thunderbird help menu revamp

RESOLVED FIXED in Thunderbird 68.0

Status

enhancement
RESOLVED FIXED
4 years ago
28 days ago

People

(Reporter: mkmelin, Assigned: khushil324)

Tracking

Trunk
Thunderbird 68.0
Dependency tree / graph

Thunderbird Tracking Flags

(thunderbird68+ affected)

Details

Attachments

(4 attachments, 11 obsolete attachments)

30.52 KB, patch
bwinton
: review-
Details | Diff | Splinter Review
110.07 KB, image/png
Details
396.75 KB, image/png
Details
20.13 KB, patch
Details | Diff | Splinter Review
Reporter

Description

4 years ago
Posted patch bugXXX_help_menu.patch (obsolete) — Splinter Review
We should sync up the Help menu for the changes Firefox has made.

- add keyboard shortcuts menu item
- add feedback menu item
 * input.mozilla.org now supports multiple apps, so we should have them add thunderbird

In addition

- add healthreport menu item: health report is not enabled for thunderbird, but we probably should see to that at some point

- add make a donation link menu item
 * firefox doesn't have this
 * I'll get a bug to port bug 1074896 to tb soon too, the URL will of course change)

What's new and release notes are not in firefox, but I think we should keep them.

Help URLs will need to be fixed, but let's handle this first.


---

I can't test this on mac, hopefully it works! I've basically copy-pasted as much as I could from firefox, and made the needed modifications.
Attachment #8566661 - Flags: review?(bwinton)
Reporter

Updated

4 years ago
Blocks: 619735

Comment 1

4 years ago
(In reply to Magnus Melin from comment #0)
> Created attachment 8566661 [details] [diff] [review]
> bugXXX_help_menu.patch
> 
> We should sync up the Help menu for the changes Firefox has made.
> 
> - add keyboard shortcuts menu item

Yippeee!!! Finally... See, told ya! ;)
Comment on attachment 8566661 [details] [diff] [review]
bugXXX_help_menu.patch

Review of attachment 8566661 [details] [diff] [review]:
-----------------------------------------------------------------

When I try running it, I get:
  JavaScript strict warning: chrome://global/content/bindings/tree.xml, line 50: ReferenceError: reference to undefined property this.treeBoxObject.columns
and:
  JavaScript error: chrome://messenger/content/msgMail3PaneWindow.js, line 1701: TypeError: Argument 1 of MutationObserver.observe is not an object.
and:
  JavaScript error: chrome://messenger/content/tabmail.xml, line 1067: TypeError: tab is undefined

So I'm going to have to say "r-" based on those.

(But aside from that, and the things I mention below, it seems mostly good.  :)

::: mail/base/content/baseMenuOverlay.xul
@@ +22,5 @@
> +#ifdef XP_MACOSX
> +<!-- nsMenuBarX hides these and uses them to build the Application menu.
> +     When using Carbon widgets for Mac OS X widgets, some of these are not
> +     used as they only apply to Cocoa widget builds. All version of Firefox
> +     through Firefox 2 will use Carbon widgets. -->

I think we can could this to mention "Thunderbird" instead of "Firefox".
(If you want.  I wouldn't insist on it. :)

@@ +55,2 @@
>  #else
> +                  />

If we put the "/>" on its own line, we wouldn't need this "#else" case.

::: mail/base/content/utilityOverlay.js
@@ +231,5 @@
> +/**
> + * Open the donations page.
> + */
> +function openDonationsPage() {
> +  var url = "https://sendto.mozilla.org/page/contribute/Give-Now?source=mozillaorg_default_footer&ref=thunderbird_help_donate&utm_campaign=thunderbird_help_donate&tm_source=thunderbird&tm_medium=referral&utm_content=20140929_FireFoxAbout";

Have we talked to the people responsible for that page?  I feel like they might want a head's up…

@@ +247,5 @@
> +          {contentPage: "about:support",
> +           clickHandler: "specialTabs.aboutClickHandler(event);" });
> +}
> +
> +//#ifdef MOZ_SERVICES_HEALTHREPORT

Why is this pragma commented out?  Should we just remove it instead?

@@ +281,5 @@
> +    return;
> +  if (where == "tab") {
> +    openContentTab(url);
> +  }
> +  else {

Could we put the else on the same line as the }?
(I'm also not going to insist on this, if you would rather not.)

::: mail/locales/en-US/chrome/messenger/baseMenuOverlay.dtd
@@ +1,5 @@
>  <!-- This Source Code Form is subject to the terms of the Mozilla Public
>     - License, v. 2.0. If a copy of the MPL was not distributed with this
>     - file, You can obtain one at http://mozilla.org/MPL/2.0/. -->
>  
> +<!--

Why are these commented out?
Attachment #8566661 - Flags: review?(bwinton) → review-
Reporter

Comment 3

4 years ago
Dunno if this has any chance of landing before string freeze but... anyway.
Someone on mac needs to test if it works properly. 

When it lands there's still some server side work to do so that everything works, but at least we got the strings in. We may end up hiding donation and or feedback items based on how that gets sorted out.

(Most things is just synching up with firefox.)
Attachment #8566661 - Attachment is obsolete: true
Attachment #8698169 - Flags: review?(bwinton)
Comment on attachment 8698169 [details] [diff] [review]
bug1134760_help_menu.patch

On Mac I'm still getting:
  JavaScript error: chrome://messenger/content/msgMail3PaneWindow.js, line 1716: TypeError: Argument 1 of MutationObserver.observe is not an object.
  JavaScript error: chrome://messenger/content/devtools/dbg-messenger-overlay.js, line 38: TypeError: viewPopup is null
  JavaScript error: chrome://messenger/content/tabmail.xml, line 1072: TypeError: tab is undefined
…and I find it hard to believe that the state it's in isn't causing any test breakage.  Can I see a clean try-run with all the tests before you re-request review, just to make sure it's not my odd environment breaking things?

Thanks,
Blake.
Attachment #8698169 - Flags: review?(bwinton) → review-

Updated

3 years ago
See Also: → 1272972
Magnus, does this bug cover both the hamburger help menu and menu bar?
Flags: needinfo?(mkmelin+mozilla)
Blake, do you know the state of "Input" these days?  This relates to adding the feedback menu->Input. Two years ago mozilla were willing to add Thunderbird per the idea floated in bug 1081936. However a) I recently read they were going to replace Input, b) it's utility may be short lived for us if we leave Mozilla.  Plus we'd need someone to monitor it.  

I'm not trying to kill the idea - it's a good one on the surface. But just fleshing out the issues.
Flags: needinfo?(bwinton)
Reporter

Comment 7

3 years ago
Yes this changes the appmenu too.
Flags: needinfo?(mkmelin+mozilla)
I don't know, sorry…  I've pinged a couple of people who might, and hopefully one of them will respond.
Flags: needinfo?(bwinton)
Hey folks. I am the product manager for Input. We are not actively developing the site at this point and *may* be moving to an alternative at some point in the near future. Unfortunately that means we are unable to support new products with the current implementation.

Updated

3 years ago
See Also: → 1284709
Reporter

Comment 10

Last month

(The attached patch may or may not be a good starting point.)

Assignee: mkmelin+mozilla → alessandro
Status: ASSIGNED → NEW
Type: defect → task
Reporter

Comment 11

Last month

Over to Khushil.

Assignee: alessandro → khushil324

I've copied Alessandro and more support folks because my main reason for posting is to suggest a couple more additions to the help menu that involve support, website or publicity. I think we can decide quickly enough whether to do this for ESR68.

Part of the reasoning is many users don't download TB from our website (think linux and portable users, users visiting certain press articles or third party DL sites, etc), and so they will never have seen the website info before using the product. Another reason is we need to toot our own horn - existing users need to know this isn't a dead project or on life support. (Yes, we have the start page, but some users disable that)

Donations is already mentioned in this bug. And "keyboard shortcuts" and "features" menu items is also in the patch. Seem thoughts about "Submit feedback" [1] and features [2] below.

I suggest also:

  • add something like "Volunteer" (aka get involved) - we always need more help in beta, support, etc - and you don't get that without asking. You've got to ask.
  • add a menu item that shows Thunderbird is alive and well, with content that isn't static so they will want to come back for more. (One can argue the release notes does that - but that's about product, not about the organization) Perhaps the Blog?

Other suggestions?

[1] "Submit feedback" - we need to decide whether to have one at this time and where to point it - SUMO? We have NO means to aggregate SUMO feedback. Nor can we distinguish in SUMO which items are problem reports and which are suggestions or feedback. In short any suggestions we get are largely lost. So we have two choices - point users to SUMO and hopefully the link later to a proper survey tool. Or we put in the strings now but not expose it in the UI yet, and decide later where to point it to. (Firefox points to https://qsurvey.mozilla.com/s3/FirefoxInput/ )

[2] "Features" - "Firefox Tour" points to a KB article in SUMO. But we currently don't have a good KB article. I suggest we point to https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/features/ (which will get even better after Alessandro's revisions)

Status: NEW → ASSIGNED
Type: task → enhancement
Flags: needinfo?(alessandro)
Posted image Firefox and Thunderbird help.png (obsolete) —

Note

  • one of the Thunderbird menu separator lines should be removed IMO, Troubleshooting should be grouped with Restart with addons disabled.
  • help in the appmenu is missing a separator line below "release notes"

Maybe we could consider adding a direct link to our new and optimized developer documentation (https://developer.thunderbird.net/), since Ryan spent a lot of time on that one and it's looking pretty modern, and it's way easier to follow than the one on developer.mozilla.org.

Maybe we could have a generic menu item called "Developer Documentation", or we could even add a new section with links to specific pages, eg. "Add-on Documentation", "Report a Bug", "Fixing a Bug", etc.

I agree that a link to the Blog should definitely be in there.

Flags: needinfo?(alessandro)

Perhaps a different bug, but I also noticed that in Firefox clicking directly on Help doesn't shunt you to SUMO, it funnels you to the help submenu. I think I prefer that to Thunderbird's behavior, which sends you directly to SUMO.

Reporter

Comment 16

Last month

(In reply to Wayne Mery (:wsmwk) from comment #13)

  • one of the Thunderbird menu separator lines should be removed IMO,
    Troubleshooting should be grouped with Restart with addons disabled.

Not seeing this separator on linux trunk at least.

  • help in the appmenu is missing a separator line below "release notes"

The app-menu is broken on trunk. Revival and some redesigning in bug 1546309.

Reporter

Comment 17

Last month

I think we don't want to add too many menu items only to link to the site.
We don't have any place to point "Submit feedback" to atm, so let's not add that.

To show Thunderbird is alive and well, can we just improve the What's new?
That's also a page we should consider popping up in a tab or into the browser at some good opportunity after an upgrade.

(In reply to Magnus Melin [:mkmelin] from comment #16)

  • help in the appmenu is missing a separator line below "release notes"

The app-menu is broken on trunk. Revival and some redesigning in bug 1546309.

my comments about the separators are based on ESR.

(In reply to Magnus Melin [:mkmelin] from comment #17)

I think we don't want to add too many menu items only to link to the site.

I had thought about adding too much - but these are distinct pages with focused purpose, and Help is the smallest of our smallest menus (plus half the size of most menus). So I don't see a downside to adding a few items.

We don't have any place to point "Submit feedback" to atm, so let's not add that.

Are you saying also don't want to add placeholder strings?

To show Thunderbird is alive and well, can we just improve the What's new?

I don't think that will have the effect I am looking for.

(But it led me to discover, I think, that almost none of our SUMO KB articles point back to www.thunderbird.net )

Assignee

Comment 19

Last month
Attachment #9065143 - Flags: review?(mkmelin+mozilla)
Attachment #9065143 - Flags: feedback?(vseerror)
Comment on attachment 9065143 [details] [diff] [review]
Bug-1134760_thunderbird-help-menu-revamp.patch

As a general comment, I think we should have 2-3 sections, divided by separator lines, in the following order 
1. product usage information - help, keyboard, features, various "what's new"
2. debug and troubleshooting information - eg troubleshooting and restart with addons disabled
3. other information - 
But maybe having separator lines is not the modern way?

Regarding the screen shot, my feedback based on my earlier comments and other's comments
- Features is missing (section 1?)
- Alex and I are both interested in having Blog listed (section 3?)
- Someone suggested developer info (section 2?)
- Submit feedback should be in the code but not exposed in the UI until we have a feedback facility
That would be only 3 additions, one in each section.

I'd like see volunteer featured in some way, but maybe that's too much?

Alex, have I missed anything?
Flags: needinfo?(alessandro)
Attachment #9065143 - Flags: feedback?(vseerror) → feedback-

I forgot "Donate" is also a new addition.

Maybe it would be less busy as two sections rather than three?

Assignee

Comment 23

Last month

So I guess this should be the order :

help
keyboard (New, Link Added)
features (New, Link: https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/features/)
donation (New, Link Added)
What's new
Release Notes
------------ (Separator)
Volunteer/ Get involved (New, Link to be decided, Label to be decided)(developer info can be part of this.)
Troubleshooting
Restart
------------ (Separator)
Blog (New, Link to be decided, Label to be decided)
About

Wayne, do you want any changes with the order? Can you help me with the links and labels?

Flags: needinfo?(vseerror)

I like this direction and the amount of links.
I would update the donation link to be "Make a Donation" in order to be consistent with other sections (About dialog, first page, etc.)

The blog link is this one: https://blog.mozilla.org/thunderbird/
For the label, we could have:

  • Blog
  • Read the Blog
  • Official Blog
  • Thunderbird Blog

I'd also add a link below the blog to our new dev docs.
Developer Documentation: https://developer.thunderbird.net/

Flags: needinfo?(alessandro)
Reporter

Comment 25

Last month

I agree the feedback item could be very useful, but we do have to find somewhere to point that to. So let's add the item, but hidden for now.

Neither Submit Feedback nor the Make a Donation should have ellipsis (Firefox have this wrong).

For the blog and developer documentation, it's hard to make a case for it. These are the things that can, and are linked from the thunderbird main page. Importantly, they are also NOT localized in any way, which is a show-stopper for in-product links.

More of mirroring Firefox, I'd make it sectioned by functionality (outside vs. internal ui)


Thunderbird Help
Thunderbird Website
Keyboard Shortcuts
Make a Donation
Submit Feedback

Troubleshooting Information
Restart with Add-ons Disabled...

About Thunderbird

This removes direct links to release notes, and the what's new page. It should all be easily findable through the website really, or something's wrong with the website (the website item is new addition)

Reporter

Comment 26

Last month
Comment on attachment 9065143 [details] [diff] [review]
Bug-1134760_thunderbird-help-menu-revamp.patch

Review of attachment 9065143 [details] [diff] [review]:
-----------------------------------------------------------------

::: mail/app/profile/all-thunderbird.js
@@ +105,5 @@
> +// Base url for web-based feedback pages.
> +pref("app.feedback.baseURL", "https://input.mozilla.org/%LOCALE%/feedback/%APP%/%VERSION%/");
> +
> +// URL for Donation page.
> +pref("app.donationURL", "https://donate.mozilla.org/en-GB/thunderbird/");

We don't want to have this as a pref... and please make it https://donate.mozilla.org/thunderbird/

@@ +108,5 @@
> +// URL for Donation page.
> +pref("app.donationURL", "https://donate.mozilla.org/en-GB/thunderbird/");
> +
> +// URL for Keyboard Shortcuts
> +pref("app.keyboardShortcutsURL", "https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/keyboard-shortcuts");

no locale in the pref please. please see the earlier patch for this
Attachment #9065143 - Flags: review?(mkmelin+mozilla)
Assignee

Comment 27

Last month
Attachment #9065143 - Attachment is obsolete: true
Attachment #9065144 - Attachment is obsolete: true
Attachment #9065365 - Flags: review?(mkmelin+mozilla)

keybaord shortcuts should be next to Thunderbird help.

The screen shots are Mac, so I assume that "About Thunderbird" has not been removed for the other OS.

For the blog and developer documentation, it's hard to make a case for it.

Developer may be a stretch. But our UX person has requested blog.

And so again I make the case for more direct visibility. We want to educate users, and we want more participation, then these things must be in front of our users eyes, which means in the product. Having it on the website is great, sure, it's available. But it's not in the product, so it's simply not visible to our users.

It seems part of what's driving your opinion is a fascination with minimizing the size of menu - I fail to understand how that trumps other goals.

Flags: needinfo?(vseerror)
Assignee

Comment 30

Last month

(In reply to Wayne Mery (:wsmwk) from comment #29)

keybaord shortcuts should be next to Thunderbird help.

Okay Cool.

The screen shots are Mac, so I assume that "About Thunderbird" has not been removed for the other OS.

Yeah, it is there.

Reporter

Comment 31

Last month
Comment on attachment 9065365 [details] [diff] [review]
Bug-1134760_thunderbird-help-menu-revamp.patch

Review of attachment 9065365 [details] [diff] [review]:
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Please make the help item (which is not on mac) read Thunderbird Help (like Firefox). Using brandShortName of course

::: mail/base/content/helpMenu.inc.xul
@@ +26,5 @@
> +          <menuitem id="donationsPage"
> +                    label="&helpDonationsPage.label;"
> +                    accesskey="&helpDonationsPage.accesskey;"
> +                    oncommand="openLinkText(event, 'donationURL');"/>
> +          <menuitem id="whatsNew" hidden="true"

please remove

@@ +31,3 @@
>                      label="&whatsNewCmd.label;" accesskey="&whatsNewCmd.accesskey;"
>                      oncommand="openWhatsNew();"/>
> +          <menuitem id="releaseNotes" hidden="true"

please remove

::: mail/base/content/utilityOverlay.js
@@ +193,5 @@
> +      break;
> +    case "keyboardShortcutsURL":
> +      openUILink("https://support.mozilla.org/kb/keyboard-shortcuts/", event);
> +      break;
> +    case "donationURL":

nit: donateURL would be nicer

::: mail/locales/en-US/chrome/messenger/baseMenuOverlay.dtd
@@ +32,5 @@
> +
> +<!ENTITY helpDonationsPage.label "Make a Donation">
> +<!ENTITY helpDonationsPage.accesskey "M">
> +
> +<!ENTITY helpThunderbirdPage.label "Thunderbird Website">

needs to be &brandShortName; Website.

But perhaps it would be better with
The &brandShortName; Website
Attachment #9065365 - Flags: review?(mkmelin+mozilla)
Reporter

Comment 32

Last month

(In reply to Wayne Mery (:wsmwk) from comment #29)

keybaord shortcuts should be next to Thunderbird help.

Agreed that would make sense.

Developer may be a stretch. But our UX person has requested blog.

The thunderbird website is already featuring the blog. I don't want to have duplication, because if the menu is too long nobody is going to read it.

And so again I make the case for more direct visibility. We want to
educate users, and we want more participation, then these things must be
in front of our users eyes, which means in the product. Having it on
the website is great, sure, it's available. But it's not in the product,
so it's simply not visible to our users.

But we have the link to the website now.

It seems part of what's driving your opinion is a fascination with
minimizing the size of menu

Too long and people won't read through it. I think adding the donate menu is important, and if we link to many other pages on the site directly that will not be noticed enough. Also, the pages are not localized so not linkable to end users.

Assignee

Comment 33

Last month
Attachment #9064429 - Attachment is obsolete: true
Attachment #9065365 - Attachment is obsolete: true
Attachment #9065366 - Attachment is obsolete: true
Attachment #9065467 - Flags: review?(mkmelin+mozilla)

But we have the link to the "website"

I'll work with others in the next day to get a better solution

Reporter

Comment 36

Last month

I guess the label could be "Get Involved" too. There's no saying in what anyone would want to be involved in so sending them to the thunderbird main page should be fine.

Reporter

Comment 37

Last month
Comment on attachment 9065467 [details] [diff] [review]
Bug-1134760_thunderbird-help-menu-revamp.patch

Review of attachment 9065467 [details] [diff] [review]:
-----------------------------------------------------------------

::: common/src/viewSource.xul
@@ -287,5 @@
>          <menupopup id="menu_HelpPopup">
>            <menuitem id="menu_openHelp"
> -#ifdef XP_MACOSX
> -                    label="&openHelpMac2.label;"
> -#else

there's a reason for having the label differently on mac, so don't change that (or what does firefox do here: full or short brand name?)

::: mail/locales/en-US/chrome/messenger/baseMenuOverlay.dtd
@@ +13,4 @@
>  <!ENTITY helpTroubleshootingInfo.accesskey "T">
>  <!ENTITY helpSafeMode.label     "Restart with Add-ons Disabled…">
>  <!ENTITY helpSafeMode.accesskey "R">
> +<!ENTITY openHelp.label "&brandShortName; Help">

when you change the value you need to change the l10n key so that localizers can pick up.
I.e. change openHelp.label to be productHelp.label

@@ +19,4 @@
>  <!ENTITY openHelpMac2.commandkey   "?">
>  <!ENTITY openHelpMac2.modifiers    "accel">
>  
> +<!ENTITY helpFeedbackPage.label "Submit Feedback">

I realized Firefox does have this right, so add the …

@@ +30,5 @@
> +
> +<!ENTITY helpThunderbirdPage.label "&brandShortName; Website">
> +<!ENTITY helpThunderbirdPage.accesskey "T">
> +
> +<!ENTITY aboutMenuCmd2.label "About &brandShortName;">

this too was changed but key not updated
Attachment #9065467 - Flags: review?(mkmelin+mozilla)
Assignee

Comment 38

Last month
Attachment #9065467 - Attachment is obsolete: true
Attachment #9065863 - Flags: review?(mkmelin+mozilla)
Reporter

Comment 39

Last month
Comment on attachment 9065863 [details] [diff] [review]
Bug-1134760_thunderbird-help-menu-revamp.patch

Review of attachment 9065863 [details] [diff] [review]:
-----------------------------------------------------------------

::: mail/locales/en-US/chrome/messenger/baseMenuOverlay.dtd
@@ +16,5 @@
> +<!ENTITY productHelp.label "&brandShortName; Help">
> +<!ENTITY productHelp.accesskey "H">
> +<!ENTITY productHelp.commandkey "VK_F1">
> +<!ENTITY productHelpMac.commandkey   "?">
> +<!ENTITY productHelpMac.modifiers    "accel">

what's the spaces about?

@@ +18,5 @@
> +<!ENTITY productHelp.commandkey "VK_F1">
> +<!ENTITY productHelpMac.commandkey   "?">
> +<!ENTITY productHelpMac.modifiers    "accel">
> +
> +<!ENTITY helpFeedbackPage.label "Submit Feedback...">

should be ellipsis (…) not three dots

Comment 40

Last month

I've thought a lot about this and I think that "Developer Documentation" and "Get Involved" are reasonable inclusions in their own section.

We can see what the reaction is to that in the Beta and adjust accordingly.

Reporter

Comment 41

Last month

but Developer Doc: Seamonkey used to have things like this in the menus but (I think?) even they stopped since the menu item is only relevant to 0.001% of the users (if we're very lucky!)

But sure, Get Involved is a different animal and could be useful. Let's include that one instead of the link to the main site, which is arguably less relevant to an existing user. Should link to https://www.thunderbird.net/get-involved/

That page seems to miss context atm, it should tell people right at the top we're an open source project, you can bla bla bla... At the moment if you get there without context you're really lost as to where you were taken. Ryan?

Flags: needinfo?(ryan)
Assignee

Comment 42

Last month
Attachment #9065863 - Attachment is obsolete: true
Attachment #9065863 - Flags: review?(mkmelin+mozilla)
Attachment #9065916 - Flags: review?(mkmelin+mozilla)

Thank you for considering Get Involved. Yes, we can definitely improve the Get Involved page in the coming weeks.

In general we should want to expose more of the product and the project to user, particularly to users not inclined to dig on their own, but might if hints in the product invite them to dig. Words that are inviting to users of all skill levels can generate interest.

"Features" had been suggested because it fits the goals above, and because most products have some form of features tour. Firefox has it as "Firefox Tour". Your starting proposal removed two help menu items but added back only one item, so I still think a features tour would be a good addition to the menu.

Related to those removals, I have serious reservations about removing both. I think we need to keep at least one. Firefox removed them because they decided they want to emphasize the update process. That's fine for them, their changes tend to be incremental and less disruptive, plus most of their users are not on ESR. This isn't true of us.

If we don't have a menu item how will we we communicate important release information to users when we do major ESR releases? https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/new-thunderbird-60 is a good example what we needed to communicate for v60. Without that page we would have had more user frustration and many more support requests - both of which we want to avoid.

Bear in mind our help menu is very small - 5 of our 7 other menus are twice the size of Help as seen in this collection of screen shots.

Flags: needinfo?(mkmelin+mozilla)

Comment 44

Last month

(In reply to Wayne Mery (:wsmwk) from comment #43)

+1 for all of Wayne's points.

Created attachment 9065921 [details]

  • Thunderbird Features (until we have a proper tour): Love it! Note: Features page needs updating: https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/features/
  • Get Involved: Nice. In your proposal, is this covered by "Thunderbird Community"?

Related to those removals, I have serious reservations about removing both. I think we need to keep at least one.

+1. I agree with Wayne to keep at least "What's New" (linked to the major version support page):

  • What's new: In the current order of things, the "New in Thunderbird 60" major version support page [1] seems more useful than "Release Notes" for (Sub-)Version 60.6.1 [2]. I believe for most users, the under-the-hood fixes of subversions (e.g. the latest security fixes) are not relevant at all. "Release Notes" for the latest subversion are sufficiently linked in "About Thunderbird" dialog. We should also try to better integrate/link these similar documents with each other, and consider reversing the logic: Currently, Release notes point to the subversion which isn't very interesting. Maybe they should always point to the major version [3] instead but have links to the latest subversion and the latest version. Also, the tabular style Release Notes [3] should definitely link to the major version support page [1], and maybe we'll have more creative ideas how to integrate the two better.

[1] https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/new-thunderbird-60
[2] https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/60.6.1/releasenotes/
[3] https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/60.0/releasenotes/

Bear in mind our help menu is very small.

Indeed. I concur with Waynes notion that this is a rare spot where we can entice users to dig into something which they haven't seen yet. A general "Thunderbird Website" link may be less likely to achieve that.

  • Thunderbird Website: I suggest that we linkify the word "Thunderbird" in the "About Thunderbird" dialog to point to the TB Website.
Reporter

Comment 45

Last month

(In reply to Wayne Mery (:wsmwk) from comment #43)

"Features" had been suggested because it fits the goals above, and because
most products have some form of features tour. Firefox has it as "Firefox
Tour". Your starting proposal removed two help menu items but added back
only one item, so I still think a features tour would be a good addition to
the menu.

Ok, maybe a Thunderbird Tour item would be nice.

Related to those removals, I have serious reservations about removing both.
I think we need to keep at least one. Firefox removed them because they
decided they want to emphasize the update process. That's fine for them,
their changes tend to be incremental and less disruptive, plus most of their
users are not on ESR. This isn't true of us.

I think the about page version could link to the release notes.
Not buying the argument that normal users would need to read these pages. I doubt they do.

If we don't have a menu item how will we we communicate important release
information to users when we do major ESR releases?

I'd like to open a page in the browser detailing saying we updated and here's the beef.

Flags: needinfo?(mkmelin+mozilla)

Comment 46

Last month

(In reply to Magnus Melin [:mkmelin] from comment #45)

Ok, maybe a Thunderbird Tour item would be nice.

+1

I think the about page version could link to the release notes.

There's a release notes link already in the dialog, should remain explicit imo.

Not buying the argument that normal users would need to read these pages. I doubt they do.

Please read my comment 44. We have many different versions of What's new/ Release notes/ major/minor version.
For any given version:

  • release notes major release (that's interesting and informative)
  • release notes minor release (that's stuff like security updates, typically not interesting)
  • "New in TB XX major release" (that's very interesting and valuable as a support page, also to describe known issues)
    We need to integrate these better and make them more normal-user-centered. Probably emphasize the major release more.

If we don't have a menu item how will we we communicate important release
information to users when we do major ESR releases?

I'd like to open a page in the browser detailing saying we updated and here's the beef.

We already do that in TB browser, isn't it? But that's a once-only which I may not read after waiting for TB to update, and easy to close the tab, thereafter no longer easily accessible. When I start to see an issue (like broken addons), the page may no longer be available.

Comment 47

Last month

Based on Magnus comment 25 and Wayne's comment 43, I suggest this with minor changes:



  • Troubleshooting information
  • Restart with Addons disabled

  • About Thunderbird

I've added one separator which emphasizes the donation link and makes for these clear sections:

  1. Help (TB helps user)
  2. Involvement (user helps TB)
  3. Troubleshooting
  4. About

Feedback welcome.

Flags: needinfo?(vseerror)
Flags: needinfo?(mkmelin+mozilla)

(In reply to Magnus Melin [:mkmelin] from comment #45)

...
I'd like to open a page in the browser detailing saying we updated and here's the beef.

Yes, that would be preferable. Not the same, but we had a migration funnel for version 3.0.

(In reply to Wayne Mery (:wsmwk) from comment #43)

...
Related to those removals, I have serious reservations about removing both. I think we need to keep at least one. Firefox removed them because they decided they want to DEemphasize the update process. That's fine for them, their changes tend to be incremental and less disruptive, plus most of their users are not on ESR. This isn't true of us.

I mistyped above - Firefox decided they want to NOT call attention to release.

I'd like to open a page in the browser detailing saying we updated and here's the beef.

Filed Bug 1552725 - On updates, load What's New in a tab. Could be done also for release notes

Flags: needinfo?(vseerror)
Reporter

Comment 50

Last month

Made a few changes to better align the keys with Firefox (makes it easier for future comparisons), and added the Thunderbird Tour item.

Off to try: https://treeherder.mozilla.org/#/jobs?repo=try-comm-central&revision=26e9452f285950577a5cf3f49bfd950ba72a0cbf

Attachment #9065916 - Attachment is obsolete: true
Attachment #9065916 - Flags: review?(mkmelin+mozilla)
Flags: needinfo?(mkmelin+mozilla)
Attachment #9065964 - Flags: review+
Reporter

Comment 51

Last month

(In reply to Thomas D. from comment #46)

I think the about page version could link to the release notes.

There's a release notes link already in the dialog, should remain explicit
imo.

There is not. Maybe you want to take on a bug to link the version number?

Please read my comment 44. We have many different versions of What's new/

We only support ~one version though. And if it's not something "new" it's not new.>

I'd like to open a page in the browser detailing saying we updated and here's the beef.

We already do that in TB browser, isn't it?

Nope. But we used to do it (inside Thunderbird) many years ago.

Reporter

Updated

Last month
Attachment #9065964 - Attachment is obsolete: true
Reporter

Comment 54

Last month

Fixed the test failures. Will land this shortly.

Attachment #9066002 - Attachment is obsolete: true

Comment 55

Last month

Pushed by mkmelin@iki.fi:
https://hg.mozilla.org/comm-central/rev/e31269a0705e
thunderbird help menu revamp. r=mkmelin

Status: ASSIGNED → RESOLVED
Closed: Last month
Resolution: --- → FIXED

Comment 56

Last month

(In reply to Magnus Melin [:mkmelin] from comment #54)

Fixed the test failures. Will land this shortly.

How about you let me coordinate landings.

Comment 57

29 days ago

... and you didn't set the Target Milestone :-(

Target Milestone: --- → Thunderbird 68.0

Comment 58

28 days ago

(In reply to Wayne Mery (:wsmwk) from comment #43)

Thank you for considering Get Involved. Yes, we can definitely improve the Get Involved page in the coming weeks.

I'll put giving the "Get Involved" page another overhaul on my task list.

Flags: needinfo?(ryan)
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