Closed Bug 174651 (hotmail-attach) Opened 23 years ago Closed 23 years ago

hotmail does not display an option to attach files to messages !!!

Categories

(Tech Evangelism Graveyard :: English US, defect)

Product:
Tech Evangelism Graveyard
Component:
English US
Type:
defect
Priority:
Not set
Severity:
major

Tracking

(Not tracked)

Status:
RESOLVED FIXED

People

(Reporter: anitapeterson, Assigned: susiew)

References

(
URL
)

Details

Attachments

(3 files)

HTML fragment , under Mozilla 1.2 beta
238 bytes, text/plain
Details
HTML fragment , under MSIE 6.0
626 bytes, text/plain
Details
HTML fragment , under Netscape Communicator 4.79
567 bytes, text/plain
Details
Hi there, Lovely browser! But... I entered my hotmail account and composed a letter to a friend. Then I tried to send a Word document as an attachment, but guess what: I could not find the "Attachment" button ?!! There is absolutely nothing between the line for "Subject" and "Tools"... Damn Micro$oft...
I am also experiencing this, all javascript is on, just in case that's part of the problem. I'm on Mozilla 1.0, buildid 2002053012, Windows XP. This appears to be a result of a recent change at hotmail; until recently, there was no problem attaching using Mozilla in hotmail. I've confirmed that it still works properly in MSIE 6.0.
Further experimentation shows that it continues to work correctly in Communicator 4.79, as well as MSIE.
I just installed Mozilla 1.2b, build 2002101612, and can confirm that the problem exists in that release (at least under Windows XP).
Just a repeat of additional comments in bug 174776: Definitely the same bug. (At least I'm not losing my mind, or at least not because of this.) Strange that it should happen in Mozilla (all versions) but not in Netscape, since the latter is based on the former. Hotmail tech support, as usual, has nothing relevant to offer in resolving the issue.
From the comments I've seen, the bug doesn't occur in Netscape 4.79, but that version isn't based on Mozilla. I haven't tried Netscape 6 or 7 (at least 7 is based on Mozilla; I dunno about 6) to see if it works in those (I don't have either installed), and haven't seen any comments from anyone who has. My expectation is that at least 7 won't work. I have tried it in Phoenix 0.3 (Lucia), which *is* based on Mozilla, and that fails, too; no surprise. I wonder how it looks in Opera? Terry
carroll@tjc.com: See my comments in bug 174776: It doesn't occur in Netscape 7.0.
It looks like hotmail is generating different HTML for the supported browsers and Mozilla. The HTML defines a table with the header information: To:, Cc:, etc. When I save the HTML from Netscape 4.79, right after the entry for the Subject (look for an input tag with type="text" id="subject" name="subject"), I see another entry: input type="submit" name="Attach.x" value="Add/Edit Attachments" return CT(); class="sbttn" tabindex="5" This entry is not present in the HTML saved from Mozilla. In IE, it's there but different: input type="submit" name="Attach.x" value="Add/Edit Attachments" onclick="return onSubmitCompose(1,this)"; class="sbttn" tabindex="5" I suspect that hotmail is checking the browser type, and generating different HTML for different browsers. For IE, it generates a call to onSubmitCompose(), a Javascript routine that presumably includes some IE-only functions; for Netscape, it uses something different. I'm guessing that it probably doesn't recognize Mozilla at all, so that nothing gets put in there at all. In other words, the server is probably doing something like this: if (browser == MSIE) { [generate MSIE-specific code] } if (browser == Netscape) { [generate standard code] } But if you're using a browser that's not on the list, you just don't get *any* code. If this is actually the cause, this would explain why it would work in Netscape 7 but not in Mozilla. Can someone at Mozilla.org confirm this (maybe running a test case where the only difference is faking out the browser ID)? If it's confirmed, is there any way for Mozilla.org to open a problem report with Microsoft?
This file shows the HTML for the "Compose" screen from Hotmail under Mozilla 1.2 beta. There is no entry for the Add/Edit Attachments function.
This file shows the HTML for the "Compose" screen from Hotmail under MSIE 6.0. There is what appears to be an MSIE-specific entry for the Add/Edit Attachments function.
This file shows the HTML for the "Compose" screen from Hotmail under Netscape 4.79. There is what appears to be a non-browser-specific entry for the Add/Edit Attachments function.
The attachment button in on the Hotmail compose screen appears when Mozilla's UA string is spoofed to be almost anything BUT Mozilla: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011022 Netscape6/6.2 Mozilla/4.78 [en] (Win98; U) Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0rc2) Gecko/20020513 Netscape/7.0b1 all work, as do Opera and of course IE. If this doesn't need evangelism, I don't know what does.
Status: UNCONFIRMED → NEW
Component: Browser-General → The Americas
Ever confirmed: true
Product: Browser → Tech Evangelism
Version: other → unspecified
Component: The Americas → US General
*** Bug 174893 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
*** Bug 174776 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Workaround. Add the following line to the applicable user.js file: user_pref("general.useragent.override", "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0"); This tells Mozilla to identify itself as Netscape 7.0. Hotmail will then generate working HTML. Presumably, any of the user agents listed in comment 11 will work, too. Of course, this could break other sites.
Terry Carroll : Your suggestion (#14 below) is all well and good, but for those of us less familiar with the intricacies of meddling with the guts of applications: (1) What would be the appropriate insertion for Mac OS (vs Windows)? (2) Where would one find the place to insert it – ie, in the "applicable user.js file"? (3) How would one insert it? (4) What are the risks (such as your comment that "this could break other sites" – please elaborate)? (5) Why wouldn't it be better for Hotmail aka Uncle Bill to run the fix/patch from that end (since all other versions of Hotmail seem to be OK in this regard)? So many questions, so few answers.
John -- 1) Not sure; one Netscape user agent is "Mozilla/4.78 (Macintosh; U; PPC)"; That might work. 2) I'm not sure where it is for Mac. There's a page at http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20020113144936954 that might help. I'm sure there's something more official somewhere on mozilla.org, too; after a quick search, the closest I can find is http://www.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla1.2a/ 3) Just use a text editor. 4) Well, there might be some sites that don't support Netscape 7 yet (just as hotmail doen't work with Mozilla); so saying you're Netscape 7 could have problems on those sites. 5) Absolutely, this seems to be a Hotmail bug that Microsoft should fix. But I have no control over that, and I still want full use of hotmail. This is just a workaround. I'm not on the Mozilla team, and I don't offer this as a permanent solution. I just wanted to get up and running again, and thought I'd share my little workaround with anyone else who finds this bug. By the way, I've since found a better work-around. Mozilla offers a thing called "uabar," which adds the option to change your user agent to the menu bar. It takes up screen space, but at least you can easily switch from masquarading as a Netscape browser back to Mozilla. I'm now using that instead of the user.js circumvention. uabar is at <http://uabar.mozdev.org/source.html>. 5)
Thanks, I appreciate the input. But all that is far too complicated for me as a simple user of the browser. I know very little (read: nothing) about the intricacies of programming in anything newer than Fortran (of 40 years ago), and I've forgotten about 99% of that. My knowledge of HTML permits me to recognize it as such (eg, those listed in Attachments above), but that's about as far as it goes. And text editors scare me a lot – mostly because of my ignorance and my disinclination to expend the time and effort to learn how they work, especially when I otherwise have no use for them. (I don't even know all the ins and outs of the word processor which I've been using since 1995!) All said, I am loath to make any changes (even if I knew how) to a mostly functional application. I guess that I'll have to await Hotmail's attention to the problem. C'est la vie.
Since there's no evidence of evangelism being performed by mozilla.org on this issue (yet), I strongly suggest that anyone experiencing this problem (i.e. anyone using Hotmail under Mozilla) write to Hotmail support at http://lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/dasp/ua_info.asp?pg=ar_eform and advise them of this problem. Following is a template for the motivationally challenged :-) Every time since about October 15 that I have logged into my Hotmail account and have composed a message, the "Add/Edit attachments" button has not appeared on the Compose page. I am using Mozilla 1.1, though this problem occurs on all versions of Mozilla that I have tried. Mozilla has the ability to masquerade as other browsers - when Mozilla "spoofs" its user agent string to be that of other browers such as IE4, IE5, IE6, Netscape 7.0, Netscape 6.0, Netscape 4.7, or Opera, the "Add/Edit attachments" button will appear as expected. It seems as though the Hotmail web servers are either incorrectly detecting Mozilla browsers, or are correctly detecting Mozilla browsers and not sending the HTML which comprises the "Add/Edit attachments" button. It seems like a relatively minor change to the Hotmail service would solve this problem, as other members of the Mozilla family of browsers, specifially Netscape 6 and 7, are not affected by this problem. Thank you for your time and help.
Actually http://www.hotmail.com/cgi-bin/support seems to be the preferred URL for support, sorry...
rcummins@burlco.lib.nj.us: Nicely phrased and temperate note for onward transmission to Hotmail tech support. However, unless one lucks into a tech person who actually cares what he/she does at Hotmail – few and far between, with usual responses to concerns being 'canned' and irrelevant to the issue (eg, "try clearing your cache", followed by instructions on how to do so for a selection of browsers) – it's unlikely to reach the appropriate programmers. But hope springs eternal .... [I've had a request in with Hotmail since 10-16.] A more direct address: support_x@css.one.microsoft.com
*** Bug 175601 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Here is today's response from Hotmail tech support which clearly illustrates my comments above (#20), re the level of responsiveness and technical assistance which MSN Hotmail is apparently willing to provide its users. "Thank you for writing to MSN Hotmail. "This is Bryan and we have evaluated the problem you described and we advise you to please update your browser to its latest version. Using updated version of browser can do away with the bugs your current browser version has. "We suggest that you use Internet Explorer. IE is more compatible with Hotmail because it can support all the features of Hotmail. "If you have other questions regarding MSN Hotmail, please do not hesitate from writing us again. Thanks again for your patience and continued support."
Not to sound ominous or anything, but I just had this interesting experience: I have all my bugzilla email go to an email account. I am CC'ed on dozens of bugs and get a few emails a day from Bugzilla. I just noticed that email from this bug (and no other bug) is being directed into the hotmail Junk Mail folder! I wouldn't have noticed except I was cleaning out my Junk Mail and noticed the from: address. (P.S. - Sorry for the SPAM)
Regarding my previous comment, it's a hotmail account. :-(
URL: http://www.hotmail.com
OS: Windows 2000 → All
Hardware: PC → All
*** Bug 175876 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
hey guys, Asa is great, but probably isn't going to be much help on Evang bugs... ==> Evang for real. no crash, no hang, not critical.
Assignee: asa → susiew
Severity: critical → major
QA Contact: asa → zach
And today's response from MSN Hotmail following a "gentle nudge" – once again - to fix the problem: We received your message concerning the problem you are experiencing using MSN Hotmail. Our Technical Support Staff is aware of this situation and is currently working on a fix to the problem. Unfortunately, we can not give you a specific time on when a solution may be available. Hotmail is continually looking for ways to improve our service. We strive to make positive changes to our product, based on feedback we receive from our customers. We apologize for any inconveniences this may have caused you and appreciate your continued patience. Remember that MSN Hotmail also has comprehensive online help available--just click "Help" in the upper right corner. MSN Hotmail Customer Support
*** Bug 176106 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Just checked this morning. Got a new e-mail from hotmail support: Thank you for writing MSN Hotmail. This is Joyzel and I understand how important it is for you to attach mail in your messages. The issue you’re describing is typically caused by an incompatibility between the browser on your computer and the code used on our site. For the most secure Internet usage, use the most current version of your preferred browser software. We recommend: - Microsoft Internet Explorer, which you can download free at: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/downloads/default.htm I hope I was able to assist you. If the problem persists, please feel free to write us back. Remember that MSN Hotmail also has comprehensive online help available--just click "Help" in the upper right corner. Sincerely, Joyzel C MSN Hotmail Customer Support --- Also, the attachment button magically appeared this morning [10/24] so I'm guessing that we made enough noise to get thier attention (this time...) I recommend that this bug gets changed to Fixed (until MS changes its mind)
I'm still not seeing the attach file button. Build 2002102308 at 3:35 pm EST.
Nor am I (seeing the "Add/Edit Attachments" button). I suspect that we'll all be dust before Uncle Bill and his merry elves get around to adding the line or two of code which would fix the bug.
Comment #30 - you would still see this problem even if you were using build 2004051308 - this is a browser detection problem at Hotmail. The Hotmail elves might eventually get clueful if they keep seeing the same problem being reported enough times by enough people. Maybe we could ask susiew@netscape.com for a status update (i.e. any luck)?
I have the same problem when using "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:1.2b) Gecko/20021022 Phoenix/0.3".
In Comment #14, Terry Carroll writes: >Workaround. Add the following line to the applicable user.js file: Is it really the user.js file? My system (win 98, moz 1.2beta) has no such file, but there is a prefs.js file which I edited in the manner suggested and got attachments to work in hotmail.
Re comment 34: user.js is the file that's used for a user to specify settings. It's designed to be created and altered by the user. Once Mozilla starts, it merges those entries into prefs.js, the file you altered. More at <http://www.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla1.2b/>. Still, as I said in comment 16, I like the uabar solution better; easier to back out.
*** Bug 176808 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Terry Carroll: Just what is a "uabar"?! I checked the URL which you gave, but no information as to what it is or does or how/where one installs it, etc etc. [Of course, if I have to ask the question(s), it's relatively clear that I probably shouldn't be messing around with it. And when the info talks about source code, I'm way out of my depth.] _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ While I'm at it: Does anybody know where I can find the Mozilla (red dinosaur head) icon, so that I can replace the stylized "M" icon in my toolbar? (It appears as the mozilla.org web site icon in the URL/location window in the browser.) I've searched everywhere and cannot come up with one. The BeBits site claims to have such, but the icon package for all platforms downloads as empty.
*** Bug 176889 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
I'm still not able to see the "Add/Edit Attachments" button, so I don't think this bug is fixed. Also, when I called Hotmail support today, I was told that a related problem is that Mozilla will not allow use of the RTF editor (to change font size and color, among other things), as Explorer will. The person I spoke with at Hotmail told me that the problem is Mozilla's, not theirs, and that until Mozilla is fixed, I should use Explorer.
maybe it's "dummy me" but, i don't see how RTF editors are related to a browse button to attach files?! Is this another MS improvement in their core component of the system. I think it's simple : the page uses invalid (MS invented) HTML, and therefore is not supported by Mozilla and probably other browsers. Blaming Mozilla is the easy way out for apparently not desiring browser intercompatiblity.
This is not a "invalid (MS invented) HTML" problem, this is a "no HTML" problem. If the Hotmail server detects a Mozilla browser, it doesn't send the HTML for the "Add/Edit Attachment" button, whereas it does send the HTML for the button if it detects almost any other browser. If you're so inclined, you can view the HTML source to verify this.
The following is my communications with the hotmail staff regarding the missing "attach file" button: --- Original Message --- Thank you for taking the time to bring this to our attention, I'll pass it along to the appropriate group. MSN Hotmail Customer Support --- Original Message --- From: ksheka@hotmail.com To: support_x@css.one.microsoft.com Sent: Thu Oct 24 04:45:44 PDT 2002 Subject: RE: RE: CST89098053ID - Broken / Mail / Attch Thank you for your prompt reply, Ana. I have already contacted Mozilla. The problem has been localized to the hotmail servers, which serve out different content to browsers depending on what they identify themselves as in their user agent strings. Please take a look at the following link: http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=174651 It's the bug report of what is going on on the hotmail servers. I hope you can shed some light on why hotmail is looking at the UI string and serving different HTML for Netscape7 versus Mozilla. Thanks again, Karthik Sheka >From: "MSN Hotmail Support" <support_x@css.one.microsoft.com> >To: <ksheka@hotmail.com> >Subject: RE: RE: CST89098053ID - Broken / Mail / Attch >Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 22:27:47 -0700 > >Hello Karthik, > > Thank you for writing us back. > >This is Ana and this is in response to your inquiry regarding your problem >in decoding HTML. > I understand how important this is for you. I suggest that you try to >contact the technical support of Mozilla for further assistance on how to >solve your problem. > If you have other questions, feel free to e-mail us again. > > >Sincerely, > >Ana S.G. >MSN Hotmail Customer Support > >--- Original Message --- >From: ksheka@hotmail.com >To: support_x@css.one.microsoft.com >Sent: Wed Oct 23 04:55:58 PDT 2002 >Subject: RE: CST89098053ID - Broken / Mail / Attch > >Hello, Elaine. > As instructed, I cleared out my memory cache and disk cache, and the >problem is still there. As I mentioned earlier, my browser version is only >a couple days old, so upgrading shouldn't fix anything. :-) Spoofing >another >browser (Internet Explorer or Netscape 7) still works, so it looks like >different content is created for Mozilla, so I looked at the source code of >the pages sent: > It looks like hotmail is generating different HTML for the supported >browsers and Mozilla. The HTML defines a table with the header >information: >To:, Cc:, etc. > When I save the HTML from Netscape 4.79, right after the entry for the >Subject look for an input tag with type="text" id="subject" >name="subject"), >I see another entry: > input type="submit" name="Attach.x" value="Add/Edit Attachments" > return CT(); class="sbttn" tabindex="5" > This entry is not present in the HTML saved from Mozilla. > In IE, it's there but different: > input type="submit" name="Attach.x" value="Add/Edit Attachments" > onclick="return onSubmitCompose(1,this)"; class="sbttn" tabindex="5" > I suspect that hotmail is checking the browser type, and generating >different HTML for different browsers. For IE, it generates a call to >onSubmitCompose(), a Javascript routine that presumably includes some >IE-only functions; for Netscape, it uses something different. I'm guessing >that it probably doesn't recognize Mozilla at all, so that nothing gets put >in there at all. > Thanks for any help you can provide. > Karthik Sheka >ksheka@hotmail.com > >From: "MSN Hotmail Support" <support_x@css.one.microsoft.com> > >To: <ksheka@hotmail.com> > >Subject: RE: CST89098053ID - Broken / Mail / Attch > >Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 05:56:06 -0700 > > > >***Please do not reply back to this message*** > > > >How did we do? What did we do well? Is there anything we need to improve > >on? > > > >The MSN Hotmail Customer Support Team would like to hear how satisfied > >you were with your most recent support experience. We'd appreciate you > >taking a few minutes to click on our Customer Service Survey link below > >and let us know what we did well and where we can improve. Your feedback > >will help us provide outstanding customer service and improve your > >Hotmail experience! > > > >Customer Service Survey: Click here > ><http://msn.surveyhost.com/hotmail-S/hotmail-S06.asp?P1=RA0&Q21=89098053 > > > to give us your feedback. > > > >--- Original Message --- > >From: ksheka@hotmail.com > >To: support_x@css.one.microsoft.com > >Sent: Oct 20 2002 6:30PM > >Subject: Broken / Mail / Attch > > > >Hello ksheka, > > > >Thank you for writing to MSN Hotmail. > > > >This is Elaine and I am writing in response to your account problem. I > >have checked your account and it is functioning properly. However, the > >problem could be because of your browser's cache. Browsers store > >temporary files in your computer's memory and swap files on your hard > >disk drive. Soon these areas become cluttered and reduce performance. > >Clearing your computer's cache often avoids this. > > > > > >For instructions on clearing your cache, send a blank e-mail message to: > > > >ycache@hotmail.com > > > >If you'd like more information on your browser's cache, check the Help > >files. > > > > > >If the problem persists, kindly reply to this e-mail. > > > >Remember that MSN Hotmail also has comprehensive online help > >available--just click "Help" in the upper right corner. > > > >Sincerely, > >Elaine V. > >MSN Hotmail Customer Support > > > > > >--- Original Message --- > >From: ksheka@hotmail.com > >To: support_x@css.one.microsoft.com > >Sent: Sun Oct 20 18:30:10 PDT 2002 > >Subject: Broken / Mail / Attch > > > > > >Date: Sun Oct 20 2002 21:31:36 GMT-0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) > > > >Operating System: windows XP > >Connection Type: t1+/lan > >Browser Type: other > > > >For the last week, every time that I have logged into my Hotmail account > >and have composed a message, the "Add/Edit attachments" button has not > >appeared on the Compose page. > > > >I am using Mozilla 1.2b (The version I have is less than 1 day old), > >though this problem occurs on all versions of Mozilla that I have tried. > >Mozilla has the ability to masquerade as other browsers - when Mozilla > >"spoofs" its user agent string to be that of other browers such as IE4, > >IE5, IE6, Netscape 7.0, Netscape 6.0, Netscape 4.7, or Opera, the > >"Add/Edit attachments" button will appear as expected. It seems as > >though the Hotmail web servers are either incorrectly detecting Mozilla > >browsers, or are correctly detecting Mozilla browsers and not sending > >the HTML which comprises the "Add/Edit attachments" button. It seems > >like a relatively minor change to the Hotmail service would solve this > >problem, as other members of the Mozilla family of browsers, specifially > >Netscape 6 and 7, are not affected by this problem. > > > >Thank you for your time and help. > > > >(Please don't tell me that I need to update my browser, since the > >version I have is less than one day old, and it works fine if I make it > >spoof Netscape7 in the User Agent string. :-) > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get a speedy connection with MSN Broadband. Join now! >http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp _________________________________________________________________ Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp
*** Bug 177220 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
*** Bug 178029 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
*** Bug 178069 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Alias: hotmail-attach
Verified they are only detecting Netscape and blocking other Gecko browsers...I thought this had been fixed with the last Hotmail rev :( ( So if you are changing your ua string to use attachments, please use a Netscape string instead of IE. Please complain to their customer support too if you haven't already. I will try to get confirmation if they will detect "Gecko" instead of Netscape.
Status: NEW → ASSIGNED
*** Bug 179023 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
contacted.
Target Milestone: --- → Nov
Bug 179314 ... not a straight duplicate of this bug, more like a superset. Quick addresses as well as html editing tools are also missing (present in IE). Changing the UA string fixes the quick address part but NOT the html editing. So perhaps this second part is truly a mozilla problem and not a hotmail problem.
*** Bug 180686 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
I am using Mozilla 1.3a and the Hotmail bug occurs too.
*** Bug 180952 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
*** Bug 181038 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was just on hotmail this morning and it seem that I can attach files now. Looks like Microsoft corrected the problem. I'm using Mozilla 1.2B.
Yes, you're right. However, there are still no quick addresses (Bug 179314), and no rich text editing (apparently depends on Bug 97284). To get quick addresses as well, you need to spoof NS 6.2 Linux. Can whoever contacted Hotmail about the attachments also tell them to fix the quick addresses bit? Or rather to send Mozilla the same html as for IE? Because they still aren't doing that. I know this is off-topic for this bug, but a lot more people are watching it ...
Marking this bug FIXED. Please make other comments in the appropriate bugs. As you can see in the rich text editing bug, this is not an issue with any webmail vendor but an issue of Mozilla supporting that feature.
Status: ASSIGNED → RESOLVED
Closed: 23 years ago
Resolution: --- → FIXED
Well, MSN Hotmail seems to have actually fixed the bug -- the Add/Edit Attachments button now shows up (in several accounts) in Compose function. As for Quick Addresses: The Insert Address button functions even better IMHO.
Product: Tech Evangelism → Tech Evangelism Graveyard
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