Closed Bug 92997 (advocacybugs) Opened 23 years ago Closed 22 years ago

Bugs that make Mozilla advocacy harder

Categories

(Core Graveyard :: Tracking, defect)

Product:
Core Graveyard
Component:
Tracking
Type:
defect
Priority:
Not set
Severity:
normal

Tracking

(Not tracked)

Status:
VERIFIED INVALID

People

(Reporter: dev+mozilla, Assigned: dev+mozilla)

References

(Depends on 6 open bugs,
URL
)

Details

(Keywords: meta, Whiteboard: Read comment #87.) 

This is a tracking bug only. It serves to collect the kind of bugs that just
look dumb and make Mozilla advocacy harder.

Mark those bug dependant on this one.
Keywords: meta
Adding some highly visible bugs as dependencies.
Depends on: 42821, 43012, 56472, 56876, 75080, 76164, 76632, 89758
Exchanging the duplicate bug 75080 for the real bug 55086.
Depends on: 55086
No longer depends on: 75080
OS=All.
OS: Windows 2000 → All
Depends on: 45715
Depends on: 30579
Depends on: 50380, 79992, 80494, 86303, 86306
Added a few bugs to the dependency list, related to my comments in the above 
mozillazine talkback i.e. not only "dumb-looking" bugs, but those that are too 
simple not to be fixed at this stage.
I don't think anyone would argue with the ones I've added, but feel free to 
remove those that are more involved than they might appear.

Btw, I'm sympathetic with the old "I should be fixing these bugs myself" 
mantra, but it'll be a few months before I'm in a position to even attempt 
that, unfortunately.
oliver's bug, not chofmann's.
Assignee: chofmann → oliver.klee
QA Contact: chofmann → oliver.klee
Depends on: 93101
No longer depends on: 93101
I think that fixing bug 55454, "Make (new) Modern the mozilla default skin", 
would help Mozilla advocacy.  I've only gotten several friends to download 
Mozilla, but twice so far the following conversation has occurred:

(J mentions that he spends a lot of his time working on Mozilla and convinces H 
to download it and try it out.)
H: Hmm, it looks like Netscape 4.
J: Try View > Apply Theme > Modern.
H: Wow.  Pretty.
H: I'm keeping this.
The summary for this bug is bound to offend somebody. Putting a bug on a list 
of "dumb-looking bugs" is like telling the person workingon the bug "you're too 
stupid to fix this trivial problem". I understand there has already been some 
static over this (macpeep's Mozine post, couldn't find the actual bug it 
happened in)--not that invalidating a bug because it has been marked as 
blocking this is the right thing to do, but it shouldn't be a big surprise that 
it happened.

The owner might want to consider changing the summary to be less insulting to 
developers, and hence more effective for lobbying.

Just my 2 cents.
I agree. The bug I added doesn't look trivial ("dumb")... I added it because
lots of *nix people expect this kind of feature in their mail client and, hence,
it makes mozilla advocacy harder.
Reporter, is this actually tracking bug for:

trivial bugs that make Mozilla advocacy harder

or:

bugs that make Mozilla advocacy harder

or:

important bugs that make Mozilla advocacy harder

?
When you have decided please change the summary and remove/add bugs as
necessary. Thanks!
Depends on: 43015
Ok, I removed the "dumb-looking" part.
Really removing it this time.
Summary: Dumb-looking bugs that make Mozilla advocacy harder → Bugs that make Mozilla advocacy harder
The present summary makes bugs like the lack of PGP support (bug 56052) fit here
perfectly. What do you think? (I refrain from adding it to the list)
Although bug 88297 (alt text tooltips for images) is marked as wontfix, I and
probably many others would like to see this  bug fixed. I know it's not
standards compliant to use alt text as tooltips, but if you use the TITLE tag as
recommended, tooltips will not show up in NS4x. You can work around this issue
by writing both ALT and TITLE text, but how many people are actually going to
take the time to retrofit all of their pages with the TITLE tag? Moreover, major
web publishing packages such as Dreamweaver doesn't even use the TITLE tag
except in hotspots of image maps. If it's decided not to implement this feature
in mozilla, fine, but at least put it the Netscape browser. 
I'd like to add a few more dependencies that make it difficult to recommend 
wider use of Mozilla:
  Bug 82973 Sun compose key isn't recognised
  Bug 87754 When using "Save As" Mozilla does not get correct filename from URL
  Bug 36557 LDAP Support
  Bug 62586 Need Titletips (or tooltips) for Cropped Text in Message Header Pane
  Bug 91662 emails with long subjects make it impossible to see the attachment 
tree and make thread pane go wild, if message pane is visible and you are not in 
"collapsed" header view.
Depends on: 36557, 62586, 82973, 87754, 91662
Adding bug 56052, bug 82973, bug 87754, bug 36557, bug 62586 and bug 91662.

Not adding bug 88297 because I don't think that we whould support non-standard
compliant behavior.

Removing the fixed bug 43012.
Depends on: 56052
No longer depends on: 43012
Adding bug 32157 - [feature] Title tips (tooltips) for cropped texts.
Depends on: titletips
Depends on: 93101
Depends on: 43923
Depends on: 11632
Depends on: stopthewhining
Depends on: 58744
No longer depends on: 11632, 43923, 58744, stopthewhining
Depends on: 72279
Depends on: 11632
Added:
bug 11632: [RFE] Save Page With Images, Stylesheets, Objects, Applets
bug 43923: Support for APOP
bug 58744: 3rd party download managers not supported
bug 72279: NEW - Need visual indicators for Watched, Killed threads
bug 73712: Need Win32 and Linux/GTK icon files for each window

Most of them were deleted by marmot4@hotpop.com before I had time to create a
comment. I hope that was only a mid-air colission.
Depends on: 43923, 58774, stopthewhining
No longer depends on: 72279
Depends on: 58744
No longer depends on: 58774
Depends on: 72279
No longer depends on: 56472
Adding bug 68142: "Print selection" prints only ONE page.
Depends on: 68142
I was tempted to add bug 94870 as a dependency, however I take it that we want 
to keep regression bugs off the list? Otherwise, the number of dependencies on 
this bug could grow too large with each daily build.
Considering that we're tracking those bugs that make advocacy harder, perhaps 
we should also restrict the dependency list to only those bugs that appear in 
the milestone builds?
I think that regressions should go into this bug, too. Same for bugs that are
not in a milestone (yet): If they are not fixed, they will be in the next
milestone(s).

But you are right, we should keep this list from growing too big.

Anyway, I will remove bugs when they are resolved.
Depends on: 94870
Adding bug 65111 about being able to delete a whole thread in mail/news (as
opposed to deleting each message in the thread individually).
Depends on: 65111
Removing bug 65111 because you can expand a thread and highlight the whole
thread to delete it... duh :-\
No longer depends on: 65111
Another bug that should be considered it is bug 30057.
Many people that use Outlook with multiple accounts will find harder to use
Mozilla if they have to be moving between a lot of folders just to read all
their mail.
Attempting to add Bug 62026 (Inline images in news posts not rendered
progressively).

Very difficult to read messages attached to images without it (Especially on a
modem line!). Also very difficult to use newsgroups in the alt.binaries.pictures
heirarchy. (It waits until the entire image is downloaded before showing anything).
Depends on: 62026
No longer depends on: 94870
Adding a few more dependencies, related to HTML validation problems of pages
called by the browser e.g. about: services, help pages, etc.

Before anyone complains that I'm just adding my own bugs to the list (which I
am!), I think these are directly related to this bug's summary. Its difficult to
champion mozilla as a standards compliant browser when its own pages fail w3.org
validation. 
As soon as I get an opportunity, I'll try and wrap these ones up myself - they
are fairly trivial  but, I think, important none the less.
Depends on: 95765, 95768, 95769, 95770, 95772
Depends on: 78344
Added dependency on bug 74157, lack of support for encrypted / signed (S/MIME) mail.
Depends on: 74157
Adding 80834 and removing 93101, which is a duplicate.
Depends on: 80834
No longer depends on: 93101
Removing bug 87754 (invalid and being evangelized)
No longer depends on: 87754
Oliver: might I suggest leaving bugs that are resolved/verified on this list?

1. It serves as a reference to see how many of these important bugs were
actually resolved.
2. If they ever are re-opened, it will be noted here too.  This is an issue
because unless a bug is marked "CLOSED" it can always be re-opened.  Bugs have
no guarantee of staying fixed.
3. It saves the people on resolved bugs one more spam email (which isn't a real
reason since spam is life on Bugzilla, but thought i'd toss it in anyway).
Actually, I believe even a bug that's CLOSED can be REOPENED.
Christopher: OK, I'll leave those bugs here. Duplicates should be an exception,
though (when they are verified).
Depends on: 87207
Depends on: 98967
Replacing duplicate.
Depends on: 37685
No longer depends on: 98967
No longer depends on: 37685
Depends on: 37685
Adding bug 79240 - Same tooltips for back/forward/print buttons and drop-downs 
(not too urgent as IE gets this wrong too).
Depends on: 79240
I'd like to add a some web developers issues:

bug 55583 - view-source should show original source (use cached source)
bug 11520 - [RFE] Ability to view stylesheet source
bug 24478 - View image should put Width x Height in the title of window
bug 82059 - Page Info design tracking bug (missing items) 
            [all Page Info issues are important for developers]

User issues:
bug 10491 - Show link as :visited if opened in another window
bug 41924 - Change how layout handles broken images (alt text)
bug 22687 - [RFE] PGP Plugin
bug 22056 - Show toolbars as text/icons/both
bug 68136 - Mozilla should have a Full-screen mode



Adam Hauner: This bug is not for tracking cool features that will make Mozilla
look better (advocacy easier).  It is for tracking "embarassing" bugs that makes
Mozilla look bad (advocacy harder).  Bug 55086 was a prime example of that.

55583 is probably the only bug on your list that can be considered a bug that
makes advocacy harder IMO...
Depends on: 20943
until bug 51142 is fixed i have trouble recomending mozilla.
Depends on: 51142
No longer depends on: 56052
Depends on: 56052
On the basis of earlier comments #34 and #35, shouldn't bug 55583 be added to
the dependency list? (I think it should.)
Depends on: 55583
Depends on: 98252, 109249
Depends on: 47251
Depends on: 89885
Depends on: 36810
I'm not sure, if bug 36810 is right one - futured non-assigned enhancement with
keyword halpwanted...
It's what I meant to add... IMHO, it should be assigned and being worked on
since this "enhancement" is probably costing Mozilla many users who will choose
some other browser that includes this feature (read galeon).

I used galeon for a while recently and, personally, I was very glad to be able
to get back all my tabs after galeon crashed or I shut it down for whatever reason.

However, if the bug in question is deemed not to belong here, feel free to
remove it :-)
This tracking bug is about bugs that make Mozilla look bad, i.e. bugs that would
make users turn away if we try to get them to use Mozilla.

This bug is not about features that would just make Mozilla cool. Removing the
dependency on bug 36810.
No longer depends on: 36810
Depends on: 120946, 121142
Depends on: 82151
Adding: 
bug 120087 - page is layed out with a top margin several pages high
(www.tomshardware.com)
bug 4302 - PgUp/PgDn in editor (textarea...) don't move caret/cursor
bug 22607 - GIF decoder doesn't support all frame replacement options
bug 33269 - Back/Forward Page Performance is slow compared to IE/Opera
bug 57599 - Mozilla doesn't line-break tooltips
bug 62556 - Scrolling an overflow:scroll page causes reflow
bug 77989 - javascript-generated and data: documents wait 1.2s before painting
bug 101618 - animated GIFS are printing black
bug 108176 - Tooltips in <A HREF TITLE> stop displaying after new tab is created
Depends on: 4302, 22607, 33269, 57599, 62556, 77989, 101618, 108176, 120087
Depends on: errorpages
bug 56301 - spellchecker. I know several people that keep using Netscape 4 and
refuse to switch to Mozilla until it has the spellchecker.
Depends on: spellchecker
Depends on: 64476
Bug 64476 - threads with unread returns false positives: still can't believe
that this bug hasn't been fixed yet.
Depends on: 11459, 70030
Depends on: 7251, 17048, 83289, 91351
Depends on: 45375
I'd like to nominate Bug 105263. DND HTML bookmarks was the only feature that
kept me using NS4.x for so long.
Depends on: delete-attachment
Depends on: 105263
Adding bug 116273 (Mozilla can't render the news.bbc.co.uk site correctly). Its
too embarassing to recommend Mozilla to anyone in the UK whilst this bug is
outstanding. (See also bug 125056).
Depends on: 116273
Since bug 83289 is listed in "depends", I would like to very similar problems
with bad font renderring: there are missing 1 pixel horizontal lines in text
(fonts) while scrolling. This doesn't happen on every page, but cca on 1/10 of them.

See bug 131107, bug 129400, bug 80530 (and cca 10 others, see comments) ... and
finally bug 63336 (could be the source of this problem).

I uploaded some screenshots of the problem at
http://Xtrmntr.org/ORBman/tmp/hlp/
Depends on: 14373
adding self to cc list
Depends on: 24954
I would _very_ strongly recommend adding bug #62460.

Not sure if I should do this myself. Someone else?
I would _very_ strongly recommend adding bug #62460.

Not sure if I should do this myself. Someone else?
Depends on: 99441
Depends on: 62460
Any DHTML perf bugs ? :)

Markus: I think bug 129115 is one of the Big Win bugs for DHTML perf. But, of
course, you already knew that, since you're CC'd on that bug as well :).
Depends on: 21762
Adding some bugs which heavily impact Mozilla's image as a browser capable of DHTML.
Depends on: 129115, 129953, 137706
Is bug 7251 still an embarrassment?  I think it's pretty reasonable nowadays
(even on my relatively low-spec machine), even without that pre-loading feature
('quicklaunch' or something, I forget the name).

I'll leave bug 7251 in for a while as still this one of the main complaints by
some of my friends about Mozilla on Linux.
Depends on: 51683
Are we supposed to be removing FIXED bugs from the blockers list?  Currently, 30
of 87 are closed.
No, "fixed" bugs can sometimes be reopened. And it makes it easier to gauge
progress.
Status: NEW → ASSIGNED
I'd like to nominate bug 117371, see
http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=117371#c7:

The top text: "Enable features that help interpret web pages" is
incredibly inaccurate. It has nothing to do with the cache, proxies, HTTP
networking, the Mouse Wheel, anonymous FTP, or much of the other advanced options
adding bug 33732 re mousewheels on Windows.  With many older mouse drivers, the
mouse-wheel will only scroll the 1st list -- no matter where else you click. 
The workaround, for Logitech mice, is to enable the "Office97-compatible"
option, but this is not mentioned in the Release Notes.
Depends on: 33732
Depends on: 82534
does anyone the number of the TechEvang/bank-Tracking bug? It should also be
added...
is there a tracking bug for startup performance?
Yes there is.  It blocks the 1.0 performance tracking bug, which blocks the 1.0 
tracking bug.
ok, there they are:

bug 124594 is the bank TechEvang tracking bug

bug 7251 is the startup performance (which is already in this looong list)
I nominate bug 104532, status bar not updating on tab switch.
nominating bug 148364 and bug 124699 - with supporting useless propietary HTML,
you can't expect people to understand, why we don't support document.all or <layer>
Depends on: TabSwitchStatusBar
Depends on: 46845
I would like to add:

Bug 122927 New windows are not opened in java applets if "open unrequested
windows" preference is not selected

This bug refutes any useful claim that Mozilla can "block popup ads", which it
does, but at the expense of a fairly major productivity hit.
Depends on: 129992
I guess 129992 was a Typo - that's Trash, but not a valid bug
No longer depends on: 129992
No longer depends on: 33269
Depends on: 156493
No longer depends on: 62460
Nominating bug 109607: 

Tabs are almost useless in Classic because you can't identify the active one. 
Look at this screenshot:
http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=78182&action=view
Depends on: 109607
guanxi, I have seen the same problem before, but on most systems it doesn't look
like that (i.e. it looks normal). It came as a result of some 3rd-party app I'd
installed. I think it was the tabbrowser extensions. The same thing may be the
case with you.
Nominating bug 32218. I replace the default splash screen with a modified
Slater5 everywhere I install it because it's caused some bad first impressions.
I'm sticking with my nomination of bug 109607 in comment #66 despite Shark
Daddy's comment #67.  Many have confirmed it (see bug 109607) and only Shark has
said otherwise.

Please do NOT discuss further here; post to bug 109607 where it belongs.  Any
contributions to the bug, including anything that might support Shark's
observation, would be appreciated.
Nominating bug 159424 
because it breaks many working applications.
I would also like to nominate bug 139258 because without crypto.signText()
mozilla is not usable for some real web applications.

Actually I added them to the dependency list.
Depends on: 139258, 159424
Alias: advocacybugs
Depends on: 164421
I wouldn't use Gecko for important stuff should bug 122063 occur on an important
site. (see last url)
cc to myself.
Bug 137901 ("Context menus: Swap page and frame related options")is also a good 
candidate for this list!

It is more and more becoming a "political" thing... :-(
Depends on: 137901
Depends on: 16409
Bug 16409: Spellchecker for the browser window (form fields) - similar to 
www.iespell.com

The lack of a browser spellchecker is exactly why I'm posting this from (god 
forbid) IE6.
I know that I can copy the text to external application or to 
www.spellcheck.net, but once you start using a built-in spellchecker... you're 
hooked.

Prog.
prognathous: You are aware that there's a Spellchecker available for Mozilla,
right? ;) http://spellchecker.mozdev.org/ (bug 56301)
Alex, neither Bug 56301 nor the Mozdev spellchecker are related to my 
suggestion.

The difference is simple, both are targeted at other Mozilla components 
(Composer and Mail&News), while Bug 16409 is focused on the browser itself, 
Navigator.

A good example is the textarea I'm using right now to write this message, I 
would love it to feature spellcheking as IE does with iespell.

I hope it's clearer now.

Prog.

Some of these bugs are fixed and assigned How can any bug that is fixed or
assigned be dumb? Or do i misunderstand?
> Some of these bugs are fixed and assigned How can any bug that is fixed or
> assigned be dumb? Or do i misunderstand?

Because when they were added to this bug, they weren't fixed. :-)


Bug 161109: Make annoying animations (such as (text-decoration: blink;|<BLINK>)
and <MARQUEE>) optional.
Depends on: 161109
See comment #29 why bugs stay on this list even when they are fixed.
Depends on: killfile
Bug 17483: News filters (yeah, like we're gonna attract people with absolutely
*no* killfile capabilities).
Blocks: 169476
Also, bug 18004: Mozilla does not resume interrupted downloads.
Depends on: 18004
I'd like to nominate <a
href="http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=148719">Bug 148719</a>:
Advertising P3P features in Help when they don't exist in the build (and may
never by the look of some of the comments in Bug 62399)
Depends on: 148719
Depends on: 170272
Depends on: dynamicfonts
Bug 53422 In bookmarks, the Edit | Undo menu item doesn't activate at all

Bug 90584 Codepage used for message displaying must be applied for Subject also

Bug 158759 Printing a selection gives a black-on-black printout
Depends on: 53422, 90584, 158759
I'd liek to nominate 85655 (copy & paste into TO: line ignores addresses after a CR)

This is the one thing that our users complain about when we ask them to use
Mozilla for Mail (we're trying to get them OFF Eudora without converting to Outlook)

Simply put - you can't cut and paste a list of email addresses into the Compose
window, an address book mailing list edit window, etc.  You can only paste one
address at a time.  Think about it - to create a large mailing list in Mozilla,
you have to type in or cut and paste each address instead of grabbing the whole
list from an email, Excel, etc.  

I have a number of users who see this as the #1 issue in using Mozilla -
otherwise they really like MailNews.  This is something just about any mail
client can handle.  Mozilla Mailnews needs to be able to do this.
Depends on: 85655
Hmmm...while I saw some merit in opening this tracking bug when it was opened,
this has turned into a bug that anyone can add to and it now serves as a conduit
to publicize 'my bug,' bugs which aren't really important on the grand scheme,
but are annoying to one particular user. Not only does this accomplish nothing,
but it is detrimental to those bugs that were originally put here in (for lack
of a less harsh term) good faith; it's being abused, and perhaps it should be
closed or at least looked at. I'm not about to remove dependencies and suffer
the backlash, but this is getting pretty silly. That might be why it blocks bug
169476...
You are right. I have put "clean up that bug" on my to-do list a few days ago,
but now it seems that I have to do something.

1. I resolve this bug as INVALID, as it mainly creates spam.
2. When Bugzilla allows tracking bugs that don't create as much spam as this one
does, I'll either create a successor bug or reopen this bug and make it work the
new way.

Sorry, folks, for having to close this bug, and sorry for all the spam caused by
the bug.
Status: ASSIGNED → RESOLVED
Closed: 22 years ago
Resolution: --- → INVALID
Whiteboard: Read comment #87.
V (Mwahaha)
Status: RESOLVED → VERIFIED
No longer depends on: 90584
No longer depends on: 164421
Re: Comment 87

Well, there is an interesting similar tracking bug, but in that case based on
number of votes, CCs and duplicates. It's bug 163993: "[META] Mozilla Bugs with
Large Community Interest". Criteria are 50/50/50 (votes or CCs or dups).

There are some other bugs (bug 15806, bug 16508) suggesting the implementation
of vote summary statistics.

Sent should behave exactly like the Templates folder, where messages when double
clicked it is opened in a compose window instead of a view window, and when the
message is sent, it stays in the folder (sent and templates).
Depends on: 158306
No longer depends on: 89885
No longer depends on: 17048
No longer blocks: 169476
No longer depends on: 21762
Depends on: 21762
Product: Core → Core Graveyard
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