Closed
Bug 7930
Opened 25 years ago
Closed 21 years ago
Find dialog improvements bug
Categories
(SeaMonkey :: UI Design, defect, P3)
SeaMonkey
UI Design
Tracking
(Not tracked)
RESOLVED
INVALID
People
(Reporter: cpratt, Assigned: bugzilla)
References
Details
(Keywords: helpwanted)
Attachments
(1 file)
3.12 KB,
image/gif
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Details |
build id: 1999060909 platform: windows nt If you select Find On this page [sic] from the Search menu, the dialog that is presented is horked. - The text input control has an incomplete border, varying height, and visual garbage over a couple of pixels. - The option labelled 'Case Sensitive' should read 'Match Case'. - Please discuss other UI stuff with German et al; 'Backwards' and 'Wrap' seem unnecessary (ie it may be better to stick with Up and Down). - Finally, the 'Find' button should theoretically be labelled 'Find Next' - I think. Again, please confer with German et alii.
Updated•25 years ago
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Assignee: trudelle → don
Comment 1•25 years ago
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These are not XPToolkit issues, reassigning to don for triage, although I think you should break it up into separate bug reports, one defect per report.
Assignee: don → german
Component: XP Toolkit/Widgets → UE/UI
OS: Windows NT → All
Hardware: PC → All
German, you make the call. No hurry. Re-assign back to me with your comments.
Let's stick to the 4.5 interface unless there are any major objections. So up and down as well as "Find Next" as button. Reassign to Don to check whether your team has done/can do all the plumbing to the right JS functions, the re-assign to me so we can fine-tune the dialog later in terms of visual appearance.
Assignee: german → don
Updated•25 years ago
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Assignee: don → sfraser
Comment 5•25 years ago
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Bill and I wrote the Find stuff. The current dialog is most like the Mac Find dialog, which I was working from, and (IMHO) is better than the Windows Find dialog. If someone can give a good argument why the current implementation is worse than the alternatives, I'll change it. If not, then let it be.
The basic argument I'll make is this one: - It's easiest for customers to deal with UIs they've seen before - Given that most customers use Windows, if we have to choose, we should go with the Windows conventions (ideally of course it would be tailored to each platform) As a QA engineer my job in this area is to make sure that dialogs &c. do not differ from 4.x; if they do, it's good only if it's to conform to platform-specific conventions (ie Options/Preferences, Quit/Exit, &c.).
Updated•25 years ago
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Assignee: sfraser → german
Updated•25 years ago
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Target Milestone: M10 → M16
Comment 7•25 years ago
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move to later milestone for Ui polish process only.
<off-topic> I disagree with Chris's one-sided comments: This is not valid for 5.0. 5.0 will sport an new and look and feel that will put preference on a platform independent web-inspired look and feel. As an aside I seriously hope that you're not making being stagnant the guide of your work, as innovation is at the heart of Netscape, and it sometimes means accepting risks as a way of achieving innovation and taking the lead.</off-topic> Yes bug stays open since this falls into a larger dialog cleanup effort for 5.0 past dog-food in this case.
Updated•25 years ago
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QA Contact: phillip → paulmac
Moving UE/UI component bugs over to new User Interface: Design Feedback component. UE/UI component will be deleted.
Component: UE/UI → User Interface: Design Feedback
Comment 10•24 years ago
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QA Assigning to Sarah, who now owns this feature.
QA Contact: paulmac → sairuh
Comment 11•24 years ago
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Moreover: The Find dialog, pretty as it is, is pretty hopeless with the keyboard. Use of keyboard is at best frustrating. Another point is: can you program it so that the search string is positioned at the top of the browser window rather than at the bottom? I believe that would make so much more sense.
Comment 12•24 years ago
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Move it onto a later milestone M18. The original reported problem seems already fixed but people would still like to discuss issues around this bug. Though I would not consider this one is a valid open bug anymore, I will leave it open for just discussion purpose till German wants to close it.
Target Milestone: M16 → M18
Comment 13•24 years ago
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Most of the cosmetic suggestions have been fixed, agree with the original assement that we should still change these things to make the UI easier to use: - Label button "Find Next" instead of "Find" - Replace "Search backwards" and "Wrap around" check boxes with radio buttons that simply say "Up" and "Down" cc'ing verah for wording feedback nominating for nsbeta3
Keywords: nsbeta3
Comment 14•24 years ago
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The changes are fine with me.
Comment 15•24 years ago
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I'm confused about how "Up" and "Down" radio buttons replace both "Wrap" and "Find backwards".
Comment 16•24 years ago
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Perhaps there is no "wrap." Anyone?
Reporter | ||
Comment 17•24 years ago
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As far as I'm concerned "wrap" is obviated by the use of "up" and "down", which imply a circular motion (up to the top of the page and then up starting at the bottom of the page). "Wrap" really doesn't need to be there - sure, it may provide a tad of additional functionality by distinguishing between stopping at the top/bottom of the page and not stopping, but the confusion it may create for end users is not worth the extra functionality.
Comment 18•24 years ago
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I think people are used to seeing a "wrap around" option in search dialogs. By not having one, we're communicating that our search stops when it reaches the bottom (or top). That's okay, if that's what we want to communicate.
Comment 19•24 years ago
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The way `Up' and `Down' replaces wrap is by also having an `All' option, like MS Word has. I'm squeamish about using the words `up' and `down' at all, given that (with the wonders of CSS) text which is found `Down'wards may be hundreds of pixels *higher* than the starting position (and vice versa). Perhaps `forwards' and `backwards' would make more sense? Anyhow ... +---------------------------------------------------------+ 5.0 |[] Find in This Page ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::| | +---------------------------------------------------------+ | | _Find what: [_________________________] (( Find Next )) | | | _Search: ( ) Up (*) Down ( ) All | V | ,----------------------------------------------------- | [ ] Exact _case / [ ] Find whole words only |(bug 14871) future ------------------------' [ ] Use wildcards |(bug 32641) versions | [ ] Exact _diacritics [ ] Allow spelling errors | | | [ ] Exact _alef hamza {... future non-charset- | | | {... future charset-specific -specific options go here}| | | options go here} | V +---------------------------------------------------------+ Explanations: * Position of `Find Next' button: obviousness for someone who just wants to do a simple search, and forwards compatibility with muscle memory for the `Find Next' button when we add more options to the bottom of the dialog in future versions. * Text of `Find Next' button: It would be really cool if the text of this button changed to `Find First', `Find Next', or `Find Previous' depending on the situation, but just `Find Next' will do for now. * `Cancel' button replaced by a close box: this isn't a modal dialog, so we shouldn't confuse people by making it look like one (and it's not as if you can un-find text once you've found it, anyway, so `Cancel' makes absolutely no sense). * Order of radio buttons ({Up, Down, All} rather than {All, Up, Down}): so that when the radio buttons have focus, from `Down' (the default) I can get to either of the other two options with only one keypress. * Position of charset-specific vs. non-charset-specific options: aesthetics and economy of movement. There are probably always going to be more charset-specific options than non-charset-specific options, so charset-specific options go on the left for visual balance. And normally, users are more likely to use non-charset-specific options than charset-specific options, so they should be closer to the `Find Next' button to minimize mouse effort. * Wording of `Exact case' checkbox: obviousness, and future compatibility. Already when I see `Match case', I wonder for a moment: `does that mean it will match *any* case, or only the case I enter?'. I can work it out after a couple of seconds, but that's a couple of seconds I could have spent doing something else. And IMO, that's just going to get worse with future charset-specific options unless the wording is changed. BTW German, you really should get into the habit of reassigning bugs to programmers once you're done with them. :-)
Depends on: 49331
Comment 20•24 years ago
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Marking nsbeta3-, but that should be removed when assigned back to an engineer.
Whiteboard: nsbeta3-
Comment 21•24 years ago
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I am fine with the short-term changes suggested by Mat., guessing these are easier to understand than 'wrap-around', while providing nearly the same functiuonality. assigning to Don's team to see whether we can implement this for rtm. Keyword rtm.
Comment 22•24 years ago
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Hmmmm, that IS a nicer design. But I don't want to take it for Netscape 6 at this time. Let's see if we can get it into a possible Mozilla release or Netscape 6.1.
Assignee: don → law
Whiteboard: [rtm-]
Target Milestone: M18 → ---
Updated•24 years ago
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Keywords: helpwanted
Assignee | ||
Comment 23•24 years ago
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cc'ing me in case i want to do this on a rainy day (warning: it might have to be very rainy to get me to do this)
Comment 24•24 years ago
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*** Bug 65539 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 25•24 years ago
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I am working on this dialog now..
Comment 26•24 years ago
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Chaning the qa contact on these bugs to me. MPT will be moving to the owner of this component shortly. I would like to thank him for all his hard work as he moves roles in mozilla.org...Yada, Yada, Yada...
QA Contact: sairuh → zach
Just a personal point of view : I have never understood how works "All" in MS Find features. From a user's perspective, how can the direction be "up" *and* "down" at the same time ?... I think that "wrap" or "repeat" makes more sense and shouldn't be in same radiogroup.
Comment 28•24 years ago
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Comment 29•24 years ago
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Ok, the latest attachment is how it looks right now. Known issues: * Find Next button is clipped at the right side Most of what I've done was from the beginning to follow mpt's spec from 2000-08-23 20:29. But I've not fulfilled it to 100%, why? * Exact case isn't used in any other app, so I used "Case sensitive" so the user won't be confused. * Instead of "Up", "Down" and "All" I did "Next" and "Previous". Sometimes there are several matches at the same line, so Up and Down ain't really appropriate. "All" makes no sense either, it's just confusing "Up, down or all? How can it search both up and down at the same time?". So for that reason I'm sticking with "Wrap around". I think I implemented the rest of what the spec asked for. Now there's much space over in the bottom-left corner that's used for nothing.. That looks kinda weird. Another thing is that I don't know whether the checkboxes looks best vertically or horizontally aligned. Please give feedback now, if you have a really good reason then perhaps I can implement it! If you have good reasons and ideas about how the find dialog can be further improved then please post them here. And please only post good, complete comments - not several small comments. Thanks! PS. Law hasn't touched this bug in 2 years, so I'm taking it. Law: please let me know if this is a problem.
Assignee: law → hwaara
Whiteboard: [rtm-]
Target Milestone: --- → mozilla0.9
Comment 30•24 years ago
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How about having "find next" and "find previous" buttons instead of a pair of radio buttons and a button? The "find next" button would be the default button, and it would be next to the text field. Perhaps shift+enter when the text field has focus could do "find previous". I think the dialog should have a cancel button, simply because it's easier to bonk a cancel button with the mouse than it is to bonk a close box. See bug 60618 and bug 64489 for more discussion about cancel buttons and the escape key.
Comment 31•24 years ago
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Instead of having a "wrap around" checkbox, we could ding at the top/bottom of the document, and bring up a second dialog saying "You've reached the end of the document. Click Find Next again to continue searching from the beginning." Very recently I heard someone suggest replacing the dialog-on-dialog with an area for "status" text in the Find dialog. I like this idea because it means the user would be able to just click once (Find Next to wrap around, or Cancel to bail out) if the text isn't found. I don't remember whose idea this was.
Comment 32•24 years ago
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Ahh, that was Jeffrey Baker in bug 70771.
Comment 33•24 years ago
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Ok. Any comments on the actual UI that the screenshot showed?
Summary: Find on this page dialog horked → Improve the Find dialog (was: Find on this page dialog horked)
Comment 34•24 years ago
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cc'ing German who was involved with this some time ago...
Comment 35•24 years ago
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Correction: the attachment shows how it looks right now after my improvements, not how it looks right now for users of Mozilla.
Comment 36•24 years ago
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in NetBeans source editor (http://editor.netbeans.org/) find can result in a highlight search, which is how a find All option can be used. an example of how this is useful can be seen in google cache searches, eg. http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:www.google.com/+google&hl=en which highlights google in yellow [which is the same color that netbeans uses]. i'm not sure how hard/easy it would be to add a css selector :-moz-find-match
See :contains() pseudo-class in CSS 3 Selectors working draft : http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-selectors/#content-selectors
Comment 38•24 years ago
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> Exact case isn't used in any other app, so I used "Case sensitive" so the user > won't be confused. Principle of consistency of the closest aspects: Consistency within the app is more important than consistency with other apps. So, consistency of the `Exact case' checkbox with the eventual `Exact diacritics', `Exact alef hamza', etc checkboxes is more important than consistency with `Case sensitive' checkboxes in other apps. And, IMO, Find windows/dialogs aren't used often enough generally for consistency with other apps to be worth the (IMO) decreased obviousness of what the checkbox does. > Instead of "Up", "Down" and "All" I did "Next" and "Previous". Sometimes there > are several matches at the same line, so Up and Down ain't really appropriate. See the first paragraph of my 2000-08-23 comment. > "All" makes no sense either, it's just confusing "Up, down or all? How can it > search both up and down at the same time?". So for that reason I'm sticking > with "Wrap around". `All' is not the same thing as wrap around. `All' starts from the beginning and goes towards the end. `Wrap around' goes up/down, just like vanilla Up/Down, but continues from the end/beginning of the document once you've reached the beginning/end. I think `All' is much more likely to be useful than `Wrap around' is -- you're more likely to want to begin a search from the beginning of the document, than to (seemingly arbitrarily) search the document in two chunks based on the position of a (usually) invisible caret. How about | | Search: (*) Whole document ( ) Forwards ( ) Backwards | -- but that would take more space. > Now there's much space over in the bottom-[right] corner that's used for > nothing.. That looks kinda weird. So, implement a few of bugs listed in my 2000-08-23 comment. :-) > I think the dialog should have a cancel button, simply because it's easier to > bonk a cancel button with the mouse than it is to bonk a close box. Yes, my preferred option is for the Find window to become a dialog (rather than a window) | | +-----------------------------------------------------+ | | Find :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::| | +-----------------------------------------------------+ | | _Find what: [_________________________] (( Find )) | | | _Search: (*) All ( ) Down ( ) Up ( Cancel ) | | | | | | [ ] Exact _case [ ] Find whole _words only | | | [ ] Exact _diacritics [ ] _Use wildcards | | | [ ] Exact _alef hamza [ ] Allow spelling _errors | | | | | +-----------------------------------------------------+ |, which (when you click Find) minimizes itself into a Find toolbar at the top of the content area. The toolbar would have a close box, and buttons labelled `Find Next', `Find Previous', `Find ...' (to reopen the dialog), and maybe even `Highlight All' (as Timeless suggested). But for now, it's a window, rather than a dialog. And just as dialogs shouldn't have close boxes to do exactly the same thing as one of the buttons inside them, windows shouldn't have buttons inside them which do exactly the same thing as the close box. It's the law. (See also bug 66456.)
Comment 39•24 years ago
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Exact alef hamza sounds really wierd /- Match --------\ | [x] Case | | [ ] diacritics | | [ ] Alef Hamza | +----------------+ you could even do: /- Match ---------------------------\ | [x] Case [ ] whole words | | [ ] diacritics [ ] wildcards | | [ ] Alef Hamza [ ] misspellings | +-----------------------------------+
Comment 40•24 years ago
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too me this looks incredibly complex. The bug originally started out by streamlining things, and making them easier to understand. Now I wonder whether there is still a way to use progressive disclosure here, and only expose the 90% case upfront, but then have some control that expands the dialog to also show wildcards and all the other stuff consumers are not expected to use...
Comment 41•24 years ago
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A comment on the screenshot: you should line the checkboxes up with the left edge of the text field, not have them flush left in the dialog.
Comment 42•23 years ago
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I don't have enough time to promise I'll fix this, thus I'm reassigning to the default owner of this component. Who knows, maybe I'll get around and fix it after all - but I can't promise it. Sorry :(
Assignee: hwaara → mpt
Comment 43•23 years ago
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Hakan: If you are ditching this bug, please attach your patches :-) Gerv
Comment 44•23 years ago
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One reason I stopped with this was because I lost them, along with the rest of the fixes in my tree :(
Comment 45•23 years ago
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--> mozilla0.9.2. This is #4 on my list of things-to-spec (after Page Info, the XP filepicker, and Bookmarks). Though if anyone wants to implement my 2001-03-04 design, that would certainly be an improvement over the current version. Currently I'm thinking of replacing `Up', `Down', and `All' with (a) a `Start at Top' checkbox in the dialog, and (b) `Find Next' and `Find Previous' items in the `Edit' menu rather than in the dialog itself.
Keywords: helpwanted
Target Milestone: mozilla0.9 → mozilla0.9.2
Comment 46•23 years ago
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This dialog can be greatly simplified by removing the up, down, and wrap options. It would always search down, and automatically wrap (perhaps with a notification that the end of the document has been reached.) At a very minimum, keyboard shortcuts should be added to the current options.
Comment 47•23 years ago
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I use "search up" frequently. Normally when I've gone one too far searching down. However, you could make a case for auto-wrap. Gerv
Reporter | ||
Comment 48•23 years ago
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"This dialog can be greatly simplified by removing the up, down, and wrap options." Yes, that would make it simpler. That would also make it incredibly lame. Don't forget, we do compete with Microsoft Internet Explorer; given that we already are lacking dozens of IE-comparable features in Mozilla, why make matters worse by removing even more functionality? Come on, people, this bug has been open for 1 year, 10 months, and two weeks at this point. Talk about 'stagnation'.
Comment 49•23 years ago
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Cpratt, we aren't `competing' with Internet Explorer of the number of visible options and features are we? We are striving to make a good browser, and good is not always to provide as much *visible* functionality as possible - but sometimes to hide it for the user, to make another certain feature easier to use, in this case the Find Dialog.
Reporter | ||
Comment 50•23 years ago
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Håkan - you're right; I stand corrected. I agree that Mozilla remains uncompetitive with IE. The problem is simple: once users come to expect certain functionality in a software application (e.g. Up and Down buttons in the find dialog), it's very difficult for them to migrate to an app with reduced functionality. Given that (approximately) 90% of the world is using IE, and most of the rest of the world is using Communicator 4.x (both of which have Up and Down buttons in their Find dialogs), the lack of these buttons in Mozilla would IMHO be problematic.
Comment 51•23 years ago
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No, we are competetive with IE if we provide a better UI than it does. I'm not 100% certain that is the cause within this suggestion, about removing the radiobuttons. But generally, hidden functionality without too much visible UI/prefs gives a better UI experience. I would like to hear MPT or German's thoughts here (re: Up and Down).
Comment 52•23 years ago
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My thoughts re: Up/Down and Wrap: If you start searching from the middle of the document (i.e. that's where your selection is), then, so search the entire document, you have to do it in two stages: search Up to the top, then Down to the bottom. This can be ameliorated by a checkbox to start searching at the top, but then, why not add another checkbox to start searching at the bottom (for backwards search?). Having a single 'Wrap' checkbox avoids these issues. Another thing to think about here is searching behaviour in framesets, which is soon to get get checked in (see bugs 63241 and 68307). Note that this may require the addition of a 'Search all frames' checkbox.
Comment 53•23 years ago
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mpt: Does the fact that you say you are going to re-spec this mean that the current spec in this bug no longer reflects your thinking? Otherwise we can just go ahead and implement that... Gerv
Comment 54•23 years ago
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pushing out. 0.9.2 is done. (querying for this string will get you the list of the 0.9.2 bugs I moved to 0.9.3)
Target Milestone: mozilla0.9.2 → mozilla0.9.3
Summary: Improve the Find dialog (was: Find on this page dialog horked) → Find dialog improvements bug
Updated•23 years ago
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Target Milestone: mozilla0.9.3 → ---
Comment 55•23 years ago
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mpt: if you spec this, someone with Patch Maker could fix the UI part pretty quickly. If it requires back end changes, that's harder. Gerv
Comment 56•23 years ago
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Is there anything left to do on this bug?
Comment 57•22 years ago
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.
Assignee: mpt → blaker
Component: User Interface Design → XP Apps: GUI Features
QA Contact: zach → paw
Assignee | ||
Comment 58•21 years ago
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This bug isn't useful.
Status: NEW → RESOLVED
Closed: 21 years ago
Resolution: --- → INVALID
Updated•20 years ago
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Product: Core → Mozilla Application Suite
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Description
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