458069 - Ctrl+T should open a new tab (keyboard shortcut)

Status: NEW

(Thunderbird :: Toolbars and Tabs, defect)

Description

[Bryan Clark (DevTools PM) [:clarkbw]]

Thundertab (bug 218999) is going to need to impose eminent domain on this key combo from it's current usage.  I don't like stealing key combos from other items as people have likely become accustomed to using it already; however this key combo makes the most sense.

Comment 1

[Tony Mechelynck [:tonymec]]

Hm, maybe, but (1) shouldn't this wait on the tabbed mailer rather than the opposite (IMHO it makes no sense to open a new tab on Ctrl-T if you don't have tabs); and (2) which hotkey should get new mail then?

Comment 2

[Magnus Melin [:mkmelin]]

We do have F5/F9 already for "check mail"...

But what exactly is the "new tab" going to show? For a browser it makes sense since you can enter the new address - but for us?

Comment 3

[Tony Mechelynck [:tonymec]]

(In reply to comment #2)
> We do have F5/F9 already for "check mail"...
> 
> But what exactly is the "new tab" going to show? For a browser it makes sense
> since you can enter the new address - but for us?

Well, the only kind of "empty document" I can think of in Mail&News is an empty Message-compose (window), er, tab. Then you should be able to enter To, Subject, etc.

Comment 4

[Bryan Clark (DevTools PM) [:clarkbw]]

in bug 218999 I gave a links to other pages that describe possibilities for empty tabs.  My plan was to work on some kind of a summary page that would give you a dashboard view on your mail, calendar, tasks, and possibly other things like messages you've sent that haven't received a followup.

Spicebird has had a 'Home' page which uses this kind of concept fairly well.  
http://www.spicebird.com/node/5

Some more static alternatives suggested are that we show the Thunderbird welcome page in every new tab.

We could also offer basic commands like writing a new message or basic information like TB disk usage.

The reason we need a 'new tab' button and 'ctrl-t' to open a new tab is because we have a basic interaction problem with the tabbing system.  From the "All Mail" tab you're always opening a new tab when you use the search bar (bug 452281), but from within a tab you'll be effecting the search results by changing what's in the search bar.  So to start a new search from within a tab you'd need to go back to the "All Mail" tab without a way to open a new tab.

Comment 5

[Dan Mosedale (:dmosedale, :dmose)]

This doesn't have a hard dependency on bug 477652, since we could certainly land a patch for this bug using about:blank, or one of the existing start pages, and then switch to the newly designed goodness post facto.

Comment 6

[Dan Mosedale (:dmosedale, :dmose)]

This would be great, but we've got too much scheduled for Tb3.  Removing blocking.

Comment 7

[Thomas D. (:thomas8)]

This should be blocking-thunderbird 3.1, because
- users will expect from FF and IE tabbed interface that Ctrl+T opens a new tab, and we should quickly let them use that key combo successfully (and there's really no way we could use another shortcut for that)
- users who expect Ctrl+T to geT their messages should have a chance to learn as soon as possible that as we have now landed tabs, they need to use another key combo for getting their messages (or existing F5 key combo)
- there's potentially a lot of really nice things we can do in a new tab

In Bug 527467 I propose to implement Ctrl+[Shift]+D for "Get [All] Messages", as it's easy to memorize in the sense of "Download messages".

Comment 8

[Thomas D. (:thomas8)]

(In reply to Dan's comment #5)
> This doesn't have a hard dependency on bug 477652, since we could certainly
> land a patch for this bug using about:blank, or one of the existing start
> pages, and then switch to the newly designed goodness post facto.

Yes indeed! I agree with Dan, and hasten to add that we should educate our users on the right shortcuts *now* (in the transition223 phase) rather than later. We'll get a lot more complaints if we change shortcuts lateron at some random point of time. But user can/will expect new shortcuts when installing TB3.

Comment 9

[Dan Mosedale (:dmosedale, :dmose)]

This would be great to get, so wanted+, but if this were the last bug standing, we wouldn't hold for it, so blocking-.

Comment 10

[Richard Mlynarik]

Hi, just stumbled across this "bug" and I really feel obliged to comment.

This is one of the stupidest ideas I've seen!

What you're doing is changing a very very very fundamental keystroke combination
-- one that I, for example, use perhaps 50 to 100 times a day, and have used
nearly every day for 25 or so years now -- and assigning it to a function
that accomplishes something that hardly anybody will ever need to do at any time.

Really.  Think about it!

People can barely imagine what would "live" inside a blank tab and
why one would want such a thing, and here you are proposing that the
ability to create such a thing of uncertain utility of uncertain need
with a single ketstroke should usurp a really fundamental piece of UI
with decades of precedence.

In general I am all for consistency in UI -- consistency between applications,
consistency with the host platform, etc -- but there are times when
(a) having some regard for your user base and
(b) having some sense of proportion
outweigh this.  Especially when the *only* thing is being gained is
an abstract idea of consistency but there is zero practical benefit
for USERS, which is what I suggest is the situation here.

Consider the examples of Adobe Illustrator/Photoshop, which are
(a) not consistent between them for historical (user install base respect) reasons and
(b) usurp some "standard" (in other application) keys to do non-standard things, again out of respect for their installed user base.


All in all, this just seems like a terrible idea.

All you're going to do is infuriate people ... while delivering exactly zero
benefit in exchange.   All pain, no gain.  So why do it?


(My basic lesson from 20 years of doing and managing this stuff: if a
rewrite doesn't deliver 10x the performance, don't even *think* about it.
And if you go ahead and do it anyway, you're no longer working for me.)

Comment 11

[Tony Mechelynck [:tonymec]]

In reply to comment #10:
Now that both Thunderbird and SeaMonkey have got mailer tabs, I regularly use Ctrl+T in the SeaMonkey Mailer 3-pane view to get, not an empty tab but a duplicate tab of the same view, where I can then select a different folder, newsgroup or RSS feed. Makes perfect sense to me. If I were using Shredder, of course I'd want it.

Comment 12

[Thomas D. (:thomas8)]

(In reply to comment #10)
> Hi, just stumbled across this "bug" and I really feel obliged to comment.
> This is one of the stupidest ideas I've seen! <<snip>>
> People can barely imagine what would "live" inside a blank tab and
> why one would want such a thing, and here you are proposing that the
> ability to create such a thing of uncertain utility of uncertain need
> with a single ketstroke should usurp a really fundamental piece of UI
> with decades of precedence.

I have taken care of this inappropriate, one-sided and uninformed comment in an extensive and clear private mail.

Comment 13

[Richard Mlynarik]

One needs to *earn* espect, and insulting the user base isn't the way to do that.


I tell you what: if incompetent people breaking ***my*** mail reader
will stop marking REAL BUGS, which take me REAL EFFORT TO REPORT,
as "WONTFIX" I'll stop pointing out the obvious, which is that
those involved are immature coders, disrespectful of their users,
have no software management skills, and are more interested
going off on unmotivated tangents of no user benefit than they are
in improving the user experience of a product.

I was where you are 25 years ago, with too much energy and not
enough considered focus on what matters: "STOP BREAKING THINGS" and
"LEAVE IT ALONE IF IT'S GOOD ENOUGH" are about the best things
I've learned since then.

Comment 14

[Tony Mechelynck [:tonymec]]

Richard, one needs to earn respect, and SHOUTING insults at developers is not good enough.

Comment 15

[Dan Mosedale (:dmosedale, :dmose)]

Thomas, thanks.

Richard, I understand that you feel wronged, and it's not my place to claim that your feelings are invalid.  However, over the last two weeks, I've tried to make very clear to you, multiple times, what sorts of behavior are and are not acceptable in Bugzilla, starting with bug 579372 comment 3.  The personal attacks in this bug are very much not acceptable.

As I've said before, it's important that Bugzilla be considered by developers to be an enjoyable place to work.  If I'm forced to choose between keeping your Bugzilla account open and helping Bugzilla move towards that goal, I will choose the former.  To be clear, this is your last warning.  The next time I become aware of you violating Bugzilla etiquette, I will disable your account.

Comment 16

[kavya]

status - resolved

Comment 17

[Thomas D. (:thomas8)]

kavya, this bug is reported against Thunderbird product, not Firefox.
In TB, Ctrl+T does nothing yet. So this is a feature which is not yet implemented, so it can't be worksforme.