux is covered elsewhere.  The very reason for the OS setting is so 
that you don't have 8 different mail sounds for various apps.  I do not 
believe your assertion that most users would think to look in the app settings 
to change the sound (and would understand how to look for 'wav' files on their 
computer), but not their OS settings, or even that the average user a) cares 
what the sound is or b) realizes it can be configured.  Empty statements like 
"this is a highly requested feature" don't hold any water, back it up, show that 
the majority of Outlook Express users are clamoring to change the sound for that 
app, show that a majority of Mozilla's distributors believe it is in their 
users' best interests to have this setting.  A word to the wise, you don't want 
to use ICQ as an example when you're arguing against bloat.  Your geek 
logic/user logic distinction is nonsensical, because what you're arguing for is 
a geek feature.  And finally, the it's-just-one-pref argument doesn't fly, you 
should stop using it in so many bugs.  There's never going to be a bug that says 
"add 95 prefs", so yes, it will happen one at a time, but it adds up.

Hidden pref or exposed, it's still bloat, and we need to stop letting it into 
the product unless it's something a lot of people want.  Being afraid of saying 
'no' and spreading the 'well, if you submit a patch I guess I'll take it' 
mentality is what causes us to end up with prefs like "Enable coloring for view 
source" that have highly visible UI.

Comment 62

18 years ago
Forgive me for being argumentative, but I don't think you have to be "a highly
advanced user" to want to change the New Mail sound. Using the system default
sound is a good start but it's clear that some people will want to customise it.
Yes, they could trudge off to the control panel / prefs dialog in their OS if
they want to pick a new sound, but assumes there is such a dialog and that the
user knows where to find and use it.

There is also the issue of what system default sound means. What will Mozilla do
under KDE? Will Moz know to pick up my KDE default New Mail sound? Is there a
default New Mail sound under KDE? Will it decide to use the GNOME one instead
and confuse the hell out of users?

Since we (Netscape) already have the UI for picking and playing a sound in the
AIM module, I don't see why that can't be reused here.

Comment 63

18 years ago
Blake: The problem is that this feature was already working in Mozilla for some
time. So my saying that it it should be a RFE is already a compromise, because
it is in fact a regression. Since recently - alas - it is a deliberate regression.

Comment 64

18 years ago
>We are not in the business of adding prefs, hidden or not, to please four 
>highly advanced users.

This is the comment of an organization that's just begging to be left in the
dust by someone that actually listens to their users. I haven't spoken up on the
"play sound" issue so far because others seemed to be speaking just fine on it.
I am baffled, though, by the resistence of the developers to make life easier
for the user (who is, after all, their sole reason for existence in this project). 
While I can understand the desire to avoid bloat (I didn't consider it a good
thing that I ended up adding 128 MB of RAM to my system so I could run Mozilla
concurrently w/ my other apps), adding a sound pref to the existing user
preferences window hardly seems likely to baloon memory usage much beyond where
it's already at.

I'm firmly in the camp of "I want control over what sound Mozilla plays when
mail arrives." The only reason I created a Bugzilla acount here was so I could
more easily track the resolution to this issue. Given a choice between use the
global system setting only and being able to specify a different one if I chose,
I will chose the latter.

Let's face it, the only reason most people are going to use Mozilla for email is
because they want to have the choice of how things work. If they're content to
go w/ system defaults, they're never even going to bother installing Mozilla. If
you remove the ability to chose what sound Mozilla plays (separately from other
apps), then you've removed one more reason for them to use Mozilla.
> We are not in the business of adding prefs, hidden or not, to please four 
> highly advanced users.

blake, please keep to the facts. You know very well that all of us arguing here
can live well with hidden prefs. We are arguing for users.

BTW: We are not all in the same "business", and a lot of people argue against
you, so saying "We are not in the business of..." is simply wrong.

> The very reason for the OS setting is so 
> that you don't have 8 different mail sounds for various apps.

No, the reason is not to *have to have* 8 different sounds.
> There's never going to be a bug that says "add 95 prefs",

Actually, there is: bug 17199. ;-P
> Hidden pref or exposed, it's still bloat

A hidden pref is about 10 lines of code, all included. Hardly bloat.

> Since we (Netscape) already have the UI for picking and playing a sound in the
> AIM module

Very funny.

Comment 66

18 years ago
It seems the opinions here are divided strictly on the Netscape / non-Netscape
lines. We've hit a glass ceiling here like in the case of a separate icon for
Mozilla mail (where the Netscape guys are determined not to allow that). Is AIM
promotion the reason Mozilla cannot have a mail sound choosing pref?

Comment 67

18 years ago
I sense something dangerous evolving here. If Netscape starts blocking features
(e.g., mail sound, Mozilla icons) because it fears that Mozilla may "compete"
with Netscape, then it may be time to start thinking about breaking away from
Netscape and moving in a more independant and "free" direction (albeit much
slower, but less incumbered by non-user-oriented politics). I hope I am mistaken
on this one.

PS. Blake: I, for one, *do* want *separate* mail sounds for my mail apps. I also
want to stay as far away as I can from depending on M$ configurations. Also, my
wife (and later, kids) might want to have a different sound (is that handled by
"user profiles" in the OS?).

Comment 68

18 years ago
This conversation is getting funny and paranoid.  I actually had no idea we even
let the user customize sounds in IM and am having trouble finding it in the product.

The allegation that Netscape is blocking this feature because we're scared of
competing with Mozilla is plain silly.  The reason why Netscape contributes
99.9% of the open source mail code is because we're scared of competing with
Mozilla?  That's very funny.  I'll have to mention that to the other
conspirators back in the office. Clearly we want Mozilla to succeed and I don't
think you can show any legitimate evidence to the contrary.

And, I hate this notion of Netscape vs everyone else that I often see creeping
into bugs.  The opinions that many of us have stated in this bug are because we
believe in them not because we are being told to say them.

If you want this bug implemented, go ahead and implement it.  Make sure there's
 a hidden pref so that the product can act the way it does now and not show any
of the new UI.  Make sure there's still a way for the user to use the default OS
sound.  Make sure you get the UI approved by jglick.  Make sure you get it
reviewed and super-reviewed.  For the last two points, have the understanding
that this is not going to be among jglick's or sspitzer's higher priorities and
they may not even be in agreement to what I've written in this paragraph.  But,
if you want any chance of getting this in, someone who isn't Seth is going to
have to prove this is worthwhile.

Comment 69

18 years ago
First of all I consider it a privilege unequaled to be able to *argue* with a
developer. Where else can an *ordinary user* accomplish this feat.

Second, I am a 58 yr old Master Certified Netware Engineer and Certified Novell
Instructor that lunches with Corporate Executives to seek high-level contracts.
I usually do this dressed in VERY starched $100+ dress shirts.

I simply *love* coming home, standing the shirt up in the corner, throwing on
the Netscape T-Shirt and lounge pants and listening to Curley (Stooges) telling
me I have mail "yuk yuk yuk" in one address  or George Carlin spouting "There's
a letter in your mailbox" in another. 'nuff said ?? I like the choice as do many
many others no matter if they're an 8 yr old kiddie or a 58 yr old curmudgeon
such as myself. :-D

Comment 70

18 years ago
> it's clear that some people will want to customise it.

Adam: that's the thing; I don't think we are sure. I don't think a couple people
in a bug is a worthwhile gauge (unless you're referring to other data). 
Personally I'd prefer to see feedback from milestones and distributor releases
before determing whether enough people want to change it such that it deserves a

Anyways, putterman is right, the conversation just turned borderline absurd so
let's take it to the newsgroups if anyone wants to continue...I'd just like to
point out the absolute absurdity of the Netscape vs. Mozilla quarrel some of you
have yet again turned this into.  Has anyone yet considered the fact that I (who
is saying the pref is unnecessary) no longer work for Netscape, and that Adam
(who has expressed interest in the pref) does?  The conspiracy cover up plan is
right on track.
my suggestion is that everyone takes a minute and thinks about where this would
fall in our current list of priorities.

How does this rank against crash bugs, data loss bugs, performance improvements,
other bugs, and new features?

Keep in mind, every bug has a cost.
The time and energy of each developer, code reviewer, code super reviewer, QA,
and UI designer are limited resources.  

I'm going to go spend my time on things that I feel are more important.

Comment 72

18 years ago
Seth: The problem is not that you do not have time to implement this. The
problem is that making this bug WONTFIX, you in fact disallow implementing this
by anyone. It's clear that when people with the amount of brownie points in the
Mail/News Module as sspitzer and putterman say something should not be
implemented, it will not be implemented. You earned the strong voice with the
good job you guys do. That's OK with me. But please, be careful with the use of
this power for decisions closing the way of implementing useful features. 

Comment 73

18 years ago
"open source" does not mean "anything goes if you've got the patch", and that
dangerous mentality is why we've got a lot of problems these days.  The WONTFIX
resolution exists for a reason and module owners should not be afraid to use it.

Comment 74

18 years ago
Was the final outcome of sound mailnotification on Linux that the option is now
between enabling and disabling the system "beep" from an internal speaker?

Comment 75

18 years ago
Correction on the IM stuff. It doesn't have the facility to change the sound
from the prefs, but there are buttons (and code) for playing sounds from the
dialog and the sounds that it plays are specified by hidden prefs,
"aim.buddy.SndPlayFirstIncoming", "aim.buddy.SndOutgoing" etc. To see the dialog
look under Prefs|Instant Messenger|Notification". To see the hidden prefs open
<NS6.1>\defaults\prefs\aim.js. The sounds themselves are packed into the skin
files, classic.jar & modern.jar under skin\classic\aim\sounds &

The code itself for playing the sound is pretty straightforward. It be seen by
opening aim.jar and viewing pref-IM_notification.xul & prefIM.js files. The
PlaySound function in prefIM.js is pretty straightforward, reading the sound URL
from the pref and telling the ";1" object to play it.
for linux, see bug

once we get a sound (see bug #64475), we'll package it with the linux build and
point to it internally using the "system.sound._moz_mailbeep" approach described
in #104174 
now that we're going to have a way to generically extend the account manager and
nsIMsgIncomingServer and nsIMsgIdentity (see bug #107068), we will be able to do

once #107068 lands, something could do this:

nsStatusBarBiffManager::OnItemPropertyFlagChanged() to pass item to
PerformStatusBarBiff(), and then in PerformStatusBarBiff(), you'd QI item to an
nsIMsgFolder, then get the incoming server from the folder, and then do

rv = server->GetStringAttribute("biffSystemSound", getter_Copies(biffSystemSound));

in mailnews.js, we'd set the default for that to be "_moz_mailbeep"

that gets this working, without any ui, and in the default case, we still play
the os sound for new mail notification.

for the UI, someone have to create an extension, say the "biffsound" extension.
(see 107068 for how to implement an extension).
that extension to the account manager would shown up only on servers that had
"incoming" mail.  for your am-biffsound.xul, you'd have to do all the hard work
to come up with a ui for picking system sounds.  that's the hard part, that's
why this bug was marked wontfix.  (I'd suggest a simple text box, for the first

if someone wants to do all this work, feel free to reopen and take the bug.
Depends on: 107068

Comment 78

18 years ago
verified as won't fix. 

Comment 79

18 years ago
> that's the hard part, that's why this bug was marked wontfix

WHAT? Because something is "hard to fix" should NEVER be a reason to not fix
it!!! Marking it "future" and "trivial" would have been better than this. Not
fixing this is an outrage! 

One of the worst offenses of windoze is integrating itself all over my harddrive
and system. I prefer to have my applications and their settings within the
application itself.

Wontfixing this bug is a horrible mistake that I trust you will reconsider.
Peter, calm down. Not implementing this RFE (it's not a bug) is not an
`outrage'; you are not Seth's manager, and it's not really any of your business
what he works on. And wontfixing this bug is not a `horrible mistake'; certainly
it is a mistake which Netscape mail/news engineers often make -- thinking that
`I am not interested in this right now' means `no-one else should be interested
in it either' -- but that's more a bug in Bugzilla (existence of default
assignees) and in their employment contracts (must spend more time
coding/reviewing Netscape work, and less time reviewing outside work) than it is
a fault in their personalities.

Using the system sound for new mail is not a bug, and the platform control panel
is the right place to set that sound, since I shouldn't have to set the sound in
several different places if I install or use multiple mail programs. However:
(1) on Windows 95, you can't set this pref in the platform control panel
    (comment 54);
(2) on Mac OS, *generally* expected behavior is for apps to have their own UI
    for prefs which affect them, and to write them to (as well as reading them 
    from) the Internet control panel settings when appropriate;
(3) the Mac OS Internet control panel has checkboxes not only for playing a
    sound, but also for flashing the icon and/or showing an alert, and Mozilla
    not supporting the latter two could lead users to believe that the former
    setting in Mozilla will be in app-specific UI too;
(4) on Linux etc., platform UI for this is (alas) often not there;
(5) on any platform, there would appear to be substantial benefit for a
    non-trivial number of users in allowing different notifications for new
    messages in different accounts (though this may perhaps be better
    implemented as a `play sound' action for mail filters, since that would be
    more flexible).

(1), (2), and (5) are solid reasons to implement this, and (3) and (4) are bugs
(in Mozilla and in Linux distros, respectively) which implementing it would work
around. Since all those reasons exist, since Putterman and Seth have both said
that they would be ok with someone else implementing it (i.e. the WONTFIX was an
error), and since I feel I've got enough karma since I'm usually the one asking
for *fewer* prefs, I'm reopening this and reassigning to nobody.
Severity: normal → enhancement
Resolution: WONTFIX → ---
--> nobody
Assignee: sspitzer → nobody
Target Milestone: Future → ---

Comment 82

18 years ago
This situation proved a very serious problem with this project. It is obvious
that even Netscape engineers do not understand even basic functions of bugzilla.
To mark a bug (even if it is RFE) as WONTFIX because it is "difficult", or
because the assignee doesn't have the time is a serious misunderstanding of the
process. It is obvious even to me (the "monkey in the machine") that the proper
reaction should have been: assigned to: nobody, TM: future, keywords:
helpwanted. I shiver to think of how many useful features may have been swept
under the "wontfix" carpet because of this - brrr.

mpt, thanks for fixing some of your "karma". The universe is now slightly more
in balance - ohmmmm. ;)

Comment 83

17 years ago
It seems that as at 2002030803 Mozilla disregards the "No Sound" schema when
running on Windows.

I was forced to check off Prepferences/Mail & Newsgroup/Play sound When New
Message arrive to stop the beeping.

Comment 84

17 years ago
If I remember correctly, the "default beep" will play regardless of the sound
settings in control-panel as it should. That being said, the correct action is
to do exactly what you did in the prefs.

Comment 85

17 years ago
Mac OS X has no system-wide option for selecting a biff sound, which is a
problem I'm sure Apple will eventually fix.  In the meantime, adding a
preference to override the OS default is as important on Mac OS X as it is on
Win95 and Linux.  I currently get the same sound for 1) new mail, 2) people
saying things to me in Chatzilla, 3) beeps in Terminal windows, 4) alerts from
other applications.

Thanks for not leaving this wontfix. :-)


17 years ago
QA Contact: sheelar → stephend
about to check in some back end code for this.

haven't decided yet how to do the front end.
Assignee: nobody → sspitzer
Target Milestone: --- → mozilla1.2beta
Posted patch patch for backend (obsolete) — Splinter Review
Attachment #52866 - Attachment is obsolete: true
Attachment #52996 - Attachment is obsolete: true
so to use this, set this pref:

user_pref("mail.biff.play_sound.url", "file:///C:/winnt/media/chimes.wav");

note, it needs to be a file url and it needs to be a wave file.

working on the UI...

Comment 90

17 years ago
Seth, why not using the pref that actually once worked:
user_pref("mail.biff.sound_file", "file:///C:/winnt/media/chimes.wav");
instead of 
user_pref("mail.biff.play_sound.url", "file:///C:/winnt/media/chimes.wav"); ?

Using "url" in the name creates a false impression that any url will work.
Posted image screen shot (obsolete) —
here's how it looks now, just a plain text box.  it defaults to _moz_mailbeep.

it works if you give it a system sound or a file url to a .wav file.

what I plan on doing is implementing a new, in memory datasource, so that I can
do this:

      <menulist id="mailnewsSoundFileUrl"
	<menupopup id="mailsoundspopup" ref="moz-systemsounds:/"
	      <menuitem value="..."

that will be friendly to both user specified sounds and to the sounds on the
Attachment #99317 - Attachment is obsolete: true

Comment 92

17 years ago
Seth: Not to put a "fly in the ointment" at this juncture but can something like
this be done on an account by account basis? In other words, can we have a
different sound for *each* account, ie., "chimes.wav" for Account-A and
"chord.wav" for Account-B, so forth and so on?

Comment 93

17 years ago
That's a neat idea.  Mozilla normally plays the system-wide biff sound for all
accounts, and this is a way to override it for those of us who don't have
system-wide biff sounds.  Perhaps there should be an additional per-account
preference to override this global (to Mozilla) preference?
> but can something like this be done on an account by account basis? In other 
> words, can we have a different sound for *each* account, ie., "chimes.wav" 
> for Account-A and "chord.wav" for Account-B, so forth and so on?

yes, that's next.  there will be per account overrides, just like there are for 
other global prefs.
seth, could you create "diff -u" patches in the future? they are easier to read,
imho... thanks
Posted image screen shot (obsolete) —
patch coming.  the patch works on all platforms, but is only really interesting 
on win32.

on win32, I look in the registry to find the C:\WINNT\Media directory (or 
C:\Windows\Media, for win98).

then, I populate the picker for all files that end with .wav and that don't 
contain %20.  (If I could get a "pretty name" from a file, I couldn't have to 
do this.)

note, if the user defines a wav file on their own, it will show up in the 

so on linux, or mac, if I set the pref to be some other wav file, it will show 

note, _moz_mailbeep always shows up, as the pretty name is "System New Mail 
Sound".  This is always supported, as we map this system sound to the new mail 
sound, or just plain old beep.

I've also added a preview button that plays the current sound.

The next steps:

1)  fixing how I determine the pretty name of a .wav file
2)  mac build changes so I can land.
3)  add code for mac (mac should be easy, assuming I can just enumerate all the 
system sound.)

Patch on the way.
4xp, as mac had this in 4.x
Keywords: 4xp
Posted patch patch (obsolete) — Splinter Review
another todo idea, move "System New Mail Sound" to a string bundle.
note, once this work is done, I'll be able to add per server overrides.

I'll then fix the sound datasource so that any custom server sounds show up in 
the picker.

We'll have to relnote that the way to add new sounds to the picker is (for 
win32) to copy them into the Media directory.

for mac, I think they'll just show up once the user creates them.

Comment 101

17 years ago
Suggestion: Please add a *Browse* button for users whose media files are stored
in different places. (Of course, Mozilla should _remember_ the last used directory)

Comment 102

17 years ago
Seth: Do you realize just *how many* .wav files there are in /windows/media ??
If the user that installs Windows and chooses to install the Media package, the
directory will contain approximately 150 wave files !! I can't imagine a UI
"file picker" with 150 wave files. However, once we get away from /media/ then
we run into user problems insofar as exactly which directory to use and/or copy
wave files to. This can be a no-win situation as I see it so far. Suggestions

Comment 103

17 years ago
Suggestion already ..

The install bits installs a /sounds/ directory with a pre-packaged assortment of
wave files to choose from in the "picker". If the user wants *more* then they
can copy over whichever files they want to /sounds/ or something along those
lines. Of course this pre-package will contain the "System New Notification".

Comment 104

17 years ago
Maybe I misunderstood Usabilitiy but I would strongly vote for ryan's first
screenshot. Every User should be able to hit the "Browse" button and to search
for sound files, or if not he/she leaves the settings as they are and get sound
as well.

My 2 EUR

jay, thanks for the heads up about the number of sound files.

I'll work with jglick on the UI issue, including the "browse" button.

as far as code goes, I'm going to move the windows specific code of 
nsSoundDatasource.cpp and into nsMessengerWinIntegration.cpp, where I should 
have put it in the first place.


17 years ago
Blocks: 104174

Comment 106

17 years ago
My vote is for the "browse" button instead of the "picker". A MUCH better option
and every user that I know of can use a "browse" button. In addition, it keeps
the UI slim and trim.
the picker is good for default system sounds, like on mac.

I'll talk to jglick, she might think browser for windows, and nsSoundDatasource
/ picker for mac only.

this alternative patch is just a start.  I'll screen shot it.

what we need is a sound picker overlay, that can be textbox, choose file,
preview button for win32/linx, and menulist & preview button for mac (using

Comment 110

17 years ago
I like that UI much better than a "picker" for the PC simply because what files
do YOU choose for the picker. Gonna get flack from the users if NS picks the
wrong ones. Also, if you use the picker approach ONLY, the question concerning a
"browse" button in addition is going to be a main topic, and to include both is
not advisable - too much UI bloat IMHO. Stick with the browse-button and let the
user decide totally !!

Including a "picker" would be the same as a "signature picker" where NS would
choose some "snazzy" sig lines that most users would deem to be 'screwball'. 

Comment 111

17 years ago
FYI:  on classic Mac OS, system sounds aren't .wav files, they're sound
resources stored within the System suitcase.  If the user selects their own
file, we should support .wav and .aiff and System 7 sounds (file type "sfil"
containing a resorce type "snd ").

On Mac OS X, sounds are in one of the Library/Sounds folders, and the standard
format is .aiff.  Of course, we should search /System/Library/Sounds and
/Library/Sounds and ~/Library/Sounds, in addition to letting the user select
something with the Browse button.

Strip off the extension, capitalize the first letter if it's not already - is
there a prettier name than this somewhere?
*** Bug 169174 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Posted patch new patch (obsolete) — Splinter Review
Attachment #99433 - Attachment is obsolete: true
Attachment #99435 - Attachment is obsolete: true
Attachment #99635 - Attachment is obsolete: true
Posted image screen shot
Attachment #99320 - Attachment is obsolete: true
Attachment #99341 - Attachment is obsolete: true
Posted patch updated patch (obsolete) — Splinter Review
Attachment #99636 - Attachment is obsolete: true
the mac system sound picker is now bug 169384

until that's fixed, this is the UI we'll see on all platforms.
Posted patch final patch (obsolete) — Splinter Review
Attachment #99638 - Attachment is obsolete: true
Posted patch final patchSplinter Review
Attachment #99640 - Attachment is obsolete: true
fixed.  if there are new issues, let's log new bugs.
Last Resolved: 18 years ago17 years ago
Resolution: --- → FIXED
Comment on attachment 99641 [details] [diff] [review]
final patch

this patch uses a string preference for the filename... not sure if that's a
good idea, in other places, a complex value of type nsIFile (or nsILocalFile,
not sure) is used, which seems to be important for mac
Comment on attachment 99650 [details] [diff] [review]
backend patch to respect the new prefs.

+    rv = pref->GetCharPref(PREF_NEW_MAIL_SOUND_URL,

didn't you save "fp.file.path" in the preference? that is not an url, it's a
normal filesystem path...
I wanted both file urls and native paths to work.

I got lucky on windows because of how PlaySystemSound() works, 

I dont think this will work right on linux and mac.  I'll work on 
nsStatusBarBiffManager.cpp tomorrow, so that the native file paths work right 
on that platform.

for those interested in the native path issue, see bug 169414
You want to use persistentDescriptor to store a path I think
( It seems
like nsIPrefBranch does the right thing if you call [Set|Get]ComplexValue with a
FWIW, Mac users will squirm uncomfortably if you show them a path to a system
sound in the prefs.

Comment 128

17 years ago
The goal is to have a different UI for Mac for this reason.  BTW, this is a
really nice feature.  It appears to work great in this morning's build on Windows.

Comment 129

17 years ago
Don't you think that the "Preview" Button is misleading ? The Question is: How
can I Pre *view* a sound file ? Better would be simply "Listen".

Comment 130

17 years ago
Ahh, yes suggestion for the MAC users. I can understand somehow that MAC users
are not comfortable with files and Directory Structure of their system. So I
think a good point to start could be that dependend of the platform used, if you
hit browse that you start to browse in the directory where normally the system
sound files are on that platform, e.g C:\Winnt\system32\sound  or /Library/Sounds/
or /usr/share/sound.

Comment 131

17 years ago
Bootsy: In Windows cntrl-panel/sounds it's "preview", so I think it's relative
to name it "preview" in keeping with the Windows tradition.

Comment 132

17 years ago
Well, I'm on Linux, I used Windows some time ago :-) But who said that Bill
Gates is a Master of Usability and Intutive Design ? I think a guy who
implemented a "Start" Button, which you have to hit to power down the machine,
is not.

I think the Apple Developers have a better UI Guide, so what do they use ?

I would still vote for "Listen" or something similar, but I accept that
OpenSource is democratic.

Comment 133

17 years ago
I don't have a problem with "Listen" but it's not consistent with what "Joe
User" is accustomed to seeing/using. This is a minor issue at best. 

Comment 134

17 years ago
I agree that this is only a minor issue, of course. As I do not have a MAC, it
would be interesting what the MAC user sees, is it also "Preview" on a Mac ? I
don't know.

Comment 135

17 years ago
Regarding comment #130, the problem is not that Mac users are not comfortable
with files and the directory structure of their system; the problem is that
system sounds are not files, they're resources contained within the System file.
 You could fake a file path by pretending the file is a folder and the sound
resources are files (the Finder pretends this for UI), but this is actually NOT
the file structure.  In fact, as I understand it, because these resources are in
the System file which is always open, they are always available to any
application without USING a file path at all.  The proper way to handle these
is, in fact, having a sound picker menu.  If a user got creative with ResEdit
and pasted a sound resource into the Mozilla application, or into a font
suitcase and dropped it in the Fonts folder, or possibly into prefs.js (I'm not
sure about this one), or something else bizarre, it should be available in the
menu, because it's an available resource as long as the file is open.  This will
not make sense to anyone who isn't a Mac user, and probably not make sense to
most Mac users either, but that's the way the OS works.

Comment 136

17 years ago
Win98SE Mozilla 2002091908

The addition of the BROWSE/PREVIEW feature doesn't work. The file that is
already there from the previous feature addition works with PREVIEW. However,
browsing to another .wav file and then pressing PREVIEW invokes the default 
Windows BEEP and not the file selected. Getting new mail also invokes the BEEP.
Choosing the default system sound still works.

Comment 137

17 years ago
Ok, here's the problem.

When browsing to the file location, it displays in the window as:


It should be:


This works 100% if manually changed.

Comment 138

17 years ago
I'm using Win XP and both the preview button and mail notification sound work
fine with my custom sound.
>When browsing to the file location, it displays in the window as:
>   C:\WINDOWS\MEDIA\Gotmail.wav
>It should be:
>   file:///C:\WINDOWS\MEDIA\Gotmail.wav

yeah, I raised that issue already in comment 123

Comment 140

17 years ago
Tried this on another box running Win98SE and it doesn't work unless you add the
file:/// to C:/path/to/sound.wav

Comment 141

17 years ago
putterman: does adding file:/// prepending the path also work in your XP? If so,
then I recommend that file:/// should be the Windows OS  default for this feature.

Comment 142

17 years ago
Both ways work for me.  Anyway we can still display it as "C:\\filename" but
make it do the right thing in the back end?
I'm using Linux build 2002091908 and it also only works if file:// is there. 
Using the browse button to choose the file does not include the file:// as needed.
Glad to have sound though.  Thank you.
I'll probably end up filing this as a separate bug:

I can browse to C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\Desktop\PushNevada.txt
and click Preview and have it play my default system sound.

Question: Should we do file-type checking by extension, and on Mac by the fork,
or is that evil?  The user should know the valid file types for sounds, but you
never know ;-)

It's also weird that with the selection of 'System Default Sound', the 'Preview'
button is disabled.

Seth, in order to keep this bug clutter-free, do you want the new bugs marked as
a dependancy on this?

Comment 145

17 years ago
It is left a little bit unclear if this bug should also fix on Linux. I build
off the trunk today, but I still have only the PC Speaker beep. Nothing come out
of my speakers so far, no matter if I choose System Sound or I choose my own
.wav file.

The Linux builds appear to have the same problem.  What worked for me was to
prepend "file://" to the location of the sound file I chose.  For example:


Should look something like this:

busy working on spam, but I will get back to this.

here's the problem for linux / mac:

I need to fix the path handling code.  see bug 169414

I need to make it work for both file:// and native paths

the side effect of this bug is that on linux, any native path will be the 
system beep.
from comment #124

"I wanted both file urls and native paths to work.
I got lucky on windows because of how PlaySystemSound() works."

on win2k and winxp, I think playsystemsound(), which calls some win32 sound api
takes the path, and plays it.

that's how I got lucky.

it sounds like on win98, not so lucky.  this will be fixed when I fix 169414.

I hope this helps. 

jay, can you spread the word in bugs and newsgroups?

Comment 150

17 years ago
> jay, can you spread the word in bugs and newsgroups?

Sure, but I think I'll wait for a bug report post first. 

Comment 151

17 years ago
Woooha, finally I could wipe out Softbeep. Works perfectly.

Had to use 



Thanx, for this long awaited feature

Comment 152

17 years ago
So, it works for you just like I said in comment #137 .. good!

Comment 153

17 years ago
yes, exactly like in #137 with the sole exception that I don't have
C:\Winnt\Media here on Linux :-)

Comment 154

17 years ago
Just one last question, could it be possible that this broke the "Play Sound" of
the Calendar ? As I just figured out that, in the past working "playing sound on
Events" does not work anymore. I hear nothing at the moment.

Comment 155

17 years ago
On Linux trunk build 2002100911 I try specifying a filename;
file:///home/james/music/wav/popup.wav but when I hit the preview button nothing
happens. I get the following error in the Javascript console:

Error: uncaught exception: [Exception... "Component returned failure code:
0x80004005 (NS_ERROR_FAILURE) []"  nsresult: "0x80004005
(NS_ERROR_FAILURE)"  location: "JS frame ::
chrome://messenger/content/pref-notifications.js :: PreviewSound :: line 63" 
data: no]

I know the wav file is okay, as I can play it from the command-line:

bash# aplay /home/james/music/wav/popup.wav
Playing WAVE '/home/james/music/wav/popup.wav' : Signed 16 bit Little Endian,
Rate 16000 Hz, Mono
looks like sound notification works on both the commercial cfm trunk build
(2002.11.12.08) and the mach-o mozilla build (2002.11.12.07) on mac 10.2.2, at
least when using the system sound/beep.

Comment 157

17 years ago
posted Bug 180009 aboutt he javascript error in Linux

Comment 158

17 years ago
I have no JavaScript error but despite of that the sound doesn't play for some
time now, last checked with trunk build of Dec 30th on Linux. However 'play' on
the console does work. I do not even get a beep when I select a custom sound. I
tried both, the file in 'file:///' syntax and in system path syntax

Reopen ?


16 years ago
No longer blocks: 104174
Product: Browser → Seamonkey
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