156121 - Revert changes to Bookmarks menu items

Status: RESOLVED WONTFIX

(SeaMonkey :: Bookmarks & History, defect)

Description

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

On the Mozilla 1.0 branch, after 1.0, I see the following changes to the
Bookmarks menu:
1. A 'Bookmark this group of tabs" (bug 148840)
2. "Add to Bookmarks" has been changed to "Bookmark this page" (bug 141333)

I think that neither of that is an improvement, rather makes usability worse.

1. Tabs and then even bookmarking a set of tabs is a quite advanced feature. I
think that the checkbox in the File Bookmark... dialog is completely sufficient.

The reason mentioned for adding it - "Add "Bookmark This Group of Tabs..." to
Bookmarks menu to make it easier to discover this feature." - is bogus for such
an advanced, non-essential feature. If you want to advertize features, do it on
a webpage.

2. "Bookmark this page" has about 0 differentitation to "File Bookmark...".
"File Bookmark..." also 'bookmarks this page'. I think that "Add Bookmark" was
slightly more clear that is adds to the menu menu/folder.

Reason mentioned for change:
> Currently the context menu item for adding a bookmark immediately
> (Bookmark This Page) and the one in the Bookmarks menu (Add Bookmark) are
> inconsistent. Pixeljockeys decided to standardise on Bookmark This Page for
> both - so the Bookmarks menu item needs to change name.

I think you picked the wrong one :-).


I suggest to revert both changes.

Comment 1

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

> I think that "Add Bookmark" was slightly more clear that is adds to the menu
> menu/folder.

Actually, the old wording was "Add to Bookmarks", which is maybe eben a bit
better, because the main menu is called "Bookmarks".

I don't think that the old wording was clear enough, however. I would suggest
"Add to main Bookmarks" and "File Bookmark in folder...", but that (esp. the
latter) would (together with the shortcut keys) make the menu considerably
wider, which would decrease usability.
Better suggestions welcome. In the meantime, I think that the old wording was
the best known solution.

Comment 2

[Jason Bassford]

>> Pixeljockeys decided to standardise on Bookmark This Page for
>> both - so the Bookmarks menu item needs to change name.

> I think you picked the wrong one :-).

Agreed.  See bug 135417.

> "Add "Bookmark This Group of Tabs..." to Bookmarks menu
> to make it easier to discover this feature." - is bogus for such
> an advanced, non-essential feature.

I disagree "in principle".  Given the vocal number of people who wanted to see
tab groups implemented, it's something that has quickly become a given.  (Opera
already does this.)

However, I say "in principle" because I DO agree that there is too much clutter
in the Bookmarks menu - not least of all because of bug 149625, which I opened a
month ago and which STILL hasn't received any attention...  Bookmarking the
current group of tabs SHOULD be easily discovered - but it should not be
presented in the UI as is it currently is.

I personally feel that the UI should be changed to:

Bookmarks
 Bookmark Web Page(s)...
 Manage Bookmarks

In other words, first remove "Bookmark This Page" and "Bookmark This Group of
Tabs...".  I feel that both of those are covered by the currently named "File
Bookmark..." and there's no real reason for the redundancy.  Removing one
without removing the other would be somewhat pointless in general and would just
open debate on why one (and not the other) was taken out.  I feel that
bookmarking a single tab is just as important as bookmarking a group of tabs -
so both should be treated in a similar fashion.

Secondly, "File Bookmark..." should be renamed to something that makes more
sense to the lay person - such as "Bookmark Web Page(s)..."  When I first saw
"File Bookmark..." appear in the UI I wasn't QUITE sure what it meant (although
I could make a good guess and my assumptions were borne out when I clicked on it
to investigate).  If I wasn't quite sure what it meant, I find it hard to
believe that a non-technical person would have a better time of it.  ("File the
bookmark where?  How is that different from just bookmarking it?")

Comment 3

[Matthias Versen [:Matti]]

*** Bug 157482 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Comment 4

[Jason Bassford]

Does anybody want to comment on suggested UI changes in comment 2?  Am I off my
rocker, or does it at least make some kind of partial sense?

Comment 5

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

jason: That would be another bug. But it is quite likely that it will be WONTIFX.

Comment 6

[Mark]

I agree that the bookmarks menu should return to the previous design.  The
changes make it more confusing and, the available option already existed. 
"Bookmark this Group of Tabs" duplicates the behaviour of the "File Bookmark"
option with only the check enabled.  If it's kept simple, it's usable and users
still have the ability to bookmark a group of open tabs.

The 'Bookmark' menu only needs the following options:
 - Add Bookmark
 - File Bookmark
 - Manage Bookmarks

Comment 7

[Hogarth]

Tabs have their own right-click menu. Why not put something like:

Bookmark Tab
Bookmark All Tabs

to it (wording chosen to keep it in current theme :).

It seems like the logical place for it (it's a menu in the context of the tab
bar and so functions in it, be default, relate to tabs) and it shouldn't be
messy. It should also still be easily discoverable...

Comment 8

[HJ]

1) move "Bookmarks/Manage Bookmarks" to menu Tools (like all other 'managers')
and rename it to "Bookmark(s) Manager".

2) "Bookmark This Page" should be renamed into "Bookmark This Tab" for tabbed mode.

3) "Bookmark This Group of Tabs" should be renamed to "Bookmark All Tabs" and only 
visible when in tabbed mode, even if disabled. Make sure to add it right under
"Bookmark This Page/Tab".

Just my $0.02

Comment 9

[Matthew T (active 1999-2002)]

*** Bug 149625 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Comment 10

[Samir Gehani]

Nav triage team: nsebta1-

Comment 11

[Ben Goodger (use ben at mozilla dot org for email)]

Mass reassign of my non-Firefox bugs to [e-mail]

Comment 12

[Shriramana Sharma]

Opinion:
I think that having "Bookmark this tab" and "Bookmark all these tabs" should be
separate, and not merged together like in Firefox.

Reason:
My experience in Firefox

Explanation:
Once in Firefox I hit "Bookmark this page" and forgot to check on the "Bookmark
all tabs in a folder", when I really wanted to save all the links. I hurriedly
closed my Firefox window and went off. Later I found my mistake and had to
retrieve all the links by spending time browsing again. SeaMonkey does not allow
me to do that mistake and it is right.

But I see no sense in allowing me to switch off "Bookmark this group of tabs" in
the checkbox in the "Fiie bookmark" dialog when I have entered it by hitting the
very Bookmarks menu item "Bookmark this group of tabs".

Also:
Please see my comment at bug 141619. Adding self to cc list. I have also filed a
bug with Firefox: bug 300751 asking for a separate menu item "Bookmark This
Group of Tabs" like in SeaMonkey.