Closed Bug 938985 Opened 7 years ago Closed 7 years ago

[Australis] Address bar cannot be added to other toolbars

Categories

(Firefox :: Toolbars and Customization, enhancement)

28 Branch
enhancement
Not set
normal

Tracking

()

RESOLVED WONTFIX

People

(Reporter: accounts, Unassigned)

References

(Blocks 2 open bugs)

Details

(Keywords: regression, Whiteboard: [Australis:M?][Australis:P5])

The customization page does not allow the Address Bar to be added to the Tab toolbar. In previous versions of Firefox The address bar could be added to the left/right of tabs.
Gijs / shorlander - I know this is something we were discussing during the meeting today. Was a bug ever filed? If not, this could become that bug.
Whiteboard: [Australis:M?][Australis:P4]
Status: UNCONFIRMED → NEW
Ever confirmed: true
I seem to remember a bug being filed about this, but we can dupe it when we come across it.
Whiteboard: [Australis:M?][Australis:P4] → [Australis:M?][Australis:P5]
OS: Mac OS X → All
Hardware: x86_64 → All
Summary: [Australis] Address bar cannot be added to the tabs toolbar → [Australis] Address bar cannot be added to other toolbars
Duplicate of this bug: 939424
Hooray, found this bug in !@#load of Bug 872617 depends.

And yes, my layout is broken.
Duplicate of this bug: 942097
Apparently bug 866978 set removable="false" on the urlbar.
Duplicate of this bug: 942443
Duplicate of this bug: 944193
Restricting the address bar to the Navigation Toolbar was a deliberate decision and is something that we don't have plans to change. The back/forward buttons and the address bar are fundamental to navigating the web, and keeping them visible removes one of the footguns that users have faced previously. We also have a few places in our UI that mention "Navigation Toolbar" which would be incorrect if the navigational elements are not located in the "Navigation Toolbar". 

We don't have the functionality to allow widgets to move between toolbars but not to specific toolbars (for example, the Bookmarks Toolbar). If the address bar was moved to the bookmarks toolbar and then the bookmarks toolbar got collapsed, users wouldn't know how to get their navigation widgets back.

This type of functionality though is doable by an add-on. An add-on that approaches this problem can probably do a more focused and deeper implementation than what would be done if we needed to implement something that was approachable for 80% of Firefox users.
Status: NEW → RESOLVED
Closed: 7 years ago
Resolution: --- → WONTFIX
This is a big mistake. Up to now, one of the nice features of Firefox is its configurability, and you are in essence removing that. You are imposing a paternalistic structure on the user, like other software that I don't use just because it does this. Let me explain.

The bars at the top take up vertical space. This is a problem on "wide" screens (which could also be called "short"). Thus, users have a good reason to minimize the number of bars. How do we do that? One way is not wasting space within a bar. The menu bar in particular has a lot of wasted space. For the "address bar", you don't need the whole bar, just the field for entering urls. So I have, for the last few years, moved the "address field" into the menu bar. That was always possible, and you have just made it impossible.

I also used Google by typing ctrl-k.

As things are now, I have worked around your seemingly arbitrary, and new, restrictions by eliminating the menu bar. I also removed the search box, but ctrl-k didn't work, so I reported that as a bug, and it is being fixed (950014).

The problem is that my wife likes the menu bar, although she is getting used to using alt keys instead. But why shouldn't it be there? There is room for the five words, plus the address field, plus a couple of icons, in a single bar.

You (or someone) also added a compulsory tab bar. It used to be that the tab bar would appear only when more than one tab is open. This is another example of wasted horizontal space within a bar. I could also put the address field there (although I suppose that some day I might want 20 tabs open at once). This too, I think, is a regression. You are assuming that all users are happy with several bars. They aren't.

My plan was to go back to the way I had things before. A menu bar with the address field in it, and nothing else. The tab bar would open when it was needed. Search would be done with ctrl-k.

80% of Firefox users have had the capacity to do what I did, until you made the address bar unmovable. I don't think there are any bug reports about complaints of the form "hey, my address field disappeared". The people who bother to do configuration at all are going to know that it is a bad idea to put the address field in the bookmark bar, and if they do it by mistake then they will know how to undo it. Do you really think anyone is going to do this? I suspect more people will switch to Chrome or something because they cannot do the kind of configuration that made Firefox so nice.

In sum, what I want is just what has been true for several years. That is why I think this bug is a regression, not a request for a new feature. The change made yesterday was appropriate.
Oh, yes, there is also room for the back/forward buttons in the menu bar, along with the address field. And in fact at least one of those buttons is movable now.
Final comment.

OK, suppose you are right that people will mess up their configuration by moving the address field somewhere. (There are of course countless other ways that people could mess up their configuration, and I hope that nobody has plans to remove them all, since that would essentially end the possibility of configuring anything.) There are other solutions.

The simplest is to make the 5 menus in the menu bar movable. The menu bar itself is now optional, yet these menus are sometimes helpful. I see that there is some movement in this direction, as some of the most common uses in the menu bar - cut, paste, and copy - now have their own icons. But why not the entire menus? There is plenty of room in the (now compulsory) address bar for more menus, especially now that ctrl-k will be working so that we do not need a search field.

General message from me: The possibility of configuring Firefox to satisfy unusual tastes and requirements (such as larger fonts for the rapidly increasing number of aging users with impaired vision, which is what leads to some of my concerns about wasted space) is very important.
Well, if I may, from my point of view the problem isn't really that the address bar cannot be added to other toolbars, but that the position of the address bar is fixed. If I just could move the address bar to the bottom of the window, this wouldn't be an issue for me.
Not to make any reflection on this bugs status, just so no one missed this solution. There is an extension that lets you move the url bar and quite a few other things to solve the layout you wish for.

https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/addon/classicthemerestorer/
(In reply to Cork from comment #14)
> Not to make any reflection on this bugs status, just so no one missed this
> solution. There is an extension that lets you move the url bar and quite a
> few other things to solve the layout you wish for.
> 
> https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/addon/classicthemerestorer/

Not that I've been trying too hard, but I didn't get the extension to solve my problem.
(In reply to dp from comment #15)
> (In reply to Cork from comment #14)
> > Not to make any reflection on this bugs status, just so no one missed this
> > solution. There is an extension that lets you move the url bar and quite a
> > few other things to solve the layout you wish for.
> > 
> > https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/addon/classicthemerestorer/
> 
> Not that I've been trying too hard, but I didn't get the extension to solve
> my problem.

The extension adds back the addon bar, and it makes the urlbar movable. just move the bar to the menu bar or the addon bar if you want it at the bottom of the window.
> […] and it makes the urlbar movable. just
> move the bar to the menu bar or the addon bar if you want it at the bottom
> of the window.

Oh, yes, in the View > Toolbars > Customize mode. Great, thanks!
The restorer doesn't solve my issue...  :P

To me, the Back, Forward, Stop and Reload buttons are "action" items which should be _together_ like they used to be. Now, having to constantly and actively decide (before moving the mouse) on which way to go; as in choose between going upper-left or upper-right to perform one of these actions makes the recent changes ANTI-subliminal.  These four make sense to be together since they all pertain to the *current* page; the page selector drop-down can stay to the right, or anywhere else because it's about going to a new destination, usually unrelated.  Quickly tiring of putting extra miles on my mouse.

As a result of this change, wishing for a "RESOLVED WONTBREAK" status...
(In reply to Pierre Fortin from comment #18)
> The restorer doesn't solve my issue...  :P
> 
> To me, the Back, Forward, Stop and Reload buttons are "action" items which
> should be _together_ like they used to be. Now, having to constantly and
> actively decide (before moving the mouse) on which way to go; as in choose
> between going upper-left or upper-right to perform one of these actions
> makes the recent changes ANTI-subliminal.  These four make sense to be
> together since they all pertain to the *current* page; the page selector
> drop-down can stay to the right, or anywhere else because it's about going
> to a new destination, usually unrelated.  Quickly tiring of putting extra
> miles on my mouse.
> 
> As a result of this change, wishing for a "RESOLVED WONTBREAK" status...

Can you not just move the individual buttons where you please (all clustered together, in your case) by entering customize mode and moving the items?
(In reply to Mike Conley (:mconley) from comment #19)
> Can you not just move the individual buttons where you please (all clustered
> together, in your case) by entering customize mode and moving the items?

Have you even tried to move the Back/Forward and Reload/Stop buttons relative to the URL bar?  On 29.0a1, they are fixed at each end with no way to move them around.  Any attempt moves them WITH the URL bar.  :P
(In reply to Pierre Fortin from comment #20)
> (In reply to Mike Conley (:mconley) from comment #19)
> > Can you not just move the individual buttons where you please (all clustered
> > together, in your case) by entering customize mode and moving the items?
> 
> Have you even tried to move the Back/Forward and Reload/Stop buttons
> relative to the URL bar?  On 29.0a1, they are fixed at each end with no way
> to move them around.  Any attempt moves them WITH the URL bar.  :P

Sorry, I should have been more clear - I meant with the Classic Theme Restorer add-on:

https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/addon/classicthemerestorer/

That should give you the capability that you're looking for.
(In reply to Jonathan Baron from comment #12)
> The simplest is to make the 5 menus in the menu bar movable.

See bug #934095
(In reply to Robert Zenz from comment #22)
> (In reply to Jonathan Baron from comment #12)
> > The simplest is to make the 5 menus in the menu bar movable.
> 
> See bug #93409

That bug is duplicate of bug 934113. But I can't understand what the resolution was. Are the menus movable or not? If they are movable, I am happy and will not need another add-on (assuming that ctrl-k works without the search field present, another bug). I will wait and see.
(In reply to Mike Conley (:mconley) from comment #21)
> Sorry, I should have been more clear - I meant with the Classic Theme
> Restorer add-on:
> 
> https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/addon/classicthemerestorer/
> 
> That should give you the capability that you're looking for.

Argh...  just found it has Prefs in about:addons...  Yay! It also gives me back "Not tabs on top" -- to me, tabs contain pages, NOT bookmarks or anything else that gets between the tabs and their pages.   BTW, my initial comment did refer to the restorer (line 1 in comment 18 :)
30.0a1 somehow overrides classicthemerestorer...  The reload button is now back to the other end where I find myself hunting for it every time I need/want to use it...

Here's an idea:  the middle mouse button is used to open links in a new tab; but it has little(?) or no other use within the displayed page.  Why not send unused middle mouse button clicks to the reload function?
(In reply to Pierre Fortin from comment #25)
> Here's an idea:  the middle mouse button is used to open links in a new tab;
> but it has little(?) or no other use within the displayed page.  Why not
> send unused middle mouse button clicks to the reload function?

Scrolling?
On my system, scrolling is independent from depressing the wheel to generate a click.
For completeness: 
Button  "key"
   1    left
   2    middle
   3    right
   4    scroll forward
   5    scroll backward
HTH
Duplicate of this bug: 1006823
The add-on: https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/addon/classicthemerestorer/ help moving the address bar to the tab bar but the actual bar that held the address bar in first place does not go away, hence no vertical place is freed or in other words, the vertical space is inevitably wasted.

The new "immutability" of tab bar and address bar is a feature foolishly copied from Google Chrome / Chromium and I hated Google Chrome (Midori, Epiphany and all others with "rigid" bars) for that and respected the "libre" nature of 100% flexible Firefox interface.

If a bar was mistakenly removed, it used to automatically appear in the list of available bars from where it could be dragged and dropped back to "ANY" location in the window! That was the perfect situation. If you are worried about security issues related to missing/invisible address bar then all that is needed is to make is "unremovable". Making it "immovable" is a big blunder.
Anyway, that is also too far fetched. My final verdict: "FIREFOX IS NO MORE SECULAR ABOUT BARS" and thinks that plugins will solve the issue. I'm completely against the philosophy of depending on plugins for essential privileges of "secularity" and "security". Until tabs and address bars are not completely customizable by default, bye bye Firefox.
On reviewing the source code of classisthemeresotrer I came across an option of "hidenavbar" which can be accessed from preferences page of the add-on. This rally frees the vertical space occupied by navigation bar. At least the bar management of Firefox is yet not so rigid that hacking the source code would ever be needed.

All I want is a browser interface the consists entirely of the client window and just a single bar on the top equally shared by address field and tabs and a small menu button sitting in a corner on this same horizontal bar. Uninstalling chromium :)

PS:
I never use any buttons in general as following keyboard shortcuts are sufficient and complete:

Open New Tab :      ctrl-t
Close Current Tab:  ctrl-w
Reload:             ctrl-r
Stop:               Esc
Back:               Alt-Left Arrow
Forward:            Alt-Right Arrow
Close the window:   Depends on system (generally Alt-F4 or Ctrl-Q)
Duplicate of this bug: 1005025
PS  ...and keeping the back/forward buttons and the address bar visible is not mutually exclusive with being able to move those items, so why not allow customisation?
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